why do you believe in God or...

Ahnimus

God is invisible because God is nothing

kinetic

Ahnimus wrote:

God is invisible because God is nothing

I just love this...no...thing...

Ahnimus

kinetic wrote:

I just love this...no...thing...

Yea, I mean, we like to put human characteristics to the Universe. But the universe is organized by a set of laws, which aren't anything tangible. So what I mean is, this God figure, is likely just a set of laws that regulates how things interact. Laws are not objects and they are not forces either. So besides being laws, they are nothing.

deadnothingbetter

69charger wrote:

I suggest you take your own advice and realise the whole Bible is just a story not meant to be taken literally. It's a guidebook to keep a particlular civilization together thousands of years ago.

Time for a new guidebook. Chapter One: There is no God.

i suggest you respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.

deadnothingbetter

soulsinging wrote:

this still answers nothing. how about you tell me in your own words instead of hiding behind scripture passages you seem to know don't prove shit with respect to your point. how is a person raised in aboriginal australia supposed to become a christian? how is a poor old man in rural india who has never heard of anything aside from the hinduism his ancestors have believed for a thousand years supposed to suddenly learn about jesus and jump on the bandwagon? or is it just a subtle way for you and your kind to convince yourselves white, anglo-saxon people are superior to everyone else due to god inserting his religion into our culture, but not indian or chinese culture?



this is a bullshit cop out and you know it. god could have done whatever he damn well pleased. in your religion, he decided everyone would pay for the sins of adam and eve. he could simply have forgiven original sin and wiped the slate clean and let everyone sin and be forgiven on their own merits. instead, he made original sin stick to every human ever, said he'd make us all damned for the first humans' mistake. then it is OUR fault jesus had to die? is god not powerful enough to have forgiven original sin without that?



i am interpreting it right. im just saying it seems like a dick move to me. if god is all-powerful as christianity claims, he could make things easier for humans, he could forgive with a wave of his hand. but he chooses not to. that isn't love... it's legal technicalities.

ironic tht when this thread started i was talking about my belief in god.

i'll respond later... i gotta get back to work.

69charger

deadnothingbetter wrote:

i suggest you respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.

Respect is earned and modern religion certainly has not earned anyone's respect. It's a huge money making scam run by power hungry individuals who couldn't live by the morals they preach if thier fortunes depended on it.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

God is invisible because God is nothing

Profound, Ahnimus, and correct, too. That's why Buddhism aspires to the state of nothing. MU: no self, no ego, no permanence. Every"thing" is an illusion. Any"thing" that arises eventually falls away. All that remains, always, is what's eternal. And it's here right now in the inner worlds--eternally. Awareness. Beingness. The "I am that I am". ...Invisibly...

According to physicist David Bohm, we have an "unknown and undescribable totality". He refers to this as the "holomovement". It is apparently unknown and undescribable.

My spiritual experiences have been with "no" thing. They were otherworldly and there are not words or symbols here to represent what is not of this world. The key here is that a word such as "God" is a symbol. as are all these words. The reality represented by the words is far beyond the words, themselves, and our comprehension, as well. During some of my spiritual experiences, I have been shown otherworldly energy that brought me to my knees in humility, sobbing. What I experienced was so stunning. And still, as it sunk into my mind, I lost the reality of what I experienced.
What remains is the dramatic ways this "know"ledge has filtered into my own being.


"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced, there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religous man". ~ Albert Einstein

deadnothingbetter

69charger wrote:

Respect is earned and modern religion certainly has not earned anyone's respect. It's a huge money making scam run by power hungry individuals who couldn't live by the morals they preach if thier fortunes depended on it.

yeah, you're pretty out of it dude... you lack social skills or somethin....

i live a simple life, take a day at a time... work full-time, go to school and every step i take i try and make the moments valuable for myself and those around me... i don't spend anytime giving my 2 cents, or brainwashing people with my beliefs, or political agendas...

you need to get your perspectives straight at addressing your issues you have against religions. not everybody imposes their beliefs on others, and so far, i've tried my best to be that person. i don't claim to know more than you, don't claim to be holier than you, don't claim anything. i only have my beliefs, and my beliefs are rightly earned at the first signs of breathe... just like you... so one more time my friend. respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.

as far as i'm concerned, religion has nothing to do with my beliefs.

freedomboy

deadnothingbetter wrote:

what part of the definition of the word parable do you not understand?

Okay, I will use a more simple example of contradiction in the bible. David kills Goliath, and cuts off his head... God instills in him the power to do this. Why would God empower David to kill Goliath if he teaches that "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... and if you say that God didn't empower him to do so, but just allowed it, then why did God allow this story to be in the Bible, as it promotes something he created laws against? After all it is the inspired word of God is it not?

