London show selling terribly?

Gern Blansten

Adam Hewett said:

I am not 100% convinced it is solely ticket pricing. 

The band is 30+ years old at this point. They're a legacy band, and they're popular, but they are not on the rise commercially anymore, and the fanbase that remains is (per their own words) the fanbase they've always wanted.

McCready had a comment in PJ20 about Neil Young saying you can stay true to your craft as long as you're open to sometimes drawing big numbers (arenas, stadiums) but also drawing smaller numbers (amps, theaters).

Is it that crazy that maybe Pearl Jam is not solely an arena or stadium band these days? Yes, people and media will always pay attention (somewhat) to a new album release. They most likely will sell 50k–100k per record, and hopefully their streaming numbers will stay consistent. Clearly, there will always be a live draw, but maybe we're starting to see a shift in the overall capacity.

Is Pearl Jam open to realizing this change Neil discussed? Why attempt 40k stadiums when you could do a 14k–18k capacity arena? Multiple nights at bigger market arenas and theaters?

Well let's see...they've sold out two nights at Wrigley and I assume the same at Fenway.

Noblesville was a sell out with at least 24000 tickets sold and they would likely sell a whole lot more if capacity was higher.

Probably not a stadium band but the only stadium show they have is London

ilockyer

pdalowsky said:

Adam Hewett said:

I am not 100% convinced it is solely ticket pricing. 

The band is 30+ years old at this point. They're a legacy band, and they're popular, but they are not on the rise commercially anymore, and the fanbase that remains is (per their own words) the fanbase they've always wanted.

McCready had a comment in PJ20 about Neil Young saying you can stay true to your craft as long as you're open to sometimes drawing big numbers (arenas, stadiums) but also drawing smaller numbers (amps, theaters).
...
Is Pearl Jam open to realizing this change Neil discussed? Why attempt 40k stadiums when you could do a 14k–18k capacity arena? Multiple nights at bigger market arenas and theaters?

TBH I really hope so as stadiums suck 

I do wonder, they seem to keep having a go at stadiums/large outdoor sized venues, with varied levels of success. It's possible it's just a few that they wanted to play before they're done; I can't believe they'd not want to have a go at Wembley Stadium before they put their amps away for the last time.
On the 2007 Dusseldorf was supposed to be the football stadium and downsized to arena, Katowice was a stadium (on a co-headline bill). 
2010 had Hyde Park and Goffertpark in Nijmegen.
2014 they seemed to really go for it, booking San Siro/Friends Arena/Milton Keynes (all of which were 60K+) and Trieste (admittedly a much smaller setup) alongside traditional arena sized venues.
2018 they took on the Olympic Stadium in Rome. Smaller stadium in Padua too. 

If they wanted to do Wembley one day, they'd have to price it sensibly, announce it a good time in advance, and make it an only European appearance of the year. 

BrainofBGA

Gern Blansten said:

Adam Hewett said:

I am not 100% convinced it is solely ticket pricing. 

The band is 30+ years old at this point. They're a legacy band, and they're popular, but they are not on the rise commercially anymore, and the fanbase that remains is (per their own words) the fanbase they've always wanted.

McCready had a comment in PJ20 about Neil Young saying you can stay true to your craft as long as you're open to sometimes drawing big numbers (arenas, stadiums) but also drawing smaller numbers (amps, theaters).

Is it that crazy that maybe Pearl Jam is not solely an arena or stadium band these days? Yes, people and media will always pay attention (somewhat) to a new album release. They most likely will sell 50k–100k per record, and hopefully their streaming numbers will stay consistent. Clearly, there will always be a live draw, but maybe we're starting to see a shift in the overall capacity.

Is Pearl Jam open to realizing this change Neil discussed? Why attempt 40k stadiums when you could do a 14k–18k capacity arena? Multiple nights at bigger market arenas and theaters?

Well let's see...they've sold out two nights at Wrigley and I assume the same at Fenway.

Noblesville was a sell out with at least 24000 tickets sold and they would likely sell a whole lot more if capacity was higher.

