those dirty 3rd parties stealing votes...

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  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    actually what is really playing a HUGE part in this is the many many volunteers on the campaign who have been phonebanking and canvassing. that's where it's at. people connect with people sharing their own opinions with each other. not with the tv. people on the ground made this happen.


    I disagree with your assessment that TV hasn't played a HUGE role in gaining all the support he has gotten. That's why he got so many people to volunteer for him in the first place.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    perhaps he'd get more exposure if people cared enough to donate and build a large grassroots operation.


    What? Is it going to come to them in a dream that they should seek out Ralph Nader?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Obama got press from the get go being allowed into the Democratic debates and has tons of press building his momentum for over a year. You can not say with a straight face that this hasn't been all the difference in the world.

    Nader would never be allowed in the debates. And he'd mop the floor with the rest if he ever were.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I disagree with your assessment that TV hasn't played a HUGE role in gaining all the support he has gotten. That's why he got so many people to volunteer for him in the first place.

    oh i don't think so. no one knew who he was 'in the first place'. his name was mentioned after the 2004 convention. people read his book and got excited. when he announced clinton was favored to win the nomination. people connected with him and his beliefs and built a movement. sure tv gives him exposure, but there were many excited and interested people before he started getting all that exposure.

    i never said tv doesn't help. but it didn't build the movement. i believe if enough people cared about nader, he'd get some exposure too.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do you honestly think the average person wants to start hearing about someone running for office the day after inauguration day? Maybe they should, but most are probably happy all the frenzy surrounding the last election is finally over. Also he's not made of money....it takes money to run a campaign.


    The day after inauguration was a bit of an exaggeration, but starting so late after everyone else and expecting to get as much support is like going to a fancy restaurant 10 minutes before they close and being pissed off that they won't seat you.

    And if money is such a problem how hard is it, if the guy is traveling the country anyway all the time to spend some time knocking on doors and talking to people and trying to drum up support and volunteers that way. And if he wanted to do it extra cheap get a bus ticket and go from city to city. Just because the major candidates have their own private jets doesn't mean it is a requirement, especially if you have the opportunity to start way before they do.
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    What? Is it going to come to them in a dream that they should seek out Ralph Nader?

    hey, maybe. but what's proven to be effective is the knocking on doors and the phone calling thing. there's also the internet now.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    hey, maybe. but what's proven to be effective is the knocking on doors and the phone calling thing. there's also the internet now.


    Which Nader has...out there petitioning for ballot access right now.

    But to get larger numbers of those volunteers you need more media exposure.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Which Nader has...out there petitioning for ballot access right now.

    But to get larger numbers of those volunteers you need more media exposure.

    you say 'media exposure', i say 'interest' or maybe 'desire'.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    oh i don't think so. no one knew who he was 'in the first place'. his name was mentioned after the 2004 convention. people read his book and got excited. when he announced clinton was favored to win the nomination. people connected with him and his beliefs and built a movement. sure tv gives him exposure, but there were many excited and interested people before he started getting all that exposure.

    i never said tv doesn't help. but it didn't build the movement. i believe if enough people cared about nader, he'd get some exposure too.

    People are in fear in Republicans these days and that plays a part.

    But to get more people out there wanting to volunteer for you...you need media exposure in the first place. I mean, all we've heard about for over a year now in the media is this Obama mania.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    you say 'media exposure', i say 'interest' or maybe 'desire'.


    Which you can't get if no one has heard of you.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Danny Boy wrote:
    I appreciate your offering and will check those videos out in fairness to your perspective, but a few of my questions are left unanswered. Also, as a fervent Nader supporter, I'd prefer your your input moreso than having my questions answered by a video or link. Not that I mind videos or links, but when discussing politics, I like hearing the sentiments of those with whom I'm sharing a discussion.


    And I have been here for months stating my opinion on this matter but I'm no professional so I'm offering you my opinion AND the opinions of people more skilled and professionally based on these matters, as well.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    The day after inauguration was a bit of an exaggeration, but starting so late after everyone else and expecting to get as much support is like going to a fancy restaurant 10 minutes before they close and being pissed off that they won't seat you.

    And if money is such a problem how hard is it, if the guy is traveling the country anyway all the time to spend some time knocking on doors and talking to people and trying to drum up support and volunteers that way. And if he wanted to do it extra cheap get a bus ticket and go from city to city. Just because the major candidates have their own private jets doesn't mean it is a requirement, especially if you have the opportunity to start way before they do.


    He's doing what is realistically possible for him. As I've already mentioned, he wouldn't even have ran if the Dems would have addressed these important issues that they simply chose not to. Once it was clear which was the nod was headed and what was being brought to the table, he decided to run.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Which Nader has...out there petitioning for ballot access right now.

    But to get larger numbers of those volunteers you need more media exposure.

    As I mentioned before, when Nader explored a run in 2004 I sought him out and sent a request for information through his campaign website seeking policy stances and volunteer information. And never received a response.

    When people offer up their time and convey interest, a response is warranted, no?
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Which is?

    I don't really feel I need to spell them out...I have my own personal reasons for voting how I see fit...I hope that's ok...
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    and you brought up having held office as being important to you. Do you think that makes a person automatically qualified? I look at the extremely low approval rating of congress and think it doesn't mean shit. They don't or better put...won't do their job as it stands anyway. I'm with Cosmo and others here who have said vote out all incumbents because they have proven themselves incapable of doing the job they were elected to do.

    automatically...? nope...

    I would hope, though, the person 1 step away from the most powerful job in the world could win a local election...

    voting out incumbents...? yes, I agree...
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Danny Boy wrote:
    As I mentioned before, when Nader explored a run in 2004 I sought him out and sent a request for information through his campaign website seeking policy stances and volunteer information. And never received a response.

    When people offer up their time and convey interest, a response is warranted, no?


    And I have emailed Obama's, McCain's and Nader's campaign and haven't gotten a response. I take it they are all very busy.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Which you can't get if no one has heard of you.

    are you implying no one has ever heard of Nader before 2008...?
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    People are in fear in Republicans these days and that plays a part.

    But to get more people out there wanting to volunteer for you...you need media exposure in the first place. I mean, all we've heard about for over a year now in the media is this Obama mania.

    again, people were into him before what you deem the 'mania'. but obviously this is an exercise in futility.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    inmytree wrote:
    are you implying no one has ever heard of Nader before 2008...?

    oh snap.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    I don't really feel I need to spell them out...I have my own personal reasons for voting how I see fit...I hope that's ok...



    automatically...? nope...

    I would hope, though, the person 1 step away from the most powerful job in the world could win a local election...

    voting out incumbents...? yes, I agree...

    Then being an incumbent is not saying to much, eh?

    Standing up for the things you view as important and desperately needs addressing? Much more important to me.

    I know why and how people often times get elected in this country and usually it has jack to do with being the right person for the job...so this point seems irrelevant to me.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    are you implying no one has ever heard of Nader before 2008...?


    I'm implying that a very large percentage haven't, I know because of asking people about him. And also of the ones that know of him, many don't even know he's running this year. And of the ones that know he's running...many haven't heard what his stances on the issues include. Then there's the ones who feel fearing McCain is more important than voting their conscience.

    and on and on...
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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