I'm sitting in a Pro Life meeting right now...

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drsluggo wrote:

Your use of the word "debate" is a misnomer then because what you call a debate is "hey, i'm going to frame the world according to my view."

The real truth here is that pro-choice/pro-abortion people say the issue is the womens choice of killing what she started in her body (yeah, I'm throwing my bias in here since everyone else is).

The anti-choice/anti-abortion people say the issue is that if the child is alive in the womb than its essentially murder. It's as much a choice as walking down the street killing people...

And I LOVE how you want to use anti-choice but would probably scream bloody murder when someone says its not pro-choice but pro-baby murder.

ps. why is this thread still here? It has as much to do with Pearl Jam as my dogs stool. I'd be happy to post threads on that too, if you'd all like.

The pro-life/anti-choice/anti-abortion/whatever people can think abortion is murder all they want, but it's not until they start trying to take away women's choice that it becomes an issue. That's why I say it's choice that's the issue. Seems pretty simple.

p.s. If it disturbs you so much that this thread is here, why do you keep coming back to it?

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drsluggo wrote:

Spoken as a true liberal I guess - there's no need for personal responsibility...

Wow... that is such an awful statement I can't quite figure out how to respond.

Yes, some fetuses/embryos will die from miscarriages, etc. But that's like saying since millions die from cancer we should just go around killing people.

Only in an Obamatopia, I guess.

See, this is my point right here. You implied that "protecting" a fetus is a form of personal responsibility, you said my statement (which was actually a question) was awful, you made an analogy between miscarriage and cancer, and you took a jab at Obama - but you didn't even try to answer my question. It's a serious question. Please let me know if/when you can figure out how to respond.

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PJBuckeye wrote:

Ya, how crazy? We should kill the innocent, save the guilty! That makes even more sense. While we are at it why don't we set free the guilty and let them kill children. You are so right, a pro death society would be great.

On second thought, why don't we embrace what is good in this world? This would be life. Abortion and the death penalty are both EVIL. The Pro life/ pro death penalty people are half wrong, just like you.

Please justify your assertion that life is inherently what's good in this world.

writersu

SoMuchClearer wrote:

I'm typing this from my iPhone.

I'm an audio engineer and starting today I'll be recording and mixing a conference for the Catholic Diocese on PRO LIFE in Philadelphia.

Ugh... It's gonna be a long weekend! What an "abortion" this show is gonna be! (sorry couldn't resist)

Regardless of your belief, please don't bombard me with political commentary.

Just wanted to say that it brings mr back to MTV Unplugged... I think I'll scribe "PRO-CHOICE" in my forearm with a sharpie and then pretend to be Superman while I lay on my bar stool!

I love that clip!! I showed my kids it and they thought Eddie was nuts but what the hell do they know? THEY DID NOT INVENT COOLNESS ALTHOUGH THEY THINK THEY HAVE...................

but on the flipside, poor you..........

bootlegger10

So, from all this I gather the majority of abortions are triggered by rape?

Vedderlution_Baby

In regards to the original poster:

Sitting in physics class senior year and my teacher somehow ends up on the topic of abortion (no idea how....) and she starts telling us how anyone who supports it are murders, blah blah blah. So I get more and more pissed off. Finally I grab a friends marker, slung off the flannel and wrote "Pro choice" down my arm. My teacher and I then had a staring contest where we tried to kill each other with our minds.


Looking back, I guess I could've gotten into a lot of trouble over the whole thing. But fuck it.

Dylan Stone

bootlegger10 wrote:

So, from all this I gather the majority of abortions are triggered by rape?

No. But when someone disputes the prevalence of sexual assaults...and calls the stats FEMINAZI PROPAGANDA... It kind of gets your guard up if you're a woman...

Vedderlution_Baby

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

No. But when someone disputes the prevalence of sexual assaults...and calls the stats FEMINAZI PROPAGANDA... It kind of gets your guard up if you're a woman...

Or a man.

bootlegger10

So you abortion rights folks really don't have a probably with gruesomely killing a human fetus that can feel pain? I bet if we put makeup on a monkey you would be up in arms. Hmmn...this me-first society is great.

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bootlegger10 wrote:

So you abortion rights folks really don't have a probably with gruesomely killing a human fetus that can feel pain? I bet if we put makeup on a monkey you would be up in arms. Hmmn...this me-first society is great.

The vast majority of aborted fetuses can't feel pain. So if that's your only problem, it's all good!

