also i meant to say as good as your post is i'm more impressed with the actual use of bullet points... i've never seen them on this forum before :cool:
Hehe, I have the ASCII code for bullet points memorized
ALT+0149
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
As this thread so amply demonstrates, knee-jerking will never go away. Emotional reasoning is human nature, I am afraid.
And callen, take a look in the mirror. The "scared white person" is you. I don't know why you even made that remark. Inane ... I've said my piece, people aren't listening. Mission accomplished. I'll leave you to what has become a pretty fruitless discussion.
just my personal observations and the reasonings my family and freinds use to "protect" themselves.....now for me...I'm not scared...but indeed white..hence no "need" to protect myself from the boogy man.
bringing up eliminating guns isn't a "knee jerk" reaction...its the only way we'll make progress....
just my personal observations and the reasonings my family and freinds use to "protect" themselves.....now for me...I'm not scared...but indeed white..hence no "need" to protect myself from the boogy man.
bringing up eliminating guns isn't a "knee jerk" reaction...its the only way we'll make progress....
Aw, heck ... I don't think you're terrible or anything. I just get worked up by these gun debates because everyone (myself included) gets so close-minded. I don't know why a school shooting post always devolves into that. We never discuss other causes of the problem. Why can't we ever discuss mental health policy on here? I start a topic, but no one gives a shit. Its frustrating.
Guns create a distance, you may say there are other ways to kill, which is true, but with a gun it's fairly easy.
Anyway, I'm not for a total gun ban but for a very very strict law. Guns are a problem in your country and if you happen to love guns, you of all people should be prepared to take extra efforts or shouldn't complain that it would, for instance, take you 6 months to get a gun...
Instead of a war on drugs, a war on illegal guns, on people who sell them illegally...
Guns create a distance, you may say there are other ways to kill, which is true, but with a gun it's fairly easy.
Anyway, I'm not for a total gun ban but for a very very strict law. Guns are a problem in your country and if you happen to love guns, you of all people should be prepared to take extra efforts or shouldn't complain that it would, for instance, take you 6 months to get a gun...
Instead of a war on drugs, a war on illegal guns, on people who sell them illegally...
Guns are made for killing.
I am not complaining about existing laws (with one exception, the long run registry in Canada). I am arguing against a total ban.
Guns create a distance, you may say there are other ways to kill, which is true, but with a gun it's fairly easy.
Anyway, I'm not for a total gun ban but for a very very strict law. Guns are a problem in your country and if you happen to love guns, you of all people should be prepared to take extra efforts or shouldn't complain that it would, for instance, take you 6 months to get a gun...
Instead of a war on drugs, a war on illegal guns, on people who sell them illegally...
Guns are made for killing.
If you get a sample of blood that shares the same blood type as your victim. Get some horse shit, boil the shit and remove any stuff like grass from it. Mix the shit in with the blood and either inject someone with it or tip a dart with it. You can give someone tetanus which unless they've been vaccinated will die about 2 weeks later with absolutely no trace.
Alternatively you could just hit someone with your car. I mean if you didn't take the time to plan it out, because maybe you were just mad and wanted to kill them. You could beat em up until they are dead. Set their house on fire. There are a lot of ways to kill some one. From a distance you could use a bow and arrow, a nail gun, a molotov cocktail, a stick of dynomite or an IED.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
If you get a sample of blood that shares the same blood type as your victim. Get some horse shit, boil the shit and remove any stuff like grass from it. Mix the shit in with the blood and either inject someone with it or tip a dart with it. You can give someone tetanus which unless they've been vaccinated will die about 2 weeks later with absolutely no trace.
Alternatively you could just hit someone with your car. I mean if you didn't take the time to plan it out, because maybe you were just mad and wanted to kill them. You could beat em up until they are dead. Set their house on fire. There are a lot of ways to kill some one. From a distance you could use a bow and arrow, a nail gun, a molotov cocktail, a stick of dynomite or an IED.