Probably not a stadium band but the only stadium show they have is London

The Australian tour is definitely stadiums, which I’m disappointed at. The Melbourne show if sold out should have more than 40k and there is a second on sale. Having said that it’s been 10 years and there is a thirst here to see them live. I’d say there are some travellers coming from interstate (Perth, Adelaide etc) and plenty of casual fans will turn up to see them as it’s been too long and they know the big hits. 

vedpunk

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

Zod

ilockyer said:

pdalowsky said:

Adam Hewett said:

I am not 100% convinced it is solely ticket pricing. 

The band is 30+ years old at this point. They're a legacy band, and they're popular, but they are not on the rise commercially anymore, and the fanbase that remains is (per their own words) the fanbase they've always wanted.

McCready had a comment in PJ20 about Neil Young saying you can stay true to your craft as long as you're open to sometimes drawing big numbers (arenas, stadiums) but also drawing smaller numbers (amps, theaters).
...
Is Pearl Jam open to realizing this change Neil discussed? Why attempt 40k stadiums when you could do a 14k–18k capacity arena? Multiple nights at bigger market arenas and theaters?

TBH I really hope so as stadiums suck 

I do wonder, they seem to keep having a go at stadiums/large outdoor sized venues, with varied levels of success. It's possible it's just a few that they wanted to play before they're done; I can't believe they'd not want to have a go at Wembley Stadium before they put their amps away for the last time.
On the 2007 Dusseldorf was supposed to be the football stadium and downsized to arena, Katowice was a stadium (on a co-headline bill). 
2010 had Hyde Park and Goffertpark in Nijmegen.
2014 they seemed to really go for it, booking San Siro/Friends Arena/Milton Keynes (all of which were 60K+) and Trieste (admittedly a much smaller setup) alongside traditional arena sized venues.
2018 they took on the Olympic Stadium in Rome. Smaller stadium in Padua too. 

If they wanted to do Wembley one day, they'd have to price it sensibly, announce it a good time in advance, and make it an only European appearance of the year. 

Haven't they already done Wembley?  Maybe they aren't worried about it?  Plus it holds over 100,000 people... that's a lot of people

lastexitlondon

Wembley arena. Is much smaller 

Zen23

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

We know how the new ticket system works. Anyone who is surprised by dynamic pricing and deliberately withheld tickets in 2024 has missed something. And inflation is nothing new to anyone either.

What we have never experienced here, however, is the impertinence of charging this unusually high ticket price of €175 for Germany and €190 for the UK as a standard price. No matter which section you sit in. I've never experienced that at a concert before. And I've been to a lot of pre-sales for myself, friends and family in the last two years. Tool, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Bruce Springsteen, Beyoncé, Slipknot, Coldplay. I've never seen the upper tier cost as much as the lower tier. Why would that be?

I know that they have now adjusted the prices (too late). But the damage has already been done.

stones

Zen23 said:

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

We know how the new ticket system works. Anyone who is surprised by dynamic pricing and deliberately withheld tickets in 2024 has missed something. And inflation is nothing new to anyone either.

What we have never experienced here, however, is the impertinence of charging this unusually high ticket price of €175 for Germany and €190 for the UK as a standard price. No matter which section you sit in. I've never experienced that at a concert before. And I've been to a lot of pre-sales for myself, friends and family in the last two years. Tool, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Bruce Springsteen, Beyoncé, Slipknot, Coldplay. I've never seen the upper tier cost as much as the lower tier. Why would that be?

I know that they have now adjusted the prices (too late). But the damage has already been done.

You make a fair point. When I saw Guns n Roses at the same Tottenham stadium, I actually paid more for my tickets than I did for Pearl Jam. But I chose to pay extra to be in the golden circle. That was my choice. With Pearl Jam I entered the 10c lottery and was drawn for the “Front Standing” area which is effectively the same golden circle, and like I said these tickets are cheaper than GnR were a couple of years ago.

But the counterpoint to that was that for GnR I bought through the public sale and I could’ve sat in the upper tier for way less, or pretty much anywhere else in the stadium for a range of prices. Including some Premium seats in the best blocks closest to the stage for inflated prices. The difference is that there was a range of prices available depending on how good the seats were. For PJ there seems to have been a pretty flat pricing structure where even the crappy seats cost as much as the golden circle, and it all changed too late in the day to make much of a difference.

pdalowsky

Zod said:

ilockyer said:

pdalowsky said:

Adam Hewett said:

I am not 100% convinced it is solely ticket pricing. 

