1) People were too afraid to shoot down planes full of innocent people. I don't think they thought they would be flown into buildings...probably assumed it was going to be like most airline hijackings. That would have been a very difficult call to make.
nice try, but i will steal abooks response to this one... What about the last plane that hit the pentagon? It hit an hour and half after the ones that hit the towers... you really think the military and US government would let a hijacked plane fly into DC airspace 90 minutes after 2 planes hit the towers? i do not think they are this incompetant (this is a major sticking point for me and the "official story")
2) He was scheduled to read to the class. He was in the middle of doing so. I believe he misjudged the situation and thought that him remaining calm and finishing was hte right move to try and help the rest of America stay calm. It was a dumb decision.
i call bullshit, when the country is under attack you do not continue to read to a kindergarten class, under ANY circumstances. especially considering he is in a school, how do they know he wasnt a target?
3) Don't know, not a pilot. But things can and do happen. Maybe Allah helped.
exactly, because it is bullshit. plain and simple. anyone with a 3rd grade education knows this is just flat out impossible. and lets not forget they were not pilots either
4) Every president would refuse to be sworn in under oath for ANYTHING so long as they can avoid it. As for stonewalling the investigation, he was being political when he shouldn;t have been. He didn;t want public finding of where his administration failed in protecting Americans. That's a political death sentence and would have been for the entire party. It was about politics.
if your explantion is valid then he put politics above the truth and the lives lost. which makes him one disgusting mofo. i think the american people would have responded well to the truth of what happened, rather than see the prez stonewall an investigation like they had something to hide
That all of you conspiracy nuts are nuts...that's the answer.
By the way, the can't you read part is a joke...sometimes you don't read my writing in the correct context.
Oh, and the finding answers part was a joke as well.
Ah.
You're answers never match mine. Perhaps I'm not looking as hard as you are. Oh and me asking you for the answers, was me joking in return. Why else would I look to you for answers, you greedy neocon?
You don't get my jokes just as often there, buddy.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
nice try, but i will steal abooks response to this one... What about the last plane that hit the pentagon? It hit an hour and half after the ones that hit the towers... you really think the military and US government would let a hijacked plane fly into DC airspace 90 minutes after 2 planes hit the towers? i do not think they are this incompetant (this is a major sticking point for me and the "official story")
i call bullshit, when the country is under attack you do not continue to read to a kindergarten class, under ANY circumstances. especially considering he is in a school, how do they know he wasnt a target?
exactly, because it is bullshit. plain and simple. anyone with a 3rd grade education knows this is just flat out impossible. and lets not forget they were not pilots either
if your explantion is valid then he put politics above the truth and the lives lost. which makes him one disgusting mofo. i think the american people would have responded well to the truth of what happened, rather than see the prez stonewall an investigation like they had something to hide
So what you're saying is that it is more likely that the govt. blew up it's own offices (pentagon) and killed its own people rather than letting a hijacked plane full of innocent americans fly in that airspace? come on
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
So what you're saying is that it is more likely that the govt. blew up it's own offices (pentagon) and killed its own people rather than letting a hijacked plane full of innocent americans fly in that airspace? come on
no, what i am saying is that there are GLARING holes in the official story. i am not blaming anyone or accusing the govt of a conspiracy at all. but, i have not seen these vital questions answered to satisfy my curiousity. thats all, and as an american citizen i feel it is my right, and duty to ask these questions. you think i want to believe it was a conspiracy? i would love to believe the officail story, but there are just too many damn holes in it. thats all
There are some legitimate questions that have never been answered...which could easily be answered if someone had the guts to ask. Chief among them, who is the money behind all of the put-options that were placed against the companies most significantly affected by 9/11? Surely the SEC has this information, if not the banks that made the transfers.
Are we to believe that the same terror organization that is only cabaple of IED's/roadside bombs, etc. is capable of pulling off an attack of this magnitude unassisted? There was major assistance. Will we ever know the real players? Nope. But enough of the speculation...lets focus on good old fashioned physical science...the following (less the steel certification disclosure) is 5th grade stuff in most American schools.
The steel used to construct WTC I and II were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard requires samples to be exposed to temperatures around 1000°C (1832°F) for several hours without weakening. The melting point of steel is about 1370°C.
