Gun Debate

redrock

dunkman wrote:

wow.. it appears ostriches can type with their heads in the sand... :cool:

It's called touch-typing.. don't need to look at the keyboard....

know1

I didn't read the thread at all, but something has got to change. We can't have people keep doing this stuff.

I'm usually against the government legislating our lives and freedoms, but I'm not so sure that it's not time to ban handguns and automatic weapons.

I've never thought they should be banned before, but I've NEVER bought the whole "right to bear arms" argument as it is meaningless to own guns when the military has bombs, missiles and nuclear weapons.

I can also see some merit in the argument for letting more people carry concealed (or not conceales weapons), but I'm worried that might make it even easir for things like this to happen.

Pacomc79

Hey dunk, I just want to say that I appreciate yours and others input on this matter and you and other make some excellent points on the matter always. We deal with a lot of complex subjects on this board and even though I may not totally agree I understand that we all come from very different experiences and backgrounds etc so I appreciate your making me think.

jlew24asu

even flow? wrote:

Sorry for the go off.

Anyway, this is what I was getting at. Protection from? Another with a gun? If somebody dosen't have access to a gun. When they break into your house it is either man vs man or a weapon that they have to get close to you to use against whatever you have. I have noticed that people aren't quite as tough or loud when they don't have a gun at their disposal.

And yes I know you can't get rid of all the guns. Thanks.

so if you know you cant get rid of all guns, why ban them for all law abiding people? what about police? government? are they allowed to have guns and not the people? thats scary dont ya think

farfromglorified

know1 wrote:

I didn't read the thread at all, but something has got to change. We can't have people keep doing this stuff.

I'm usually against the government legislating our lives and freedoms, but I'm not so sure that it's not time to ban handguns and automatic weapons.

I've never thought they should be banned before, but I've NEVER bought the whole "right to bear arms" argument as it is meaningless to own guns when the military has bombs, missiles and nuclear weapons.

I can also see some merit in the argument for letting more people carry concealed (or not conceales weapons), but I'm worried that might make it even easir for things like this to happen.

Why do you think banning guns will prevent these actions? Guns were already banned where these actions happened.

Two Birds

I don't think the shootings in Educational facilities have anything to do with the gun controls or lack of them. I am not "pro gun". People have been shooting people for forever. I believe our society has way to much pressure and we are way to stressed. People are losing it at record rate. People are striving to be perfect in everyway. You have to have the big house, the big car, all of the toys. You have to have a girlfriend, boyfriend. You must make this much money. You must be smart. etc. etc.

Life is very hard and we need to ease up. Don't be so hard on each other. Be kind.

Peace,

dunkman

Pacomc79 wrote:

Hey dunk, I just want to say that I appreciate yours and others input on this matter and you and other make some excellent points on the matter always. We deal with a lot of complex subjects on this board and even though I may not totally agree I understand that we all come from very different experiences and backgrounds etc so I appreciate your making me think.

cheers man..

i've always loved your signature

Byrnzie

know1 wrote:

I didn't read the thread at all, but something has got to change. We can't have people keep doing this stuff.

I'm usually against the government legislating our lives and freedoms, but I'm not so sure that it's not time to ban handguns and automatic weapons.

I've never thought they should be banned before, but I've NEVER bought the whole "right to bear arms" argument as it is meaningless to own guns when the military has bombs, missiles and nuclear weapons.

I can also see some merit in the argument for letting more people carry concealed (or not conceales weapons), but I'm worried that might make it even easir for things like this to happen.

I remember watching Bowling for Columbine at a premier in London where Michael Moore was present, and he gave an hour long question and answer session after the movie. I was too hungover and nervous at the time to ask a question, despite the fact that he was standing directly in front of me as I was in the front row. Afterwards I racked my brains about what question I should have put to him. After thinking about the movie I came to the conclusion that there is more to this whole issue than guns alone. The two fella's who committed the massacre at Columbine were part of some sort of clique, which it seems is a big thing in America. People who don't quite live up to the mantle of Jock-dom are relegated to some sort of lesser level of clique at school, and subjected to a lot of abuse, whether directly, or indirectly.
What is it with this tier system of acceptability and cliquiness at U.S high schools? And what sort of pressures are people placed under at these schools? From what limited knowledge I have of American high schools from what I've seen on t.v they look nightmarish. Is it something in the way people are forced to behave, or expected to behave, and the pressures to succeed at these places that play a part in the fact that some people end up cracking and pick up guns?
I'd appreciate any Americans here helping me out on this one.

even flow?

jlew24asu wrote:

so if you know you cant get rid of all guns, why ban them for all law abiding people? what about police? government? are they allowed to have guns and not the people? thats scary dont ya think

Well we could point to the bobbies in England and guns to keep the debate going. But that would put a spin on the fact you don't need a gun to police.

I believe in nobody needs a gun. The fact that they are already producing them and selling them and now to ban them is as good as an arguement as ciggies give you cancer but they sure aren't going to stop selling them anytime soon. We know what the problem is and we won't do anything about it. The day I read on this forum that people from the States who post actually sleep with a gun near by. Speaks volumes about guns and specific societies.

farfromglorified

Two Birds wrote:

I don't think the shootings in Educational facilities have anything to do with the gun controls or lack of them. I am not "pro gun". People have been shooting people for forever. I believe our society has way to much pressure and we are way to stressed. People are losing it at record rate. People are striving to be perfect in everyway. You have to have the big house, the big car, all of the toys. You have to have a girlfriend, boyfriend. You must make this much money. You must be smart. etc. etc.