The band is 30+ years old at this point. They're a legacy band, and they're popular, but they are not on the rise commercially anymore, and the fanbase that remains is (per their own words) the fanbase they've always wanted.

McCready had a comment in PJ20 about Neil Young saying you can stay true to your craft as long as you're open to sometimes drawing big numbers (arenas, stadiums) but also drawing smaller numbers (amps, theaters).
...
Is Pearl Jam open to realizing this change Neil discussed? Why attempt 40k stadiums when you could do a 14k–18k capacity arena? Multiple nights at bigger market arenas and theaters?

TBH I really hope so as stadiums suck 

I do wonder, they seem to keep having a go at stadiums/large outdoor sized venues, with varied levels of success. It's possible it's just a few that they wanted to play before they're done; I can't believe they'd not want to have a go at Wembley Stadium before they put their amps away for the last time.
On the 2007 Dusseldorf was supposed to be the football stadium and downsized to arena, Katowice was a stadium (on a co-headline bill). 
2010 had Hyde Park and Goffertpark in Nijmegen.
2014 they seemed to really go for it, booking San Siro/Friends Arena/Milton Keynes (all of which were 60K+) and Trieste (admittedly a much smaller setup) alongside traditional arena sized venues.
2018 they took on the Olympic Stadium in Rome. Smaller stadium in Padua too. 

If they wanted to do Wembley one day, they'd have to price it sensibly, announce it a good time in advance, and make it an only European appearance of the year. 

Haven't they already done Wembley?  Maybe they aren't worried about it?  Plus it holds over 100,000 people... that's a lot of people

No never. Ed played it when the Who played, but it was half full at best when he was on, and it didnt quote work as a result. The who crowd turned up on time of course and it was packed, Ed came out for a track or two so at least experienced a packed out Wembley at that point. 

I can definitely see the pull of Wembley for a band, to look out at so many people when the sun goes down......and that stadium is impressive in itself. Green Day have that place almost sold out next week and I'd love to be there but when it comes to that clash there was only ever one winner for me. 

I also see the pull of Glastonbury - purely for the heritage of that festival, although its as far removed from a rock festival now than it ever was and I really would question if a band like PJ is the right band for the typical audience that goes to the farm now. When I saw Radiohead headline there in 1997 it was one of the most spell binding live experiences of my life. RATM too. 

Sadly the make up of Glasto has totally done an about turn, and its hard not to notice that the crowds are more up for Jay Z, Stormzy, and Billy Eyelash than Springsteen and GNR.......

A mini residency at Leeds Arena though? Now that would be heaven. That is a seriously impressive music venue. 

pdalowsky

stones said:

Zen23 said:

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

We know how the new ticket system works. Anyone who is surprised by dynamic pricing and deliberately withheld tickets in 2024 has missed something. And inflation is nothing new to anyone either.

What we have never experienced here, however, is the impertinence of charging this unusually high ticket price of €175 for Germany and €190 for the UK as a standard price. No matter which section you sit in. I've never experienced that at a concert before. And I've been to a lot of pre-sales for myself, friends and family in the last two years. Tool, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Bruce Springsteen, Beyoncé, Slipknot, Coldplay. I've never seen the upper tier cost as much as the lower tier. Why would that be?

I know that they have now adjusted the prices (too late). But the damage has already been done.

You make a fair point. When I saw Guns n Roses at the same Tottenham stadium, I actually paid more for my tickets than I did for Pearl Jam. But I chose to pay extra to be in the golden circle. That was my choice. With Pearl Jam I entered the 10c lottery and was drawn for the “Front Standing” area which is effectively the same golden circle, and like I said these tickets are cheaper than GnR were a couple of years ago.

But the counterpoint to that was that for GnR I bought through the public sale and I could’ve sat in the upper tier for way less, or pretty much anywhere else in the stadium for a range of prices. Including some Premium seats in the best blocks closest to the stage for inflated prices. The difference is that there was a range of prices available depending on how good the seats were. For PJ there seems to have been a pretty flat pricing structure where even the crappy seats cost as much as the golden circle, and it all changed too late in the day to make much of a difference.

Did the same, although mine was the West Ham stadium a few years earlier. It was phenomenal and I had no regrets dropping £185 for that

pdalowsky

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

I totally see your point but it absolutely does mean that they can't play those stadiums if folk are not prepared to pay in their masses. 

Personally I'd pay double. It is what it is, and I know it'll be the best night of my year. This new album is something I cannot wait to hear live, its an absolute beast of a record. 

But if that doesnt apply to the more casual fan, then we are at a point that such venues are not viable. Naturally Im a little surprised that Green Day are a bigger draw than PJ, but it is what it is. When you find you can still connect with the radio listening public it definitely widens your audience somewhat - I think the Chilis have been beneficiaries of this also

Zen23

stones said:

Zen23 said:

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

We know how the new ticket system works. Anyone who is surprised by dynamic pricing and deliberately withheld tickets in 2024 has missed something. And inflation is nothing new to anyone either.

What we have never experienced here, however, is the impertinence of charging this unusually high ticket price of €175 for Germany and €190 for the UK as a standard price. No matter which section you sit in. I've never experienced that at a concert before. And I've been to a lot of pre-sales for myself, friends and family in the last two years. Tool, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Bruce Springsteen, Beyoncé, Slipknot, Coldplay. I've never seen the upper tier cost as much as the lower tier. Why would that be?

I know that they have now adjusted the prices (too late). But the damage has already been done.

You make a fair point. When I saw Guns n Roses at the same Tottenham stadium, I actually paid more for my tickets than I did for Pearl Jam. But I chose to pay extra to be in the golden circle. That was my choice. With Pearl Jam I entered the 10c lottery and was drawn for the “Front Standing” area which is effectively the same golden circle, and like I said these tickets are cheaper than GnR were a couple of years ago.

But the counterpoint to that was that for GnR I bought through the public sale and I could’ve sat in the upper tier for way less, or pretty much anywhere else in the stadium for a range of prices. Including some Premium seats in the best blocks closest to the stage for inflated prices. The difference is that there was a range of prices available depending on how good the seats were. For PJ there seems to have been a pretty flat pricing structure where even the crappy seats cost as much as the golden circle, and it all changed too late in the day to make much of a difference.

You are absolutely right. With every word.

Some forum members here think I'm stingy. That I'm not willing to pay 50 euros more for my absolute favorite band. That I think 175 euros is too much for a concert ticket.

All total nonsense. Because I paid the higher price. And not just for one concert. And I don't consider the 175 euros to be excessively outrageous for a seat in the lower tier reasonably close to the stage. But people rightly like to have the choice of which seat they are prepared to pay how much for. And if they are not prepared to pay around 200 euros for a great seat right at the front, then they have the choice of paying less for an inferior seat further away. At least that's how it works with all the other artists I know.

If they had a fair price scale of 175 - 130 - 95 euros for the lower, middle and upper tiers (using the example of Berlin) like everyone else from the outset, there would be at least 2,000 fewer posts in this forum since February. Mine included. And most importantly, the concerts would be sold out.

ilockyer

pdalowsky said:

I also see the pull of Glastonbury - purely for the heritage of that festival, although its as far removed from a rock festival now than it ever was and I really would question if a band like PJ is the right band for the typical audience that goes to the farm now. When I saw Radiohead headline there in 1997 it was one of the most spell binding live experiences of my life. RATM too. 

Sadly the make up of Glasto has totally done an about turn, and its hard not to notice that the crowds are more up for Jay Z, Stormzy, and Billy Eyelash than Springsteen and GNR.......

A mini residency at Leeds Arena though? Now that would be heaven. That is a seriously impressive music venue. 

2010 was the year for them to play if it was going to happen, they were here, Glastonbury had lost U2. That said, Muse playing for expenses only (as Coldplay do) probably meant anyone else was going to be a non starter. 

Glastonbury don't pay very well, historically relying on the drive in album sales to make up for what a band loses in taking a smaller fee (a model I think they will need to review soon). I don't see PJ playing a festival for less than their fee, not with this new management who seem very "out of touch". I like the fact it's gone a bit more diverse in the type of headliners it pulls, there's so much going on that to not feel drawn to having to be in front of the Pyramid because of FOMO. 