Dylan Stone

bootlegger10 wrote:

So you abortion rights folks really don't have a probably with gruesomely killing a human fetus that can feel pain? I bet if we put makeup on a monkey you would be up in arms. Hmmn...this me-first society is great.

You like make-up?

PJBuckeye

scb wrote:

Please justify your assertion that life is inherently what's good in this world.

If you don't find life as a wonderful, precious thing, then I have pitty for you.

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nathanastin wrote:

First off, I do not bring my political views into the classroom as liberals everywhere do.

I didn’t ask whether you brought your political views into the classroom, nor did I ask whether liberals do. I asked if you brought into your classroom the same kind of misinformation, hatred, and close-mindedness you spouted off in your previous post. I think it would be difficult to hide that kind of attitude.

nathanastin wrote:

Second, there is no hate in my views, just common sense. The abortion movement has nothing to do with taking away choice from women. What about the choice of the child that was conceived by someone's immature actions?

I guess I don’t know what’s in your heart, so I may have to take your word for it when you say you are not hateful. But your comments about suffering and Nazi’s, etc. seemed hateful to me. That and, as someone else has already mentioned, some of your posts in other threads.

But please elaborate on this common sense of yours.

And what about the choice of the child? Fetuses have no free will, so they are not capable of making this choice one way or the other – it’s not that their choice has been taken from them. What makes you think they would “choose life” anyway? How could you possibly have any more insight into the choice of a fetus than the rest of us?

Regarding your assertion that these fetuses were conceived by someone’s immature actions, please define immature and then provide data to back up your claim that this is what caused the conception of the would-be (or have-been) aborted fetuses.

nathanastin wrote:

Thirdly, feminazis is a common expression; I'm not saying they are like nazis, but we all know tons of them are against men in any form.

This is just silly. If you’re not willing to stand behind the meaning of the word you used, then don’t use it. Seems kind of cowardly to me to use such a strong word and then try to hide behind your assertion that it’s a common expression so that absolves you of your guilt in using it. Of course, you haven’t even demonstrated that it is a common expression, nor that “tons of them are against men in any form”. (What does that even mean?)

nathanastin wrote:

Fourthly, I have studied the issues over many years and have come to these conclusions. Typical argument from liberals: if you do not agree with them then you are hate-filled and close-minded. I am so sick and tired of this crap. Liberals taught free speech, but they are completely against it when it comes from a different side.

I don’t know what you mean by “studied the issues,” but I think it’s great that you’ve actually looked into it. I'd like to discuss what you actually learned, and not just hear a bunch of generalizations.

For the record, it’s not because you disagree with me that I find you to be hate-filled and closed-minded. It’s primarily because of the unsupported blanket generalizations and misinformation you are propagating. Just look at this post: “liberals everywhere,” “common sense,” “immature actions,” “common expression,” “we all know,” “tons of them,” “typical argument from liberal,” etc. You’re full of generalizations about people who don’t believe as you do. There are plenty of conservatives who don’t believe as I do, but I’m not calling them (as a group) hate-filled and closed-minded – just you.

Also, where did you get the impression that I’m against free speech? I haven’t sought to limit your speech. Say whatever the fuck you want. But don’t blame me for exercising my free speech to tell you what I think of what you have to say.

nathanastin wrote:

The only anti-abortion rally I ever saw was at a college and some people did have signs with aborted fetuses. I had no problem with this because it showed the side people do not want to see and what the problem is really about, not choice. However, the poor people were lamblasted and threatened and had violence perpetrated against them because they happened to say something different than the brain-washed college kids thought. Every other demonstration I ever saw was women's rights, gay rights, etc. etc. by liberals every day. Conservatives get absolutely no say on college campuses. And you say the Christian kids are brain-washed? Go to any college campus and that's where you will find the brain-washing.

No, I never said Christian kids are brain-washed. I never even said Christian kids are “pro-life,” and I wouldn’t. Why would I think that? After all, I believe Jesus was pro-choice.

You say the dead baby pictures show the side of abortion that people don’t want to see, but I would argue that they are generally not accurate depictions of abortion either. Of course, people – pro-choice and pro-life alike – see these pictures and believe them. This is the primary problem I have with these exhibits – that they deliberately present inaccurate information as accurate. (And now everyone who’s seen a guy with a poster can go around thinking he knows what abortions really look like. :rolleyes: )

PJBuckeye

bootlegger10 wrote:

So, from all this I gather the majority of abortions are triggered by rape?

About a whole 1 percent. 1/2 of a percent are incent. They justify the other 98.5% with this 1.5%. Then demonize you when you point it out.

PJBuckeye

scb wrote:

The vast majority of aborted fetuses can't feel pain. So if that's your only problem, it's all good!

And you can live with yourself?

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PJBuckeye wrote:

If you don't find life as a wonderful, precious thing, then I have pitty for you.

I didn't say I did or I didn't. And you didn't even attempt to answer my question. :rolleyes:

(Seriously - why do some people around here have such a problem when asked to support their assertions?!)

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PJBuckeye wrote:

And you can live with yourself?

Huh?

Dylan Stone

Some people on this board spend their lives working to help others...

Not counting money...

All you accountants on this thread crack me up!!!!!!!

PJBuckeye

scb wrote:

I didn't say I did or I didn't. And you didn't even attempt to answer my question. :rolleyes:

(Seriously - why do some people around here have such a problem when asked to support their assertions?!)

Your question is one of a drunk college kid in a dorm room at 3am. If you need proof that life is good, that is sad.

PJBuckeye

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

Some people on this board spend their lives working to help others...

Not counting money...

All you accountants on this thread crack me up!!!!!!!

Yes my life is unimportant because I am an accountant. Why don't you try aborting me while you are at it. I should feel shame that I have a career that provides my family a good life. Who knows how much I give away to good causes or how I volunteer. Maybe a little, maybe alot. You don't know, but you judge.

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PJBuckeye wrote:

Your question is one of a drunk college kid in a dorm room at 3am. If you need proof that life is good, that is sad.

What? You're a drunk college kid in a dorm room at 3 AM?

Dylan Stone

PJBuckeye wrote:

Nobody posts numbers on a website without an agenda. The 1 in 6 number is way off. Has one every six women in your family been raped? Has one of every 6 of your friends been raped? Lets say the average rapist commits two rapes. Has 1 in every twelve guys committed a rape? It is an estimate made up by Feminazis.

No. I judge you for crap like this.

Just happens to be that there are a few of you accountants.

I bet if you had seen the stuff I have seen working in the NYC foster care system you may have a little bit of a different point of view.

PJBuckeye

scb wrote:

What? You're a drunk college kid in a dorm room at 3 AM?

Clever

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PJBuckeye wrote:

Yes my life is unimportant because I am an accountant. Why don't you try aborting me while you are at it. I should feel shame that I have a career that provides my family a good life. Who knows how much I give away to good causes or how I volunteer. Maybe a little, maybe alot. You don't know, but you judge.

I think she's suggesting that accountants are less likely to have as much intimate knowledge of these issues as, say, L&D nurses or social workers.

PJBuckeye

GTFLYGIRL wrote:

No. I judge you for crap like this.

Just happens to be that there are a few of you accountants.

I bet if you had seen the stuff I have seen working in the NYC foster care system you may have a little bit of a different point of view.

My wife works with kids that are DCFS cases. She has a similar point of view as me. Don't act like you are more valid because of your job title. Seems like you have some resentment towards accountants. Sounds like GTFLYGIRL has the Green Disease.

PJBuckeye

scb wrote:

I think she's suggesting that accountants are less likely to have as much intimate knowledge of these issues as, say, L&D nurses or social workers.

I think there are different qualifications of knowing right from wrong.

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PJBuckeye wrote:

Clever

I'm not trying to be clever. I'm trying to understand your comment. Were you saying I'm a drunk college student in a dorm at 3 AM?! Haha!

So you really don't think it's reasonable for me to ask you to explain your assertion? And insulting me for asking is the best response you have? That's sad, but it figures. :rolleyes:

AnnaMelinda

scb wrote:

I think she's suggesting that accountants are less likely to have as much intimate knowledge of these issues as, say, L&D nurses or social workers.

It seems apparent from reading this thread that those of you that have been arguing the pro choice side are a lot more informed and educated about the issue at hand.

These so-called pro-life people like to name call and judge women.

Most of them appear to speak from an extreme misogynistic perspective. It's really scary.

I don't know if I would have an abortion or not. However... I clearly believe it should be legal.

Safe and legal abortions have to be available. Anyone who thinks making them illegal will stop them is obviously clueless.

Oh well. This is a crazy thread!!!

boxwine_in_hell

To quote the late great Bill Hicks. Pro Lifers are....

"Evil, annoying, idiot, fucks."

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PJBuckeye wrote:

I think there are different qualifications of knowing right from wrong.

But you haven't said anything to back-up your so-called knowledge of write and wrong!

All I'm saying is, you can't judge a (wo)man until you've walked a mile in her shoes - and some people have walked much farther than others.