Seems what you are on about is the way some women now claims that going the way of porn is feminism and a road to power. I will join you in a general condemnation of such. But I will never go against women for doing what we (the men) supposedly do. And in such instances, the whole man/woman divide I often find devoid of interest as when it comes to personal relationships, love sex and so on, the really important parts are personalities, experience, needs physical and mentally and it goes on. Some people are too keen on dividing between the sexes even when there are more similirities than differences.
And more interestingly, if society and relationships are going to hell, it's the womens' fault, because.... why exactly? Not putting up with having to be society's glue, while we men go and have all the fun? Why do we talk about the irresponsible women, and not the at least equally irresponsible men? Because they are evolutionary designed to be dickwads? It's an underlying traditionlist moralism hypocritically pointed towards women I find distasteful. Hence my outburst.
Yes, call me a feminist sociologist sour-puss if you want to.
Peace
Dan
Nice post, Dan. I agree that going the "playing the field" route may not be the best route, for either sex, but I see no need to 'harsh' anyone who chooses this path. You noted my only concern with all of this, the idea that the reason "society and relationships are going to hell" falls solely on the woman's shoulders. We all play our part. I actually have been puzzled by all the male vs female posts lately. Like you mentioned, there are so many variables in a relationship. Focus on the common ground and enjoy the differences.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Yeah, that's what they're all doing now. :rolleyes:
Because we had rights and were valued? Just a hunch. And it is not nearly as cut and dry as that, as there are many different groupings and strategies in place for women and men actually.
and like i said, going for the equal rights was a good thing. my point was not that women shouldn't want equality, my point was that both sides should be making progress, not regressing.
Not so much enabling their "whoring" (depending on your definition of it, I guess) as defending people to choose for themselves. A return to idealized women saintlyhood in their traditional roles isn't very plausible, or in my view very desirable. And aren't they taking men's jobs and voting? Didn't get that part.
Seems what you are on about is the way some women now claims that going the way of porn is feminism and a road to power. I will join you in a general condemnation of such. But I will never go against women for doing what we (the men) supposedly do.
And more interestingly, if society and relationships are going to hell, it's the womens' fault, because.... why exactly? Not putting up with having to be society's glue, while we men go and have all the fun? Why do we talk about the irresponsible women, and not the at least equally irresponsible men? Because they are evolutionary designed to be dickwads? It's an underlying traditionlist moralism hypocritically pointed towards women I find distasteful.
then apparently you haven't read any of my comments in this thread. i oppose, like you do, the porno-feminists idea... it seems unhealthy and counter-productive to equality to me. but regardless, my point was never that women should not do this and men should. in fact, if you read my posts, i have said the exact opposite. it is not women's fault, it's the whole society. and it's not just women who shouldn't do this, i don't think men should either. it seems like an unhealthy way to live to me, mentally, emotionally, and physically. im equal opportunity, that was my first sentence in the thread: "good advice for men too." im not saying men should have fun and women keep their virginity to be good housewives. im saying it seems society has moves towards a very shallow and disposable view of sex... where your partner is no more meaningful to you than a condom or a warmer and more comfrotable sex toy. i dont think that's a good thing for anyone, men or women.
Damn you!. People are wondering what I am laughing at!
Somehow, with Fanch, it always comes back to hitting it from behind. I think we could almost make a drinking game out of it. "he said hit it from behind! Drink!"
"Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore."
If you look up the statistics, it's a staggering 8 million or so women that access internet porn every day.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Somehow, with Fanch, it always comes back to hitting it from behind. I think we could almost make a drinking game out of it. "he said hit it from behind! Drink!"
and like i said, going for the equal rights was a good thing. my point was not that women shouldn't want equality, my point was that both sides should be making progress, not regressing.
that part was just a joke
then apparently you haven't read any of my comments in this thread. i oppose, like you do, the porno-feminists idea... it seems unhealthy and counter-productive to equality to me. but regardless, my point was never that women should not do this and men should. in fact, if you read my posts, i have said the exact opposite. it is not women's fault, it's the whole society. and it's not just women who shouldn't do this, i don't think men should either. it seems like an unhealthy way to live to me, mentally, emotionally, and physically. im equal opportunity, that was my first sentence in the thread: "good advice for men too." im not saying men should have fun and women keep their virginity to be good housewives. im saying it seems society has moves towards a very shallow and disposable view of sex... where your partner is no more meaningful to you than a condom or a warmer and more comfrotable sex toy. i dont think that's a good thing for anyone, men or women.
OK, I respect that.
But my outburst wasn't aimed at you really, it was aimed at the lady that was interviewed. And I did skip some pages of this thread I must admit, but I had to comment on the original interview. And there is an ugly tendency to only look at the women on these issues.
Anyway, I'm done venting, and you are not really my target either. We cool?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Repressed ?? I'll give you repressed, you cheeky wench !!
hehe!!! So guess I hit a nerve then?
Me thinks you doth protest too much!!!
nah!! I'm kidding lucy girl!!! Just wanted to see if I could get a bite!!! And it would appear I can!!
Oh, and there's something about being called a wench that appeals to me strangely enough!
I use porn as a general "i like it" word, means many things to me, all good. Food can be porn, music definilty, pretty guitars, great tones, like me new Naughty Pussy.
Now i was thinkign No Quarter was good shaggin music, just the right speed for a slow grinding , slow building tease. Was not really referring to the cheap porn thing. Led Zep is far too good for that !!
i think your post shows less that women should be allowed to be "sluts" as it shows that men ought to rein their drives in. if one person always gets left hurt and empty and wanting more, how are one night stands a good thing? becos you got your rocks off at the expense of someone else's feelings? just seems disrespectful to me. again, i think one ought to know their honest desires and those of their partner before getting into it. otherwise, it's disrespectful to both the people involved.
ok, well I can see what you are saying ss. and I don't entirely disagree, but I will say, that each person's sexual journey is their own to decide, and it's not for me to dictate what everybody else should or shouldn't do.
so if monogamy is your deal, that's great. if meaningful sexual encounters is your deal, that's cool with me too. and if you wanna engage in meaningless sex then, that's fine with me also. I suspect like everything else, people's sexual journey changes as they experience, so perhaps learning as you go is what I would advocate. I guess I just think that some people don't always start off on the right foot and they may not always end up on the right foot but that's their journey and their choices to make.
I don't think that sex always has to meaningful to be respectful. And honesty isn't always forthcoming. Some times people are so busy lying to themselves it's unrealistic to expect them to be truthful with the people they interact with. As a few others have mentioned an individuals sexual history is their own personal journey and we should all learn to respect that and not judge people by it, because sexuality or sexual history isn't the only part of a person.
all I can say is I think casual sex is dangerous, and I must admit I hold high esteem for those who choose NOT to participate in it.. I think in all respects that those people are wise and very respectable. ( not that those who DO engage in casual sex aren't these things, just that I don't know how one could respect themselves after just dishing themselves out like a fast food platter). Anyhow I feel it is a horrid lack of self esteem that drives one to just lie down for or with another when they know nothing about the person they lie with.. it's almost as if that is their validation, ( oh this person will sleep with me I must not be that bad sorta thing..) and that TO ME ( and I streessss that this is only MY opinion) is sad.
I disagree. Sure if you are out at clubs every weekend picking up different random guys all the time that is dangerous and you probably have some serious validation issues. However, not everyone that engages in no-strings attached sex is "dishing themselves out like a fast food platter." Men have for years and years been able to sleep with women casually without anyone thinking they are dishing themselves out. It is possible to have a strong physical attraction to someone and enjoy the sex for the act itself and not for some validation that you are worthy of someone else's attention.
OK, I respect that.
But my outburst wasn't aimed at you really, it was aimed at the lady that was interviewed. And I did skip some pages of this thread I must admit, but I had to comment on the original interview. And there is an ugly tendency to only look at the women on these issues.
Anyway, I'm done venting, and you are not really my target either. We cool?
Peace
Dan
we never weren't. just wanted to explain myself. im prone to ranting myself and i agree women tend to be the only ones who spark this kind of examination, cos many people are still not comfortable with open female sexuality. thus, while someone may disagree with disposable, cheap sex, women doing it will provoke outrage while guys doing it will only provoke some eye-rolling.
ok, well I can see what you are saying ss. and I don't entirely disagree, but I will say, that each person's sexual journey is their own to decide, and it's not for me to dictate what everybody else should or shouldn't do.
so if monogamy is your deal, that's great. if meaningful sexual encounters is your deal, that's cool with me too. and if you wanna engage in meaningless sex then, that's fine with me also. I suspect like everything else, people's sexual journey changes as they experience, so perhaps learning as you go is what I would advocate. I guess I just think that some people don't always start off on the right foot and they may not always end up on the right foot but that's their journey and their choices to make.
I don't think that sex always has to meaningful to be respectful. And honesty isn't always forthcoming. Some times people are so busy lying to themselves it's unrealistic to expect them to be truthful with the people they interact with. As a few others have mentioned an individuals sexual history is their own personal journey and we should all learn to respect that and not judge people by it, because sexuality or sexual history isn't the only part of a person.
im not trying to pass judgment on anyone. but does the fact that people should learn their own journey mean we should never tell kids drugs are dangerous, cos it's their journey and they will learn from it? im not advocating regulating behavior or judging people based on it. im talking about open dialogue and encouraging healthy choices and honesty. my point was that people lie to themselves often, cos a lot of their input comes from confused adolescent friends or pop media or puritanical idelogues. when what we really need is to encourage people to talk frankly about sex and be honest with themselves about what they want from it. everyone is going to make mistakes, but that doesn't mean we can't make an effort to minimize them by talking with our friends or children about what our values truly are.