Life is very hard and we need to ease up. Don't be so hard on each other. Be kind.

Peace,

This is the wisest post I've seen on this topic from either side. Well done.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Boss302 wrote:

As someone who has had a family member commit suicide with a gun due to a shitty home life, I say go fuck yourself and your solace.
He would have done it with or without a gun. I would expect something more than off the cuff comments like that on this message board.

You are implying an unknown as reality. Lots of people make rash decisions and often regret them later.

Why make it easier? I have 2 friends that committed suicide. One with a gascan and a match in an elevator in my building, and one by jumping from the hospital roof while being treated for depression. Unfortunately evolution isn't kind or discerning.

I'm not sure what your point is other than to express anger.

Byrnzie

Two Birds wrote:

I don't think the shootings in Educational facilities have anything to do with the gun controls or lack of them. I am not "pro gun". People have been shooting people for forever. I believe our society has way to much pressure and we are way to stressed. People are losing it at record rate. People are striving to be perfect in everyway. You have to have the big house, the big car, all of the toys. You have to have a girlfriend, boyfriend. You must make this much money. You must be smart. etc. etc.

Life is very hard and we need to ease up. Don't be so hard on each other. Be kind.

Peace,

I think this post answers some of the points in my last post on this subject.

know1

farfromglorified wrote:

Why do you think banning guns will prevent these actions? Guns were already banned where these actions happened.

I don't think that. I'm WONDERING what will stop them. They are far too frequent these days and SOMETHING needs to be done. I'm open to suggestions - including making the gun laws tougher - if that's what it takes.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

fanch75 wrote:

Humor's humor (even if it's a bad attempt), but if you are being serious that you find pleasure in people taking their own lives merely because they own a gun and you disagree with gun rights, this shows what a sick, SICK individual you are. I won't say anything what else I think of you because it would get me banned.

If your political ideology fills you with that much anger and hatred, please get help.

And no I'm not a gun owner, nor have I ever shot one in my life. This has nothing to do with me. The above is just the rantings of someone with a mental illness.

There's no point in owning a gun. There really isn't. Nothing positive comes from it. Understand that much if anything.

Live and die by the sword so they say...

If you were a terrorist building bombs all day and one day you made a mistake and went poof...well that's evolution my friend.

know1

Byrnzie wrote:

I remember watching Bowling for Columbine at a premier in London where Michael Moore was present, and he gave an hour long question and answer session after the movie. I was too hungover and nervous at the time to ask a question, despite the fact that he was standing directly in front of me as I was in the front row. Afterwards I racked my brains about what question I should have put to him. After thinking about the movie I came to the conclusion that there is more to this whole issue than guns alone. The two fella's who committed the massacre at Columbine were part of some sort of clique, which it seems is a big thing in America. People who don't quite live up to the mantle of Jock-dom are relegated to some sort of lesser level of clique at school, and subjected to a lot of abuse, whether directly, or indirectly.
What is it with this tier system of acceptability and cliquiness at U.S high schools? And what sort of pressures are people placed under at these schools? From what limited knowledge I have of American high schools from what I've seen on t.v they look nightmarish. Is it something in the way people are forced to behave, or expected to behave, and the pressures to succeed at these places that play a part in the fact that some people end up cracking and pick up guns?
I'd appreciate any Americans here helping me out on this one.

It's not just high schools, though. What about the guy in the mall a little while ago? This accident happened at a college. It's definitely not solely a school issue, although there is some ties to that.

PJPOWER

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

There's no point in owning a gun. There really isn't. Nothing positive comes from it. Understand that much if anything.

Live and die by the sword so they say...

If you were a terrorist building bombs all day and one day you made a mistake and went poof...well that's evolution my friend.

False. There have been many positive experiences that have come by me owning a gun. Such as going out and shooting clay pigeons with my grandfather...........Going hunting with my friends.............Target shooting competitions..............All very positive.

redrock

PJPOWER wrote:

False. There have been many positive experiences that have come by me owning a gun. ..........Going hunting with my friends..............All very positive.

Killing animals? For sport? Defenseless animals? Very positive and fulfilling....

Boss302

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

You are implying an unknown as reality. Lots of people make rash decisions and often regret them later.

Why make it easier? I have 2 friends that committed suicide. One with a gascan and a match in an elevator in my building, and one by jumping from the hospital roof while being treated for depression. Unfortunately evolution isn't kind or discerning.

I'm not sure what your point is other than to express anger.

It's not unknown or an implication after as a family we read his note.

I also don't see the correlation to evolution. Evolution involves growth or production. If you are talking about natural selection perhaps you are right.

You're damn right it's anger, anger at callous remarks as if suicide is something to joke about.

farfromglorified

know1 wrote:

I don't think that. I'm WONDERING what will stop them. They are far too frequent these days and SOMETHING needs to be done. I'm open to suggestions - including making the gun laws tougher - if that's what it takes.

Being better people will stop them. Making better choices will stop them.

I don't see tougher gun laws accomplishing anything. They don't. Shit, we've banned murder. We have the toughest murder laws around. That doesn't stop this either.

wavin_goodbye

If Americans want to have guns, that should be fine. Provided that they use them for their proper purpose - overthrowing their government.