Yes, of course but most of us don't live in a Columbo episode...
Come on, guys ... I'm not for a total ban on guns, but you have to admit that the Europeans have a point here.
Could this guy have stormed into the room with a baseball bat? Sure. Is it likely that 30 healthy teenagers could be easily subdued by one guy with a bat? No. They'd have likely overpowered him and bashed his head in.
You're also ignoring that guns make things so easy. Stabbing someone to death is a very personal act ... you need to get right up in their face, there's likely to be a struggle, you have to be strong. Same thing with bludgeoning someone to death. A guy like this likely doesn't have the balls for that sort of thing. He can be a tough guy with a gun in his hand because he doesn't even have to come into physical contact with his victims. If they make one threatening move, bang, they're dead. So yeah, theoretically he could stab them to death, but as a practical matter he'd never do it.
Another thing to consider is that there aren't a lot of accidental knifings. Gang members and drug dealers are always going to kill each other, but without guns at least they wouldn't accidentally kill some kid riding past on his bike while they're doing it.
Having said all that, I don't think it's possible to ban guns in the U.S. First, there's the constitution to be dealt with, and repealing the second amendment is simply not going to happen. Second, there are just too many of them out there, millions and millions. If you ban them, all the law-abiding citizens will turn in their guns and then we'll have a heavily armed criminal class (who obviously would NOT turn in their guns) that knows almost no one will be able to defend themselves.
I do support tightened restrictions and waiting periods. Dunky, you asked earlier if it was possible that the guy could have just bought the gun this morning. I don't know what the laws are in Colorado, but in Ohio he certainly could have. All that's required is for the gun dealer to call the FBI for a quick background check, which you will pass as long as you're not a felon and don't have a psychiatric history. You can be out the door with guns and ammo in about 10 minutes.
Hippiemom made some good points, but about the knifings ... I agree that stabbing someone to death isn't easy, per se (unless you're a psychopath). But deaths by stabbing are by no means rare. In fact, in the hospital I volunteered at in my home town, we almost never saw gunshots wounds ... We did see tons of stab wounds, though, and a few people died in the ER. Maybe in a large American city you would see more gunshot wounds, granted.
But not in all areas.
Hippiemom made some good points, but about the knifings ... I agree that stabbing someone to death isn't easy, per se (unless you're a psychopath). But deaths by stabbing are by no means rare. In fact, in the hospital I volunteered at in my home town, we almost never saw gunshots wounds ... We did see tons of stab wounds, though, and a few people died in the ER. Maybe in a large American city you would see more gunshot wounds, granted.
But not in all areas.
I know there are many guys who wouldn't be able to stab me (unless they do it from behind), but anyone can shoot me.
Stab someone 15 times and he can survive, shoot someone 15 times, well...
Anyway, hippiemom also points out that no innocent bystanders would be stabbed... which is a good point.
I can't form a decent sentense anymore, see you tomorrow people...
Anyway, hippiemom also points out that no innocent bystanders would be stabbed... which is a good point.
True, but then again, not too many innocent bystanders in gangland shootings are shot with legal firearms either. Like she pointed out, criminals will be the only people to have guns, should guns be banned. This statement has become this cheesy NRA rallying cry, but its true.
Those undecided Needn't have faith to be free
And those misguided, There was a plan for them to be
Now you got both sides Claiming killing in Gods name
But God is nowhere To be found, conveniently
I do support tightened restrictions and waiting periods. Dunky, you asked earlier if it was possible that the guy could have just bought the gun this morning. I don't know what the laws are in Colorado, but in Ohio he certainly could have. All that's required is for the gun dealer to call the FBI for a quick background check, which you will pass as long as you're not a felon and don't have a psychiatric history. You can be out the door with guns and ammo in about 10 minutes.
Wow, that's unbelievable. In North Carolina you first have to get a permit from the sheriff's office. That takes five days and you need to have 3 reference letters concerning your character. Then at the gun shop you turn in your permit and then wait 7 days for background check and the mental check (which I thought was a federal law; Brady Bill?)
