those dirty 3rd parties stealing votes...

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  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    So you think the 2 major parties should run uncontested for president? Give you no other options? Why would they even bother addressing issues then? They could just give you whatever they felt like throwing out.

    It is unbelievable how low the approval ratings are for congress and the president yet people are too fucking complacent to do anything about or even think 'Gee...these guys sure do suck. Maybe we should try something new? Nah, lets just stick with these clowns because it's all we are capable of.'

    I never said anything about only having "2 major parties run uncontested"...I wanted Bloomberg to jump into the race as a third party...at least he has some gov't experience...

    I'm specifically saying Nader should start in congress and move his way up...as it stands, I know little about how he would truly vote...don't laugh or get upset, but it's true...I say he has to work is way up, rather that jump to the top...

    we're talking about the President of the United States...and I know this...I'm not going to vote for a ticket that has some guy(the cute fella Matt) one step away from the Presidency when he couldn't win the race for Mayor...

    Please understand something...many, including me, would like changes in how this country is run...but Nader/Matty is not for me...sorry...

    Christ...my first post in this thread supported third party candidates...but I guess that's not enough...I guess I must support Nader...or maybe I'm just too fucking complacent...or maybe I think Nader/Matty is not the answer...
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    I never said anything about only having "2 major parties run uncontested"...I wanted Bloomberg to jump into the race as a third party...at least he has some gov't experience...

    I'm specifically saying Nader should start in congress and move his way up...as it stands, I know little about how he would truly vote...don't laugh or get upset, but it's true...I say he has to work is way up, rather that jump to the top...

    we're talking about the President of the United States...and I know this...I'm not going to vote for a ticket that has some guy(the cute fella Matt) one step away from the Presidency when he couldn't win the race for Mayor...

    Please understand something...many, including me, would like changes in how this country is run...but Nader/Matty is not for me...sorry...

    Christ...my first post in this thread supported third party candidates...but I guess that's not enough...I guess I must support Nader...or maybe I'm just too fucking complacent...or maybe I think Nader/Matty is not the answer...

    You have every right to post what you want to but that doesn't mean I'm not going to challenge the premise you're basing your points on.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Danny Boy wrote:
    I understand it's difficult raising money when not affiliated with a major party, but if you consider Ron Paul, he is in some essences an outside candidate even though he's declared Republican. Look at how much money Howard Dean (I do understand the vast difference between an activist and a governor) raised online and the doors his campaign opened for candidates to court small donors. It can't be that expensive to run an online campaign. If he can afford a website with a "contact us" section, he can afford to offer respnses to potential voters.

    I'll give you that it would be nearly impossible to run a dollar for dollar campaign, but if he utilized the grasrrots resources and internet, he wouldn't have to wait a year after oother candidates declared to make his own declaration.

    Somebody mentioned earlier that he spends a lot of time in the public arena speaking about issues ~ how hard would it have been for him to do so and state at the end of each gathering that he's running for president?


    If you'd watch those videos or read the things I've posted about fighting for ballot access(check out the thread titled Ralph Nader) then you might understand exactly how much effort and up hill battles the Nader campaign has to face.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    You have every right to post what you want to but that doesn't mean I'm not going to challenge the premise you're basing your points on.

    I support those who vote 3rd party...plain and simple...

    I don't support the current 3rd party choice/s....
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    How is he going to run a campaign for as long as the other candidates when he's not funded by huge corporate donations? Let's be real here.

    perhaps he should have used his small chunk of money at the beginning to get out there when everyone else was. i would think if if goal was to have candidates pay attention to his issues, he would have been campaigning earlier around/before the debates. and you've posted about his support. that percent of the population you claim support nader could have funded a longer run. if it's about the issues for him, i don't understand why he waited so long. it's much easier to ignore him now. and people who are so insistent on voting for him are lost to the dems anyway. they'll spend their money where they're more likely to get votes.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    I support those who vote 3rd party...plain and simple...

    I don't support the current 3rd party choice/s....

    And that's your right.

    All I've done here is to challenge preconceived notions and points I disagree with....also my right to do so.

    I think Nader has plenty of gov't experience and we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is more knowledgable on how this country is ran and the way our laws are supposed to work for us.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    If you'd watch those videos or read the things I've posted about fighting for ballot access(check out the thread titled Ralph Nader) then you might understand exactly how much effort and up hill battles the Nader campaign has to face.

    I appreciate your offering and will check those videos out in fairness to your perspective, but a few of my questions are left unanswered. Also, as a fervent Nader supporter, I'd prefer your your input moreso than having my questions answered by a video or link. Not that I mind videos or links, but when discussing politics, I like hearing the sentiments of those with whom I'm sharing a discussion.
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And that's your right.

    All I've done here is to challenge preconceived notions and points I disagree with....also my right to do so.

    I think Nader has plenty of gov't experience and we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is more knowledgable on how this country is ran and the way our laws are supposed to work for us.

    And I'm doing the same (challenge preconceived notions and points I disagree with)....

    for example, my point about Mr. Gonzales...he wants to be VP, yet he can't win a mayor's race...your thoughts...?
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Danny Boy wrote:
    I understand it's difficult raising money when not affiliated with a major party, but if you consider Ron Paul, he is in some essences an outside candidate even though he's declared Republican. Look at how much money Howard Dean (I do understand the vast difference between an activist and a governor) raised online and the doors his campaign opened for candidates to court small donors. It can't be that expensive to run an online campaign. If he can afford a website with a "contact us" section, he can afford to offer responses to potential voters.

    I'll give you that it would be nearly impossible to run a dollar for dollar campaign, but if he utilized the grasrrots resources and internet, he wouldn't have to wait a year after oother candidates declared to make his own declaration.

    Somebody mentioned earlier that he spends a lot of time in the public arena speaking about issues ~ how hard would it have been for him to do so and state at the end of each gathering that he's running for president?

    seriously. think about the millions of dollars obama raised from the internet---people donating 5 dollars at a time, for example.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    perhaps he should have used his small chunk of money at the beginning to get out there when everyone else was. i would think if if goal was to have candidates pay attention to his issues, he would have been campaigning earlier around/before the debates. and you've posted about his support. that percent of the population you claim support nader could have funded a longer run. if it's about the issues for him, i don't understand why he waited so long. it's much easier to ignore him now. and people who are so insistent on voting for him are lost to the dems anyway. they'll spend their money where they're more likely to get votes.


    Why? And then run out when it's crunch time? He would not be able to keep up. Also he waited to announce hoping the Dems would address these issues that have been largely ignored in years past...they chose not to and he chose to run to gain some spotlight on all those issues the Dems would more than happily keep swept under the rug.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And that's your right.

    All I've done here is to challenge preconceived notions and points I disagree with....also my right to do so.

    I think Nader has plenty of gov't experience and we'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is more knowledgable on how this country is ran and the way our laws are supposed to work for us.

    Ron Paul has a pretty good grasp on Constitutional matters. =)
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • Danny Boy
    Danny Boy Posts: 161
    VictoryGin wrote:
    seriously. think about the millions of dollars obama raised from the internet---people donating 5 dollars at a time, for example.

    That's precisely what I was getting at!!!
    Trading magic for fact, no tradebacks... So this is what it's like to be an adult...
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    And I'm doing the same (challenge preconceived notions and points I disagree with)....

    for example, my point about Mr. Gonzales...he wants to be VP, yet he can't win a mayor's race...your thoughts...?


    My thoughts are that he would make a damn fine mayor and VP.

    I'm not voting for popularity here or who has the most money and selling power. I'm voting on what's important to me.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Why? And then run out when it's crunch time? He would not be able to keep up.

    that indicates to me a lack of support.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I'm voting on what's important to me.

    so am I....
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    seriously. think about the millions of dollars obama raised from the internet---people donating 5 dollars at a time, for example.

    But Obama's face is plastered all over CNN 24/7. You can not get around that fact playing a HUGE part in this.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    VictoryGin wrote:
    that indicates to me a lack of support.


    Due to lack of exposure
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    But Obama's face is plastered all over CNN 24/7. You can not get around that fact playing a HUGE part in this.

    actually what is really playing a HUGE part in this is the many many volunteers on the campaign who have been phonebanking and canvassing. that's where it's at. people connect with people sharing their own opinions with each other. not with the tv. people on the ground made this happen.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    inmytree wrote:
    so am I....


    Which is?

    and you brought up having held office as being important to you. Do you think that makes a person automatically qualified? I look at the extremely low approval rating of congress and think it doesn't mean shit. They don't or better put...won't do their job as it stands anyway. I'm with Cosmo and others here who have said vote out all incumbents because they have proven themselves incapable of doing the job they were elected to do.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Due to lack of exposure

    perhaps he'd get more exposure if people cared enough to donate and build a large grassroots operation.
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside

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