The maximum flame-temperature for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is about 900°C. This is well less than the sustained temperature required to weaken ASTM E119 steel after several hours of exposure, much less melt it.
The NIST report suggests that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 250°C, which is 1/4th the sustained temperature required to weaken ASTM E119 steel.
There were photos taken of molten pools of steel at the base of both WTC towers even weeks after the attacks. If jet fuel burned that hot, it would melt the engines of jets during the course of routine flights!
I didn't make this shit up. It's science. There's no statistical model that will support the theory of jet fuel weakening or melting steel.
Nope, you didn't, but someone else did without much thought for the scientific process (i.e. Jenga Theory) and you bought into it . Pictures of molten steel? Was it actually molten steel? The people who actually handled it say it wasn't. Go figure. Was jet fuel the only thing burning that day, or was there millions of sqare feet of office contents burning that day? Hmmm...
Guess we'll have to ask the obvious alien spacecraft that visited O'Hare this week. I mean, nothing else can explain that either right? Must have been aliens...
Well, it's interesting to note that NIST is still trying to figure out what caused WTC7 to collapse and are expecting to have an answer for us this year. Apparently they are having problems figuring out WTC7, yet they could figure out what happened to the two towers, which I would think would be harder.
Another interesting note is that Prof. Steven E. Jones has resigned from the Scholars for 9/11 truth movement.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
how do you fly a 747 at 500 mph 20 feet off the ground and hit the pentagon with limited training at a flight school that uses single wing planes?
Well for one thing there were no 747's involved in the events of that day. Different kinds of planes. Small and petty point? Maybe. But it just demonstrates the way you people have no regard for the details in a debate that rather depends on them.
nice try, but i will steal abooks response to this one... What about the last plane that hit the pentagon? It hit an hour and half after the ones that hit the towers... you really think the military and US government would let a hijacked plane fly into DC airspace 90 minutes after 2 planes hit the towers? i do not think they are this incompetant (this is a major sticking point for me and the "official story")
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.
"'The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S.' Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have 'descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall.'
'For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible,' said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737s through 767s, it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying."
"[Flight 77] could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous."
and check this out, from link above:
Barbara Honegger – Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School (1995 - present). White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981-83).
"The US military, not al Qaeda, had the sustained access weeks before 9/11 to also plant controlled demolition charges throughout the superstructures of WTC1 and WTC2, and in WTC7, which brought down all three buildings on 9/11. A US military plane, not one piloted by al Qaeda, performed the highly skilled, high−speed 270−degree dive towards the Pentagon. Air Traffic Controllers on 9/11 were sure [it] was a military plane as they watched it on their screens. Only a military aircraft, not a civilian plane flown by al Qaeda, would have given off the 'friendly' signal needed to disable the Pentagon’s anti−aircraft missile batteries as it approached the building. Only the US military, not al Qaeda, had the ability to break all of its Standard Operating Procedures to paralyze its own emergency response system."
here's what this guy also had to say from the link above:
William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
"David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside job - I've got to say I think that it was too. I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen… The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions."
General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
"One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?"
Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
"The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden.
With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged."
basically, what they want us to believe is some ppl got together in a cave and were able to penetrate our trillion dollar defense network...not only that, but over 90 min after the first plane HIT THE TOWERS a known hijacked plane was able to fly thru DC's no fly zone <Andrew's Air Force Base is only 10 min away from DC>, made a U turn, flew back thru DC's no fly zone and was able to hit the pentagon....over a trillion dollars spent on defense and missile shields and a known hijacked plane was able to penetrate our nation's capital's no fly zone not once, but twice and hit the pentagon????
I guess it's shitty realigning on the bush administration...it used to be NORAD and the military were able to make the call to scramble fighters to check out hijacked planes or even planes that deviated from their flight route or would not respond to radio calls <which this plane that hit the pentagon did>...but July of 2001 the bush administration took this authority away from NORAD and the military and gave it to themselves....Cheney waited until right before the pentagon was hit to scramble fighters after the hijacked planes...what's more he made this decision w/o ever discussing it w/ bush.
so, either this administration is totally incompitent and our trillion dollar defense network is useless or.....