I want to own a USP, a Tactical Machine Pistol, a Benelli M4 Super 90 and a Colt Carbine M4A1 for starters...
But I don't want to kill anyone, I just want to have that shit cause it's cool.
I wouldn't even care if they are replicas as long as they don't have that stupid orange tip.
Sadly I cannot even own realistic replicas in Canada.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Thats why i love this country, because i have the right to own a gun and no hippie activist can take it out of our hands..nor will they ever be able too!
People of the anti-gun crowd will never understand.
They live in an idealistic fantasy world in their mind, which tells them that if all firearms were abolished from being legally owned and carried; then no one would ever shoot each other , again. They think murder would cease to exist.
Unfortunately, the real world and human behavior clearly dictates that this country would be a much more dangerous place, if this were ever to happen.
americans have always had guns as with many other countries, although i do not condone violence i would protect my family with a gun if necessary (i have to admit i would probably aim for a non-fatal area)...people kill people, not guns...the problem is much larger than a simple fix of a gun control law taking away the guns of honest citizens who would abide...do you really think criminals are going to say "oh geez i need to turn my gun in, it isn't registered, i'm not allowed to have it" it is similar to alcohol (by the way i enjoy my rum and wine just as much as the next) alcohol kills thousands directly and indirectly every year...are we also "fuckheads" because we allow people to drink?
you must be the change you want to see in the world ~ Mahatma Gandhi
People of the anti-gun crowd will never understand.
They live in an idealistic fantasy world in their mind, which tells them that if all firearms were abolished from being legally owned and carried; then no one would ever shoot each other , again. They think murder would cease to exist.
Unfortunately, the real world and human behavior clearly dictates that this country would be a much more dangerous place, if this were ever to happen.
Oh please.
The anti-gun crowd thinks, if there are less guns or if guns are harder to get there will be less deaths by guns.
No one thinks murder would cease to exist. I do think however if you cannot own a gun legally, children of law abiding citizens wouldn't be able to shoot themselves in the face because they wouldn't have access to a gun...
The real problem is the pro-gun people, not the anti-gun people, they are afraid that tightened restrictions, waiting periods and other measures would somehow mean restrictions on their freedoms, which is of course ridiculous.
People of the anti-gun crowd will never understand.
I was anti-gun my whole life until this year. I learned some things that changed my mind.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
americans have always had guns as with many other countries, although i do not condone violence i would protect my family with a gun if necessary (i have to admit i would probably aim for a non-fatal area)...people kill people, not guns...the problem is much larger than a simple fix of a gun control law taking away the guns of honest citizens who would abide...do you really think criminals are going to say "oh geez i need to turn my gun in, it isn't registered, i'm not allowed to have it" it is similar to alcohol (by the way i enjoy my rum and wine just as much as the next) alcohol kills thousands directly and indirectly every year...are we also "fuckheads" because we allow people to drink?
Not a good comparison, imo. Unless you force people to drink alcohol, it's a personal choice. I don't think the gun shot victim chose to be shot, somebody else made that choice for him/her.
The anti-gun crowd thinks, if there are less guns or if guns are harder to get there will be less deaths by guns.
No one thinks murder would cease to exist. I do think however if you cannot own a gun legally, children of law abiding citizens wouldn't be able to shoot themselves in the face because they wouldn't have access to a gun...
The real problem is the pro-gun people, not the anti-gun people, they are afraid that tightened restrictions, waiting periods and other measures would somehow mean restrictions on their freedoms, which is of course ridiculous.
Unless you want to stop hunting kids are still going to point shotguns and rifles at each other. When I was a kid a friend pulled a shotgun on me. I also pushed my friend down a hill that was 60 degrees and lead to a river flowing into a dam. Kids do stupid things.
I don't usually buy too many statistics. This one however is about deaths and is probably pretty accurate.
These are the odds of dying if faced with those situations, of course.
