Americans just have to face the reality... guns are here and they are NEVER going away. Even if a gunman walks through a maternity ward and blasts the nusery.. killing 1,000 newborns... we will never give up our guns. As long as there is paranoia, fear, greed, want, poverty and wusses... the market for guns is there.
it baffles me that an armed citizen saved lives the other day when a gunman opened fire in a church; net no thread about it.
it baffles me that an armed citizen saved lives the other day when a gunman opened fire in a church; net no thread about it.
she was an armed security guard. thank god for her, and may god bless her.
however, as the posted above me pointed out, it's more sad that we she even needed to be there...why should we need armed guards at a church?
i'm a supporter of the second amendment, but i think proper precautions needed to be taken in order to protect society as much as possible without taking away our rights. a proper waiting period, thorough background checks, etc. should be put into place - anyone who wants one can still have one, as guaranteed in the constitution, and chances of them going into the wrong hands are lessened.
also, i support letting different cities & towns write their own laws, as long as it doesn't ban them completely or get someone in trouble carrying their gun from town to town, etc. i'm from a small, conservative town, where guns are used for hunting and whatnot...no one has been murdered with a gun in years. i now live in pittsburgh, and see that guns are used for different reasons and this city has a 180 perspective...in other words, a city like pittsburgh should be allowed to enact stricter laws while small towns like my hometown should have looser ones.
she was an armed security guard. thank god for her, and may god bless her.
however, as the posted above me pointed out, it's more sad that we she even needed to be there...why should we need armed guards at a church?
i'm a supporter of the second amendment, but i think proper precautions needed to be taken in order to protect society as much as possible without taking away our rights. a proper waiting period, thorough background checks, etc. should be put into place - anyone who wants one can still have one, as guaranteed in the constitution, and chances of them going into the wrong hands are lessened.
also, i support letting different cities & towns write their own laws, as long as it doesn't ban them completely or get someone in trouble carrying their gun from town to town, etc. i'm from a small, conservative town, where guns are used for hunting and whatnot...no one has been murdered with a gun in years. i now live in pittsburgh, and see that guns are used for different reasons and this city has a 180 perspective...in other words, a city like pittsburgh should be allowed to enact stricter laws while small towns like my hometown should have looser ones.
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Agree with you, 100%.
I also believe in the Second Amendment right... but, it needs to have certain limits... such as, you can't buy a .50 caliber machine gun or a 105mm Howitzer because a .50 machine gun is a horrible hunting gun... as is the Howitzer.
And... that States should be able to create and support their own gun laws. Like, I don't want more fucking guns in Los Angeles... but, I don't want to take guns away from rural America... where environment and population are completely different. I don't think that gun control nuts from California should swarm to Nebraska and take guns away and I don't believe NRA gun nuts from Montana sholud come to L.A. and protest our gun laws.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Curtailing liberty from all shades of law abiding people will suddenly end all the ills of the world?
Prohibition worked really well with alcohol and drugs right?
I don't think anyone is talking about a complete gun ban as a realistic possibility so this is a stupid point. However, there need to be limits. Civilian Americans do not need high powered rifles. In any case the ~20 000 gun deaths a year in the states illustrates that many are unable/can not be trusted to use fire arms safely. How many people have to die to get the message through your thick skulls?
Here is a statistic for you. Somebody look up how many firearms there are in the US, and how many of those firearms are involved in crimes each year.
The percentage, I'm sure would be extrememly small. My point being is that the vast majority of law abiding citizens do not promote and are not victims of gun violence.
People who get shot, more often than not are shady mother fuckers dealing in shady shit. Most of the time thier guns are stolen or illegal in the first place.
Come on, this is bs. Surely you understand the equation : more guns = more deaths due to firearms. And, to please the factual police : higher firearm ownership = higher homicide rates in the us if you want more, just type "gun control" on that website.
I understand that you will not let go of your 2nd amendment but at least make it a little harder to get guns. I read somewhere that in some states you can order them on the internet... I mean, making it harder to get them will mean less people will have them which will mean less risks for accidents and other stupid stuff which ends with dead people.
