ANOTHER High School shooting

rebornFixer

Are people STILL misusing stats in this thread? Good grief already. None of these figures are actually getting at the point.

Ahnimus

dunkman1974 wrote:

but the US is the only country with frivolous gun laws

in a study of the worlds 26 most developed nations this was the result:-

"The homicide rate for children in the United States was five times higher than that for children in the other 25 countries combined (2.57 per 100,000 compared with 0.51) "

thats 5 times higher than the other 25 countries COMBINED... the other 25 countries all have strong regulated handguin laws.... and the US doesnt... cant you see the pattern

I see the pattern, but I argue, when you are dealing with very small fractions and percentages, the difference looks big under certain microscopes.

For example, a 0.01% chance is ten times greater than a 0.001% chance. But the likely hood is still 1 in 1000. Your chances of being killed by a lamp or falling down stairs is greater than that.

FreeMind

dunkman1974 wrote:

wow.. for someone with Ghandi's quote as a signature isnt the irony of your pro-gun stance hitting you yet?

guns = manufactured solely for the killing of mammals, i.e. humans

knives = designed purely as a functional tool for hunting, cooking, cleaning, etc

hands = designed by the man who invented monkeys, historical acquisition

cars = designed to get us from one place to another pretty much quicker than the mode of transport that it supercedes


out of all of the above inventions/genetics... only the gun was designed with the sole use of killing humans... thats why its a pretty juvenile retort of saying "people get killed by cars, should we ban cars????" that kind of argument doesnt make sense as cars werent designed for this purpose...



also people dont get killed by cars if we follow the mantra of the NRA... its "cars dont kill people, people kill people"... :rolleyes:

"arsenic laced toast doesnt kill people, people kill people"

stupid argument isnt it?

First, i did not take a pro-gun stance in any post...in fact i do not like guns and wish they were never evented! But, they were! I did comment I would protect my family IF NECESSARY (i'm human) with a gun but not shoot to kill...did you some how miss that? Additionally, many things kill humans and other forms of life, including fishing rods, traps, and bow and arrows, and they were invented for that sole purpose. You get no argument out of me that something needs to be done but taking away guns from private law-abiding citizens is only giving criminals a free ticket. More stringent purchasing regulations is a thought but in NO WAY is enough. The bigger message is that a gun law is a treatment and society needs much more than a bandaid on the problem. We need to stop saying take away guns and turning our heads to the real problem...the real problem is we have messed up individuals, not just pissed off, in our society that need help. I believe prevention is key! We need to step up and take responsibility for today's youth...as adults we need to be better role models and hold higher standards. We need to love our children, as well as those who do not receive love from their own parents. We need to teach them peace in a world full of hate. That's where we need to start! People don't shoot people just because there is a gun in their home...they kill people by whatever means because of a much deeper issue. As far as Ghandi, a truly amazing example of love of mankind...i wish i could be so disciplined. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all were?

dunkman

FreeMind wrote:

First, i did not take a pro-gun stance in any post...in fact i do not like guns and wish they were never evented! But, they were! I did comment I would protect my family IF NECESSARY (i'm human) with a gun but not shoot to kill...did you some how miss that? Additionally, many things kill humans and other forms of life, including fishing rods, traps, and bow and arrows, and they were invented for that sole purpose. You get no argument out of me that something needs to be done but taking away guns from private law-abiding citizens is only giving criminals a free ticket. More stringent purchasing regulations is a thought but in NO WAY is enough. The bigger message is that a gun law is a treatment and society needs much more than a bandaid on the problem. We need to stop saying take away guns and turning our heads to the real problem...the real problem is we have messed up individuals, not just pissed off, in our society that need help. I believe prevention is key! We need to step up and take responsibility for today's youth...as adults we need to be better role models and hold higher standards. We need to love our children, as well as those who do not receive love from their own parents. We need to teach them peace in a world full of hate. That's where we need to start! People don't shoot people just because there is a gun in their home...they kill people by whatever means because of a much deeper issue. As far as Ghandi, a truly amazing example of love of mankind...i wish i could be so disciplined. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all were?

thats a really good post

i agree a lot with what you are saying

dunkman

Ahnimus wrote:

Your chances of being killed by a lamp or falling down stairs is greater than that.

depending on how drunk i am... the odds fluctuate then

Ahnimus

FreeMind wrote:

First, i did not take a pro-gun stance in any post...in fact i do not like guns and wish they were never evented! But, they were! I did comment I would protect my family IF NECESSARY (i'm human) with a gun but not shoot to kill...did you some how miss that? Additionally, many things kill humans and other forms of life, including fishing rods, traps, and bow and arrows, and they were invented for that sole purpose. You get no argument out of me that something needs to be done but taking away guns from private law-abiding citizens is only giving criminals a free ticket. More stringent purchasing regulations is a thought but in NO WAY is enough. The bigger message is that a gun law is a treatment and society needs much more than a bandaid on the problem. We need to stop saying take away guns and turning our heads to the real problem...the real problem is we have messed up individuals, not just pissed off, in our society that need help. I believe prevention is key! We need to step up and take responsibility for today's youth...as adults we need to be better role models and hold higher standards. We need to love our children, as well as those who do not receive love from their own parents. We need to teach them peace in a world full of hate. That's where we need to start! People don't shoot people just because there is a gun in their home...they kill people by whatever means because of a much deeper issue. As far as Ghandi, a truly amazing example of love of mankind...i wish i could be so disciplined. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all were?