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Theres pages among pages about everything you need to know about the TRUTH about the Bush administration. Heres some main points you all need to know (and are in this guys massive video files):
*Bush fraudulently won the 2000 and 2004 elections by linking innocent people's names (mostly african americans, who mostly vote democratic) with people who had commited crimes, thus putting up a "block" on their ability to vote (at least in Florida). Who to thank? Jeb Bush and others.
*Three drills, 2 performed and 1 "canceled", were performed in the pentagon months and years before 9/11 that outlined what to do if someone hijacked a plane and flew it into the Pentagon. Yet Bush and others claim planes crashing into buildings is something they never thought could happen.
*Planes crashing into buildings do not cause buildings (even skyscrapers) to collapse (example: Milan [?] fire). The collapse of the twin towers (and the less talked about but more important world trade center building 7) was caused by controlled demolitions.
*The owner of all of the World Trade center buildings acquired the buildings months before the attacks and put a hefty insurance policy on them. He turned an initial investment of millions of dollars into a 7 billion dollar profit.
*Bush used the 9/11 attacks to raise the military budget and to begin the war on Iraq
*The US air defense did nothing to offset the plane flying for the Pentagon (although a large base is 20 MILES from the Pentagon) and other military planes were either not scrambled or had delayed scrambling to go and stop the hijacked planes
*The NY fire department was close to putting out the flames in both towers when they suddenly heard "popping" sounds (aka detonators like for controlled demolitions) and the buildings started to collapse.
*Bin Laden's family was allowed to be flown out of the United States while the rest of the nation was grounded
Ok, I'm sick of typing, theres SO MUCH MORE, just watch the videos; if you don't already know this stuff, its astounding. And the "best" part is is that it's not just Bush; Johnson/Nixon did the same thing for Vietnam, and Roosevelt/Eisenhower (?) did the same thing for WWII.
don't forget one of the bush brothers ran the security company that handled security for:
-the wtc towers <i believe the last day of this contract was 9/11 or 9/12>
-both airports the hijacked planes orignated from
and the weekend before 9/11 power was cut from floors 40 or 50 and up on one of the wtc towers while they performed 'upgrades'
thanks for posting the videos
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Here's an interesting site, dealing with the simulations and drills that were being run on 9/11 - which dealt with things like hijacked planes and bioterror attacks..
funny how the terrorists picked that particular day to attack us, with all of this going on
Theres pages among pages about everything you need to know about the TRUTH about the Bush administration. Heres some main points you all need to know (and are in this guys massive video files):
*Bush fraudulently won the 2000 and 2004 elections by linking innocent people's names (mostly african americans, who mostly vote democratic) with people who had commited crimes, thus putting up a "block" on their ability to vote (at least in Florida). Who to thank? Jeb Bush and others.
*Three drills, 2 performed and 1 "canceled", were performed in the pentagon months and years before 9/11 that outlined what to do if someone hijacked a plane and flew it into the Pentagon. Yet Bush and others claim planes crashing into buildings is something they never thought could happen.
*Planes crashing into buildings do not cause buildings (even skyscrapers) to collapse (example: Milan [?] fire). The collapse of the twin towers (and the less talked about but more important world trade center building 7) was caused by controlled demolitions.
*The owner of all of the World Trade center buildings acquired the buildings months before the attacks and put a hefty insurance policy on them. He turned an initial investment of millions of dollars into a 7 billion dollar profit.
*Bush used the 9/11 attacks to raise the military budget and to begin the war on Iraq
*The US air defense did nothing to offset the plane flying for the Pentagon (although a large base is 20 MILES from the Pentagon) and other military planes were either not scrambled or had delayed scrambling to go and stop the hijacked planes
*The NY fire department was close to putting out the flames in both towers when they suddenly heard "popping" sounds (aka detonators like for controlled demolitions) and the buildings started to collapse.
*Bin Laden's family was allowed to be flown out of the United States while the rest of the nation was grounded
Ok, I'm sick of typing, theres SO MUCH MORE, just watch the videos; if you don't already know this stuff, its astounding. And the "best" part is is that it's not just Bush; Johnson/Nixon did the same thing for Vietnam, and Roosevelt/Eisenhower (?) did the same thing for WWII.
You don't happen to have a shack in Montana with an underground bunker do you?
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
i agree. not one demolition expert has said that they could successfully bring down the towers with controlled demolition.
why not watch the ghostbusters video. it proves ghosts exist. it's right there on video.