Here is another contradiction. Jesus preaches about forgiveness, but in the end days he will throw all of the non-believers into a lake of fire where they will experience an ETERNITY of TORTURE! Please explain.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

Profound, Ahnimus, and correct, too. That's why Buddhism aspires to the state of nothing. MU: no self, no ego, no permanence. Every"thing" is an illusion. Any"thing" that arises eventually falls away. All that remains, always, is what's eternal. And it's here right now in the inner worlds--eternally. Awareness. Beingness. The "I am that I am". ...Invisibly...

According to physicist David Bohm, we have an "unknown and undescribable totality". He refers to this as the "holomovement". It is apparently unknown and undescribable.

My spiritual experiences have been with "no" thing. They were otherworldly and there are not words or symbols here to represent what is not of this world. The key here is that a word such as "God" is a symbol. as are all these words. The reality represented by the words is far beyond the words, themselves, and our comprehension, as well. During some of my spiritual experiences, I have been shown otherworldly energy that brought me to my knees in humility, sobbing. What I experienced was so stunning. And still, as it sunk into my mind, I lost the reality of what I experienced.
What remains is the dramatic ways this "know"ledge has filtered into my own being.


"To sense that behind anything that can be experienced, there is something that our minds cannot grasp, whose beauty and sublimity reaches us indirectly: this is religiousness. In this sense, and in this sense only, I am a devoutly religous man". ~ Albert Einstein

how can one experience no thing?

freedomboy

angelica wrote:

Life contradicts itself. Life is full of absurdities and paradoxes. That is its nature. What you are looking for is satisfaction of your logical awareness which is independent of the whole and Truth of life. Even in the logical discipline of quantum physics, paradoxes, contradictions and absurdities are known and accepted as existing in order to appreciate the depths of natural principles.

The logical, linear view provides us a map for the territory. However, when you confuse the map or the symbols, which merely represent the Truth, to BE the truth, the problem is in your methods, not with spirituality, itself.

The bible is meant to be read with whole and integrated intelligence, which includes our intuitive and emotional intelligences (heart and spirit) alongside logic. Therefore, we can appreciate truths whole-istically.

On the other hand, we can use logic to "prove" or "justify" anything we like. If our logic is detached of the "whole", whether in our intelligences, or in reality, it will be also detached of realism.

You are a philosophy major aren't you? Well said. I agree with everything you've said here, but I put GREAT EMPHASIS on your closing paragraph.

My faith or "spirituality" begins and ends here: humanity.

deadnothingbetter

now onto yours....

soulsinging wrote:

this still answers nothing. how about you tell me in your own words instead of hiding behind scripture passages you seem to know don't prove shit with respect to your point. how is a person raised in aboriginal australia supposed to become a christian? how is a poor old man in rural india who has never heard of anything aside from the hinduism his ancestors have believed for a thousand years supposed to suddenly learn about jesus and jump on the bandwagon? or is it just a subtle way for you and your kind to convince yourselves white, anglo-saxon people are superior to everyone else due to god inserting his religion into our culture, but not indian or chinese culture?

first, the whole anglo-saxon is irrelevant... i didn't even know my grandpa so what am i going to worry about my entire people? especially since i'm mexican. second, don't you get it? i understand what you're saying and i'm not going to argue against it. i know what you mean. but don't you understand that i believe in the bible? that's it. that's all i can say. i'm not going to argue with you. so, yeah, i guess... you win this one. that still doesn't rule out anything tho... i have my beliefs, my beliefs which are according to the bible says that no one's without excuse... that's it.

this is a bullshit cop out and you know it. god could have done whatever he damn well pleased. in your religion, he decided everyone would pay for the sins of adam and eve. he could simply have forgiven original sin and wiped the slate clean and let everyone sin and be forgiven on their own merits. instead, he made original sin stick to every human ever, said he'd make us all damned for the first humans' mistake. then it is OUR fault jesus had to die? is god not powerful enough to have forgiven original sin without that?

when adam sinned it's as if he passed it onto his children, and the children to their children... that's why romans says, "wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men." God's not so worried about sin alone... the only reason why he hates sin so much is because of what sin has caused to humanity. it's brought death. it wasn't God who intentionally made "sin stick to every human ever" it came with them. when i was born, i was born to a corrupted body; a body that is prone to get sick and die. so were you. at least, that's the message of the bible... you could argue against it all you want, but it's really not going to get you anywhere. and neither for me.

you say that God is powerful enough to get rid of sin if he wanted to, well, no, not really. God has never interfered with our choices, as i've said many times. since he placed a will in us to make our own decisions it's as if God's glory is perfected in our lives when we choose life, or the life that Christ came to show us. and basically, that's what the biblical God wants, to give you back the glorious life that you once had in the garden of eden... or so it goes.

if god is all-powerful as christianity claims, he could make things easier for humans, he could forgive with a wave of his hand.

read above

ironic tht when this thread started i was talking about my belief in god.

what do you mean?

deadnothingbetter

brokendave wrote:

Okay, I will use a more simple example of contradiction in the bible. David kills Goliath, and cuts off his head... God instills in him the power to do this. Why would God empower David to kill Goliath if he teaches that "Thou Shalt Not Kill"... and if you say that God didn't empower him to do so, but just allowed it, then why did God allow this story to be in the Bible, as it promotes something he created laws against? After all it is the inspired word of God is it not?

or you could've talked about when God instructed Joshua to do a genocide in Joshua 6...

