Brad have you considered an annual subscription based option now that the Shopify store affords you a more stable online presence? I still have your Judge art print and absolutely love it. Seeing as how you don’t need to offer it via a 3rd party if might be a feasible revenue stream? Here’s hoping.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
the supply and demand aspect.... you'll never know the full demand... you could say the band could take pre orders but then what about all the people who aren't part of the ten club, who just show up to the concert and walk past the merch tables and go "on hey cool poster, I am going to buy one"... so if you only print enough for those who pre ordered them, the band misses out on possible sales from any one who didn't pre order and the fan who didn't know they had to pre order one misses out... and the pre order would most likely be done without getting to see the poster first hand, so if you pre-ordered and got a design you truly did not like, you'd be mad you paid for it.
if you print say 10,000... what if the design doesn't resonate with people and they don't sell well, then you are stuck with and paid for posters you can't sell. There's stacks of old posters that didn't sell well at the ten club warehouse, same for all bands who make posters as merch... most certainly stacks of old posters that didn't sell well in phish's warehouse or dmb's warehouse
if you charge more, you might price out flippers but then you also price out everyone else... I know this first hand as this is what I did with the 2005 South America poster... I made them $300 to deter flippers, and I deterred regular people too.. for years... then I had posters that were not selling and later I'd drop the price of that poster twice throughout the years just to try and get them out of my flat files.
the posters are a crap shoot... you never know exactly how they will sell... I was super stoked on my 3 2022 poster set, very proud of the illustrations and couldn't wait for the fans to see them... I still have a stack of Werchter and Amsterdam posters... I've had PJ posters not sell out before, but not to the level those two posters did not sell out. You just never know... so how do you plan in advance for an unknown outcome? Jeff is an artist and likes all kinds of different art and artists, he might love what an artist submits for their design and think it is killer, doesn't mean you all will...
art is subjective right... we all have our own tastes... so you just don't know what the demand will be... you don't know who will impulsively buy the poster upon walking past it at the show.
Every pj poster sale I am never entirely sure how it will go... I see these other new artists come in and charge more and they sell all their prints, so I think I should raise my prices... I raise a price of a poster and it doesn't sell as well... so next sale I think "I over charged and left money on the table", so the sale after that one I undercharge and it sells out immediately and I think "I charged too little and left money on the table"... the napa poster for example, other artists were charging $120.. I charged $100... sold out in a minute...and I thought I shoulda sold them for $120.. I could have charged $150 and I am pretty sure they would still have sold out just as quick... if I had charged $150 that would have made me 10k more (before taxes) and as a feast or famine starving artist that's a lot to leave on the table and to not have to pay my mortgage and buy food and pay bills for a few more months... point being every pj poster I do I am never 100% sure how you all will respond... I have designs I have done for pj and other bands that I think are the best thing I have ever done... and they don't sell well... sometimes I think i have my finger on the pulse of the pj poster fan / collector community and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong....
it's all a crap shoot... unless the design is right out the gate stunning and mind blowing and done by a big name artist, you just don't know how people are going to react
as I mentioned, there is no solution, solutions have been tried and people get around the solutions... it's greed and making a quick buck, so until we fix that aspect of human nature, it's never going away.
I hear a lot of other artists express the same thing, about it being a crap shoot, and not really knowing if a poster will be an instant sellout, or sit in the shop, at the price point they thought was appropriate. I thought the recent DMB by Daniel Danger was well-received by fans and highly sought after. He's charging $240 (after shipping) for an 18x24 foil, and it still hasn't sold out (there are 13 left). The regs at $140 (after shipping) are still available too. Do people think he overcharged, and that's why not as many sold? The price does seem a bit above the norm for an AP.
I don't say this disparagingly, and is not the only example I've seen of this - charging somewhat high above a typical AP price on an initial drop. (It's different when it's something from the archives.) I love Daniel's work, and own many of his pieces, and hope he sells them all. Just using it as a most recent example I could think of where a popular print by a popular artist is still available in their shop.
Brad have you considered an annual subscription based option now that the Shopify store affords you a more stable online presence? I still have your Judge art print and absolutely love it. Seeing as how you don’t need to offer it via a 3rd party if might be a feasible revenue stream? Here’s hoping.
subs always seem stressful to me... and I never know how much work i will have in year... I don't know what work I will have this fall yet. Maybe i could pad that out with small art prints, but doing a sub always seemed daunting for some reason to me.... but in this era of things like Patreon, maybe it's not a terrible business model? I am not savvy when it comes to meshing art and commerce, I should be better at it after all these years, but the commerce / business side is just not intuitive and and I like getting paid as much as anyone else, but I am often amazed at how much I don't have this lil niche career / profession of my dialed in better for my own survival and prosperity!
I see some of my peers and am always like "damn, so and so has this niche job figured out and is killing it"... if I had kids I bet you'd see me hustling and doing way more then I do... but at 48 there is a midlife career crisis happening where I am haunted almost every day with "how you going to pay for the 2nd half of your life?!?!" So, who knows maybe some sort of sub or patreon type of thing is something I should ruminate on more...
Brad have you considered an annual subscription based option now that the Shopify store affords you a more stable online presence? I still have your Judge art print and absolutely love it. Seeing as how you don’t need to offer it via a 3rd party if might be a feasible revenue stream? Here’s hoping.
subs always seem stressful to me... and I never know how much work i will have in year... I don't know what work I will have this fall yet. Maybe i could pad that out with small art prints, but doing a sub always seemed daunting for some reason to me.... but in this era of things like Patreon, maybe it's not a terrible business model? I am not savvy when it comes to meshing art and commerce, I should be better at it after all these years, but the commerce / business side is just not intuitive and and I like getting paid as much as anyone else, but I am often amazed at how much I don't have this lil niche career / profession of my dialed in better for my own survival and prosperity!
