Same folks up front

pjl44

GlowGirl said:

pjl44 said:

GlowGirl said:

pjl44 said:

MayDay10 said:

I have queued up overnight once, and it was a tense atmosphere, and I definitely felt eyeballs and conspiracy the entire time.  I felt like I was an unwanted intruder.  I was in front of others, and everyone all around me knew one another.  On the way in, someone (a woman who had an aggressive conflict with someone else in the AM) behind me ran in front of me, grabbed a better spot.  I was next to her and she ended up crowbarring like 2-3 others in there and I had to stand sideways most of the night not having any room.  


I would rather the 10c trashed the entire GA system. Adds way too much tension for too many people.  It is clear there is a group who manipulate the system to snag the best seats for every single show.  At Wrigley '18 there was a nasty element too with people groping women and all that. 

Someone gonna come in here and say this story didn't happen exactly this way so no worries 

No one is saying that bad things never happen. There are always bad people mixed in with the good. Things do happen. But people are throwing blanket blame on all the front GA people when it is not like that at all. For MSG last year the guy next to me in reserved seats blew pot smoke in my face for most of the show and kept dancing in my personal space. It was a way worse experience than I ever had in GA, but I would never say we should get rid of reserved seats and make the whole venue GA so I could have moved seats if needed. Nothing is perfect but people here are dwelling on a few bad experiences as opposed to the majority of amazing experiences. 

This is a persistent problem that the 10C has addressed more than once. A sticky in the Given To Fly forum still exists. It doesn't require 100% participation to be an issue.

The dancing joint guy non-sequitir and insistence of amazing experiences backs up my other point.

My point was that bad experiences happen in the pit, they happen in reserved, they can happen anywhere inside and outside of the venue. But so can incredible experiences. 

^This is what I'm saying. It's bonkers that these folks see these GA line stories as on par with someone dancing too close to you during the show and just a thing that happens at concerts.

lexicondevil

SO MUCH drama that could easily be fixed with a random wristband lottery, just like Springsteen does at his shows. Last Springsteen show I went to, I just showed up 15 minutes before they passed out the wristbands. Came back later when they announced the start number. It was calm and organized. I didn't get lucky, but was grateful for that system.

I need the light

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

I agree with this statement. Not everyone can get to multiple shows a tour, let alone GA every single time. I’ve been lucky enough to go to several shows the last few years but have only managed to get GA twice this year. Last time was 2016 Wrigley. There’s no chance I’m gonna camp out overnight to be a few rows ahead of just walking in when the doors open. But maybe for John or others, this is the only show they’re going to and want to make it special by getting up front. One bad experience out of 50+ shows doesn’t matter as much to some as when you’ll be back in a couple days for the next one. One bad experience for those who only make it to one show sucks.

cutz

demetrios said:

on2legs said:

What did we miss? No Facebook over here. 

No FAKEbook and can't read that on my phone.

pjl44

I just looked and can't find a sticky with the Ten Club asking us to respect personal space in reserved seating 

Go Animal

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

Correct. A fellow member pointed out earlier in this thread that PJ security would rather deal with familiar faces (the devil you know), rather than people they don't "know" know (the devil you don't).

Which you could reasonably make a case for.

BUT... security is already high at these shows, and the chances of someone acting a fool at the front is the same.

Regardless of the fact if it's coming from a rail gang regular, or a newbie.

dgpj92

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

ally12

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

 Interesting take, maybe it’s too much work to have someone from PJ to stand at the venue doors post show to oversee N2 line up. At least this way, it is fair game and people can decide if staying for the N1 encores vs lining up for N2. 

I get the favouritism and such but at the end of the day we are all paying 10c members and deserve an enjoyable  experience. 

Go Animal

lexicondevil said:

SO MUCH drama that could easily be fixed with a random wristband lottery, just like Springsteen does at his shows. Last Springsteen show I went to, I just showed up 15 minutes before they passed out the wristbands. Came back later when they announced the start number. It was calm and organized. I didn't get lucky, but was grateful for that system.

☝️

iOnlyownMymind

The camping on the sidewalks shouldn’t be allowed.  The band works to help the homeless situations and then allows for their own version for queuing for shows. Only difference is they’ll be people working on their laptops next to their tent on the sidewalk. 

Go Animal

dgpj92 said:

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

"Hey, if it gets me a couple a hundred miles across the country, I'll take a shot in the mouth!"

Go Animal

iOnlyownMymind said:

The camping on the sidewalks shouldn’t be allowed.  The band works to help the homeless situations and then allows for their own version for queuing for shows. Only difference is they’ll be people working on their laptops next to their tent on the sidewalk. 

Saw a lot of that in Atlanta & Nashville this time around, and it made me feel pretty icky...

MayDay10

I think there are 2 different things being debated here.  First, is that there are bad people, who are not courteous in GA, while the same can be said in little pockets everywhere.  And there are good people everywhere too.  

Second, it is the cartel of people who are managing to acquire GA for every show on every continent for the last 10-15 years.  They leverage everything in their favor, and there have been numerous incidents and complaints for over a decade.  Most of the crap centers around queuing and the first 20-40 people in line.  