I disagree. Sure if you are out at clubs every weekend picking up different random guys all the time that is dangerous and you probably have some serious validation issues. However, not everyone that engages in no-strings attached sex is "dishing themselves out like a fast food platter." Men have for years and years been able to sleep with women casually without anyone thinking they are dishing themselves out. It is possible to have a strong physical attraction to someone and enjoy the sex for the act itself and not for some validation that you are worthy of someone else's attention.
my question is, should women thus try to be more like men, or should men try to be more like women? by saying that the only way to equality for women is to behave like men and mimic their lifestyle, you are essentially validating a patriarchal culture/value system and subjugating women to conform to male standards of sexuality, which have more to do with power dynamics than actual sexuality. you're essentially conceding that male sexuality is the only legit sexuality, you're just doing away with their restrictions on women. everyone is still adhering to male views though.
i think the wiser course is to temper and do away with the extremes of the rigid male system: either as much sex as you can get (for men) or never except for marriage (for women). your argument does nothing but cancel the second half and still subject everyone to the male vision of sexuality. what should be happening is equality: women defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires, and men defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires.
as to the subject of the article, im not convinced this is what women really want. i dont have any mathematical evidence for it, it's just observations of people i know and things i have seen. i see this push essentially as growing pains as women move towards truly equal sexuality. im also not convinced the complementary male culture is what they really want either, again based on what i have seen. i see the male culture (of date rape and alcohol induced partners) as a kind of reactive growing pain in response to fear. just like southern racists clinging to a dying way of life in the 50s, these are men trying to cling to the old boy network way of living in the face of social change. i see this all as awkward stages on the way to something better, not the end in and of itself. but if we simply accept that "ok, we're here, we're done, this is all we ever asked for and wanted" we will become complacent and stop moving forward and traditional gender roles will persist becos we never moved past them. just abolished one category and tried to squeeze everyone into the other.
are you suggesting that it is a GOOD thing that women now are getting drunk for the sole purpose of getting the courage to do something they wouldn't be willing to do otherwise? is that a healthy sexual practice?
i've always been of the mind that if you won't do it sober, you shouldn't be doing it drunk. so i cant see how this hookup culture is a positive thing. one night stands with people you met mere hours before while under the influence is a bad idea, no matter how safe you think you're being.
What happens if you are completely sober and you have casual sex?
I think it's great to have casual sex personally. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship, and I don't see why they should restrain from having sex.
Fuck buddies are great!
20/04/06 ~ 23/08/06 ~ 09/09/06
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
my question is, should women thus try to be more like men, or should men try to be more like women? by saying that the only way to equality for women is to behave like men and mimic their lifestyle, you are essentially validating a patriarchal culture/value system and subjugating women to conform to male standards of sexuality, which have more to do with power dynamics than actual sexuality. you're essentially conceding that male sexuality is the only legit sexuality, you're just doing away with their restrictions on women. everyone is still adhering to male views though.
It isn't about acting like men acting like women or vice versa. I'm just saying that people regardless of gender can make responsible, sober, unemotional decisions to have sex without being in a relationship with the other person without having low self-esteem or validation issues.
i think the wiser course is to temper and do away with the extremes of the rigid male system: either as much sex as you can get (for men) or never except for marriage (for women). your argument does nothing but cancel the second half and still subject everyone to the male vision of sexuality. what should be happening is equality: women defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires, and men defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires.
Actually that's what I'm saying too. I didn't mean that everyone should go out and just have sex with everything that walks because they "can" without judgement. I think that everyone's sexuality should be based on honesty about their own desires and respect for others. I am comfortable with the idea of casual sex but I haven't had sex in about a year because I won't go out and just pick someone up at a bar. For me casual is more about not being involved in a "relationship" than just taking home people from bars.
What happens if you are completely sober and you have casual sex?
I think it's great to have casual sex personally. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship, and I don't see why they should restrain from having sex.
Fuck buddies are great!
*sigh*
as i've stated repeatedly, there is a large difference between casual sex/fuck buddies/friends with benefits and drunken one night stands with strangers.
It isn't about acting like men acting like women or vice versa. I'm just saying that people regardless of gender can make responsible, sober, unemotional decisions to have sex without being in a relationship with the other person without having low self-esteem or validation issues.
Actually that's what I'm saying too. I didn't mean that everyone should go out and just have sex with everything that walks because they "can" without judgement. I think that everyone's sexuality should be based on honesty about their own desires and respect for others. I am comfortable with the idea of casual sex but I haven't had sex in about a year because I won't go out and just pick someone up at a bar. For me casual is more about not being involved in a "relationship" than just taking home people from bars.
then what is the issue here? this is exactly what i've been saying since page one. i've admitted my subject line was misleading. im talking about hookup culture... going home with total strangers you meet at the bar or whatever. i was not implying you should never have sex outside of a relationship or you're a whore. i see nothing wrong with responsible and honest decisions to engage in casual sex. it's not the lifestyle i want anymore, but if other people enjoy it, more power to them. it's the fucking total strangers that seems ridiculous to me, for men or women.
Someone mentioned low self esteem here.