I see some of my peers and am always like "damn, so and so has this niche job figured out and is killing it"... if I had kids I bet you'd see me hustling and doing way more then I do... but at 48 there is a midlife career crisis happening where I am haunted almost every day with "how you going to pay for the 2nd half of your life?!?!" So, who knows maybe some sort of sub or patreon type of thing is Isomething I should ruminate on Morein...
Please do.
👍🤘
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
the supply and demand aspect.... you'll never know the full demand... you could say the band could take pre orders but then what about all the people who aren't part of the ten club, who just show up to the concert and walk past the merch tables and go "on hey cool poster, I am going to buy one"... so if you only print enough for those who pre ordered them, the band misses out on possible sales from any one who didn't pre order and the fan who didn't know they had to pre order one misses out... and the pre order would most likely be done without getting to see the poster first hand, so if you pre-ordered and got a design you truly did not like, you'd be mad you paid for it.
if you print say 10,000... what if the design doesn't resonate with people and they don't sell well, then you are stuck with and paid for posters you can't sell. There's stacks of old posters that didn't sell well at the ten club warehouse, same for all bands who make posters as merch... most certainly stacks of old posters that didn't sell well in phish's warehouse or dmb's warehouse
if you charge more, you might price out flippers but then you also price out everyone else... I know this first hand as this is what I did with the 2005 South America poster... I made them $300 to deter flippers, and I deterred regular people too.. for years... then I had posters that were not selling and later I'd drop the price of that poster twice throughout the years just to try and get them out of my flat files.
the posters are a crap shoot... you never know exactly how they will sell... I was super stoked on my 3 2022 poster set, very proud of the illustrations and couldn't wait for the fans to see them... I still have a stack of Werchter and Amsterdam posters... I've had PJ posters not sell out before, but not to the level those two posters did not sell out. You just never know... so how do you plan in advance for an unknown outcome? Jeff is an artist and likes all kinds of different art and artists, he might love what an artist submits for their design and think it is killer, doesn't mean you all will...
art is subjective right... we all have our own tastes... so you just don't know what the demand will be... you don't know who will impulsively buy the poster upon walking past it at the show.
Every pj poster sale I am never entirely sure how it will go... I see these other new artists come in and charge more and they sell all their prints, so I think I should raise my prices... I raise a price of a poster and it doesn't sell as well... so next sale I think "I over charged and left money on the table", so the sale after that one I undercharge and it sells out immediately and I think "I charged too little and left money on the table"... the napa poster for example, other artists were charging $120.. I charged $100... sold out in a minute...and I thought I shoulda sold them for $120.. I could have charged $150 and I am pretty sure they would still have sold out just as quick... if I had charged $150 that would have made me 10k more (before taxes) and as a feast or famine starving artist that's a lot to leave on the table and to not have to pay my mortgage and buy food and pay bills for a few more months... point being every pj poster I do I am never 100% sure how you all will respond... I have designs I have done for pj and other bands that I think are the best thing I have ever done... and they don't sell well... sometimes I think i have my finger on the pulse of the pj poster fan / collector community and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong....
it's all a crap shoot... unless the design is right out the gate stunning and mind blowing and done by a big name artist, you just don't know how people are going to react
as I mentioned, there is no solution, solutions have been tried and people get around the solutions... it's greed and making a quick buck, so until we fix that aspect of human nature, it's never going away.
I hear a lot of other artists express the same thing, about it being a crap shoot, and not really knowing if a poster will be an instant sellout, or sit in the shop, at the price point they thought was appropriate. I thought the recent DMB by Daniel Danger was well-received by fans and highly sought after. He's charging $240 (after shipping) for an 18x24 foil, and it still hasn't sold out (there are 13 left). The regs at $140 (after shipping) are still available too. Do people think he overcharged, and that's why not as many sold? The price does seem a bit above the norm for an AP.
I don't say this disparagingly, and is not the only example I've seen of this - charging somewhat high above a typical AP price on an initial drop. (It's different when it's something from the archives.) I love Daniel's work, and own many of his pieces, and hope he sells them all. Just using it as a most recent example I could think of where a popular print by a popular artist is still available in their shop.
I cannot speak to Daniel's sales as I don't know what his normal sales are like... but perhaps he charged too much for that print (I haven't seen it), i dunno... everything is costing more these days as we are all well aware.... so people have less money to spend on things like art or a hobby... more people are not buying concert tickets because the prices are too high... so it becomes a tricky spot to figure out the sweet spot as to where to price your work so that you maximize your profit and don't end up shooting yourself in the foot
one of my favorite things about gigposters was they were always affordable art... you could go to a show at the Crocodile or Showbox here in seattle, pay $20-40 bucks for a ticket, walk in a buy some cool art for $25 and have a few bucks left for some beer... affordable cool art for the people who maybe don't have tons of extra cash to buy art
and for those of you who remember when I first made PJ posters I charged $25 for them.... then Ames said you should charge $60... and I thought "...i would make twice as much,.... okay!"
then new non gig poster artists started showing up in pj land, street artists and gallery artists, people whose art prints they sell for $500 and up, so they do a pj poster and charge over $100... and you see them sell out.... and you think "should I charge that much?".... then you see inflation hit and everything costs more, the price of tubes doubles, shipping costs always go up, everything costs more... and you think "since everything costs more and this is effecting me too, should I be charging more for my products, as I too am feeling the effects of inflation on my business expenses and cost of living?"