First step would be to end wars. Wars always cause civil unrest.

FreeMind

Collin wrote:

True, but the cause of their death was not alcohol but someone driving drunk.
Anyway the comparison between the two cannot be made.

the cause of death was not by the gun itself but by the person who pulled the trigger, it's okay that we don't see eye-to-eye on the analogy

dunkman

callen wrote:

see the people on this board that are pro gun....can't comprehend your comments here.....you would think there would be no question and no argument....comparing 14 deaths in England to 23,000 in the US..but they won't read this...won't acknowledge it......but hey..they likely voted for Bush...."Twice".....so logic just doesn't come into play.

Now on boiling pizza..and those 14 deaths attributed to US tourists....I fell out of my chair laughing....PLEASE TELL ME THE ENGLISH DON"T Boil PIZZA!!!!!

i dont think anyone boils pizza

And Charlton Heston...he, um, yes. Yes, he's had a few run-ins with monkeys, hasn't he? Charton Heston, he did, he did Planet of the Apes, didn't he? And, umm, and he not only played the Charlton Heston role, but he was also all the monkeys, as well. That's what people don't know.
But anyway, he's head of your National Riffle Association, uhh. Because you have a gun problem, and it's because America's worked too well. You've worked too well. It was a good idea, freedom, ya know, the pursuit of freedom...happiness...pursuit of enjoyment? Happiness? The [I have no idea what he says here], I don't know, something. The pursuit of something.
But you pursue happiness. [Mimes stalking with a rifle, with American accent]
"C'mon, ya fuckin' happiness!"
*Bang!*
"I found me some happiness, I'm gonna shoot it now!"
*Bang*
"You fuckin' happiness!"
*Bang*
"You come at me with those big fuckin' eyes, and..."
*Bang!*
"Oh, shit. I shot my mother. I thought it was a deer. Oh, dear, anyway...well, we'll put some antlers on her, and do a sort of Woody Allen-type bit of stand-up."

Umm...yeah. So, umm, uhh, yeah, so, the gun control thing. 'Cause we've got no guns, Australia's got no guns, you've got 'em all. And you're the Roman Empire now, ya know, there's no other superpower, so you're just out there and we can't catch up. Europe could get there, but it'll take us a bit of time. 'Cause we had it, the British Empire, and we lost it by going "Oh, do you think so?" and, umm...a lot.
And "Oh, really? Have they?" There was a lot of that towards the end of the empire. "Are you sure?"
Umm, uhh, where the fuck...?

Oh, yeah. Charlton Heston. So, Charlton Heston, National Riffle...Rifle Association. Umm, and you have that saying, the, what is it? That "guns don't kill people, people kill people" but monkeys do, too! If they've got a gun. Without a gun, they're pretty friendly. But with a gun, they're pretty dangerous. And they wouldn't be lethal, they'd just be [mimes monkey stumbling about and firing handgun randomly] "Boomf! Ooo! Boomf! Ooo! Boomf! Ooo! Boomf! Ooo! Boomf! Ooo!"

So, what I thought, ya know, is you give a gun to a monkey, and then let him into Charlton Heston's house, and then you lock the doors and then film it through the window.
And we'll find out [sporadic applause], thank you twelve people.
But we'll find out whether, ya know, it is the gun or they might have to change the line to:
"Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do, too, brackets, if they've got a gun, close brackets."

NMyTree

FreeMind wrote:

First, i did not take a pro-gun stance in any post...in fact i do not like guns and wish they were never evented! But, they were! I did comment I would protect my family IF NECESSARY (i'm human) with a gun but not shoot to kill...did you some how miss that? Additionally, many things kill humans and other forms of life, including fishing rods, traps, and bow and arrows, and they were invented for that sole purpose. You get no argument out of me that something needs to be done but taking away guns from private law-abiding citizens is only giving criminals a free ticket. More stringent purchasing regulations is a thought but in NO WAY is enough. The bigger message is that a gun law is a treatment and society needs much more than a bandaid on the problem. We need to stop saying take away guns and turning our heads to the real problem...the real problem is we have messed up individuals, not just pissed off, in our society that need help. I believe prevention is key! We need to step up and take responsibility for today's youth...as adults we need to be better role models and hold higher standards. We need to love our children, as well as those who do not receive love from their own parents. We need to teach them peace in a world full of hate. That's where we need to start! People don't shoot people just because there is a gun in their home...they kill people by whatever means because of a much deeper issue. As far as Ghandi, a truly amazing example of love of mankind...i wish i could be so disciplined. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we all were?

I agree completely.

Last time we had the big discussion on this issue, here on thr MT, I said almost exactly the same thing. Just a few different words.

Jammin909

Jesus...people are fucking crazy.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_272173953.html

Ahnimus

Jammin909 wrote:

Jesus...people are fucking crazy.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_272173953.html

This kid used a Shotgun.