I don't think anyone is talking about a complete gun ban as a realistic possibility so this is a stupid point. However, there need to be limits. Civilian Americans do not need high powered rifles. In any case the ~20 000 gun deaths a year in the states illustrates that many are unable/can not be trusted to use fire arms safely. How many people have to die to get the message through your thick skulls?
according to the FBI; there are less than 10,000 gun deaths each year. are you making up stats as you go along? we have 330 million residents plus 15 million illegal residents. you do the math.
according to the FBI; there are less than 10,000 gun deaths each year. are you making up stats as you go along? we have 330 million residents plus 15 million illegal residents. you do the math.
you are looking at the FBI's stats for gun homicides only i think.. there are more than 20,000 gun DEATHS per year... to quote the http://www.cdc.gov 1998 report
"...In 1998, 30,708 Americans were killed with firearms - in homicides, suicides and accidents. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,148 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War....."
suicide by a gun is still a gun death.. as is a gun accident... the FBI doesnt count these.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
she was an armed security guard. thank god for her, and may god bless her.
however, as the posted above me pointed out, it's more sad that we she even needed to be there...why should we need armed guards at a church?
i'm a supporter of the second amendment, but i think proper precautions needed to be taken in order to protect society as much as possible without taking away our rights. a proper waiting period, thorough background checks, etc. should be put into place - anyone who wants one can still have one, as guaranteed in the constitution, and chances of them going into the wrong hands are lessened.
also, i support letting different cities & towns write their own laws, as long as it doesn't ban them completely or get someone in trouble carrying their gun from town to town, etc. i'm from a small, conservative town, where guns are used for hunting and whatnot...no one has been murdered with a gun in years. i now live in pittsburgh, and see that guns are used for different reasons and this city has a 180 perspective...in other words, a city like pittsburgh should be allowed to enact stricter laws while small towns like my hometown should have looser ones.
dude; she wasn't a security guard at the church. and security guards are never allowed to carry conceald weapons. she was a security guard as her profession; but she wasn't on duty. she had a permit to carry that conceald weapon and she did. and yes; thank God for that.
he's what i don't understand. where i'm at; anyone who isn't a felon can carry a gun IN PLAIN SIGHT; anywhere except a couple places; but they can also apply for a permit to carry that gun conceald. 80,000 people have.
here's the question:
WHY CAN PEOPLE HERE GET ALONG BETTER; AND HANDLE THE RESPONSABILITY OF A GUN; BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE IN PITTSBURG?
i'm dead bloody serious. what you've said is that people in pittsburg need stricter gun laws. if so; then either they cannot get along or cannot handle the responsability of a gun whereas people in other states can. thus the need for different laws in different areas. but the us is suppose to be equal. am i that much better than the bloke in pittsburg because i can handle the responsability?
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Agree with you, 100%.
I also believe in the Second Amendment right... but, it needs to have certain limits... such as, you can't buy a .50 caliber machine gun or a 105mm Howitzer because a .50 machine gun is a horrible hunting gun... as is the Howitzer.
And... that States should be able to create and support their own gun laws. Like, I don't want more fucking guns in Los Angeles... but, I don't want to take guns away from rural America... where environment and population are completely different. I don't think that gun control nuts from California should swarm to Nebraska and take guns away and I don't believe NRA gun nuts from Montana sholud come to L.A. and protest our gun laws.
Few would argue that the 2nd Amendment protects the right to own personal nuclear weapons, but there is really nothing in the 2nd Amendment allowing restrictions on future technological developments in arms. The 1st Amendment is not limited to 18th century printing technology, or 18th century religions. U.S. versus Miller indicated that the weapons protected were weapons "commonly in use by soldiers". This would mean that the 2nd Amendment protects private ownership of not only semi-automatic "assault weapons", but also actual military assault rifles, which can fire either semi-automatic, three-shot bursts, or fully automatic mode. http://www.trollcave.com/2nd_Amendment.html
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It says more about how fucked up America is because you need to post 15 to 20 armed security guards at your CHURCH!!!
show me where she was a security guard AT THE CHURCH. yes; her profession was a security guard; but she was attending church. she had a conceald weapons permit AND her gun. funny how people try to twist a story.
you are looking at the FBI's stats for gun homicides only i think.. there are more than 20,000 gun DEATHS per year... to quote the http://www.cdc.gov 1998 report
"...In 1998, 30,708 Americans were killed with firearms - in homicides, suicides and accidents. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,148 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War....."
suicide by a gun is still a gun death.. as is a gun accident... the FBI doesnt count these.
I wonder how much those numbers increased since 1998?
There are also the ones who have been shot and severally injured with brain injuries, paralyzed and etc.
Missed your humor the past few days
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't think anyone is talking about a complete gun ban as a realistic possibility so this is a stupid point. However, there need to be limits. Civilian Americans do not need high powered rifles. In any case the ~20 000 gun deaths a year in the states illustrates that many are unable/can not be trusted to use fire arms safely. How many people have to die to get the message through your thick skulls?
I have a thick skull? I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.
How many weapons will be off the street tomorrow if a law is put into place outlawing all guns?
We can't build enough prisons. There are already multitudes of firearms laws... Face 5 etc etc. They aren't doing any good. It's already illegal to own assault weapons and automatics. You already have to have concealed carry permits to carry a hand gun legally.
Stupid ass lunatics owning weapons is the problem but until we do something about American attitudes towards life in general all the laws in the world aren't going to stop these mass murder suicides from happening.
I am all for gun education and gun safety at young ages, just as I am for sex education at young ages. I also am for Trigger locks and authorization codes built in to weapon stocks. The vast majority of law abiding citizens don't have much need for weapons and don't choose to own them and if they do they aren't killing people. I don't see much of the point in making a person a criminal simply for having a few rifles in thier closet that may have belonged to thier grandfather and might get shot once in a blue moon just as I don't see the point in making people who smoke a few joints on thier front porch or grow Marijuana in their garden "criminals"
Making another law that is impossible to police isn't going to do anything but make a few politicans feel good about themselves.
My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
dude; she wasn't a security guard at the church. and security guards are never allowed to carry conceald weapons. she was a security guard as her profession; but she wasn't on duty. she had a permit to carry that conceald weapon and she did. and yes; thank God for that.
he's what i don't understand. where i'm at; anyone who isn't a felon can carry a gun IN PLAIN SIGHT; anywhere except a couple places; but they can also apply for a permit to carry that gun conceald. 80,000 people have.
here's the question:
WHY CAN PEOPLE HERE GET ALONG BETTER; AND HANDLE THE RESPONSABILITY OF A GUN; BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE IN PITTSBURG?
i'm dead bloody serious. what you've said is that people in pittsburg need stricter gun laws. if so; then either they cannot get along or cannot handle the responsability of a gun whereas people in other states can. thus the need for different laws in different areas. but the us is suppose to be equal. am i that much better than the bloke in pittsburg because i can handle the responsability?
there are more poor people living in isolated poverty being forced into small quarters in direct competition with each other in pittsburgh and any other major city than in your rural nowhere town.
show me where she was a security guard AT THE CHURCH. yes; her profession was a security guard; but she was attending church. she had a conceald weapons permit AND her gun. funny how people try to twist a story.
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Here you go:
"Police did not release the identity of the gunman, who was shot and killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff. Boyd said the gunman had no connection to the church and called it a “senseless random attack.”"
"The gunman was killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff before police arrived, Meyers said."
"Some 15 to 20 volunteer guards serve at the church, Boyd said, noting that an evacuation plan was performed flawlessly."
Another source:
"DENVER (AP) - Police say an autopsy shows the man who killed four people at a Colorado church and a missionary training center died from a bullet he fired himself -- though he was hit by shots from a church security officer."
...
Here you go:
"Police did not release the identity of the gunman, who was shot and killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff. Boyd said the gunman had no connection to the church and called it a “senseless random attack.”"
"Some 15 to 20 volunteer guards serve at the church, Boyd said, noting that an evacuation plan was performed flawlessly."
Another source:
"DENVER (AP) - Police say an autopsy shows the man who killed four people at a Colorado church and a missionary training center died from a bullet he fired himself -- though he was hit by shots from a church security officer."
dude; she wasn't a security guard at the church. and security guards are never allowed to carry conceald weapons. she was a security guard as her profession; but she wasn't on duty. she had a permit to carry that conceald weapon and she did. and yes; thank God for that.
he's what i don't understand. where i'm at; anyone who isn't a felon can carry a gun IN PLAIN SIGHT; anywhere except a couple places; but they can also apply for a permit to carry that gun conceald. 80,000 people have.
here's the question:
WHY CAN PEOPLE HERE GET ALONG BETTER; AND HANDLE THE RESPONSABILITY OF A GUN; BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE IN PITTSBURG?
i'm dead bloody serious. what you've said is that people in pittsburg need stricter gun laws. if so; then either they cannot get along or cannot handle the responsability of a gun whereas people in other states can. thus the need for different laws in different areas. but the us is suppose to be equal. am i that much better than the bloke in pittsburg because i can handle the responsability?