so right now at this moment in time, at least in the US, I can't speak to inflation in other countries, everything seems like ti costs more and people have less money..... art is a lovely glorious amazing aspect of the human experience, and we all agree music and art makes life so much better, but it is not necessary for survival... it's one of the firs things up on the block when things get financially tight
0
on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,924
Artists want and need people to flip their posters. It’s a market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.
i don't know about other artists, but I completely disagree...
as an artist I do not want people to flip my posters nor need them to... as much as fans may not like flippers, the fan is merely missing out on not being able to acquire a work of art they would like to own or forced to pay more then it was originally... as an artist, the flipper is making money off my work that they had no part in and deserve no amount of money from work they had nothing to do with.
As artists we often get used all the time.... we get hired on the basis of "this will be good exposure for you, look good in your portfolio, so we don't have to pay you very much or at all" and / or "theres's a line of people behind you who will do it for free, so take it or leave it".... we pour our creativity, time and energy into work and believe it or not, in the big internationally famous spectacle of the music industry, artists often don't get paid great... ask any major band how they feel about how little they get paid from streaming services... before that it was how badly music artists get screwed by record labels (i too think ticket sales have become ridiculous but bands are losing avenues to make money, so I can understand it partially).... like all aspects the 1% of artists are the multi millionaires, be they musician or artist or actor or any medium,.. people see the top and assume it's that way for all... it's not.. there's a reason why there's the cliche about "the starving artist"...
so when some random dude gets to profit $100-300 bucks off flipping one of my posters, they are a leech, slithering up after all the work has been done, contributing zero in any shape or form to the piece of art that was made, and THEY get to make money.......???? It's not a lot of money, a few hundred bucks here and there but no one except the artist should be able to profit at ALL... so on top of pouring your heart and soul into your work and 8 out of 10 times not getting remotely compensated fairly for your time and energy, some other jack asses are making money off your work on the side?? gtfoh
I don't want that... not only that, flippers add more of a headache to my job.... on top of the job i was hired to do, creating the artwork for weeks, before i get paid, I then have to sell my posters... I have to become customer service, the mail room staff, the store manager, and then I have to now police and look for flippers and then field emails from people complaining about flippers or crying about how they are not a flipper after I refund their order... so for being hired to make art for a poster, it also comes with a side dish of handling unnecessary drama from grown adults.
And it's not market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.... it's the quality of the work and if it resonates with fans.I know this because I've had posters sell out in a moment and posters that are still in my flat file drawers years and years later. Sure some buy them because they know they can flip it immediately and make a couple hundred bucks right away but most people are not flippers. The extremes, in probably almost everything, are not the standard. Most people just want the poster. And that too is why they sell out in a moment after they go on sale... you at times have thousands of people all vying for 100 - 200 of the same thing... people from all over the world all black fridaying a website looking for a known limited item at exactly the same time.
I partially apologize for the rant, I've been packing posters this weekend and the flipper thing is fresh on my brain and irritation as it just causes me more work and more headache... and this post caught the raw end of that irritation....
the sad reality: flipping is an ever present never going away aspect of this interest / passion / hobby we all love... until we solve the whole no longer interested in greed as a species, flipping will always be here and a part of this as it has been the whole time. It's the same conversation / complaints about flippers every time, year after year... they are not going away today or tomorrow or next year or ever.
Hey! Sorry! I didn’t mean to insult you and I’m glad you took the time to give us your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you encourage flipping or approve of it. 👍🏻
Post edited by on2legs on
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Can I ask, who is your favorite artist or what is your favorite PJ poster?
hmmmmm... I'd have to take some time to answer my favorite PJ poster..... would wanna go through the archives cause I bet there's some I forgot about..... it's not necessarily my favorite but I was really impressed with Bella Grace's hyde park poster.. i thought it was a nice sophisticated mature pretty poster that the wives of the male poster collectors would see and think "that's not full of skulls or sports or pop culture man things, we could frame that and put it in the hall"... Bella achieved what I think about all the time but I don't think I succeed at, which is making a poster that speaks to men AND women and is just a visually cool colorful piece that isn't something just for us poster dudes to frame in our man cave or music room.
my favorite artist... there's many... I love love love James Jean, I am happy I get to be alive while he is alive and making work....I recently stumbled upon the work of Robbin Trevino whose work makes me swoon... gig poster artists there's too many too name and I will forget some... but Ken Taylor, Horkey, Drew Millward, Mike Fudge, Travis Gillan, Rob Jones, Wildner Lima, Jay Ryan, Ryan Besch (YourCinema), NC Winters, there's too many to keep track of, so much talent! and lots of new artists coming up that are doing next level stuff... I don't like using social media but glad I am looking at instagram more as it has introduced me to so many new artists and people I didn't know about... it's funny I will go to instagram every day and look at art and comment and talk to people and be proud of myself "for using instagram more" but then never post on my own feed / page! So in my dumb head if I comment on other people's work I think "see I am getting better at using this social media thing!"
This is a very interesting look behind the curtain for us! Since we're on the topic, do you have a favorite print you have done for PJ?
hard to say... always liked 2010 dublin... I like 2018 seattle.... milton keynes... the sunrise florida one I like... I am sure i am forgetting some... camden 2008...