Good point....and very funny.
one foot in the door
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Theres a reason for that- It all got shipped to China before any evidence could be examined. That's un-heard of
Do you have anymore information about that? I think the 9/11 conspiracy is nonsense, but I would be curious to know why they shipped anything to China.
Theres a reason for that- It all got shipped to China before any evidence could be examined. That's un-heard of
It's unheard of because it's false. Lots of steel was kept for examination. Furthermore, key pieces of the steel that was sent to China was reclaimed. Do your research.
It's unheard of because it's false. Lots of steel was kept for examination. Furthermore, key pieces of the steel that was sent to China was reclaimed. Do your research.
some of the steel was kept, but the fact that any of it was removed so quickly, and sent to china to be melted is rather suspicious.
not only was this the most horrific terror attack in this country and a crime scene, but the collapses of those buildings marked a collosal engineering failure. i would think that every speck of evidence would be preserved to be studied, in order to know - to the most minute detail - what happened to those buildings.
why the rush to not only remove, but to destroy some of this evidence?
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
some of the steel was kept, but the fact that any of it was removed so quickly, and sent to china to be melted is rather suspicious.
not only was this the most horrific terror attack in this country and a crime scene, but the collapses of those buildings marked a collosal engineering failure. i would think that every speck of evidence would be preserved to be studied, in order to know - to the most minute detail - what happened to those buildings.
why the rush to not only remove, but to destroy some of this evidence?
Those were two pretty large buildings. Do you think they really needed ever piece of twisted metal for their investigation? I would be interested to know why metal was shipped to China, but the fact that some was isn't a strong indicator that 9/11 was staged by our gov't.
some of the steel was kept, but the fact that any of it was removed so quickly, and sent to china to be melted is rather suspicious.
Suspicious how? Do you find it suspicious that, following a murder, trash collectors still tend to pick up garbage outside of the victims home?
not only was this the most horrific terror attack in this country and a crime scene, but the collapses of those buildings marked a collosal engineering failure. i would think that every speck of evidence would be preserved to be studied, in order to know - to the most minute detail - what happened to those buildings.
I'm sure you would think that. However, the realities of the NIST investigation did not agree with that.
why the rush to not only remove, but to destroy some of this evidence?
Sigh....the "destroy some of this evidence" part is primarily your paranoid fantasy talking. You have thousands of tons of steel that is now nothing more than garbage sitting in the middle of Manhattan. The site was cleared, and the steel was sold primarily to a bidder in China. If you wanted that steel so badly, and it was such an outrage at the time, I'm pretty sure that the City of New York would have sold it to you at $121 / ton, one dollar more than the price paid by foundries throughout the world.
Those were two pretty large buildings. Do you think they really needed ever piece of twisted metal for their investigation? I would be interested to know why metal was shipped to China, but the fact that some was isn't a strong indicator that 9/11 was staged by our gov't.
i'm not saying that alone proves the gov't staged 911. but it adds to the suspicion. it is not a usual thing to remove and destroy evidence from any crime scene so quickly. and because of the magnitude of this crime, i think its even more unusual.
why destroy it right away? i can understand moving out, in order to look for survivors or to recover bodies. but why was it sent half way around the world and melted before anyone could look at it? why not store it in a warehouse somewhere?
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
i'm not saying that alone proves the gov't staged 911. but it adds to the suspicion. it is not a usual thing to remove and destroy evidence from any crime scene so quickly. and because of the magnitude of this crime, i think its even more unusual.
why destroy it right away? i can understand moving out, in order to look for survivors or to recover bodies. but why was it sent half way around the world and melted before anyone could look at it? why not store it in a warehouse somewhere?
When you hear the conspiracy people tell it, they would have you believe the whole structure was shipped to China, melted, and made in to Hyundais. In actuality it sounds like FFG has a much better answer. Extra metal not needed for the investigation was sold to the highest bidder, which happened to be in China. The metal was sent there, melted and used for something else.
i'm not saying that alone proves the gov't staged 911. but it adds to the suspicion. it is not a usual thing to remove and destroy evidence from any crime scene so quickly. and because of the magnitude of this crime, i think its even more unusual.
why destroy it right away? i can understand moving out, in order to look for survivors or to recover bodies. but why was it sent half way around the world and melted before anyone could look at it? why not store it in a warehouse somewhere?