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Where you're at? You personally know of special needs children being enslaved... and accept 'It's hard to find homes for Special needs kids.' as an excuse to abuse them. And trigger happy neighbors just itching to shoot an unarmed man in a fist fight?
Yeah... sounds like a real fucking great place to live.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
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Where you're at? You personally know of special needs children being enslaved... and accept 'It's hard to find homes for Special needs kids.' as an excuse to abuse them. And trigger happy neighbors just itching to shoot an unarmed man in a fist fight?
Yeah... sounds like a real fucking great place to live.
again; what are you talking about? i worked with special needs children; yes. i knew someone i thought was abusing those children by making them work in a way that i believed was slave labour. i reported that foster home to the state who said foster homes were hard to find. and i notified the school who's counselor interviewed the children and reported it to the state. the court then removed the children from the home; but decided that chores are a normal part of life and chores on a horse farm will naturally be different than chores in a city dwelling. so no charges were pressed.
i made a couple calls to CPS offices in states back east and found that foster homes for retarded and abused children are even harder to find. so i fail to see your point.
i do not recall any conversation about shooting a neighbour over a fist fight so i cannot comment.
i had a crow that woke me up every morning for a month. i decided it was him or me. it took me 6 weeks or so to finally shoot that bastard. the second i touched the door he heard it. i finally had to leave the window open enough to get a rifle barrel out. he's mounted so i can see him every day now.
and he hasn't made a sound in over 27 years.
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Here you go:
"Police did not release the identity of the gunman, who was shot and killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff. Boyd said the gunman had no connection to the church and called it a “senseless random attack.”"
"The gunman was killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff before police arrived, Meyers said."
"Some 15 to 20 volunteer guards serve at the church, Boyd said, noting that an evacuation plan was performed flawlessly."
Another source:
"DENVER (AP) - Police say an autopsy shows the man who killed four people at a Colorado church and a missionary training center died from a bullet he fired himself -- though he was hit by shots from a church security officer."
what crow? the information on the tele right after the incident obviouly wasn't as accurate as the information you found. i was wrong and i admitt that. i didn't have credable information. it happens all the time with people here. i'm one that will admitt when i'm wrong.
again; what are you talking about? i worked with special needs children; yes. i knew someone i thought was abusing those children by making them work in a way that i believed was slave labour. i reported that foster home to the state who said foster homes were hard to find. and i notified the school who's counselor interviewed the children and reported it to the state. the court then removed the children from the home; but decided that chores are a normal part of life and chores on a horse farm will naturally be different than chores in a city dwelling. so no charges were pressed.
i made a couple calls to CPS offices in states back east and found that foster homes for retarded and abused children are even harder to find. so i fail to see your point.
i do not recall any conversation about shooting a neighbour over a fist fight so i cannot comment.
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Your recollection skills are about as good as Bush or cheney... neither of them recall saying loony shit in the past, either.
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Again.. to refresh your memory:
Ref. ( http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265855 )
#119 - i can give you a list of people working the system. i've got these neighbours that take in abused kids as foster parents. gread deed right? they use the kids as slave labour but they get $2400/month PER BLOODY CHILD. they don't work at all. recently they sent a girl back and traded her for 2 brothers. the brothers can stay in the same room and they needed to increase their income. these children get nothing from them. 1 new outfit for school. last year i spent more for the gifts i gave those children than they did. i later found out that after the neighbourhood christmas; they returned the kids presents. except the ones for their own daughter. she got a phone and a laptop. and 2 months ago their daughter got a brand new pick up truck for her 15th birthday. there's no law here so people don't worry about drivers licenses or things like that.
these are the kinds of things i see.
#127 - i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
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About your psycho neighbors wanting to kill an unarmed man...
You were acting all Johnny Macho with guns and knives an shit (something I find completely pathetic).
#112 - you best be checking the gunlaws in the states you're going to. if you drew back on anyone in this town; you'd be dead before you could throw the punch. and that's a fact you can take to the bank.
#123 - i'm faster with a knife. besides; if you drew back on 1 resident; a dozen residents would be emptying their mags into you.
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Read an recall.
So, now... instead of eating just one crow... you need to eat an entire murder of them.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
what crow? the information on the tele right after the incident obviouly wasn't as accurate as the information you found. i was wrong and i admitt that. i didn't have credable information. it happens all the time with people here. i'm one that will admitt when i'm wrong.
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Then, you might look into checking out some facts before accusing someone of 'twisting' stories to fit non-existant agendas.
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Does crow taste like chicken?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Your recollection skills are about as good as Bush or cheney... neither of them recall saying loony shit in the past, either.
...
Again.. to refresh your memory:
Ref. ( http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265855 )
#119 - i can give you a list of people working the system. i've got these neighbours that take in abused kids as foster parents. gread deed right? they use the kids as slave labour but they get $2400/month PER BLOODY CHILD. they don't work at all. recently they sent a girl back and traded her for 2 brothers. the brothers can stay in the same room and they needed to increase their income. these children get nothing from them. 1 new outfit for school. last year i spent more for the gifts i gave those children than they did. i later found out that after the neighbourhood christmas; they returned the kids presents. except the ones for their own daughter. she got a phone and a laptop. and 2 months ago their daughter got a brand new pick up truck for her 15th birthday. there's no law here so people don't worry about drivers licenses or things like that.
these are the kinds of things i see.
#127 - i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
...
About your psycho neighbors wanting to kill an unarmed man...
You were acting all Johnny Macho with guns and knives an shit (something I find completely pathetic).
#112 - you best be checking the gunlaws in the states you're going to. if you drew back on anyone in this town; you'd be dead before you could throw the punch. and that's a fact you can take to the bank.
#123 - i'm faster with a knife. besides; if you drew back on 1 resident; a dozen residents would be emptying their mags into you.
...
Read an recall.
So, now... instead of eating just one crow... you need to eat an entire murder of them.
those neighbours were reported until someone listened and something was done about it. cities have much more system abuse so what's your point. you'll find much more abuse in NYC yet they have the strictest gunlaws so where does that fits in here?
most of that list includes people from phoenix; but again; where does that fit in here?
if your neighbours wouldn't protect you; i feel sorry for you.
and yes; draw back on me and i'll shoot you dead. it's called self defence. backed by the supreme court. if you can't live by society's rules and be peaceful; you pay the price.
i can throw a knife more accurately than most people can shoot.
as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.
as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.
yeah, we called them shit talkers where i went to school... you know, the guy that no matter what the subject was ALWAYS was an expert, and always either had done what you were talking about and in a way better or cooler fashion, or knew personally someone who had. we liked to make fun of them for their tall tales.
throwing knives eh? you keep dodging that point... that you're a coward who can't face anyone like a man... hand to hand. you talk only of killing with weapons.
i also don't buy your devil's advocate thing. you don't honestly argue both sides. you mock the one you adopt.
yeah, we called them shit talkers where i went to school... you know, the guy that no matter what the subject was ALWAYS was an expert, and always either had done what you were talking about and in a way better or cooler fashion, or knew personally someone who had. we liked to make fun of them for their tall tales.
throwing knives eh? you keep dodging that point... that you're a coward who can't face anyone like a man... hand to hand. you talk only of killing with weapons.
i also don't buy your devil's advocate thing. you don't honestly argue both sides. you mock the one you adopt.
it's clear to me that i'll never hear anything intelligent from you. please put me on your ignore list.
it's clear to me that i'll never hear anything intelligent from you. please put me on your ignore list.
you are incapable of doing that yourself? i get a kick out of exposing you... "answer the question claire"... do you have the cojones to fight like a man?
i know the truth can hurt. shall i list your resume again? you did add astronomist and climatologist to it yesterday, i feel it needs updating! im only saying this becos im truly impressed how no matter what the subject is you can come up with a story of you rescuing abused children (how do you get those pictures of the abuse if they live so far away you need a flag to communicate with them and mel gibson's house is in between you?_ or a guy you know who was a criminal mastermind on a dime. i really hope you reply to this to tell me you used to be the kickboxing middleweight champ of the western us and you'll take me on any day. that would just be too perfect.
Read Freakanomics. There are some great answers to the crime debate in the US. It's not about the guns... It's about class struggles, education, rich vs poor, equality, cultural hatred, healthcare , frustration, and abortion rates.
Our country is unique in all these aspects so drawing comparisons with counties with strict gun laws is erroneous because the socioeconomic systems are vastly different.
Comments
it baffles me that an armed citizen saved lives the other day when a gunman opened fire in a church; net no thread about it.
It says more about how fucked up America is because you need to post 15 to 20 armed security guards at your CHURCH!!!
Hail, Hail!!!
she was an armed security guard. thank god for her, and may god bless her.
however, as the posted above me pointed out, it's more sad that we she even needed to be there...why should we need armed guards at a church?
i'm a supporter of the second amendment, but i think proper precautions needed to be taken in order to protect society as much as possible without taking away our rights. a proper waiting period, thorough background checks, etc. should be put into place - anyone who wants one can still have one, as guaranteed in the constitution, and chances of them going into the wrong hands are lessened.
also, i support letting different cities & towns write their own laws, as long as it doesn't ban them completely or get someone in trouble carrying their gun from town to town, etc. i'm from a small, conservative town, where guns are used for hunting and whatnot...no one has been murdered with a gun in years. i now live in pittsburgh, and see that guns are used for different reasons and this city has a 180 perspective...in other words, a city like pittsburgh should be allowed to enact stricter laws while small towns like my hometown should have looser ones.
Madison Square Garden 6/25/08
Agree with you, 100%.
I also believe in the Second Amendment right... but, it needs to have certain limits... such as, you can't buy a .50 caliber machine gun or a 105mm Howitzer because a .50 machine gun is a horrible hunting gun... as is the Howitzer.
And... that States should be able to create and support their own gun laws. Like, I don't want more fucking guns in Los Angeles... but, I don't want to take guns away from rural America... where environment and population are completely different. I don't think that gun control nuts from California should swarm to Nebraska and take guns away and I don't believe NRA gun nuts from Montana sholud come to L.A. and protest our gun laws.
Hail, Hail!!!
I don't think anyone is talking about a complete gun ban as a realistic possibility so this is a stupid point. However, there need to be limits. Civilian Americans do not need high powered rifles. In any case the ~20 000 gun deaths a year in the states illustrates that many are unable/can not be trusted to use fire arms safely. How many people have to die to get the message through your thick skulls?
Come on, this is bs. Surely you understand the equation : more guns = more deaths due to firearms. And, to please the factual police : higher firearm ownership = higher homicide rates in the us if you want more, just type "gun control" on that website.
I understand that you will not let go of your 2nd amendment but at least make it a little harder to get guns. I read somewhere that in some states you can order them on the internet... I mean, making it harder to get them will mean less people will have them which will mean less risks for accidents and other stupid stuff which ends with dead people.
according to the FBI; there are less than 10,000 gun deaths each year. are you making up stats as you go along? we have 330 million residents plus 15 million illegal residents. you do the math.
you are looking at the FBI's stats for gun homicides only i think.. there are more than 20,000 gun DEATHS per year... to quote the http://www.cdc.gov 1998 report
"...In 1998, 30,708 Americans were killed with firearms - in homicides, suicides and accidents. In comparison, 33,651 Americans were killed in the Korean War and 58,148 Americans were killed in the Vietnam War....."
suicide by a gun is still a gun death.. as is a gun accident... the FBI doesnt count these.
dude; she wasn't a security guard at the church. and security guards are never allowed to carry conceald weapons. she was a security guard as her profession; but she wasn't on duty. she had a permit to carry that conceald weapon and she did. and yes; thank God for that.
he's what i don't understand. where i'm at; anyone who isn't a felon can carry a gun IN PLAIN SIGHT; anywhere except a couple places; but they can also apply for a permit to carry that gun conceald. 80,000 people have.
here's the question:
WHY CAN PEOPLE HERE GET ALONG BETTER; AND HANDLE THE RESPONSABILITY OF A GUN; BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE IN PITTSBURG?
i'm dead bloody serious. what you've said is that people in pittsburg need stricter gun laws. if so; then either they cannot get along or cannot handle the responsability of a gun whereas people in other states can. thus the need for different laws in different areas. but the us is suppose to be equal. am i that much better than the bloke in pittsburg because i can handle the responsability?