The random number cutoff system is the easiest solution and has been for a long time.  

on2legs

It's cultish behavior.  Especially the ones who believe the band needs them up front to bring them energy! 

PJNB

MayDay10 said:

I think there are 2 different things being debated here.  First, is that there are bad people, who are not courteous in GA, while the same can be said in little pockets everywhere.  And there are good people everywhere too.  

Second, it is the cartel of people who are managing to acquire GA for every show on every continent for the last 10-15 years.  They leverage everything in their favor, and there have been numerous incidents and complaints for over a decade.  Most of the crap centers around queuing and the first 20-40 people in line.  


The random number cutoff system is the easiest solution and has been for a long time.  

I would love for that to happen. They can even have a draw for each show before the tour starts. Only original ticket purchasers that want to be can be put in the draw and whatever number gets  picked they are number one in line and counts back from there. 

MayDay10

PJNB said:

MayDay10 said:

I think there are 2 different things being debated here.  First, is that there are bad people, who are not courteous in GA, while the same can be said in little pockets everywhere.  And there are good people everywhere too.  

Second, it is the cartel of people who are managing to acquire GA for every show on every continent for the last 10-15 years.  They leverage everything in their favor, and there have been numerous incidents and complaints for over a decade.  Most of the crap centers around queuing and the first 20-40 people in line.  


The random number cutoff system is the easiest solution and has been for a long time.  

I would love for that to happen. They can even have a draw for each show before the tour starts. Only original ticket purchasers that want to be can be put in the draw and whatever number gets  picked they are number one in line and counts back from there. 

I wonder if everyone in a successful 10c GA selection could be numbered.  1-2000 or whatever.  Then, a random number drawn, say 1,168.  Then 1,168 is 1st in line, followed by everyone going back to 2K, then starting again at 1.  People are advised to line up an hour or so before gates open, are placed in line orderly, then walk in.  Your number is on the e-ticket or whatever they do, much like a seat number.  

But then, would people sell their slot?  Would people accuse 10C or TM of cheating the system for premium seats?  Not sure.  Maybe do the # draw 24 hours before a show?

on2legs

MayDay10 said:

PJNB said:

MayDay10 said:

I think there are 2 different things being debated here.  First, is that there are bad people, who are not courteous in GA, while the same can be said in little pockets everywhere.  And there are good people everywhere too.  

Second, it is the cartel of people who are managing to acquire GA for every show on every continent for the last 10-15 years.  They leverage everything in their favor, and there have been numerous incidents and complaints for over a decade.  Most of the crap centers around queuing and the first 20-40 people in line.  


The random number cutoff system is the easiest solution and has been for a long time.  

I would love for that to happen. They can even have a draw for each show before the tour starts. Only original ticket purchasers that want to be can be put in the draw and whatever number gets  picked they are number one in line and counts back from there. 

I wonder if everyone in a successful 10c GA selection could be numbered.  1-2000 or whatever.  Then, a random number drawn, say 1,168.  Then 1,168 is 1st in line, followed by everyone going back to 2K, then starting again at 1.  People are advised to line up an hour or so before gates open, are placed in line orderly, then walk in.  Your number is on the e-ticket or whatever they do, much like a seat number.  

But then, would people sell their slot?  Would people accuse 10C or TM of cheating the system for premium seats?  Not sure.  Maybe do the # draw 24 hours before a show?

So many tickets change hands leading up to the show that it just seems easier to do it the day of the show with whoever ends up with the tickets. 

lexicondevil

I believe that the starting number for the Springsteen show was revealed about a half hour before they let GA in. Less time for nonsense when it's just before doors open, but enough time to get in an orderly line. It really isn't rocket science. A lot of bands do this.

darwinstheory

PJNB said:

darwinstheory said:

ally12 said:

For back to back shows like this, is it a common understanding that after N1 is done everyone who is doing GA for N2 line up at the venue gate. Everyone lines up and say wait 30 minutes for the crowds to dissipate.  After 30 mins or so, everyone who is in the GA will migrate to the camp out spot, and that’s where people will take turns to grab their gear and settle in for the night. 

Once the group migrates over to the camp out spot, whoever arrives  just lines up  behind the last camper.

Or is handled differently and for N2 goes to the camp out spot right away?  

First I've heard of it since today’s (last nights) debacle. If John hadn't gotten GA/tried for rail in the past, how could he have ever known? They should have let him stay in the #1 spot. That's the downfall of a group of people having their own unwritten rules.

The unwritten rules are less about fairness and more about them protecting their chances of being at the front of the line vs other groups. The other groups are much smaller in size too and don’t have Pearl Jams security backing them like this group does. There is no beating them and that’s why so many people join them and put up with the bullying and antics since they benefit from the above as well. 

Absolutely! Strength in numbers. Intimidate the few that may pose a threat to their spots. If youre behind them, then everything is peachy as you pose no threat to them. 

Curious to see if I spot a particular face from rail mafia on the rail tomorrow night. A face i saw wandering the halls of Ramada by 10C a short while ago.

JimmyV

Worth noting too that with each tour we see more stoppages because of people in GA needing medical assistance. It's an aging fanbase less and less suited to spend 24/48 hours outdoors waiting for doors to open.