I have met one young lady who fucked absolutely everything that moved, except that she was a pretty big girl, so I think that mostly they just lay squashed flat while she fucked them. I thought at the time that she had serious self-esteem issues whish she was try to assauge by proving herself desirable. (sex addict, if you like)
However, I really find she was an exceptional case, and in the group of ten or so that hung out, she was the only one who did this, even though most of them had sex when it suited them. They were on working ( i mistyped that "woring", before i corrected it) holiday, and they all drank a LOT, etc, but she was the only one with those characteristics.
as i've stated repeatedly, there is a large difference between casual sex/fuck buddies/friends with benefits and drunken one night stands with strangers.
a one night stand with a stranger, in and of itslef, is not the problem. in fact, unless done over and over...i think it one of the easiest and least likely to cause harm scenarios. in fact, in my lifetime, i have only had one *pure* one night stand...and it was easy, and exactly what we both wanted/expected......sex, pure and simple. it is actually when done with someone i care about, even 'just friends'...that difficulties arose. inevitably, someone always wants 'more'...whether the male or the female....complications. or simply, i guess some degree of regret....along the lines of 'what was i thinking?'...hahaha...but evenso, if physically satisfying, or met some 'need'....no biggie.
perhaps far too many are not honest with themselves, or their partners...to truly express what the WANT. one should not go into a one night stand with any expectation beyond sexual gratification. this should feel like using someone, if it is mutual. beyond that, it does indeed get complicated...but male/female relations usually do if it is anything beyond physical. i have experienced personally the full gamut of emitions, and sure.....it CAN hurt. however, i will take the hurt...b/c it means i feel, i am alive, and i care. and sure, sometimes one needs to get laid. honesty and communication is ALWAYS where it should be at...and we humans, male and female a like...fall short often on that. it is what it is. so no, i don't think women should try to be like men, or vice versa...i just think people should try to be real, and most importantly, honest with themselves. probably the hardest thing to do.
we ALL get hurt, we simply hurt b/c we lay ourselves bare. this can occur with casual sex...with longterm relationships...with anytime we open ourselves to someone outside ourselves. as much as it pains me, i WILL take it, time and again...b/c it is worth it to me. and sure....LOVE is where it's at, always, first and foremost...but sure....sometimes....'for now sex' works wonders. i'd far prefer sex with love....love with sex....but we can't always get what we want. so sure, i am all for sharing info...but we all need to wanlk our own road when it comes to sex and love...and there's no one right way.
decides2dream, I swear, were I single
Lovely post.
But ss, dont you think you may be overestimating the importance and prevalence of this "hook-up culture"? This thread did start with a reactionary woman lamenting general moral decay of society (while being a hypocrite). It's not hard to misunderstand your intent from there.
And indeed, if you exclude fuck friends and the not-exactly-serious relationships, then honestly, I dont think there is much left, far less to be called a "culture" if it's just something that people may do a couple of times in their lifetimes.
I could go on, but d2d said it for me already.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
decides2dream, I swear, were I single
Lovely post.
But ss, dont you think you may be overestimating the importance and prevalence of this "hook-up culture"? This thread did start with a reactionary woman lamenting general moral decay of society (while being a hypocrite). It's not hard to misunderstand your intent from there.
And indeed, if you exclude fuck friends and the not-exactly-serious relationships, then honestly, I dont think there is much left, far less to be called a "culture" if it's just something that people may do a couple of times in their lifetimes.
I could go on, but d2d said it for me already.
Peace
Dan
i dont think im over-estimating it and i don't see much hypocrisy in the article. there might be a judgment call or two being made, but there is a clear distinction between what the author admitted to doing and what she is bemoaning. anyway, i think this is increasingly prevalent. again, i have no numbers. it's just a culture i've seen firsthand. in my neighborhood, my friends and their friends, even my cousins in high school now. i know far too many people who don't just do this once or twice... they go out every weekend to find someone, take them home, fuck them, and never speak again. the subject of the article was a girl who was averaging fucking a different STRANGER every other week. i know many who do it every weekend at least. that's just plain stupid. it's quite common in the 20s set... they act like it's a rite of passage. go on spring break and sleep with as many strangers as you can in a week, get your post-grad job and go out every weekend and try to score somebody new each time. like it's all just fun and games before settling down.
to an extent, maybe it is. but it's a dangerous game. i've said before my issue is less the sex itself as the sense i get that people are unaware of the toll it is taking on them. a lot of people dabble in drugs thinking it's just youthful having fun and end up with serious problems with lifelong consequences. this can be the same way. if it's a way to avoid dealing with personal issues, they will rear up. if you catch an std, that carries with you. one condom break can change your life. it's risky behavior to be doing on a regular basis. no, not everybody is doing it. but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about, especially since this seems to be a lifestyle that is increasing in popularity, not declining or stabilizing. i think it's an unwise one, so im speaking out against it. im not proposing any laws, just saying im of the belief that people ought to think long and hard about whether or not this is really how they want to live.