Artists want and need people to flip their posters. It’s a market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.
i don't know about other artists, but I completely disagree...
as an artist I do not want people to flip my posters nor need them to... as much as fans may not like flippers, the fan is merely missing out on not being able to acquire a work of art they would like to own or forced to pay more then it was originally... as an artist, the flipper is making money off my work that they had no part in and deserve no amount of money from work they had nothing to do with.
As artists we often get used all the time.... we get hired on the basis of "this will be good exposure for you, look good in your portfolio, so we don't have to pay you very much or at all" and / or "theres's a line of people behind you who will do it for free, so take it or leave it".... we pour our creativity, time and energy into work and believe it or not, in the big internationally famous spectacle of the music industry, artists often don't get paid great... ask any major band how they feel about how little they get paid from streaming services... before that it was how badly music artists get screwed by record labels (i too think ticket sales have become ridiculous but bands are losing avenues to make money, so I can understand it partially).... like all aspects the 1% of artists are the multi millionaires, be they musician or artist or actor or any medium,.. people see the top and assume it's that way for all... it's not.. there's a reason why there's the cliche about "the starving artist"...
so when some random dude gets to profit $100-300 bucks off flipping one of my posters, they are a leech, slithering up after all the work has been done, contributing zero in any shape or form to the piece of art that was made, and THEY get to make money.......???? It's not a lot of money, a few hundred bucks here and there but no one except the artist should be able to profit at ALL... so on top of pouring your heart and soul into your work and 8 out of 10 times not getting remotely compensated fairly for your time and energy, some other jack asses are making money off your work on the side?? gtfoh
I don't want that... not only that, flippers add more of a headache to my job.... on top of the job i was hired to do, creating the artwork for weeks, before i get paid, I then have to sell my posters... I have to become customer service, the mail room staff, the store manager, and then I have to now police and look for flippers and then field emails from people complaining about flippers or crying about how they are not a flipper after I refund their order... so for being hired to make art for a poster, it also comes with a side dish of handling unnecessary drama from grown adults.
And it's not market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.... it's the quality of the work and if it resonates with fans.I know this because I've had posters sell out in a moment and posters that are still in my flat file drawers years and years later. Sure some buy them because they know they can flip it immediately and make a couple hundred bucks right away but most people are not flippers. The extremes, in probably almost everything, are not the standard. Most people just want the poster. And that too is why they sell out in a moment after they go on sale... you at times have thousands of people all vying for 100 - 200 of the same thing... people from all over the world all black fridaying a website looking for a known limited item at exactly the same time.
I partially apologize for the rant, I've been packing posters this weekend and the flipper thing is fresh on my brain and irritation as it just causes me more work and more headache... and this post caught the raw end of that irritation....
the sad reality: flipping is an ever present never going away aspect of this interest / passion / hobby we all love... until we solve the whole no longer interested in greed as a species, flipping will always be here and a part of this as it has been the whole time. It's the same conversation / complaints about flippers every time, year after year... they are not going away today or tomorrow or next year or ever.
Hey! Sorry! I didn’t mean to insult you and I’m glad you took the time to give us your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you encourage flipping or approve of it. 👍🏻
Artists want and need people to flip their posters. It’s a market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.
i don't know about other artists, but I completely disagree...
as an artist I do not want people to flip my posters nor need them to... as much as fans may not like flippers, the fan is merely missing out on not being able to acquire a work of art they would like to own or forced to pay more then it was originally... as an artist, the flipper is making money off my work that they had no part in and deserve no amount of money from work they had nothing to do with.
As artists we often get used all the time.... we get hired on the basis of "this will be good exposure for you, look good in your portfolio, so we don't have to pay you very much or at all" and / or "theres's a line of people behind you who will do it for free, so take it or leave it".... we pour our creativity, time and energy into work and believe it or not, in the big internationally famous spectacle of the music industry, artists often don't get paid great... ask any major band how they feel about how little they get paid from streaming services... before that it was how badly music artists get screwed by record labels (i too think ticket sales have become ridiculous but bands are losing avenues to make money, so I can understand it partially).... like all aspects the 1% of artists are the multi millionaires, be they musician or artist or actor or any medium,.. people see the top and assume it's that way for all... it's not.. there's a reason why there's the cliche about "the starving artist"...
so when some random dude gets to profit $100-300 bucks off flipping one of my posters, they are a leech, slithering up after all the work has been done, contributing zero in any shape or form to the piece of art that was made, and THEY get to make money.......???? It's not a lot of money, a few hundred bucks here and there but no one except the artist should be able to profit at ALL... so on top of pouring your heart and soul into your work and 8 out of 10 times not getting remotely compensated fairly for your time and energy, some other jack asses are making money off your work on the side?? gtfoh
I don't want that... not only that, flippers add more of a headache to my job.... on top of the job i was hired to do, creating the artwork for weeks, before i get paid, I then have to sell my posters... I have to become customer service, the mail room staff, the store manager, and then I have to now police and look for flippers and then field emails from people complaining about flippers or crying about how they are not a flipper after I refund their order... so for being hired to make art for a poster, it also comes with a side dish of handling unnecessary drama from grown adults.
And it's not market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.... it's the quality of the work and if it resonates with fans.I know this because I've had posters sell out in a moment and posters that are still in my flat file drawers years and years later. Sure some buy them because they know they can flip it immediately and make a couple hundred bucks right away but most people are not flippers. The extremes, in probably almost everything, are not the standard. Most people just want the poster. And that too is why they sell out in a moment after they go on sale... you at times have thousands of people all vying for 100 - 200 of the same thing... people from all over the world all black fridaying a website looking for a known limited item at exactly the same time.
I partially apologize for the rant, I've been packing posters this weekend and the flipper thing is fresh on my brain and irritation as it just causes me more work and more headache... and this post caught the raw end of that irritation....
the sad reality: flipping is an ever present never going away aspect of this interest / passion / hobby we all love... until we solve the whole no longer interested in greed as a species, flipping will always be here and a part of this as it has been the whole time. It's the same conversation / complaints about flippers every time, year after year... they are not going away today or tomorrow or next year or ever.
Hey! Sorry! I didn’t mean to insult you and I’m glad you took the time to give us your perspective. It makes a lot of sense. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that you encourage flipping or approve of it. 👍🏻
no worries, like I said, i was in a mood!
✌🏻
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
How about having merch for sale on the website before the gig ? I'd appreciate not having to waste hours in a queue (Berlin18 ) only to be told the posters had sold out just as I got to the front only to see a new pack being opened as I walked away. Would make it easier to budget my megre finances aswell.
People seem to want the posters to say “Pearl Jam” clearly, and if it’s difficult to tell what band it’s for, they seem to like it less.
this is sadly true.... I say sadly because the history of gigposters is all about innovative typography, and why I fell in love with gigposters
the way typography got twisted and contorted and made into beautiful curious shapes that took you a moment to realize were letters that spelled a word. It is rock n roll in typography, rebellion.. "f*ck you I won't do what you tell me to do with letters" mentality.. is this what they say you should do for type on an annual report for a big corporate business or corporate marketing / branding campaign.. well we are not doing that here, this is rock n roll... that type of thing.... gigposters are the one area for graphic design you can really experiment with type and try weird new things
trying to innovate typography within the gigposter world has been a driving force behind my work and passion for design
Personally I love posters or any art where I have to sit with it for a while to really take it all in and understand what's going on. I have many Aaron Horkey gigposters where I cannot read the band name right away, and I usually enjoy the puzzle of trying to figure out how Aaron made his letters, they become more art then merely tool to communicate information.
But sadly more and more I notice other people don't enjoy that the same way I do... they want it to very clearly say the band name
I am pretty certain my 2022 posters did not sell well for this reason... and that was heartbreaking because I sat down to work on those posters specifically thinking I wanted to push my typography and was pleased with what I came up with... so sadly now when i sit down to make a poster I have to silence the voice in my head that's always there trying to push and create innovative lettering and instead simplify it for easier consumption... makes a little part of my soul die... but such is the job of graphic designer, figure out how to work with and embrace limitations put on you.
I need to go outside!!! I am procrastinating chatting it up offering you all far more info then you want!! My dogs are giving me the guilty side eye and the weeds in the gardens are proliferating
I personally love all the info and bet most people agree! Brad I absolutely love your Virginia Beach 2008 print: the bright colors on the black paper are stunning, the shimmer and the scene, and using bubbles as the text...man, one of my favorite prints.
Post edited by Vitalogensia on
Virginia Beach 2000; Pittsburgh 2000; Columbus 2003; D.C. 2003; Pittsburgh 2006; Virginia Beach 2008; Cleveland 2010; PJ20 2011; Pittsburgh 2013; Baltimore 2013; Charlottesville 2013; Charlotte 2013; Lincoln 2014; Moline 2014; St. Paul 2014; Greenville 2016; Hampton 2016; Lexington 2016; Wrigley 2016; Prague 2018; Krakow 2018; Berlin 2018; Fenway 2018; Camden 2022; St. Paul 2023; MSG 1 2024
trying to innovate typography within the gigposter world has been a driving force behind my work and passion for design
I am pretty certain my 2022 posters did not sell well for this reason... and that was heartbreaking because I sat down to work on those posters specifically thinking I wanted to push my typography and was pleased with what I came up with...
I paid attention to it in your 2022 triptych 👍 They're some of my favorites, the theme took some genuine thought and I love how they flow from one to the next. I'd buy the APs to replace the show variants I have, but as far as I can tell the PHX APs are long gone - and it was the one I was actually at.
Artists want and need people to flip their posters. It’s a market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.
i don't know about other artists, but I completely disagree...
as an artist I do not want people to flip my posters nor need them to... as much as fans may not like flippers, the fan is merely missing out on not being able to acquire a work of art they would like to own or forced to pay more then it was originally... as an artist, the flipper is making money off my work that they had no part in and deserve no amount of money from work they had nothing to do with.
As artists we often get used all the time.... we get hired on the basis of "this will be good exposure for you, look good in your portfolio, so we don't have to pay you very much or at all" and / or "theres's a line of people behind you who will do it for free, so take it or leave it".... we pour our creativity, time and energy into work and believe it or not, in the big internationally famous spectacle of the music industry, artists often don't get paid great... ask any major band how they feel about how little they get paid from streaming services... before that it was how badly music artists get screwed by record labels (i too think ticket sales have become ridiculous but bands are losing avenues to make money, so I can understand it partially).... like all aspects the 1% of artists are the multi millionaires, be they musician or artist or actor or any medium,.. people see the top and assume it's that way for all... it's not.. there's a reason why there's the cliche about "the starving artist"...
so when some random dude gets to profit $100-300 bucks off flipping one of my posters, they are a leech, slithering up after all the work has been done, contributing zero in any shape or form to the piece of art that was made, and THEY get to make money.......???? It's not a lot of money, a few hundred bucks here and there but no one except the artist should be able to profit at ALL... so on top of pouring your heart and soul into your work and 8 out of 10 times not getting remotely compensated fairly for your time and energy, some other jack asses are making money off your work on the side?? gtfoh
I don't want that... not only that, flippers add more of a headache to my job.... on top of the job i was hired to do, creating the artwork for weeks, before i get paid, I then have to sell my posters... I have to become customer service, the mail room staff, the store manager, and then I have to now police and look for flippers and then field emails from people complaining about flippers or crying about how they are not a flipper after I refund their order... so for being hired to make art for a poster, it also comes with a side dish of handling unnecessary drama from grown adults.