Sign me up for that Leeds residency, unless we can have one at Wuhlheide too. 

pdalowsky

ilockyer said:

pdalowsky said:

I also see the pull of Glastonbury - purely for the heritage of that festival, although its as far removed from a rock festival now than it ever was and I really would question if a band like PJ is the right band for the typical audience that goes to the farm now. When I saw Radiohead headline there in 1997 it was one of the most spell binding live experiences of my life. RATM too. 

Sadly the make up of Glasto has totally done an about turn, and its hard not to notice that the crowds are more up for Jay Z, Stormzy, and Billy Eyelash than Springsteen and GNR.......

A mini residency at Leeds Arena though? Now that would be heaven. That is a seriously impressive music venue. 

2010 was the year for them to play if it was going to happen, they were here, Glastonbury had lost U2. That said, Muse playing for expenses only (as Coldplay do) probably meant anyone else was going to be a non starter. 

Glastonbury don't pay very well, historically relying on the drive in album sales to make up for what a band loses in taking a smaller fee (a model I think they will need to review soon). I don't see PJ playing a festival for less than their fee, not with this new management who seem very "out of touch". I like the fact it's gone a bit more diverse in the type of headliners it pulls, there's so much going on that to not feel drawn to having to be in front of the Pyramid because of FOMO. 

Sign me up for that Leeds residency, unless we can have one at Wuhlheide too. 

Yeah I was reading an interview a week or so with an artist (I forget the name) who had declined Glastonbury because the fee was far less than it would cost her to actually go with her crew. She was basically saying whilst that might work for headliners with huge audience reach, its not a gamble she could afford to take. That this is her job, and to pay to go work makes very little sense.

Yeah that's not an attractive proposition - especially considering the Glastonbury ticket is the priciest in the land when it comes to Fests. 

It was always a phenomenal weekend however until about 10 years ago when, for me at least, it went down the toilet. I thought it totally lost its identity, the type of crowd it attracted was  a total turn off and it became a huge corporate event. A classic victim of its own success, however not that theyve felt that in terms of demand or its ever increasing popularity. The hype is still very much there. 

Tjm007

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

Salty - but £180 better off and zero FOMO.

benlw86

Reading and Leeds are far better aligned to PJ than Glastonbury (the line-ups for which have been a bit garbage recently) - even if Reading is largely teenagers, they're usually up for any good band that hits them. The European festivals are even more appropriate though as Rock AM, Rock Werchter would more gladly appreciate PJ. In my experience having lived on both sides of The Channel/La Manica, Brits either don't know who PJ are or consider them dad rock, whereas Europeans appreciate them in the same way US does. 

pdalowsky

benlw86 said:

Reading and Leeds are far better aligned to PJ than Glastonbury (the line-ups for which have been a bit garbage recently) - even if Reading is largely teenagers, they're usually up for any good band that hits them. The European festivals are even more appropriate though as Rock AM, Rock Werchter would more gladly appreciate PJ. In my experience having lived on both sides of The Channel/La Manica, Brits either don't know who PJ are or consider them dad rock, whereas Europeans appreciate them in the same way US does. 

The line up in 2006 when PJ headlined was insanely good. That was a truely amazing day out. 

Less Than Jake, Placebo, Serj Tankian, Slayer, my chemical romance....even mastodon 

Spiritual_Chaos

vedpunk said:

Just because Europe is salty and doesn’t know how the new ticket game works doesn’t mean the band can’t play large arenas and certain stadiums around the world.  They are still a very large draw for many people and the new album is absolute 🔥 live.  Kinda sad and unfortunate they’ll miss an amazing show with new production to protest an extra $50 or so to stick it to the man.  Meanwhile the price of absolutely everything has been inflated around them. 

No need to come in with a shitty attitude, because of some inherit jealousy about Europe having had decent ticket prices without a "game" associated to them, based on sound social democratic values.

Wreckage

As predicted by many, there is now a ballot for free tickets on Concert for Carers for London (must work for the NHS or be a care worker).

Link: https://www.concertsforcarers.org.uk/

pdalowsky

Wreckage said:

As predicted by many, there is now a ballot for free tickets on Concert for Carers for London (must work for the NHS or be a care worker).

Link: https://www.concertsforcarers.org.uk/

Lets hope it gets the place filled up