Well, until I see some numbers corroborating this claim of it's widespread appliance, I am not too worried.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I actually read this q & a in glamour magazine. Very interesting indeed. Now grant you I'm no prude but it's appalling how women that are 10 years younger then me most likely has double the sexual partners I've had. This whole "friends with benefits" thing...I don't get it. If you want to get your rocks off just buy a vibrator..have some respect for yourselves...Of course guys will fuck anything that walks..but is he really going to want to marry someone who screwed a million people? and if so would you want to be with someone like that?
These cuts are leaving creases. Trace the scars to fit the pieces, to tell the story, you don't need to say a word.
i dont think im over-estimating it and i don't see much hypocrisy in the article. there might be a judgment call or two being made, but there is a clear distinction between what the author admitted to doing and what she is bemoaning. anyway, i think this is increasingly prevalent. again, i have no numbers. it's just a culture i've seen firsthand. in my neighborhood, my friends and their friends, even my cousins in high school now. i know far too many people who don't just do this once or twice... they go out every weekend to find someone, take them home, fuck them, and never speak again. the subject of the article was a girl who was averaging fucking a different STRANGER every other week. i know many who do it every weekend at least. that's just plain stupid. it's quite common in the 20s set... they act like it's a rite of passage. go on spring break and sleep with as many strangers as you can in a week, get your post-grad job and go out every weekend and try to score somebody new each time. like it's all just fun and games before settling down.
to an extent, maybe it is. but it's a dangerous game. i've said before my issue is less the sex itself as the sense i get that people are unaware of the toll it is taking on them. a lot of people dabble in drugs thinking it's just youthful having fun and end up with serious problems with lifelong consequences. this can be the same way. if it's a way to avoid dealing with personal issues, they will rear up. if you catch an std, that carries with you. one condom break can change your life. it's risky behavior to be doing on a regular basis. no, not everybody is doing it. but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about, especially since this seems to be a lifestyle that is increasing in popularity, not declining or stabilizing. i think it's an unwise one, so im speaking out against it. im not proposing any laws, just saying im of the belief that people ought to think long and hard about whether or not this is really how they want to live.
Very well said. I keep finding myself agreeing more and more with the viewpoints you've been posting in this thread. I think kind of the same, but just have trouble explaining it like you have been doing.
Well, until I see some numbers corroborating this claim of it's widespread appliance, I am not too worried.
Peace
Dan
what kind of numbers would you want? how many women are going to own up in a survey to fucking 10 different guys a month? and you know the guys in the survey would say they screwed 50 women in that time
I actually read this q & a in glamour magazine. Very interesting indeed. Now grant you I'm no prude but it's appalling how women that are 10 years younger then me most likely has double the sexual partners I've had. This whole "friends with benefits" thing...I don't get it. If you want to get your rocks off just buy a vibrator..have some respect for yourselves...Of course guys will fuck anything that walks..but is he really going to want to marry someone who screwed a million people? and if so would you want to be with someone like that?
Nice stereotype "Guys will fuck anything that walks"
That is a cultural stereotype and I don't agree with it. Being a man that has had less partners than all the girls I've ever slept with.
I've had 9 partners. The last person I was with had like 25.
This super hot redheaded nymphomaniac kept harassing me to have nasty sex with her, no word of a lie. She worked with my dad and gave him a condom to give me to "use on her" and she called on my birthday saying "Your Dad said it's your birthday. I got a present for you, let me know when to deliver it." and I replied "I think my father knows me well enough to tell you I wouldn't be interested, but in-case he didn't, I'm really not interested. Sorry."
But then if you go out to a bar, what do you expect to find? I'm not an anomoly, but guys like me go to the bar maybe once a month. I haven't been in almost a year. I'm 25 now and my perspective has changed after a few relationships that started mostly on sex and developed into some kind of fucked up love/hate relationship. I'd abstain from dating and sex for years at a time, waiting for "the one" and she never happened. I'd end up getting into these crappy relationships because I was lonely and dying for sex. I figure it's better to have casual sex while waiting for Mrs. Right. And all this crap about harming your body is absolute rubbish. Sex is good for the body and mind, you just have to be cautious of disease which is preventable. It's the unexpected episodes of lust out of loneliness that lead to unprotected sex.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
what kind of numbers would you want? how many women are going to own up in a survey to fucking 10 different guys a month? and you know the guys in the survey would say they screwed 50 women in that time
Nice stereotype "Guys will fuck anything that walks"
That is a cultural stereotype and I don't agree with it. Being a man that has had less partners than all the girls I've ever slept with.
I've had 9 partners. The last person I was with had like 25.
This super hot redheaded nymphomaniac kept harassing me to have nasty sex with her, no word of a lie. She worked with my dad and gave him a condom to give me to "use on her" and she called on my birthday saying "Your Dad said it's your birthday. I got a present for you, let me know when to deliver it." and I replied "I think my father knows me well enough to tell you I wouldn't be interested, but in-case he didn't, I'm really not interested. Sorry."
dude, you're a fucking idiot for passing up freaky sex with a hot redhead. give her my number.
i dont think i could marry a girl with twice as many partners as me.
dude, you're a fucking idiot for passing up freaky sex with a hot redhead. give her my number.
i dont think i could marry a girl with twice as many partners as me.