Here is another contradiction. Jesus preaches about forgiveness, but in the end days he will throw all of the non-believers into a lake of fire where they will experience an ETERNITY of TORTURE! Please explain.

now this one, this one is comical.... but sorry it's got to end this way. i love you but i'm too tired to explain.

angelica

catefrances wrote:

how can one experience no thing?

People spend years in spiritual training in order to do so. Others have spontaneous experiences of it. Ultimately, it's transcendence beyond the realm of form. It's impossible to explain and do it justice. Although it's very simple and natural when one is clear and "free".

I know I am naturally wired to experience it. I have a natural intuition in the "inner worlds". In terms of personality types, I know lot of people who are so inclined as well. Unfortunately, many people I know as so inclined are entranced by sensory stimulus with vices, etc. and numb themselves to this predisposition, rather than hone it.

I literally cannot describe the no-thing spiritual experiences I've had, except with metaphors that are sadly lacking, such as by talking in terms of "Light", or saying "it's LIKE God came from the heavens and talked to me."

The reason I continue to do what I can to hone these experiences are not only because they are stunning, but because when I open to channel this "no-thing" energy, it allows me to feel amazing energy pass through me in my mundane life, through debating, creating, or whatever. To in-form one's life with the "no-thing" is amazing. And the reason it feels so good, is because it is our base nature. We naturally gravitate towards joy and deep all-encompassing unconditional Love, as it's what we stem from.

angelica

brokendave wrote:

You are a philosophy major aren't you?

Close! Unfortunately or fortunately, I've had huge amounts of interactive experience with these absurdities and contradictions through the teacher of mental illness that I dealt with for 15 or so years. I've had to learn to resolve the contradictions into a harmonious whole, as well, in order to heal. Necessity is the mother of invention.

Well said.

Thanks.

I agree with everything you've said here, but I put GREAT EMPHASIS on your closing paragraph.

We all lose touch with "reality" with our stupid ideas, beliefs and ridiculous justifications all the time. The problem is we're too egotistical and caught up in our "scripts" that we don't see it.

My faith or "spirituality" begins and ends here: humanity.

Whatever level of development we are at--whatever worldview we see through--we each have our own way that our spiritual capacity informs our lives.

Why don't I see you around myspace anymore?

69charger

deadnothingbetter wrote:

yeah, you're pretty out of it dude... you lack social skills or somethin....

You believe in an imaginary being who made the whole universe and everything in it (except dinosaurs because he never mentioned them to anybody), and I am the one who is "pretty out of it"? I guess I fail to see your logic.

i don't spend anytime giving my 2 cents, or brainwashing people with my beliefs, or political agendas...

Then why are you in this forum? A forum who's primary existance is exactly what you profess to not do?!

i don't claim to know more than you

Yes you do.

don't claim to be holier than you

Yes you do. By default as a believer and I as a non-believer, you think I will perish and that you will be saved.

don't claim anything.

You claim that you know God exists and what is and is not to be taken literally as the word of God. You claim a lot of things.

i only have my beliefs, and my beliefs are rightly earned at the first signs of breathe... just like you... so one more time my friend. respect my beliefs, as i respect yours.

I am not your friend just as I am not a Jihadist's friend. I think your beliefs and the millions of others who share your beliefs contribute to a system that promotes war, genocide, racism, and bigotry. So one more time... Respect is earned not a ""God" given right" and I don't respect your beliefs.

as far as i'm concerned, religion has nothing to do with my beliefs.

Do you go to Church?

soulsinging

deadnothingbetter wrote:

you say that God is powerful enough to get rid of sin if he wanted to, well, no, not really. God has never interfered with our choices, as i've said many times. since he placed a will in us to make our own decisions it's as if God's glory is perfected in our lives when we choose life, or the life that Christ came to show us. and basically, that's what the biblical God wants, to give you back the glorious life that you once had in the garden of eden... or so it goes.

read above

what do you mean?

let me get this straight... god is NOT powerful enough to forgive a sin without jesus? he lacks that power? that's one rather limited god. he can create the world but cannot forgive any human unless that human worships jesus?

either god is limited, or he CHOSE that rule which he knew would condemn billions. and you try to tell me this is love?

Collin

soulsinging wrote:

let me get this straight... god is NOT powerful enough to forgive a sin without jesus? he lacks that power? that's one rather limited god. he can create the world but cannot forgive any human unless that human worships jesus?

either god is limited, or he CHOSE that rule which he knew would condemn billions. and you try to tell me this is love?

It is love. Conditional love.

genie

cause i'm god

and everyone alse is just my mere peasant

dunkman

genie wrote:

cause i'm god

and everyone alse is just my mere peasant

you cant be because
1. that joke was shit and
2. well, i don't need a 2 because number 1 was so great


:cool: