@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
1993: 11/22 Little Rock
1996; 9/28 New York
1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
2000: 10/17 Dallas
2003: 4/3 OKC
2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
2013: 11/16 OKC
2014: 10/8 Tulsa 2022: 9/20 OKC 2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
If or when the person is revealed I feel like it will rival the shock and disappointment The Doobie Brothers had when they found out Rerun was bootlegging their show.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2025: Raleigh
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
If or when the person is revealed I feel like it will rival the shock and disappointment The Doobie Brothers had when they found out Rerun was bootlegging their show.
There's a simple remedy that other bands have used - everyone lined up by a certain time (say 5:30 on a 6:30 door open) gets in order and someone from the band, club or venue chooses a random number to be the start of the line and it goes from there to the end and then back to the start.
Not sure why this is so difficult. Everyone was ok when the first 2 rows were lottery. This is the equivalent to that, just day of show.
It would also save the campers from themselves as they can enjoy the city they're in as there's no need to line up until like 5....
Who's opposed to this idea?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
If or when the person is revealed I feel like it will rival the shock and disappointment The Doobie Brothers had when they found out Rerun was bootlegging their show.
Lol. Which Doobie You be?
Oh to see the Doobie Brothers in a 4 row folding chair "auditorium" in their hey day.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
In the spirit of something we all agree on, it think it is important to point out this person as well, not just gloss over it. Honestly, I think that person should be pointed out constantly while in line. Just my $.02.
"A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
My first time was last night. I lined up just before 9am and the experience was great. Everyone was friendly and many went out of their way to help and make sure I'm doing ok, both during the long wait and once we were inside. Met a bunch of extra cool people that I can't wait to see again.
Doing the whole thing again on Friday. Come say hi!
There's a simple remedy that other bands have used - everyone lined up by a certain time (say 5:30 on a 6:30 door open) gets in order and someone from the band, club or venue chooses a random number to be the start of the line and it goes from there to the end and then back to the start.
Not sure why this is so difficult. Everyone was ok when the first 2 rows were lottery. This is the equivalent to that, just day of show.
It would also save the campers from themselves as they can enjoy the city they're in as there's no need to line up until like 5....
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
How about the band just plays at the back of the venue next time, and effs with everybody's heads? The stage could be suspended in the rafters, then lowered when the lights go out. Gawd, that would be funny af!
IDK, I generally find the GA experience generally pretty great and chill—and I've camped out and been among the first 20 or so and gotten the rail, and I've stood in line a couple hours before and been a few folks back. Like, yeah, some people will be shitty, and it can get weird and chippy, but I generally find that if you just let the assholes be assholes—however you define that—then everybody around you is chiller for it. You're all within a stupid close distance anyway.
There are so many of these posts that are like "hey sure there are assholes and it can get chippy but..." and what many of us are trying to say is that zero chippiness and assholishness should be a reasonable standard. As far as I can tell it continues on unabated rather than being dealt with.
Yes sir! And the bullshit has been going on for decades. And they can tell me all day long how they are "angels"
Fact is I wasn't born yesterday.
Since you put it in quotes... I'll give $25 to a charity of your choice if you can show where someone here used the word "angels" in defense of people who line up for GA.
I used the word angels. I've referred to them as angels for 20 years
Keep your $25
This reminds me of a bet I made with one of my best friends in college. It was 2001, back when we used AOL instant messenger. He didn’t have a computer at home and was experiencing IMing people for the first time, and thought he was talking to some hot chicks. My roommate and I bet that we at least one of those chicks would be a dude, and it was up to us to find out and prove it. We bet 2 large pizzas. So naturally I created a fake aol account and made my profile to all the things he liked (Yankees, etc). We catfished him for about 2 or 3 weeks. i almost felt bad eating that pizza.
IDK, I generally find the GA experience generally pretty great and chill—and I've camped out and been among the first 20 or so and gotten the rail, and I've stood in line a couple hours before and been a few folks back. Like, yeah, some people will be shitty, and it can get weird and chippy, but I generally find that if you just let the assholes be assholes—however you define that—then everybody around you is chiller for it. You're all within a stupid close distance anyway.
I try not to normalize asshole behavior as a general rule. That’s how we got here in the first place. It shouldn’t matter if you are camping out for the first time or the 200th time. You all would be equal. This ain’t Animal Farm which is what the system has become
Yeah, but people are gonna people. Might as well try to be a duck.
2008: Philly (6/20), NYC (6/25) | 2009: Philly (10/28) | 2016: Philly (4/28), Philly (4/29) | 2018: Chicago (8/18), Chicago (8/20), Boston (9/4) | 2022: Quebec City (9/1), Ottawa (9/3), Hamilton (9/6), Toronto (9/8) | 2023: Chicago (9/5), Chicago (9/7), Fort Worth (9/13) | 2024:
Missoula (8/22), Noblesville (8/26), Chicago (8/29), Chicago (8/30),
Philly (9/7), Philly (9/9), Baltimore (9/12), Boston (9/15), Boston
(9/17) | 2025: Nashville (5/6), Nashville (5/8), Pittsburgh (5/16), Pittsburgh (5/18)
@Chrrie fact-based summation was accurate and representative of the situation on the ground.
Where a misunderstanding has occurred or where situational awareness isn't shared by all parties on the ground generally speaking maturity and fairness prevail. I say generally speaking because while emotions are heightened sometimes people say or do silly or offensive things. We've all of us worked hard to afford ourselves the opportunity to see a show or perhaps even tour behind the band for several shows and both adrenaline and FOMO are at their high. The GA line isn't a "buck stops here" scenario but I would just say as @Chrrie noted there are two sides to every story.
There is negativity often directed at those who are dedicated in their efforts to line up extensively for GA. People will attack their lifestyle choices, their passion and level of dedication (or frankly lack thereof), people will hurl insults at those who choose to tour behind the band for multiple shows (and for multiple years) especially focused on their desire to be as close to the front of the GA line so as to afford the chance to be as close to the stage rail as possible. Regardless of your position on the matter every situation on the ground at every show can and will be different. Could one or two bad apples ruin it for the bunch? Naturally. As I noted with a good friend earlier: it's difficult to achieve a good reputation but it's easy to achieve a bad reputation. Judging from afar is often clouded by prejudice.
Having said that I understand, in my humble opinion, why the GA line exists in the matter that it does tour in and tour out. Some have suggested, on multiple occasions, that the band ought to revert to a random GA line: for example come 8am morning of show there are 150 concertgoers already in the GA line and numbered wristbands are handed out to them and anyone else who lines up after them and at 12:00pm venue security will hold a draw to pick out a number that forms the start of the line - if number 76 is drawn that number becomes the front of the line and is followed by 77, 78, and 79 etc until all numbers are exhausted and then number 1 joins the back of the line. Bruce Springsteen has adopted this method and many would like to see this band do the same.
The current GA model is favoured by the band because the GA crowd has proven itself capable of monitoring and policing itself as numerous occasions. As Ed has often asked from the mic, "police yourselves." I don't pretend to be a mind reader but I think it's safe to say for the majority of us serious collectors and dedicated touring ans seeing the band up close and personal is a highly prized event. So much so some can be overwhelmed by their own passion and fandom...with a small minority even taking things to an extreme. I would just say as follows: the band has a security list that is monitored for threats, I don't believe this is confidential information to state publicly, but I think we might take things for granted that perhaps the band still can't.
Attending a concert of the band's involves walking through a metal detector but beyond that if someone were to cause an extremely uncomfortable situation upfront, even an unprovoked verbal assault, at the band I wouldn't think the band would immediately instruct their security to kick said person out. Ed has observed and evaluated a lot from the mic, and he's quickly able to determine the difference between an asshole and a drunk. The GA crowd is an established and proven community, so much so that crew and band personnel have formed friendships with many of them...a chance meeting years ago now leads to meeting up at the GA floor to share photos of their kids and home improvements. You might not agree with the breakdown of informal conduct that occurs in lining up but the friendships and camaraderie that have developed is endorsed by the band.
There exists the opportunity for anyone and everyone to participate. The GA crowd at the front of the lines are often the scapegoats and that's easy to do behind a keyboard here or on the Facebook. I will say what I've noticed this leg, in 2025, that I didn't notice so much while touring behind the band in 2005, for example, is the prevalence of the Me vs We mentality. This I think is the bigger take away here.
I'll cite some examples.
At the recent Hollywood shows the GA and merch lines were subject to some unique circumstances. A casino after all is happy to host concerts at their venue onsite but generally speaking don't care much for obsessed fans roaming and establishing hundreds-long lines on the premises that impact otherwise harmonious operations. I'll get right to the gist of it: a merch line was established at a specific casino security-sanctioned zone during the early hours of the first Hollywood show and a crowd of 50-75 had lined up peacefully and happily to wait it out from very early morning. A general email had gone out advising of no lineups prior to a certain time for merch, and I'm not here to debate this position: the band's merch manager's job is to conduct a safe and secure sale on the ground. This can only be accomplished when fans line up in an orderly fashion. Said merch manager only recognizes one line. Roughly 15 minutes prior to the official start time for the merch line an older woman and her husband arrives on site, walked up and across from the established line to create their own alternate line. This couple's reasoning: ''I don't know what all you people are here for but the email said no line prior to X and I'm here at X and thus I'm at the front of the line." Again, my opinion or interpretation as compared to your opinion and interpretation of her behaviour and logic aside: the band's merch manager was advised of the situation and his thought process is very simple - in this situation he had no intention or arguing with anyone but he was simply going to deny this woman and her husband service. No shouting or fighting or cursing involved. Take it or leave it and it was on her...she ultimately left her alternate front of the line and joined the proper line at her spot.
Separately the Hollywood merch line was in a specific zone of the casino that was next to an area closed off to those not staying at the hotel property. This closed off zone was made up of some hallways which lead to the ballroom where the merch sale was to occur. Some of our fellow fans who happened to be staying at the hotel property, and I'd say it was roughly 5-10 of them, decided since they had access to circumvent security and walk up right to the ballroom entrance they'd now form the basis for what would become the merch line. Worth noting the email mentioning the approved location for the merch line did not specify this: this small group of people splintered off to do what was best for them and ignored the line which they knew had formed elsewhere. To quote one of these people "I paid a lot of money to stay here and I am entitled to line up where I want." LIke with the older couple mentioned prior the merch line crowd attempted to reason with these people, to everyone's benefit so casino security wouldn't get fed up with any arguments and toss everyone out, but to no avail. Once again the band's merch manager was advised and he proceeded to advise casino security who promptly removed this alternate ballroom line.
I'm going to go even further and share a story I had recently heard, which frankly goes against my better judgment, but I will anyway. Those fans who have spent time invested on the F2F exchange looking for tickets this current leg or several past legs since its' inception will attest to the incredibly challenging experience it's been this leg to secure tickets as compared to years past. This isn't a discussion about supply vs demand, amount of shows played, etc. more so a general understanding whereas in 2022 many more fans successfully lined up various timed drops or quick refreshes to attain tickets currently in 2025 prized reserved and GA tickets are immediately popping on scalper sites moments after being listed. What's been discovered, through fact based discussions and fairly blatant evidence, is that in addition to any scalpers currently hoarding inventory a member of the 10C community, one who is well known on the forum, one who regularly attends shows, one who has been there on the F2F exchange along with the rest of us has some unique advantages: said fan saw the chance to profit and went about to acquire a broker's license in addition to utilizing a bot to secure PJ tickets off F2F in order to immediately direct them onto scalper sites. It's not up for debate: the evidence was gathered by good, intelligent people and passed onto 10C and band management. This is first come first serve, this is capitalism, this is whatever you want to call it and I'm not going to dispute your take and input.
But these examples and others...it's all at the heart of it a Me vs We mentality. And these examples of the Me vs We mentality are the opposite of what I've seen occur at the GA lines by those who are attacked and bashed and mocked and ridiculed for choosing to line up very early. We don't like the drunk Even Bro forcing his way up front at the perfectly timed moment for a chance at the tambo pushing anyone and everyone aside including those who have earned their spot. We bash those who have earned their spot while someone else could have done so.
Forest for the trees. That's all I want to say.
The Hollywood examples are part of whats actually wrong though. The "band" will announce no pre-line ups. So those that don't know any better, will read that and think it actually means no pre lines. They'll go about their business, hangout in the casino or whatever, then when the time comes walk up to the merch line only to be told to go to the back because they weren't waiting in the non-existent pre-line.
I understand your point that they need to do something like that to maintain order. But then make that information available to everyone. Don't post one thing, then punish those who followed the rules.
For liability and security reasons and to keep fans away from private property during off hours lines are discouraged. The band clearly believes it’s up to the fans to police themselves and the vast majority of fans, whether at the GA or merch lines, have been able to do so. A vast majority of fans, whether arriving for GA or merch, will naturally seek out and congregate with the fans who showed up prior and thus contribute to the growing lines. This successfully maintained protocol has always ensured order and transition (from off onto venue property) with minimal issues. It’s the handful who ignore this community approach that always seek to benefit themselves.
Who's the scalper?
In the spirit of something we all agree on, it think it is important to point out this person as well, not just gloss over it. Honestly, I think that person should be pointed out constantly while in line. Just my $.02.
All relevant information and evidence has been forwarded to management and 10C. Not expecting any feedback until after the tour concludes. Won’t disclose the person’s identity until management and 10C have had the opportunity to react. No reason for altercations at upcoming shows either. Sit tight for now.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
How about the band just plays at the back of the venue next time, and effs with everybody's heads? The stage could be suspended in the rafters, then lowered when the lights go out. Gawd, that would be funny af!
IDK, I generally find the GA experience generally pretty great and chill—and I've camped out and been among the first 20 or so and gotten the rail, and I've stood in line a couple hours before and been a few folks back. Like, yeah, some people will be shitty, and it can get weird and chippy, but I generally find that if you just let the assholes be assholes—however you define that—then everybody around you is chiller for it. You're all within a stupid close distance anyway.
I try not to normalize asshole behavior as a general rule. That’s how we got here in the first place. It shouldn’t matter if you are camping out for the first time or the 200th time. You all would be equal. This ain’t Animal Farm which is what the system has become
Yeah, but people are gonna people. Might as well try to be a duck.
How about the band just plays at the back of the venue next time, and effs with everybody's heads? The stage could be suspended in the rafters, then lowered when the lights go out. Gawd, that would be funny af!
How about the band just plays at the back of the venue next time, and effs with everybody's heads? The stage could be suspended in the rafters, then lowered when the lights go out. Gawd, that would be funny af!
If you get triggered by weirdos/selfish behaviour then I'd suggest avoiding the really early line up for anything in society, let alone your favorite band. This cult-like behaviour isn't exclusive to Pearl Jam. It happens for other bands but also sports events, new tech devices etc.
At Hollywood N2, spent an incredible day at the ocean/beach, got to the Hard Rock and had a couple drinks, rolled into show around 8:00 and had this view. To each their own, but I feel bad for the people that spent all day in a line just to be 10 ft closer.
100%.
Can't tell you how many shows for PJ or any band that I've strolled in to GA an hour before show time and ended up in a similar spot to your photo. Better sound a few metres back anyway!
No dog in the fight here as I would never spend that much effort to be “on the rail”. But it seems to me following this entire thread that these obsessive rail people are a fucking problem. I definitely agree with everyone about bringing back the seating with the lottery rows. Although I never won the lottery it was always exciting knowing I had a chance while on the way to the box office to pick up my 10c tickets. Which also was exciting because you didn’t know where your seats were until you picked up your tickets!
Comments
1996; 9/28 New York
1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
2000: 10/17 Dallas
2003: 4/3 OKC
2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
2013: 11/16 OKC
2014: 10/8 Tulsa
2022: 9/20 OKC
2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
So buying them and selling at a profit? In the line?
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Few will get this reference, But it is funny!
Not sure why this is so difficult. Everyone was ok when the first 2 rows were lottery. This is the equivalent to that, just day of show.
It would also save the campers from themselves as they can enjoy the city they're in as there's no need to line up until like 5....
Who's opposed to this idea?
Oh to see the Doobie Brothers in a 4 row folding chair "auditorium" in their hey day.
It was 2001, back when we used AOL instant messenger. He didn’t have a computer at home and was experiencing IMing people for the first time, and thought he was talking to some hot chicks. My roommate and I bet that we at least one of those chicks would be a dude, and it was up to us to find out and prove it. We bet 2 large pizzas.
So naturally I created a fake aol account and made my profile to all the things he liked (Yankees, etc). We catfished him for about 2 or 3 weeks.
i almost felt bad eating that pizza.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
Can't tell you how many shows for PJ or any band that I've strolled in to GA an hour before show time and ended up in a similar spot to your photo. Better sound a few metres back anyway!
If the person is at every show and people have spent 24 hrs with them in a line.
Why no name?
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -