In support of what I said a little earlier, instead of berating a group of people we disagree with (but do berate Trump and Vance, please, they deserve it), let's get out some information that might turn some of the MAGA people around. Like, for example, this from Heather Cox Richardson's letter this evening. Make photo copies of this and pass them around:
On
Sunday, a bipartisan group of 741 national security leaders—some of the
biggest names in the field—endorsed Harris. “To the American People,”
they wrote. “We are former public servants who swore an oath to the
Constitution. Many of us risked our lives for it. We are retired
generals, admirals, senior noncommissioned officers, ambassadors, and
senior civilian national security leaders. We are Republicans,
Democrats, and Independents. We are loyal to the ideals of our
nation—like freedom, democracy, and the rule of law—not to any one
individual or party.
“We
do not agree on everything, but we all adhere to two fundamental
principles. First, we believe America’s national security requires a
serious and capable Commander-in-Chief. Second, we believe American
democracy is invaluable. Each generation has a responsibility to defend
it. That is why we, the undersigned, proudly endorse Kamala Harris to be
the next President of the United States.
“This
election is a choice between serious leadership and vengeful
impulsiveness. It is a choice between democracy and authoritarianism.
Vice President Harris defends America’s democratic ideals, while former
President Donald Trump endangers them.
“We
do not make such an assessment lightly. We are trained to make sober,
rational decisions. That is how we know Vice President Harris would make
an excellent Commander-in-Chief, while Mr. Trump has proven he is not
up to the job.”
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
She was raised a middle class kid and proud of her lawn too! And as unburdened by what has been as they come…..is why she truly believes in Bidenomics…. No wait….an opportunity economy.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Correct.
Either way, the nominee, while still likely horrible, will not be a lunatic so we won't have to bother with ridiculous bullshit like muting the microphones during debates.
They way I'm seeing things unfold is that those of us left and left leaning and who strongly believe the Democratic platform is far better than MAGA authoritarianism, we somehow think we can brow beat or force those on the right to turn away from MAGA rule. That is not going to happen. If Americans can't lessen the divide, what will result will be strife, anger, violence, and lethal violence. I don't think anyone can argue that.
I agree, but also, facts aren’t breaking through either. The only way to lessen the divide is to elect democrats, lead by example and hope those on the right see the policies enacted by democrats are beneficial to them.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Correct.
Either way, the nominee, while still likely horrible, will not be a lunatic so we won't have to bother with ridiculous bullshit like muting the microphones during debates.
They way I'm seeing things unfold is that those of us left and left leaning and who strongly believe the Democratic platform is far better than MAGA authoritarianism, we somehow think we can brow beat or force those on the right to turn away from MAGA rule. That is not going to happen. If Americans can't lessen the divide, what will result will be strife, anger, violence, and lethal violence. I don't think anyone can argue that.
I agree, but also, facts aren’t breaking through either. The only way to lessen the divide is to elect democrats, lead by example and hope those on the right see the policies enacted by democrats are beneficial to them.
Ugh, I wish I could agree with you. I don't know if you read Fox News, but it's so hard to break through the echo chamber. Right wing news has spent a generation telling its viewers only they can be trusted. And then you read the stories... they ignore stories, bury them when they are positive of the admin, economy, etc. And spin the others. It's really no wonder why so many on the right think Democrats are literally the personification of evil. Everything is so distorted.
I’ve given up on the premise that good vs evil will prevail! For him to be basically in a tie is a big red flag.
Should be a big red flag to the Democrats into their policies. Though that 30% that are true trumpers, probably doesn't matter to them, the Dems could adopt every Trump position and they'd still hate them.
For me there are some serious policy issues with the Dems...but the current GOP isn't really offering up much hope on most of these either anyhow.
I’ve given up on the premise that good vs evil will prevail! For him to be basically in a tie is a big red flag.
Should be a big red flag to the Democrats into their policies. Though that 30% that are true trumpers, probably doesn't matter to them, the Dems could adopt every Trump position and they'd still hate them.
For me there are some serious policy issues with the Dems...but the current GOP isn't really offering up much hope on most of these either anyhow.
You're right. If the D's adopted the same policies, Fox would find a way to make it negative and trash it, and the echo chamber would go right along. It's funny, Trump has been trying to court unions and what not, saying nice things. And then I think it was the SIEU endorsed Harris and Fox runs a story about how terrible unions are, basically taking the traditional anti-union positions of the GOP. It's really absurd.
I’ve given up on the premise that good vs evil will prevail! For him to be basically in a tie is a big red flag.
Should be a big red flag to the Democrats into their policies. Though that 30% that are true trumpers, probably doesn't matter to them, the Dems could adopt every Trump position and they'd still hate them.
For me there are some serious policy issues with the Dems...but the current GOP isn't really offering up much hope on most of these either anyhow.
You're right. If the D's adopted the same policies, Fox would find a way to make it negative and trash it, and the echo chamber would go right along. It's funny, Trump has been trying to court unions and what not, saying nice things. And then I think it was the SIEU endorsed Harris and Fox runs a story about how terrible unions are, basically taking the traditional anti-union positions of the GOP. It's really absurd.
The day after the Fed had their rate cut, they were running stories about an impending recession... But I noticed they had the ticker turned off showing record highs. So incredibly manipulative.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Correct.
Either way, the nominee, while still likely horrible, will not be a lunatic so we won't have to bother with ridiculous bullshit like muting the microphones during debates.
They way I'm seeing things unfold is that those of us left and left leaning and who strongly believe the Democratic platform is far better than MAGA authoritarianism, we somehow think we can brow beat or force those on the right to turn away from MAGA rule. That is not going to happen. If Americans can't lessen the divide, what will result will be strife, anger, violence, and lethal violence. I don't think anyone can argue that.
I agree, but also, facts aren’t breaking through either. The only way to lessen the divide is to elect democrats, lead by example and hope those on the right see the policies enacted by democrats are beneficial to them.
Ugh, I wish I could agree with you. I don't know if you read Fox News, but it's so hard to break through the echo chamber. Right wing news has spent a generation telling its viewers only they can be trusted. And then you read the stories... they ignore stories, bury them when they are positive of the admin, economy, etc. And spin the others. It's really no wonder why so many on the right think Democrats are literally the personification of evil. Everything is so distorted.
Try going to church. It’s not just Faux News. It’s the pulpit too.
And how the fuck is a “normal” repub candidate going to appeal to that POOTWH base, after POOTWH is finished and everything returns to “normal,” and win the repub nomination to be the party’s candidate for POTUS? Keep dreaming.
‘Get them the hell out’: Trump continues attacks on immigrants in Ohio town
The former president made the comments about Springfield, Ohio, during a campaign rally Monday in Pennsylvania.
Former president Donald Trumpcontinued attacking the immigrant population in an Ohio town during a campaign rally Monday in Pennsylvania, saying, “You have to get them the hell out.”
As Trump spoke in Indiana, Pa., the crowd chanted, “Send them back!”
For weeks now, Trump has singled out Springfield, Ohio, over its Haitian population, echoing baseless claims that immigrants are eating pets and calling the immigrants illegal, despite their legal status. His attacks have upended life in the small town, where the Republican mayor has pleaded for civility amid bomb threats and event cancellations for security reasons.
Trump made his latest comments about Springfield at Monday’s rally while accusing Democrats of wanting to “inundate Pennsylvania communities” with migrants, “changing the character of small towns and villages all over our country and changing them forever.”
“Do you think Springfield will ever be the same?” Trump said. “The fact is — and I’ll say it now — you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I’m sorry. Get them out. Can’t have it. … They’ve destroyed it.”
After the chants, Trump added: “It’s terrible to say, and it’s a tough thing to do.”
Trump has long promised mass deportations in his 2024 campaign for the White House, though he has not provided much detail. And his comments Monday appeared to continue conflating the situation in Springfield with concerns about illegal immigration.
“What’s going on in Springfield is just fundamentally different,” Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R) said in a recent TV interview. “These people are here legally. They came to work. These are good people.”