Few would argue that the 2nd Amendment protects the right to own personal nuclear weapons, but there is really nothing in the 2nd Amendment allowing restrictions on future technological developments in arms. The 1st Amendment is not limited to 18th century printing technology, or 18th century religions. U.S. versus Miller indicated that the weapons protected were weapons "commonly in use by soldiers". This would mean that the 2nd Amendment protects private ownership of not only semi-automatic "assault weapons", but also actual military assault rifles, which can fire either semi-automatic, three-shot bursts, or fully automatic mode.
http://www.trollcave.com/2nd_Amendment.html
show me where she was a security guard AT THE CHURCH. yes; her profession was a security guard; but she was attending church. she had a conceald weapons permit AND her gun. funny how people try to twist a story.
I wonder how much those numbers increased since 1998?
There are also the ones who have been shot and severally injured with brain injuries, paralyzed and etc.
Missed your humor the past few days
me too.. its probably a 10 year study pattern or something... so next year? maybe?
yes, again thats probably higher than the actual death total isnt it?
you missed? then you should go on a gun course
and when someone brings humor into such a serious conversation; it's time to walk away from it.
peace-out
I have a thick skull? I don't disagree with a lot of what you say.
How many weapons will be off the street tomorrow if a law is put into place outlawing all guns?
We can't build enough prisons. There are already multitudes of firearms laws... Face 5 etc etc. They aren't doing any good. It's already illegal to own assault weapons and automatics. You already have to have concealed carry permits to carry a hand gun legally.
Stupid ass lunatics owning weapons is the problem but until we do something about American attitudes towards life in general all the laws in the world aren't going to stop these mass murder suicides from happening.
I am all for gun education and gun safety at young ages, just as I am for sex education at young ages. I also am for Trigger locks and authorization codes built in to weapon stocks. The vast majority of law abiding citizens don't have much need for weapons and don't choose to own them and if they do they aren't killing people. I don't see much of the point in making a person a criminal simply for having a few rifles in thier closet that may have belonged to thier grandfather and might get shot once in a blue moon just as I don't see the point in making people who smoke a few joints on thier front porch or grow Marijuana in their garden "criminals"
Making another law that is impossible to police isn't going to do anything but make a few politicans feel good about themselves.
there are more poor people living in isolated poverty being forced into small quarters in direct competition with each other in pittsburgh and any other major city than in your rural nowhere town.
Here you go:
"Police did not release the identity of the gunman, who was shot and killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff. Boyd said the gunman had no connection to the church and called it a “senseless random attack.”"
"The gunman was killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff before police arrived, Meyers said."
"Some 15 to 20 volunteer guards serve at the church, Boyd said, noting that an evacuation plan was performed flawlessly."
Ref. ( http://www.gjsentinel.com/news/content/news/stories/2007/12/10/ChurchShootings.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=7 )
Another source:
"DENVER (AP) - Police say an autopsy shows the man who killed four people at a Colorado church and a missionary training center died from a bullet he fired himself -- though he was hit by shots from a church security officer."
Ref. ( http://www.montanasnewsstation.com/global/story.asp?s=7481426 )
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Let me know how that Crow tastes.
Hail, Hail!!!
damn you man! i was all set yo get outta here, but i just have to see this... assuming he responds.
I heard it takes a while to catch a crow.
Hail, Hail!!!
Where you're at? You personally know of special needs children being enslaved... and accept 'It's hard to find homes for Special needs kids.' as an excuse to abuse them. And trigger happy neighbors just itching to shoot an unarmed man in a fist fight?
Yeah... sounds like a real fucking great place to live.
Hail, Hail!!!
again; what are you talking about? i worked with special needs children; yes. i knew someone i thought was abusing those children by making them work in a way that i believed was slave labour. i reported that foster home to the state who said foster homes were hard to find. and i notified the school who's counselor interviewed the children and reported it to the state. the court then removed the children from the home; but decided that chores are a normal part of life and chores on a horse farm will naturally be different than chores in a city dwelling. so no charges were pressed.
i made a couple calls to CPS offices in states back east and found that foster homes for retarded and abused children are even harder to find. so i fail to see your point.
i do not recall any conversation about shooting a neighbour over a fist fight so i cannot comment.
i had a crow that woke me up every morning for a month. i decided it was him or me. it took me 6 weeks or so to finally shoot that bastard. the second i touched the door he heard it. i finally had to leave the window open enough to get a rifle barrel out. he's mounted so i can see him every day now.
and he hasn't made a sound in over 27 years.
what crow? the information on the tele right after the incident obviouly wasn't as accurate as the information you found. i was wrong and i admitt that. i didn't have credable information. it happens all the time with people here. i'm one that will admitt when i'm wrong.
Your recollection skills are about as good as Bush or cheney... neither of them recall saying loony shit in the past, either.
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Again.. to refresh your memory:
Ref. ( http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265855 )
#119 - i can give you a list of people working the system. i've got these neighbours that take in abused kids as foster parents. gread deed right? they use the kids as slave labour but they get $2400/month PER BLOODY CHILD. they don't work at all. recently they sent a girl back and traded her for 2 brothers. the brothers can stay in the same room and they needed to increase their income. these children get nothing from them. 1 new outfit for school. last year i spent more for the gifts i gave those children than they did. i later found out that after the neighbourhood christmas; they returned the kids presents. except the ones for their own daughter. she got a phone and a laptop. and 2 months ago their daughter got a brand new pick up truck for her 15th birthday. there's no law here so people don't worry about drivers licenses or things like that.
these are the kinds of things i see.
#127 - i photograph every instance of abuse and i report them to the state. at least once a month. the state replies that they cannot get enough families willing to take special needs kids so the state does nothing. i do all i can including buying those kids decent presents.
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About your psycho neighbors wanting to kill an unarmed man...
You were acting all Johnny Macho with guns and knives an shit (something I find completely pathetic).
#112 - you best be checking the gunlaws in the states you're going to. if you drew back on anyone in this town; you'd be dead before you could throw the punch. and that's a fact you can take to the bank.
#123 - i'm faster with a knife. besides; if you drew back on 1 resident; a dozen residents would be emptying their mags into you.
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Read an recall.
So, now... instead of eating just one crow... you need to eat an entire murder of them.
Hail, Hail!!!
Then, you might look into checking out some facts before accusing someone of 'twisting' stories to fit non-existant agendas.
...
Does crow taste like chicken?
Hail, Hail!!!
those neighbours were reported until someone listened and something was done about it. cities have much more system abuse so what's your point. you'll find much more abuse in NYC yet they have the strictest gunlaws so where does that fits in here?
most of that list includes people from phoenix; but again; where does that fit in here?
if your neighbours wouldn't protect you; i feel sorry for you.
and yes; draw back on me and i'll shoot you dead. it's called self defence. backed by the supreme court. if you can't live by society's rules and be peaceful; you pay the price.
i can throw a knife more accurately than most people can shoot.
as for the rest; i posted a disclaimer at/near the beginning of that thread saying i'm taking the extreme side for the sake of the debate. it also said that some things said are not my belief; but only part of the debate process. remember debate in school? you were given a topic to defend. my thread about the housewife killing an attacker where i defended the attacker; was clear to any idiot that i can defend both sides. you must take the entire debate as a whole. i'm honoured that you think so much of me; that you hang on every word and archive everything i say. unfortunately; i don't feel the same.
yeah, we called them shit talkers where i went to school... you know, the guy that no matter what the subject was ALWAYS was an expert, and always either had done what you were talking about and in a way better or cooler fashion, or knew personally someone who had. we liked to make fun of them for their tall tales.
throwing knives eh? you keep dodging that point... that you're a coward who can't face anyone like a man... hand to hand. you talk only of killing with weapons.
i also don't buy your devil's advocate thing. you don't honestly argue both sides. you mock the one you adopt.
it's clear to me that i'll never hear anything intelligent from you. please put me on your ignore list.
you are incapable of doing that yourself? i get a kick out of exposing you... "answer the question claire"... do you have the cojones to fight like a man?
i know the truth can hurt. shall i list your resume again? you did add astronomist and climatologist to it yesterday, i feel it needs updating! im only saying this becos im truly impressed how no matter what the subject is you can come up with a story of you rescuing abused children (how do you get those pictures of the abuse if they live so far away you need a flag to communicate with them and mel gibson's house is in between you?_ or a guy you know who was a criminal mastermind on a dime. i really hope you reply to this to tell me you used to be the kickboxing middleweight champ of the western us and you'll take me on any day. that would just be too perfect.
Our country is unique in all these aspects so drawing comparisons with counties with strict gun laws is erroneous because the socioeconomic systems are vastly different.