Haha, I don't know her anymore. Besides she hooked up with a guy I knew. I'm trying to get to know this redhead now, I got a damn thing for redheads man. Every time I see this girl I actually feel something, lol. I've talked to her a couple times now, but I'm like 7 years older than her, but she doesn't seem to care.
Today I went to the restaurant she works at and read my horoscope on one of those coffee time things. It read "If you are attempting romance this week, the intended person is in a good mood." or something like that. So I asked her "Are you in a good mood?" and she said "Kind of" so I told her what the horoscope read and she said "If you come back tomorrow I'll be in a better mood". Even though I want to do her really bad. I feel like I'd be violating her in some way.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Nice post, Dan. I agree that going the "playing the field" route may not be the best route, for either sex, but I see no need to 'harsh' anyone who chooses this path. You noted my only concern with all of this, the idea that the reason "society and relationships are going to hell" falls solely on the woman's shoulders. We all play our part. I actually have been puzzled by all the male vs female posts lately. Like you mentioned, there are so many variables in a relationship. Focus on the common ground and enjoy the differences.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
and like i said, going for the equal rights was a good thing. my point was not that women shouldn't want equality, my point was that both sides should be making progress, not regressing.
that part was just a joke
then apparently you haven't read any of my comments in this thread. i oppose, like you do, the porno-feminists idea... it seems unhealthy and counter-productive to equality to me. but regardless, my point was never that women should not do this and men should. in fact, if you read my posts, i have said the exact opposite. it is not women's fault, it's the whole society. and it's not just women who shouldn't do this, i don't think men should either. it seems like an unhealthy way to live to me, mentally, emotionally, and physically. im equal opportunity, that was my first sentence in the thread: "good advice for men too." im not saying men should have fun and women keep their virginity to be good housewives. im saying it seems society has moves towards a very shallow and disposable view of sex... where your partner is no more meaningful to you than a condom or a warmer and more comfrotable sex toy. i dont think that's a good thing for anyone, men or women.
Somehow, with Fanch, it always comes back to hitting it from behind. I think we could almost make a drinking game out of it. "he said hit it from behind! Drink!"
10/21/06 & 10/22/06 (Bridge Shows)
you've picked up on a lot in your 286 posts!
But my outburst wasn't aimed at you really, it was aimed at the lady that was interviewed. And I did skip some pages of this thread I must admit, but I had to comment on the original interview. And there is an ugly tendency to only look at the women on these issues.
Anyway, I'm done venting, and you are not really my target either. We cool?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
It seems it was more a topless boxer sparring with the kilted ref!!
I mean I wasn't really about, or topless, or boxing for that matter!!!
hehe!!!
Me thinks you doth protest too much!!!
nah!! I'm kidding lucy girl!!!
Oh, and there's something about being called a wench that appeals to me strangely enough!
Oh and I agree completely about No Quarter.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
ok, well I can see what you are saying ss. and I don't entirely disagree, but I will say, that each person's sexual journey is their own to decide, and it's not for me to dictate what everybody else should or shouldn't do.
so if monogamy is your deal, that's great. if meaningful sexual encounters is your deal, that's cool with me too. and if you wanna engage in meaningless sex then, that's fine with me also. I suspect like everything else, people's sexual journey changes as they experience, so perhaps learning as you go is what I would advocate. I guess I just think that some people don't always start off on the right foot and they may not always end up on the right foot but that's their journey and their choices to make.
I don't think that sex always has to meaningful to be respectful. And honesty isn't always forthcoming. Some times people are so busy lying to themselves it's unrealistic to expect them to be truthful with the people they interact with. As a few others have mentioned an individuals sexual history is their own personal journey and we should all learn to respect that and not judge people by it, because sexuality or sexual history isn't the only part of a person.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I disagree. Sure if you are out at clubs every weekend picking up different random guys all the time that is dangerous and you probably have some serious validation issues. However, not everyone that engages in no-strings attached sex is "dishing themselves out like a fast food platter." Men have for years and years been able to sleep with women casually without anyone thinking they are dishing themselves out. It is possible to have a strong physical attraction to someone and enjoy the sex for the act itself and not for some validation that you are worthy of someone else's attention.
we never weren't. just wanted to explain myself. im prone to ranting myself
im not trying to pass judgment on anyone. but does the fact that people should learn their own journey mean we should never tell kids drugs are dangerous, cos it's their journey and they will learn from it? im not advocating regulating behavior or judging people based on it. im talking about open dialogue and encouraging healthy choices and honesty. my point was that people lie to themselves often, cos a lot of their input comes from confused adolescent friends or pop media or puritanical idelogues. when what we really need is to encourage people to talk frankly about sex and be honest with themselves about what they want from it. everyone is going to make mistakes, but that doesn't mean we can't make an effort to minimize them by talking with our friends or children about what our values truly are.