And it's not market force that drives a poster to sell out a moment after it goes on sale.... it's the quality of the work and if it resonates with fans.I know this because I've had posters sell out in a moment and posters that are still in my flat file drawers years and years later. Sure some buy them because they know they can flip it immediately and make a couple hundred bucks right away but most people are not flippers. The extremes, in probably almost everything, are not the standard. Most people just want the poster. And that too is why they sell out in a moment after they go on sale... you at times have thousands of people all vying for 100 - 200 of the same thing... people from all over the world all black fridaying a website looking for a known limited item at exactly the same time.
I partially apologize for the rant, I've been packing posters this weekend and the flipper thing is fresh on my brain and irritation as it just causes me more work and more headache... and this post caught the raw end of that irritation....
the sad reality: flipping is an ever present never going away aspect of this interest / passion / hobby we all love... until we solve the whole no longer interested in greed as a species, flipping will always be here and a part of this as it has been the whole time. It's the same conversation / complaints about flippers every time, year after year... they are not going away today or tomorrow or next year or ever.
Brad-
I have several of your signed prints on my wall and they will never be sold.
I am about as far from a "crypto bro" as there is out there, but one aspect of that digital art world that I find pretty interesting is the artist often gets a built in royalty any time a piece of their digital art on the blockchain is bought or sold. Whenever you hear about these picture of apes or whatever being sold for a ridiculous amount of money, it is hardwired in to the smart contract that the creator of it gets anywhere from 5-10% (whatever they set it up at when creating it) of the transaction automatically moved to their linked crypto wallet without having to depend on any sort of human intervention, etc. It just happens instantly.
Have you ever considered doing NFT's of your work? I don't play in that world, I am just curious.
This is a very interesting look behind the curtain for us! Since we're on the topic, do you have a favorite print you have done for PJ?
hard to say... always liked 2010 dublin... I like 2018 seattle.... milton keynes... the sunrise florida one I like... I am sure i am forgetting some... camden 2008...
Man those are some great ones. I wanted to get the 2018 Seattle off eBay but the price was too steep for me. I forgot about Camden 2008, that's an amazing print! Kinda reminds me of Edgar Allen Poe
the supply and demand aspect.... you'll never know the full demand... you could say the band could take pre orders but then what about all the people who aren't part of the ten club, who just show up to the concert and walk past the merch tables and go "on hey cool poster, I am going to buy one"... so if you only print enough for those who pre ordered them, the band misses out on possible sales from any one who didn't pre order and the fan who didn't know they had to pre order one misses out... and the pre order would most likely be done without getting to see the poster first hand, so if you pre-ordered and got a design you truly did not like, you'd be mad you paid for it.
if you print say 10,000... what if the design doesn't resonate with people and they don't sell well, then you are stuck with and paid for posters you can't sell. There's stacks of old posters that didn't sell well at the ten club warehouse, same for all bands who make posters as merch... most certainly stacks of old posters that didn't sell well in phish's warehouse or dmb's warehouse
if you charge more, you might price out flippers but then you also price out everyone else... I know this first hand as this is what I did with the 2005 South America poster... I made them $300 to deter flippers, and I deterred regular people too.. for years... then I had posters that were not selling and later I'd drop the price of that poster twice throughout the years just to try and get them out of my flat files.
the posters are a crap shoot... you never know exactly how they will sell... I was super stoked on my 3 2022 poster set, very proud of the illustrations and couldn't wait for the fans to see them... I still have a stack of Werchter and Amsterdam posters... I've had PJ posters not sell out before, but not to the level those two posters did not sell out. You just never know... so how do you plan in advance for an unknown outcome? Jeff is an artist and likes all kinds of different art and artists, he might love what an artist submits for their design and think it is killer, doesn't mean you all will...
art is subjective right... we all have our own tastes... so you just don't know what the demand will be... you don't know who will impulsively buy the poster upon walking past it at the show.
Every pj poster sale I am never entirely sure how it will go... I see these other new artists come in and charge more and they sell all their prints, so I think I should raise my prices... I raise a price of a poster and it doesn't sell as well... so next sale I think "I over charged and left money on the table", so the sale after that one I undercharge and it sells out immediately and I think "I charged too little and left money on the table"... the napa poster for example, other artists were charging $120.. I charged $100... sold out in a minute...and I thought I shoulda sold them for $120.. I could have charged $150 and I am pretty sure they would still have sold out just as quick... if I had charged $150 that would have made me 10k more (before taxes) and as a feast or famine starving artist that's a lot to leave on the table and to not have to pay my mortgage and buy food and pay bills for a few more months... point being every pj poster I do I am never 100% sure how you all will respond... I have designs I have done for pj and other bands that I think are the best thing I have ever done... and they don't sell well... sometimes I think i have my finger on the pulse of the pj poster fan / collector community and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong....
it's all a crap shoot... unless the design is right out the gate stunning and mind blowing and done by a big name artist, you just don't know how people are going to react
as I mentioned, there is no solution, solutions have been tried and people get around the solutions... it's greed and making a quick buck, so until we fix that aspect of human nature, it's never going away.