DeWine previously said the bomb threats the city faced were “unfounded” and that many came from overseas. They nonetheless disrupted daily life in Springfield, forcing evacuations and lockdowns in schools, hospitals and city hall. DeWine dispatched state troopers to beef up security at Springfield schools, saying they will “help ease some of the fears caused by these hoaxes.”
Springfield’s mayor, Rob Rue, said Monday that residents are “still feeling anxiety from what their city has been put under since” the Sept. 10 debate in which Trump falsely claimed that Haitian immigrants there are “eating the pets.”
“We’ve asked before — and we’ll continue to ask — we need help, not hate,” Rue told MSNBC in an interview. “We need peace, and I’m asking the leaders on the national stage to speak well of our city and to understand the weight of their words and the impact it has had on our city.”
Growing emotional later in the interview, Rue said it has “been a very stressful time.”
Lets say ejecting all the illegal immigrants is even feasible and they accomplish that, the lack of forsight of the damage it would do to the economy (especially combined with the presidential EO of up to 20% tariffs on $3 trillion of imported goods), is unimaginable. And it speaks to how visceral and under educated his base is to not even consider that they would be hurt the most.
Lets say ejecting all the illegal immigrants is even feasible and they accomplish that, the lack of forsight of the damage it would do to the economy (especially combined with the presidential EO of up to 20% tariffs on $3 trillion of imported goods), is unimaginable. And it speaks to how visceral and under educated his base is to not even consider that they would be hurt the most.
Don’t worry though, they’re going to vote for a “normal” candidate next time around so there can be “normal” debates again. It’s the messaging, not the messenger.
In my opinion, all she had to do was get out there ahead of him and say "I'm game, see you there!" -- which I believe she did.
I think we should do away with "debates" in their current format altogether, as the spectacles we see resemble pro wrestling more than serious policy discussions. "Town halls" with voters asking questions, or, better, the moderator(s) asking questions that were submitted by voters, would be better, I think. That's assuming that we want to learn more about candidate platforms, which is assuming a lot.
It is only like that because of Trump. Once we are done with maga and republicans go back to nominating more rational people it will not seem like a pro wrestling event.
Think back just a few election cycles. I am sure you did not feel this way about debates when Obama and Romney were up there. Two normal rational people who simply disagreed with each other on just about everything.
Not quite. I was disappointed in how Romney twisted himself to appeal to the GOP base, and I was disgusted with the way the base (in primary debates) behaved. Now, in support of your point, I recall flipping channels in 2016 and stumbling upon a C-Span rebroadcast of a Carter-Ford debate from the dark ages. Both men were seated at a table with a moderator in what appeared to be a TV studio, no audience, everyone using their inside voices. I wouldn't mind a return to that!
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Correct.
Either way, the nominee, while still likely horrible, will not be a lunatic so we won't have to bother with ridiculous bullshit like muting the microphones during debates.
I'm not as optimistic. I fully anticipate Tucker Carlson as the 2028 nominee, assuming KFC and the actuarial tables have had their say with the orange one. He's craven, awful, and much smarter than the current batch of tools.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
I’ve given up on the premise that good vs evil will prevail! For him to be basically in a tie is a big red flag.
Should be a big red flag to the Democrats into their policies. Though that 30% that are true trumpers, probably doesn't matter to them, the Dems could adopt every Trump position and they'd still hate them.
For me there are some serious policy issues with the Dems...but the current GOP isn't really offering up much hope on most of these either anyhow.
You're right. If the D's adopted the same policies, Fox would find a way to make it negative and trash it, and the echo chamber would go right along. It's funny, Trump has been trying to court unions and what not, saying nice things. And then I think it was the SIEU endorsed Harris and Fox runs a story about how terrible unions are, basically taking the traditional anti-union positions of the GOP. It's really absurd.
The day after the Fed had their rate cut, they were running stories about an impending recession... But I noticed they had the ticker turned off showing record highs. So incredibly manipulative.
Great example... they do that shit every single day.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Without Trump as the head you’ll see splintered MAGA. They may coalesce around a candidate around election time, but the movement will lose steam without him at the controls. His cult of personality really drives excitement in the movement (and as we’ve seen this year, even that excitement is starting to dwindle). It’s changed conservatism for a generation, but it’s not a permanent feature.
Correct.
Either way, the nominee, while still likely horrible, will not be a lunatic so we won't have to bother with ridiculous bullshit like muting the microphones during debates.
They way I'm seeing things unfold is that those of us left and left leaning and who strongly believe the Democratic platform is far better than MAGA authoritarianism, we somehow think we can brow beat or force those on the right to turn away from MAGA rule. That is not going to happen. If Americans can't lessen the divide, what will result will be strife, anger, violence, and lethal violence. I don't think anyone can argue that.
I agree, but also, facts aren’t breaking through either. The only way to lessen the divide is to elect democrats, lead by example and hope those on the right see the policies enacted by democrats are beneficial to them.
Ugh, I wish I could agree with you. I don't know if you read Fox News, but it's so hard to break through the echo chamber. Right wing news has spent a generation telling its viewers only they can be trusted. And then you read the stories... they ignore stories, bury them when they are positive of the admin, economy, etc. And spin the others. It's really no wonder why so many on the right think Democrats are literally the personification of evil. Everything is so distorted.
Try going to church. It’s not just Faux News. It’s the pulpit too.
As a Catholic, I don't go to Church. But I will say on teh few times that I do, it tends not to be political. I'm sure if I lived in Alabama, the Protestant faiths would be a different story.
Lets say ejecting all the illegal immigrants is even feasible and they accomplish that, the lack of forsight of the damage it would do to the economy (especially combined with the presidential EO of up to 20% tariffs on $3 trillion of imported goods), is unimaginable. And it speaks to how visceral and under educated his base is to not even consider that they would be hurt the most.
Wait until they find out that they get to be roofers and poultry processing plant workers now!
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Lets say ejecting all the illegal immigrants is even feasible and they accomplish that, the lack of forsight of the damage it would do to the economy (especially combined with the presidential EO of up to 20% tariffs on $3 trillion of imported goods), is unimaginable. And it speaks to how visceral and under educated his base is to not even consider that they would be hurt the most.
Wait until they find out that they get to be roofers and poultry processing plant workers now!
Lack of foresight or planning is a core value of the current MAGA contingent. These people love to say Take America Back, but ask them what that means and no one can explain actionable change that would benefit GDP or day-to-day living.
Lets say ejecting all the illegal immigrants is even feasible and they accomplish that, the lack of forsight of the damage it would do to the economy (especially combined with the presidential EO of up to 20% tariffs on $3 trillion of imported goods), is unimaginable. And it speaks to how visceral and under educated his base is to not even consider that they would be hurt the most.
Wait until they find out that they get to be roofers and poultry processing plant workers now!
Lack of foresight or planning is a core value of the current MAGA contingent. These people love to say Take America Back, but ask them what that means and no one can explain actionable change that would benefit GDP or day-to-day living.
Cardinal Dolan on Kamala Harris snubbing the Catholic
community by skipping the Al Smith charity dinner: "This hasn’t happened
in 40 years since Walter Mondale turned down the invitation. And remember, he
lost 49 out of 50 states."
Comments
On Sunday, a bipartisan group of 741 national security leaders—some of the biggest names in the field—endorsed Harris. “To the American People,” they wrote. “We are former public servants who swore an oath to the Constitution. Many of us risked our lives for it. We are retired generals, admirals, senior noncommissioned officers, ambassadors, and senior civilian national security leaders. We are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. We are loyal to the ideals of our nation—like freedom, democracy, and the rule of law—not to any one individual or party.
“We do not agree on everything, but we all adhere to two fundamental principles. First, we believe America’s national security requires a serious and capable Commander-in-Chief. Second, we believe American democracy is invaluable. Each generation has a responsibility to defend it. That is why we, the undersigned, proudly endorse Kamala Harris to be the next President of the United States.
“This election is a choice between serious leadership and vengeful impulsiveness. It is a choice between democracy and authoritarianism. Vice President Harris defends America’s democratic ideals, while former President Donald Trump endangers them.
“We do not make such an assessment lightly. We are trained to make sober, rational decisions. That is how we know Vice President Harris would make an excellent Commander-in-Chief, while Mr. Trump has proven he is not up to the job.”
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAQ3WtPOhMR/?igsh=a3BhbWVxaWhvdWRw
For me there are some serious policy issues with the Dems...but the current GOP isn't really offering up much hope on most of these either anyhow.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
‘Get them the hell out’: Trump continues attacks on immigrants in Ohio town
The former president made the comments about Springfield, Ohio, during a campaign rally Monday in Pennsylvania.
Former president Donald Trumpcontinued attacking the immigrant population in an Ohio town during a campaign rally Monday in Pennsylvania, saying, “You have to get them the hell out.”
As Trump spoke in Indiana, Pa., the crowd chanted, “Send them back!”
For weeks now, Trump has singled out Springfield, Ohio, over its Haitian population, echoing baseless claims that immigrants are eating pets and calling the immigrants illegal, despite their legal status. His attacks have upended life in the small town, where the Republican mayor has pleaded for civility amid bomb threats and event cancellations for security reasons.
Trump made his latest comments about Springfield at Monday’s rally while accusing Democrats of wanting to “inundate Pennsylvania communities” with migrants, “changing the character of small towns and villages all over our country and changing them forever.”
“Do you think Springfield will ever be the same?” Trump said. “The fact is — and I’ll say it now — you have to get them the hell out. You have to get them out. I’m sorry. Get them out. Can’t have it. … They’ve destroyed it.”
Trump’s campaign promoted a video clip of Trump’s comments on X.
After the chants, Trump added: “It’s terrible to say, and it’s a tough thing to do.”
Trump has long promised mass deportations in his 2024 campaign for the White House, though he has not provided much detail. And his comments Monday appeared to continue conflating the situation in Springfield with concerns about illegal immigration.
“What’s going on in Springfield is just fundamentally different,” Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine (R) said in a recent TV interview. “These people are here legally. They came to work. These are good people.”
DeWine previously said the bomb threats the city faced were “unfounded” and that many came from overseas. They nonetheless disrupted daily life in Springfield, forcing evacuations and lockdowns in schools, hospitals and city hall. DeWine dispatched state troopers to beef up security at Springfield schools, saying they will “help ease some of the fears caused by these hoaxes.”
Springfield’s mayor, Rob Rue, said Monday that residents are “still feeling anxiety from what their city has been put under since” the Sept. 10 debate in which Trump falsely claimed that Haitian immigrants there are “eating the pets.”
“We’ve asked before — and we’ll continue to ask — we need help, not hate,” Rue told MSNBC in an interview. “We need peace, and I’m asking the leaders on the national stage to speak well of our city and to understand the weight of their words and the impact it has had on our city.”
Growing emotional later in the interview, Rue said it has “been a very stressful time.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/09/24/trump-springfield-continued-attacks/
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not quite. I was disappointed in how Romney twisted himself to appeal to the GOP base, and I was disgusted with the way the base (in primary debates) behaved. Now, in support of your point, I recall flipping channels in 2016 and stumbling upon a C-Span rebroadcast of a Carter-Ford debate from the dark ages. Both men were seated at a table with a moderator in what appeared to be a TV studio, no audience, everyone using their inside voices. I wouldn't mind a return to that!
I'm not as optimistic. I fully anticipate Tucker Carlson as the 2028 nominee, assuming KFC and the actuarial tables have had their say with the orange one. He's craven, awful, and much smarter than the current batch of tools.
Wait until they find out that they get to be roofers and poultry processing plant workers now!
Edit: They'd actually just say less brown people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_the_Black_Man
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Cardinal Dolan on Kamala Harris snubbing the Catholic community by skipping the Al Smith charity dinner: "This hasn’t happened in 40 years since Walter Mondale turned down the invitation. And remember, he lost 49 out of 50 states."
Maybe Harris will reconsider...