Again, you're just inventing events here to fit your view. The debris was not destroyed "right away". Much of it sat on the very same spot for months. Eventually, all the WTC steel was sent to a landfill on Staten Island for examination, primarily to find human remains. NIST kept the steel it felt was needed for the investigation. Furthermore, NIST reclaimed some that had been sold when it felt it was necessary.
Did you expect that the investigation was going to inspect all 200,000 tons of steel????
Suspicious how? Do you find it suspicious that, following a murder, trash collectors still tend to pick up garbage outside of the victims home?
i think that metaphor is a bit of a stretch. the steel columns are right at the core of the collapses, not on the periphery. the buildings were designed to withstand multiple jetliner impacts. they failed to do that, so i would think that studying the steel beams would show exactly why and how they failed.
I'm sure you would think that. However, the realities of the NIST investigation did not agree with that.
i trust nist as much as i trust the warren commission. how bout a truly independent investigation? should we have murder suspects preside over their own trials, or replace all of our judges with convicted criminals?
Sigh....the "destroy some of this evidence" part is primarily your paranoid fantasy talking. You have thousands of tons of steel that is now nothing more than garbage sitting in the middle of Manhattan. The site was cleared, and the steel was sold primarily to a bidder in China. If you wanted that steel so badly, and it was such an outrage at the time, I'm pretty sure that the City of New York would have sold it to you at $121 / ton, one dollar more than the price paid by foundries throughout the world.
i disagree that the steel was nothing more than "garbage". the behavoir of the steel is the key element in the buildings' collapses.
if they wanted to sell the steel, fine. but whats the rush? hang on to it for a month to see if it could be useful in the investigation. they were loading on barges before the smoke cleared.
i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
Comments
Can't you read....
That all of you conspiracy nuts are nuts...that's the answer.
By the way, the can't you read part is a joke...sometimes you don't read my writing in the correct context.
Oh, and the finding answers part was a joke as well.
i call bullshit, when the country is under attack you do not continue to read to a kindergarten class, under ANY circumstances. especially considering he is in a school, how do they know he wasnt a target?
exactly, because it is bullshit. plain and simple. anyone with a 3rd grade education knows this is just flat out impossible. and lets not forget they were not pilots either
if your explantion is valid then he put politics above the truth and the lives lost. which makes him one disgusting mofo. i think the american people would have responded well to the truth of what happened, rather than see the prez stonewall an investigation like they had something to hide
Ah.
You're answers never match mine. Perhaps I'm not looking as hard as you are. Oh and me asking you for the answers, was me joking in return.
You don't get my jokes just as often there, buddy.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So what you're saying is that it is more likely that the govt. blew up it's own offices (pentagon) and killed its own people rather than letting a hijacked plane full of innocent americans fly in that airspace? come on
I'm well aware of that. We have communication issues.
no, what i am saying is that there are GLARING holes in the official story. i am not blaming anyone or accusing the govt of a conspiracy at all. but, i have not seen these vital questions answered to satisfy my curiousity. thats all, and as an american citizen i feel it is my right, and duty to ask these questions. you think i want to believe it was a conspiracy? i would love to believe the officail story, but there are just too many damn holes in it. thats all
That we do. At least we've gotten far enough to realize this. That's progress.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
There are some legitimate questions that have never been answered...which could easily be answered if someone had the guts to ask. Chief among them, who is the money behind all of the put-options that were placed against the companies most significantly affected by 9/11? Surely the SEC has this information, if not the banks that made the transfers.
Are we to believe that the same terror organization that is only cabaple of IED's/roadside bombs, etc. is capable of pulling off an attack of this magnitude unassisted? There was major assistance. Will we ever know the real players? Nope. But enough of the speculation...lets focus on good old fashioned physical science...the following (less the steel certification disclosure) is 5th grade stuff in most American schools.
The steel used to construct WTC I and II were certified to ASTM E119. The time temperature curves for this standard requires samples to be exposed to temperatures around 1000°C (1832°F) for several hours without weakening. The melting point of steel is about 1370°C.
The maximum flame-temperature for burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is about 900°C. This is well less than the sustained temperature required to weaken ASTM E119 steel after several hours of exposure, much less melt it.
The NIST report suggests that the steel was probably exposed to temperatures of only about 250°C, which is 1/4th the sustained temperature required to weaken ASTM E119 steel.
There were photos taken of molten pools of steel at the base of both WTC towers even weeks after the attacks. If jet fuel burned that hot, it would melt the engines of jets during the course of routine flights!
I didn't make this shit up. It's science. There's no statistical model that will support the theory of jet fuel weakening or melting steel.
old music: http://www.myspace.com/slowloader
Nope, you didn't, but someone else did without much thought for the scientific process (i.e. Jenga Theory) and you bought into it . Pictures of molten steel? Was it actually molten steel? The people who actually handled it say it wasn't. Go figure. Was jet fuel the only thing burning that day, or was there millions of sqare feet of office contents burning that day? Hmmm...
Guess we'll have to ask the obvious alien spacecraft that visited O'Hare this week. I mean, nothing else can explain that either right? Must have been aliens...
Another interesting note is that Prof. Steven E. Jones has resigned from the Scholars for 9/11 truth movement.
not only that, here's what a pilot and former Air Force Pilot said:
http://www.wanttoknow.info/officialsquestion911commissionreport
Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.
"'The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S.' Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have 'descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall.'
'For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible,' said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737s through 767s, it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying."
"[Flight 77] could not have flown at those speeds which they said it did without going into what they call a high speed stall. The airplane won’t go that fast if you start pulling those high G maneuvers at those bank angles. To expect this alleged airplane to run these maneuvers with a total amateur at the controls is simply ludicrous."
and check this out, from link above:
Barbara Honegger – Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School (1995 - present). White House Policy Analyst and Special Assistant to the Assistant to President Ronald Reagan (1981-83).
"The US military, not al Qaeda, had the sustained access weeks before 9/11 to also plant controlled demolition charges throughout the superstructures of WTC1 and WTC2, and in WTC7, which brought down all three buildings on 9/11. A US military plane, not one piloted by al Qaeda, performed the highly skilled, high−speed 270−degree dive towards the Pentagon. Air Traffic Controllers on 9/11 were sure [it] was a military plane as they watched it on their screens. Only a military aircraft, not a civilian plane flown by al Qaeda, would have given off the 'friendly' signal needed to disable the Pentagon’s anti−aircraft missile batteries as it approached the building. Only the US military, not al Qaeda, had the ability to break all of its Standard Operating Procedures to paralyze its own emergency response system."
here's what this guy also had to say from the link above:
William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran.
"David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside job - I've got to say I think that it was too. I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen… The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions."
General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.
"One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?"
Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career.
"The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden.
With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged."
basically, what they want us to believe is some ppl got together in a cave and were able to penetrate our trillion dollar defense network...not only that, but over 90 min after the first plane HIT THE TOWERS a known hijacked plane was able to fly thru DC's no fly zone <Andrew's Air Force Base is only 10 min away from DC>, made a U turn, flew back thru DC's no fly zone and was able to hit the pentagon....over a trillion dollars spent on defense and missile shields and a known hijacked plane was able to penetrate our nation's capital's no fly zone not once, but twice and hit the pentagon????
I guess it's shitty realigning on the bush administration...it used to be NORAD and the military were able to make the call to scramble fighters to check out hijacked planes or even planes that deviated from their flight route or would not respond to radio calls <which this plane that hit the pentagon did>...but July of 2001 the bush administration took this authority away from NORAD and the military and gave it to themselves....Cheney waited until right before the pentagon was hit to scramble fighters after the hijacked planes...what's more he made this decision w/o ever discussing it w/ bush.
so, either this administration is totally incompitent and our trillion dollar defense network is useless or.....
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
don't forget one of the bush brothers ran the security company that handled security for:
-the wtc towers <i believe the last day of this contract was 9/11 or 9/12>
-both airports the hijacked planes orignated from
and the weekend before 9/11 power was cut from floors 40 or 50 and up on one of the wtc towers while they performed 'upgrades'
thanks for posting the videos
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
or, it was saddam hussein.
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funny how the terrorists picked that particular day to attack us, with all of this going on
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/9-11_exercises.html
9/11: Real World or Exercise?
At least five exercises were in operation in the days leading up to and on 9/11.
1) Operation Northern Vigilance.
2) Biowarfare Exercise Tripod II.
3) Operation Vigilant Guardian.
4) Operation Northern Guardian.
5) Operation Vigilant Warrior.**
The exercises caused great confusion during the 9/11 attacks.
click the link above to read/see/hear more
**there is some question about the name of this particular exercise. for more on that specifically, go here: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-1843
You don't happen to have a shack in Montana with an underground bunker do you?
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Exactly, all of us who question the official 9/11 story are terrorists like the unabomber.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Good point....and very funny.
the other foot in the gutter
sweet smell that they adore
I think I'd rather smother
-The Replacements-
Theres a reason for that- It all got shipped to China before any evidence could be examined. That's un-heard of
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
some of these are free on google
have you seen any?
http://groups.msn.com/PearlJamNirvana/messages.msnw
Do you have anymore information about that? I think the 9/11 conspiracy is nonsense, but I would be curious to know why they shipped anything to China.
It's unheard of because it's false. Lots of steel was kept for examination. Furthermore, key pieces of the steel that was sent to China was reclaimed. Do your research.
i suggest "911 - press for truth".
watch the trailer here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8666444901186351024
watch the whole thing here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250
some of the steel was kept, but the fact that any of it was removed so quickly, and sent to china to be melted is rather suspicious.
not only was this the most horrific terror attack in this country and a crime scene, but the collapses of those buildings marked a collosal engineering failure. i would think that every speck of evidence would be preserved to be studied, in order to know - to the most minute detail - what happened to those buildings.
why the rush to not only remove, but to destroy some of this evidence?
Those were two pretty large buildings. Do you think they really needed ever piece of twisted metal for their investigation? I would be interested to know why metal was shipped to China, but the fact that some was isn't a strong indicator that 9/11 was staged by our gov't.
Suspicious how? Do you find it suspicious that, following a murder, trash collectors still tend to pick up garbage outside of the victims home?
I'm sure you would think that. However, the realities of the NIST investigation did not agree with that.
Sigh....the "destroy some of this evidence" part is primarily your paranoid fantasy talking. You have thousands of tons of steel that is now nothing more than garbage sitting in the middle of Manhattan. The site was cleared, and the steel was sold primarily to a bidder in China. If you wanted that steel so badly, and it was such an outrage at the time, I'm pretty sure that the City of New York would have sold it to you at $121 / ton, one dollar more than the price paid by foundries throughout the world.
i'm not saying that alone proves the gov't staged 911. but it adds to the suspicion. it is not a usual thing to remove and destroy evidence from any crime scene so quickly. and because of the magnitude of this crime, i think its even more unusual.
why destroy it right away? i can understand moving out, in order to look for survivors or to recover bodies. but why was it sent half way around the world and melted before anyone could look at it? why not store it in a warehouse somewhere?
When you hear the conspiracy people tell it, they would have you believe the whole structure was shipped to China, melted, and made in to Hyundais. In actuality it sounds like FFG has a much better answer. Extra metal not needed for the investigation was sold to the highest bidder, which happened to be in China. The metal was sent there, melted and used for something else.
Again, you're just inventing events here to fit your view. The debris was not destroyed "right away". Much of it sat on the very same spot for months. Eventually, all the WTC steel was sent to a landfill on Staten Island for examination, primarily to find human remains. NIST kept the steel it felt was needed for the investigation. Furthermore, NIST reclaimed some that had been sold when it felt it was necessary.
Did you expect that the investigation was going to inspect all 200,000 tons of steel????
i think that metaphor is a bit of a stretch. the steel columns are right at the core of the collapses, not on the periphery. the buildings were designed to withstand multiple jetliner impacts. they failed to do that, so i would think that studying the steel beams would show exactly why and how they failed.
i trust nist as much as i trust the warren commission. how bout a truly independent investigation? should we have murder suspects preside over their own trials, or replace all of our judges with convicted criminals?
i disagree that the steel was nothing more than "garbage". the behavoir of the steel is the key element in the buildings' collapses.
if they wanted to sell the steel, fine. but whats the rush? hang on to it for a month to see if it could be useful in the investigation. they were loading on barges before the smoke cleared.