I hear a lot of other artists express the same thing, about it being a crap shoot, and not really knowing if a poster will be an instant sellout, or sit in the shop, at the price point they thought was appropriate. I thought the recent DMB by Daniel Danger was well-received by fans and highly sought after. He's charging $240 (after shipping) for an 18x24 foil, and it still hasn't sold out (there are 13 left). The regs at $140 (after shipping) are still available too. Do people think he overcharged, and that's why not as many sold? The price does seem a bit above the norm for an AP.
I don't say this disparagingly, and is not the only example I've seen of this - charging somewhat high above a typical AP price on an initial drop. (It's different when it's something from the archives.) I love Daniel's work, and own many of his pieces, and hope he sells them all. Just using it as a most recent example I could think of where a popular print by a popular artist is still available in their shop.
I cannot speak to Daniel's sales as I don't know what his normal sales are like... but perhaps he charged too much for that print (I haven't seen it), i dunno... everything is costing more these days as we are all well aware.... so people have less money to spend on things like art or a hobby... more people are not buying concert tickets because the prices are too high... so it becomes a tricky spot to figure out the sweet spot as to where to price your work so that you maximize your profit and don't end up shooting yourself in the foot
one of my favorite things about gigposters was they were always affordable art... you could go to a show at the Crocodile or Showbox here in seattle, pay $20-40 bucks for a ticket, walk in a buy some cool art for $25 and have a few bucks left for some beer... affordable cool art for the people who maybe don't have tons of extra cash to buy art
and for those of you who remember when I first made PJ posters I charged $25 for them.... then Ames said you should charge $60... and I thought "...i would make twice as much,.... okay!"
then new non gig poster artists started showing up in pj land, street artists and gallery artists, people whose art prints they sell for $500 and up, so they do a pj poster and charge over $100... and you see them sell out.... and you think "should I charge that much?".... then you see inflation hit and everything costs more, the price of tubes doubles, shipping costs always go up, everything costs more... and you think "since everything costs more and this is effecting me too, should I be charging more for my products, as I too am feeling the effects of inflation on my business expenses and cost of living?"
so right now at this moment in time, at least in the US, I can't speak to inflation in other countries, everything seems like ti costs more and people have less money..... art is a lovely glorious amazing aspect of the human experience, and we all agree music and art makes life so much better, but it is not necessary for survival... it's one of the firs things up on the block when things get financially tight
I appreciate very much you sharing your thoughts on this subject.
I can say, unfortunately, that the pricing of art and shows these days have made me much more selective on my spending. I won't be spending $200+ on any poster that I can think of. The big name live music events that are $100+, I rarely go to any of those these days. I maybe go to one or two big/expensive shows per year, if they are an absolute favorite band, which I think there are only a few bands/musicians in existence right now that are worth it to me to pay that much. Though, I still see small/medium club shows in my city all of the time, where tickets are in the $20-$30 area. I probably see live music in smaller clubs at least twice per month.
the supply and demand aspect.... you'll never know the full demand... you could say the band could take pre orders but then what about all the people who aren't part of the ten club, who just show up to the concert and walk past the merch tables and go "on hey cool poster, I am going to buy one"... so if you only print enough for those who pre ordered them, the band misses out on possible sales from any one who didn't pre order and the fan who didn't know they had to pre order one misses out... and the pre order would most likely be done without getting to see the poster first hand, so if you pre-ordered and got a design you truly did not like, you'd be mad you paid for it.
if you print say 10,000... what if the design doesn't resonate with people and they don't sell well, then you are stuck with and paid for posters you can't sell. There's stacks of old posters that didn't sell well at the ten club warehouse, same for all bands who make posters as merch... most certainly stacks of old posters that didn't sell well in phish's warehouse or dmb's warehouse
if you charge more, you might price out flippers but then you also price out everyone else... I know this first hand as this is what I did with the 2005 South America poster... I made them $300 to deter flippers, and I deterred regular people too.. for years... then I had posters that were not selling and later I'd drop the price of that poster twice throughout the years just to try and get them out of my flat files.
the posters are a crap shoot... you never know exactly how they will sell... I was super stoked on my 3 2022 poster set, very proud of the illustrations and couldn't wait for the fans to see them... I still have a stack of Werchter and Amsterdam posters... I've had PJ posters not sell out before, but not to the level those two posters did not sell out. You just never know... so how do you plan in advance for an unknown outcome? Jeff is an artist and likes all kinds of different art and artists, he might love what an artist submits for their design and think it is killer, doesn't mean you all will...
art is subjective right... we all have our own tastes... so you just don't know what the demand will be... you don't know who will impulsively buy the poster upon walking past it at the show.
Every pj poster sale I am never entirely sure how it will go... I see these other new artists come in and charge more and they sell all their prints, so I think I should raise my prices... I raise a price of a poster and it doesn't sell as well... so next sale I think "I over charged and left money on the table", so the sale after that one I undercharge and it sells out immediately and I think "I charged too little and left money on the table"... the napa poster for example, other artists were charging $120.. I charged $100... sold out in a minute...and I thought I shoulda sold them for $120.. I could have charged $150 and I am pretty sure they would still have sold out just as quick... if I had charged $150 that would have made me 10k more (before taxes) and as a feast or famine starving artist that's a lot to leave on the table and to not have to pay my mortgage and buy food and pay bills for a few more months... point being every pj poster I do I am never 100% sure how you all will respond... I have designs I have done for pj and other bands that I think are the best thing I have ever done... and they don't sell well... sometimes I think i have my finger on the pulse of the pj poster fan / collector community and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong....
it's all a crap shoot... unless the design is right out the gate stunning and mind blowing and done by a big name artist, you just don't know how people are going to react
as I mentioned, there is no solution, solutions have been tried and people get around the solutions... it's greed and making a quick buck, so until we fix that aspect of human nature, it's never going away.
