Same folks up front

jsilsby

This thread is leading down a scary path of Doxing the assholes. While i wholeheartedly endorse calling out bad behavior, this seems to be going into darker territory and I recommend people just chill and accept that assholes always win in the end.

bootleg

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is N2 handled differently and for N2 everyone goes to the camp out spot right away?  

And where is this common knowledge posted?  If it’s my first and only time ever trying for the rail how would I know any of this?

darwinstheory

bootleg said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is N2 handled differently and for N2 everyone goes to the camp out spot right away?  

And where is this common knowledge posted?  If it’s my first and only time ever trying for the rail how would I know any of this?

BINGO! Especially after reading the "sticky" post about there being no official line. The dude went to where the line for N1 had waited. Them not granting him his #1 spot is...something. 

100 Pacer

@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.

Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.

There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.

Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.

The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't. 

Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.

There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.

I'll cite some examples.

At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service.  No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.

Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.

I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.

But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.

Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.

Go Animal

JimmyV said:

Worth noting too that with each tour we see more stoppages because of people in GA needing medical assistance. It's an aging fanbase less and less suited to spend 24/48 hours outdoors waiting for doors to open. 

☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️🤷☝️☝️

JimmyV

100 Pacer said:

@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.

Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.

There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.

Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.

The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't. 

Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.

There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.

I'll cite some examples.

At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service.  No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.

Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.

I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.

But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.

Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.

Wow. 

Spoken

In the olden days, you'd just get punched in the back until you left the rail LOL.

Loujoe

Heck back when there was numbers i was something like 13 and was told by a woman I wasn't till she was blue in the face. She was buddies with the 'line leader' so eventually I was like f..k it and stepped by 20 or so people. Too stressful and yes the she got what she wanted but has to live with her annoying self.
I win

pjhawks

If you “have” to be on the rail every show and do everything you can to get rail every show you’re a selfish entitled prick in my humble opinion. I have no dog in the fight because I don’t go for ga but if you believe this bands messaging you’d be more than happy to have other people get the rail instead of yourself every show.  Those types have made it about themselves.   It’s sad this is an issue.

mace1229

This topic comes up every tour. I've never camped out in line so I don't have a personal experience, but I've read plenty of stories.
And most of the bad stories seem to come from unofficial pre-lines and those who are camping out for the first time not know about said pre-lines. And why would they? Especially since many of the tours the band announces there are no official pre lines and no pre-lines will be honored, etc. But if you don't know about the unofficial secret pre-line and head to the GA line when the 10c told you to go line up, you get yelled at and accused of cutting.
I have to say I'd be pretty pissed and probably non-compliant if I followed the official rules and did exactly as instructed by the band only to be told to go to the end of the line because I was hanging out at the wrong bar all night and didn't check in with the right, unaffiliated-with-the-band, guy.

Spoken

pjhawks said:

If you “have” to be on the rail every show and do everything you can to get rail every show you’re a selfish entitled prick in my humble opinion.

Welcome to Pearl Jam Fandom Hahaha

mace1229

bootleg said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is N2 handled differently and for N2 everyone goes to the camp out spot right away?  

And where is this common knowledge posted?  If it’s my first and only time ever trying for the rail how would I know any of this?

Well....he said it's a common understanding then asks for clarity if it's actually correct. So it isn't very common. Anyone who is just trying for the first time and doesn't follow the social media circles would have no idea. 

mace1229

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

I never heard the band's security backing any of the pre-lines? I just always heard the strength in numbers and not to friendly to the newbies. Does the security actually help them? Thats odd if they do. 

given2flym

100 Pacer said:

@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.

Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.

There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.

Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.

The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't. 

Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.

There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.

I'll cite some examples.

At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service.  No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.

Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.

I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.

But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.

Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.

Well said. Every bit. 

Chrrie

100 Pacer said:

@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.

Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.

There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.

Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.

The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't. 

Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.

There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.

I'll cite some examples.

At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service.  No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.

Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.

I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.

But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.

Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Merkin Baller

Well said 100Pacer 

elvistheking44

IBTL

on2legs

Please give us hint as to who the covert ticket broker is among us.  

Bentleyspop

In a coincidence as I was reading this thread SiriusXM PJ radio was playing the Albany 5/12/06 show where during encore break 1 Eddie comments on seeing the same fucking people in the front row again.
And then differentiating between normal fans and the freaks who want to hear the rare weird songs. Then plays Rats.

nicknyr15

on2legs said:

Please give us hint as to who the covert ticket broker is among us.  

Yes please.