2024 US Election - Predictions

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  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,935
    edited November 2024
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    Post edited by BF25394 on
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,395
    shecky said:
    "Drill, baby, drill!" =)
    You at a dental appointment? Maybe don't post when under the influence of laughing gas. Hope your gold teeth turn out nice. Are they made from melted Trump bitcoins?
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,749
    BF25394 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    You're a well informed voter, and my comment wasn't so much directed at you. It's one thing to vote against one's own interest when it will benefit the greater good, we should all be so pragmatic. 

    I suspect there'll be much more written about this in the coming months and maybe years. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-disinformation-defined-the-2024-election-narrative/

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,875
    BF25394 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    I agree.  As a 50 year old white male who runs a business, Trump's policies will be better for me personally.  Lowering corporate rates to 16%, dropping the marginal tax brackets, lowering cap gains... all are to my benefit.  But I don't care.  He's a repulsive human and the antithesis of everything I was taught at home and in Sunday school.  
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,534
    shecky said:
    "Drill, baby, drill!" =)
    US oil production is already at record highs under Biden. 
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,935
    Merkin Baller said:
    BF25394 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    You're a well informed voter, and my comment wasn't so much directed at you. It's one thing to vote against one's own interest when it will benefit the greater good, we should all be so pragmatic. 

    I suspect there'll be much more written about this in the coming months and maybe years. 

    https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-disinformation-defined-the-2024-election-narrative/

    The key point is that you can vote against one set of interests while voting for a different set of interests. But some people definitely do have a misinformed idea of who is looking out for their interests.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,422
    edited November 2024
    I vote for the future of the planets and animal life's interest.

    But I guess many wanna vote for racist and fascist interests ofc instead. "Oh we need more oil, because I am a piece of shit and dumb as rocks"
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,795
    mrussel1 said:
    BF25394 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    I agree.  As a 50 year old white male who runs a business, Trump's policies will be better for me personally.  Lowering corporate rates to 16%, dropping the marginal tax brackets, lowering cap gains... all are to my benefit.  But I don't care.  He's a repulsive human and the antithesis of everything I was taught at home and in Sunday school.  
    For your business do you have to import any goods?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,875
    cincybearcat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    BF25394 said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    People are missing the boat on how big a role misinformation and disinformation played in this election.

    People didn't vote against their own self interests for no reason. 
    There's nothing wrong with voting against narrowly conceived self-interest. I never vote based on what's best for me personally. I vote based on what I think is best for the greater good of the country (or state or county or city) as a whole. For example, Kamala Harris proposed to raise the tax rate on capital gains. This would be bad for me personally, but it would be a step toward a fairer tax code overall, and that would be better for everybody. Similarly, I voted for the candidate whose policies are more likely to favor women and minority groups, including LGBT individuals. I am a straight white male. These policies would not benefit me directly, but I still favor them because tolerance and non-discrimination are important values to me and I want to live in a society that reflects them. (And I think we're all better off in such a society.)

    The other part of this is that when we talk about "self-interest," we often focus too narrowly on personal economic interests. This ignores the fact that other things are also important to people, including cultural or social issues. This was the obvious rebuttal to the Thomas Frank "What's the Matter with Kansas?" inquiry, and it's something that Barack Obama was actually trying to address thoughtfully and empathetically in his famous "bitter clinger" remarks, which he got pilloried for. But his point was that, if you're someone who feels that neither party has looked out for your economic interests, you'll end up deciding your vote based on other things that are also important to you and that feel threatened to you, like gun rights or religious freedom (whether these things are actually threatened or not, there are loud voices encouraging people to believe they are threatened). 
    I agree.  As a 50 year old white male who runs a business, Trump's policies will be better for me personally.  Lowering corporate rates to 16%, dropping the marginal tax brackets, lowering cap gains... all are to my benefit.  But I don't care.  He's a repulsive human and the antithesis of everything I was taught at home and in Sunday school.  
    For your business do you have to import any goods?
    No.  I'm in financial services.  

    I mean we buy things that are imported like servers, phones, etc.  But we don't buy and sell those goods.  Higher prices for these will eat into our margins, but not in a material way.  However anything that costs a business more is one less dollar they spend on us, in theory.  

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