Murder Demographics
Murder occurrences vary wildly among different countries and societies. In the Western world, murder rates in most countries have declined significantly during the 20th century and are now between 1-4 cases per 100,000 people per year. Murder rates in Japan and Iceland are among the lowest in the world, around 0.5; the rate of the United States is among the highest among all developed countries, around 5.5 (2004, [1]), with rates in major cities sometimes over 50 per 100,000[2]. Developing countries often have rates of 10-100 murders per 100,000 people per year.[citation needed] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_demographics
So that's a 0.0055% chance of being murdered. That includes all other kinds of murder that don't include firearms.
Well, all I have to say is the kentucky police can't spell or solve crimes. I'm guessing personal means by shit kicking. I think guns are just convenient.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
So yea, that puts the chances of being shot by a gun in kentucky at approximately 0.004%
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Unless you want to stop hunting kids are still going to point shotguns and rifles at each other. When I was a kid a friend pulled a shotgun on me. I also pushed my friend down a hill that was 60 degrees and lead to a river flowing into a dam. Kids do stupid things.
Kids are not going to point shotguns or rifles at each other if they can't get their hands on them.
americans have always had guns as with many other countries, although i do not condone violence i would protect my family with a gun if necessary (i have to admit i would probably aim for a non-fatal area)...people kill people, not guns...the problem is much larger than a simple fix of a gun control law taking away the guns of honest citizens who would abide...do you really think criminals are going to say "oh geez i need to turn my gun in, it isn't registered, i'm not allowed to have it" it is similar to alcohol (by the way i enjoy my rum and wine just as much as the next) alcohol kills thousands directly and indirectly every year...are we also "fuckheads" because we allow people to drink?
its your first post on this forum and you wasted it :(
of course the guy is to blame... he pulled the trigger!!! take away the trigger and the guy would have been shouting BANG!!! and that girl would just have a sore ear rather than be dead!!! so the gun is an integral part of the equation... so that infamous refrain of "guns dont kill people, people kill people" should actually be "people do kill people, but guns help... with no gun the person is just very pissed off"
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
See, the trouble i see it (Morning Dunkman, back again!) is that the very same gun laws which are allowing you to arm yourself to protect your family, is the very same gun laws which are allowing people to arm themselves to harm your family.
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid!
"I am a doughnut." (live - Berlin, Germany - 11/03/96)
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
Thats why i love this country, because i have the right to own a gun and no hippie activist can take it out of our hands..nor will they ever be able too!
Its my 2nd amendement right and i love it
your insane pro-right sheep bleating is becoming annoying... you bring nothing to this debate other than poor soundbites
Originally Posted by miller8966
DUnkman and push' arguments are severly flawed...no reason to argue with illogical people
really.... and what have you had to say in this entire thread
Originally Posted by miller8966
hmmm u mean bill clinton?
Originally Posted by miller8966
O so its jsut americas fault...ok i see the logic
Originally Posted by miller8966
Its not the guns fault you moron. THe gun didnt tell him to shoot kids
Originally Posted by miller8966
Explain to me how it is the guns fault? dont listen to everything micahel moore tells you
Originally Posted by miller8966
Im not gona lie man i love guns. I own an Ak 47 ( semi) and a winchester rifle, and also an AR 15. What a beauty!
funny....i havent shotten up a school yet...hmmmm
Originally Posted by miller8966
Great post...mayeb we should outlaw freedom of speech just in case someone says somethign offensive
Originally Posted by miller8966
according to dunkman when we get rid of guns we will have no one dying.....because you know before the invention fo the gun no one ever died.
Lol thank god in america we are allowed to keep our guns!
now unless you want to contribute something worthwhile get the fuck out of the thread and join the 15 year olds on the "what was Eddies best haircut" thread on the Porch
3 poor posts of inept sarcasm and thats about it... I've defecated better 'arguments' than you have posted on this thread...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Not a good comparison, imo. Unless you force people to drink alcohol, it's a personal choice. I don't think the gun shot victim chose to be shot, somebody else made that choice for him/her.
Do you believe that it was a "personal choice" of the family splattered on the road by a drunk driver? Sadly, they are dead by someone's unforced personal choice.
you must be the change you want to see in the world ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Comments
Hehe, I have the ASCII code for bullet points memorized
ALT+0149
just my personal observations and the reasonings my family and freinds use to "protect" themselves.....now for me...I'm not scared...but indeed white..hence no "need" to protect myself from the boogy man.
bringing up eliminating guns isn't a "knee jerk" reaction...its the only way we'll make progress....
Aw, heck ... I don't think you're terrible or anything. I just get worked up by these gun debates because everyone (myself included) gets so close-minded. I don't know why a school shooting post always devolves into that. We never discuss other causes of the problem. Why can't we ever discuss mental health policy on here? I start a topic, but no one gives a shit. Its frustrating.
Anyhow ... No offense meant to you or dunk.
Anyway, I'm not for a total gun ban but for a very very strict law. Guns are a problem in your country and if you happen to love guns, you of all people should be prepared to take extra efforts or shouldn't complain that it would, for instance, take you 6 months to get a gun...
Instead of a war on drugs, a war on illegal guns, on people who sell them illegally...
Guns are made for killing.
naděje umírá poslední
I am not complaining about existing laws (with one exception, the long run registry in Canada). I am arguing against a total ban.
If you get a sample of blood that shares the same blood type as your victim. Get some horse shit, boil the shit and remove any stuff like grass from it. Mix the shit in with the blood and either inject someone with it or tip a dart with it. You can give someone tetanus which unless they've been vaccinated will die about 2 weeks later with absolutely no trace.
Alternatively you could just hit someone with your car. I mean if you didn't take the time to plan it out, because maybe you were just mad and wanted to kill them. You could beat em up until they are dead. Set their house on fire. There are a lot of ways to kill some one. From a distance you could use a bow and arrow, a nail gun, a molotov cocktail, a stick of dynomite or an IED.
I just don't get why the US goverment isn't doing anything. Well I do get it, because they're morons, imo.
I could sum up hundreds of reasons why I am against guns, but I have no problem with responsible adults who own guns (to hunt or shooting range).
I do think owning a gun to protect your family is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard.
And sorry for my incoherent posts...
naděje umírá poslední
Yes, of course but most of us don't live in a Columbo episode...
naděje umírá poslední
But not in all areas.
I know there are many guys who wouldn't be able to stab me (unless they do it from behind), but anyone can shoot me.
Stab someone 15 times and he can survive, shoot someone 15 times, well...
Anyway, hippiemom also points out that no innocent bystanders would be stabbed... which is a good point.
I can't form a decent sentense anymore, see you tomorrow people...
don't shoot anyone;)
naděje umírá poslední
True, but then again, not too many innocent bystanders in gangland shootings are shot with legal firearms either. Like she pointed out, criminals will be the only people to have guns, should guns be banned. This statement has become this cheesy NRA rallying cry, but its true.
Horrible news.
Those undecided Needn't have faith to be free
And those misguided, There was a plan for them to be
Now you got both sides Claiming killing in Gods name
But God is nowhere To be found, conveniently
But You Might Die Trying
Wow, that's unbelievable. In North Carolina you first have to get a permit from the sheriff's office. That takes five days and you need to have 3 reference letters concerning your character. Then at the gun shop you turn in your permit and then wait 7 days for background check and the mental check (which I thought was a federal law; Brady Bill?)
But I don't want to kill anyone, I just want to have that shit cause it's cool.
I wouldn't even care if they are replicas as long as they don't have that stupid orange tip.
Sadly I cannot even own realistic replicas in Canada.
ooo cause your opinion matters so much........
Its my 2nd amendement right and i love it
They live in an idealistic fantasy world in their mind, which tells them that if all firearms were abolished from being legally owned and carried; then no one would ever shoot each other , again. They think murder would cease to exist.
Unfortunately, the real world and human behavior clearly dictates that this country would be a much more dangerous place, if this were ever to happen.
Oh please.
The anti-gun crowd thinks, if there are less guns or if guns are harder to get there will be less deaths by guns.
No one thinks murder would cease to exist. I do think however if you cannot own a gun legally, children of law abiding citizens wouldn't be able to shoot themselves in the face because they wouldn't have access to a gun...
The real problem is the pro-gun people, not the anti-gun people, they are afraid that tightened restrictions, waiting periods and other measures would somehow mean restrictions on their freedoms, which is of course ridiculous.
naděje umírá poslední
I was anti-gun my whole life until this year. I learned some things that changed my mind.
Not a good comparison, imo. Unless you force people to drink alcohol, it's a personal choice. I don't think the gun shot victim chose to be shot, somebody else made that choice for him/her.
naděje umírá poslední
Unless you want to stop hunting kids are still going to point shotguns and rifles at each other. When I was a kid a friend pulled a shotgun on me. I also pushed my friend down a hill that was 60 degrees and lead to a river flowing into a dam. Kids do stupid things.
I don't usually buy too many statistics. This one however is about deaths and is probably pretty accurate.
Firearm Assault: 1 in 314
Falling: 1 in 216
Suicide: 1 in 119
Motor Vehicle Accident: 1 in 84
http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm
These are the odds of dying if faced with those situations, of course.
Murder Demographics
Murder occurrences vary wildly among different countries and societies. In the Western world, murder rates in most countries have declined significantly during the 20th century and are now between 1-4 cases per 100,000 people per year. Murder rates in Japan and Iceland are among the lowest in the world, around 0.5; the rate of the United States is among the highest among all developed countries, around 5.5 (2004, [1]), with rates in major cities sometimes over 50 per 100,000[2]. Developing countries often have rates of 10-100 murders per 100,000 people per year.[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder#Murder_demographics
So that's a 0.0055% chance of being murdered. That includes all other kinds of murder that don't include firearms.
Here is a sample from http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/pdf/cr2.pdf
Circumstances
Arguement: 80
Felony Involved: 39
Lover's Quarrel: 12
Gangland: 5
Other: 73
Unkown: 62
Weapons
Firearms 171 (Handgun: 113, Shotgun: 20, Rifle: 18, Unknown: 20)
Personal: 24
Knife: 26
Other: 43
Unkown: 7
Well, all I have to say is the kentucky police can't spell or solve crimes. I'm guessing personal means by shit kicking. I think guns are just convenient.
Kids are not going to point shotguns or rifles at each other if they can't get their hands on them.
naděje umírá poslední
What for?
naděje umírá poslední
its your first post on this forum and you wasted it :(
of course the guy is to blame... he pulled the trigger!!! take away the trigger and the guy would have been shouting BANG!!! and that girl would just have a sore ear rather than be dead!!! so the gun is an integral part of the equation... so that infamous refrain of "guns dont kill people, people kill people" should actually be "people do kill people, but guns help... with no gun the person is just very pissed off"
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid!
"Behave like rock stars - not like the President." (live - Noblesville, IN - 8/17/98)
--Ed
"Yeah, I was gonna learn to play it (Breath) but somebody slipped me a bottle of viagra and was busy doing something else six times last night" (live - New York, NY - 9/10/98)
--Ed
your insane pro-right sheep bleating is becoming annoying... you bring nothing to this debate other than poor soundbites
really.... and what have you had to say in this entire thread
now unless you want to contribute something worthwhile get the fuck out of the thread and join the 15 year olds on the "what was Eddies best haircut" thread on the Porch
3 poor posts of inept sarcasm and thats about it... I've defecated better 'arguments' than you have posted on this thread...
Do you believe that it was a "personal choice" of the family splattered on the road by a drunk driver? Sadly, they are dead by someone's unforced personal choice.