my question is, should women thus try to be more like men, or should men try to be more like women? by saying that the only way to equality for women is to behave like men and mimic their lifestyle, you are essentially validating a patriarchal culture/value system and subjugating women to conform to male standards of sexuality, which have more to do with power dynamics than actual sexuality. you're essentially conceding that male sexuality is the only legit sexuality, you're just doing away with their restrictions on women. everyone is still adhering to male views though.
i think the wiser course is to temper and do away with the extremes of the rigid male system: either as much sex as you can get (for men) or never except for marriage (for women). your argument does nothing but cancel the second half and still subject everyone to the male vision of sexuality. what should be happening is equality: women defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires, and men defining their own sexuality tempered by respect for others and honesty about their own desires.
as to the subject of the article, im not convinced this is what women really want. i dont have any mathematical evidence for it, it's just observations of people i know and things i have seen. i see this push essentially as growing pains as women move towards truly equal sexuality. im also not convinced the complementary male culture is what they really want either, again based on what i have seen. i see the male culture (of date rape and alcohol induced partners) as a kind of reactive growing pain in response to fear. just like southern racists clinging to a dying way of life in the 50s, these are men trying to cling to the old boy network way of living in the face of social change. i see this all as awkward stages on the way to something better, not the end in and of itself. but if we simply accept that "ok, we're here, we're done, this is all we ever asked for and wanted" we will become complacent and stop moving forward and traditional gender roles will persist becos we never moved past them. just abolished one category and tried to squeeze everyone into the other.
I pay attention... and I'm a part-time lurker
10/21/06 & 10/22/06 (Bridge Shows)
What happens if you are completely sober and you have casual sex?
I think it's great to have casual sex personally. Not everyone wants to be in a relationship, and I don't see why they should restrain from having sex.
Fuck buddies are great!
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
Rockin' out to Creadles
It isn't about acting like men acting like women or vice versa. I'm just saying that people regardless of gender can make responsible, sober, unemotional decisions to have sex without being in a relationship with the other person without having low self-esteem or validation issues.
Actually that's what I'm saying too. I didn't mean that everyone should go out and just have sex with everything that walks because they "can" without judgement. I think that everyone's sexuality should be based on honesty about their own desires and respect for others. I am comfortable with the idea of casual sex but I haven't had sex in about a year because I won't go out and just pick someone up at a bar. For me casual is more about not being involved in a "relationship" than just taking home people from bars.
*sigh*
as i've stated repeatedly, there is a large difference between casual sex/fuck buddies/friends with benefits and drunken one night stands with strangers.
then what is the issue here? this is exactly what i've been saying since page one. i've admitted my subject line was misleading. im talking about hookup culture... going home with total strangers you meet at the bar or whatever. i was not implying you should never have sex outside of a relationship or you're a whore. i see nothing wrong with responsible and honest decisions to engage in casual sex. it's not the lifestyle i want anymore, but if other people enjoy it, more power to them. it's the fucking total strangers that seems ridiculous to me, for men or women.
I have met one young lady who fucked absolutely everything that moved, except that she was a pretty big girl, so I think that mostly they just lay squashed flat while she fucked them. I thought at the time that she had serious self-esteem issues whish she was try to assauge by proving herself desirable. (sex addict, if you like)
However, I really find she was an exceptional case, and in the group of ten or so that hung out, she was the only one who did this, even though most of them had sex when it suited them. They were on working ( i mistyped that "woring", before i corrected it) holiday, and they all drank a LOT, etc, but she was the only one with those characteristics.
a one night stand with a stranger, in and of itslef, is not the problem. in fact, unless done over and over...i think it one of the easiest and least likely to cause harm scenarios. in fact, in my lifetime, i have only had one *pure* one night stand...and it was easy, and exactly what we both wanted/expected......sex, pure and simple. it is actually when done with someone i care about, even 'just friends'...that difficulties arose. inevitably, someone always wants 'more'...whether the male or the female....complications. or simply, i guess some degree of regret....along the lines of 'what was i thinking?'...hahaha...but evenso, if physically satisfying, or met some 'need'....no biggie.
perhaps far too many are not honest with themselves, or their partners...to truly express what the WANT. one should not go into a one night stand with any expectation beyond sexual gratification. this should feel like using someone, if it is mutual. beyond that, it does indeed get complicated...but male/female relations usually do if it is anything beyond physical. i have experienced personally the full gamut of emitions, and sure.....it CAN hurt. however, i will take the hurt...b/c it means i feel, i am alive, and i care. and sure, sometimes one needs to get laid. honesty and communication is ALWAYS where it should be at...and we humans, male and female a like...fall short often on that. it is what it is. so no, i don't think women should try to be like men, or vice versa...i just think people should try to be real, and most importantly, honest with themselves. probably the hardest thing to do.
we ALL get hurt, we simply hurt b/c we lay ourselves bare. this can occur with casual sex...with longterm relationships...with anytime we open ourselves to someone outside ourselves. as much as it pains me, i WILL take it, time and again...b/c it is worth it to me. and sure....LOVE is where it's at, always, first and foremost...but sure....sometimes....'for now sex' works wonders. i'd far prefer sex with love....love with sex....but we can't always get what we want.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Lovely post.
But ss, dont you think you may be overestimating the importance and prevalence of this "hook-up culture"? This thread did start with a reactionary woman lamenting general moral decay of society (while being a hypocrite). It's not hard to misunderstand your intent from there.
And indeed, if you exclude fuck friends and the not-exactly-serious relationships, then honestly, I dont think there is much left, far less to be called a "culture" if it's just something that people may do a couple of times in their lifetimes.
I could go on, but d2d said it for me already.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
i dont think im over-estimating it and i don't see much hypocrisy in the article. there might be a judgment call or two being made, but there is a clear distinction between what the author admitted to doing and what she is bemoaning. anyway, i think this is increasingly prevalent. again, i have no numbers. it's just a culture i've seen firsthand. in my neighborhood, my friends and their friends, even my cousins in high school now. i know far too many people who don't just do this once or twice... they go out every weekend to find someone, take them home, fuck them, and never speak again. the subject of the article was a girl who was averaging fucking a different STRANGER every other week. i know many who do it every weekend at least. that's just plain stupid. it's quite common in the 20s set... they act like it's a rite of passage. go on spring break and sleep with as many strangers as you can in a week, get your post-grad job and go out every weekend and try to score somebody new each time. like it's all just fun and games before settling down.
to an extent, maybe it is. but it's a dangerous game. i've said before my issue is less the sex itself as the sense i get that people are unaware of the toll it is taking on them. a lot of people dabble in drugs thinking it's just youthful having fun and end up with serious problems with lifelong consequences. this can be the same way. if it's a way to avoid dealing with personal issues, they will rear up. if you catch an std, that carries with you. one condom break can change your life. it's risky behavior to be doing on a regular basis. no, not everybody is doing it. but that doesn't mean it's not worth talking about, especially since this seems to be a lifestyle that is increasing in popularity, not declining or stabilizing. i think it's an unwise one, so im speaking out against it. im not proposing any laws, just saying im of the belief that people ought to think long and hard about whether or not this is really how they want to live.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Very well said. I keep finding myself agreeing more and more with the viewpoints you've been posting in this thread. I think kind of the same, but just have trouble explaining it like you have been doing.
what kind of numbers would you want? how many women are going to own up in a survey to fucking 10 different guys a month? and you know the guys in the survey would say they screwed 50 women in that time
Nice stereotype "Guys will fuck anything that walks"
That is a cultural stereotype and I don't agree with it. Being a man that has had less partners than all the girls I've ever slept with.
I've had 9 partners. The last person I was with had like 25.
This super hot redheaded nymphomaniac kept harassing me to have nasty sex with her, no word of a lie. She worked with my dad and gave him a condom to give me to "use on her" and she called on my birthday saying "Your Dad said it's your birthday. I got a present for you, let me know when to deliver it." and I replied "I think my father knows me well enough to tell you I wouldn't be interested, but in-case he didn't, I'm really not interested. Sorry."
But then if you go out to a bar, what do you expect to find? I'm not an anomoly, but guys like me go to the bar maybe once a month. I haven't been in almost a year. I'm 25 now and my perspective has changed after a few relationships that started mostly on sex and developed into some kind of fucked up love/hate relationship. I'd abstain from dating and sex for years at a time, waiting for "the one" and she never happened. I'd end up getting into these crappy relationships because I was lonely and dying for sex. I figure it's better to have casual sex while waiting for Mrs. Right. And all this crap about harming your body is absolute rubbish. Sex is good for the body and mind, you just have to be cautious of disease which is preventable. It's the unexpected episodes of lust out of loneliness that lead to unprotected sex.
i can't say what i was gonna say. sorry. no edit.
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2008: MSG 1, Hartford, Mansfield 2, Ed Solo NYC 1
2009: London (O2), Philly 1, 2, 3, & 4
2010: Hartford, Boston, MSG 1 & 2
2011: Ed Solo Hartford
2012: Philly (MIA Fest)
2013: Worcester 2, Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford
dude, you're a fucking idiot for passing up freaky sex with a hot redhead. give her my number.
i dont think i could marry a girl with twice as many partners as me.
Haha, I don't know her anymore. Besides she hooked up with a guy I knew. I'm trying to get to know this redhead now, I got a damn thing for redheads man. Every time I see this girl I actually feel something, lol. I've talked to her a couple times now, but I'm like 7 years older than her, but she doesn't seem to care.
Today I went to the restaurant she works at and read my horoscope on one of those coffee time things. It read "If you are attempting romance this week, the intended person is in a good mood." or something like that. So I asked her "Are you in a good mood?" and she said "Kind of" so I told her what the horoscope read and she said "If you come back tomorrow I'll be in a better mood". Even though I want to do her really bad. I feel like I'd be violating her in some way.