I hear a lot of other artists express the same thing, about it being a crap shoot, and not really knowing if a poster will be an instant sellout, or sit in the shop, at the price point they thought was appropriate. I thought the recent DMB by Daniel Danger was well-received by fans and highly sought after. He's charging $240 (after shipping) for an 18x24 foil, and it still hasn't sold out (there are 13 left). The regs at $140 (after shipping) are still available too. Do people think he overcharged, and that's why not as many sold? The price does seem a bit above the norm for an AP.
I don't say this disparagingly, and is not the only example I've seen of this - charging somewhat high above a typical AP price on an initial drop. (It's different when it's something from the archives.) I love Daniel's work, and own many of his pieces, and hope he sells them all. Just using it as a most recent example I could think of where a popular print by a popular artist is still available in their shop.
People went apeshit for his '22 DMB Deer Creek poster. And he made the mistake of thinking all of his posters were going to have the same level of demand. When the truth is, the last few he's done for them haven't resonated quite as well with the fans. I like his work. And while I thought the WPB poster was decent, I don't like it nearly as much as I did the DC poster. He may be pushing it a bit on price, but I'm sure they'll eventually sell regardless.
the supply and demand aspect.... you'll never know the full demand... you could say the band could take pre orders but then what about all the people who aren't part of the ten club, who just show up to the concert and walk past the merch tables and go "on hey cool poster, I am going to buy one"... so if you only print enough for those who pre ordered them, the band misses out on possible sales from any one who didn't pre order and the fan who didn't know they had to pre order one misses out... and the pre order would most likely be done without getting to see the poster first hand, so if you pre-ordered and got a design you truly did not like, you'd be mad you paid for it.
if you print say 10,000... what if the design doesn't resonate with people and they don't sell well, then you are stuck with and paid for posters you can't sell. There's stacks of old posters that didn't sell well at the ten club warehouse, same for all bands who make posters as merch... most certainly stacks of old posters that didn't sell well in phish's warehouse or dmb's warehouse
if you charge more, you might price out flippers but then you also price out everyone else... I know this first hand as this is what I did with the 2005 South America poster... I made them $300 to deter flippers, and I deterred regular people too.. for years... then I had posters that were not selling and later I'd drop the price of that poster twice throughout the years just to try and get them out of my flat files.
the posters are a crap shoot... you never know exactly how they will sell... I was super stoked on my 3 2022 poster set, very proud of the illustrations and couldn't wait for the fans to see them... I still have a stack of Werchter and Amsterdam posters... I've had PJ posters not sell out before, but not to the level those two posters did not sell out. You just never know... so how do you plan in advance for an unknown outcome? Jeff is an artist and likes all kinds of different art and artists, he might love what an artist submits for their design and think it is killer, doesn't mean you all will...
art is subjective right... we all have our own tastes... so you just don't know what the demand will be... you don't know who will impulsively buy the poster upon walking past it at the show.
Every pj poster sale I am never entirely sure how it will go... I see these other new artists come in and charge more and they sell all their prints, so I think I should raise my prices... I raise a price of a poster and it doesn't sell as well... so next sale I think "I over charged and left money on the table", so the sale after that one I undercharge and it sells out immediately and I think "I charged too little and left money on the table"... the napa poster for example, other artists were charging $120.. I charged $100... sold out in a minute...and I thought I shoulda sold them for $120.. I could have charged $150 and I am pretty sure they would still have sold out just as quick... if I had charged $150 that would have made me 10k more (before taxes) and as a feast or famine starving artist that's a lot to leave on the table and to not have to pay my mortgage and buy food and pay bills for a few more months... point being every pj poster I do I am never 100% sure how you all will respond... I have designs I have done for pj and other bands that I think are the best thing I have ever done... and they don't sell well... sometimes I think i have my finger on the pulse of the pj poster fan / collector community and sometimes I am right and sometimes I am wrong....
it's all a crap shoot... unless the design is right out the gate stunning and mind blowing and done by a big name artist, you just don't know how people are going to react
as I mentioned, there is no solution, solutions have been tried and people get around the solutions... it's greed and making a quick buck, so until we fix that aspect of human nature, it's never going away.
Thank you for the response & the insight on this. Fascinating, though understandable, art being what it is, that it is such a crap shoot.
While I have never and would never flipped merch or invested in art with the objective of making a profit, I have a hard time vilifying those who do (as long as they are operating within the law, paying taxes on their profits, and following the same rules as everyone else). Someone who can identify an undervalued company/stock is a genius and as a result turn a profit is a smart investor, but someone who does the same with art is a villain? Doesn’t sit right with me. I think the emotional nature of art & fandom and the relationship to the music make this very complicated (everyone - for the most part - can access PJ’s music (recorded anyway) as equals, but we can’t all have posters…how is that fair?? (rhetorical question to be clear))
Comments
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
I thought the recent DMB by Daniel Danger was well-received by fans and highly sought after. He's charging $240 (after shipping) for an 18x24 foil, and it still hasn't sold out (there are 13 left). The regs at $140 (after shipping) are still available too.
Do people think he overcharged, and that's why not as many sold? The price does seem a bit above the norm for an AP.
I don't say this disparagingly, and is not the only example I've seen of this - charging somewhat high above a typical AP price on an initial drop. (It's different when it's something from the archives.)
I love Daniel's work, and own many of his pieces, and hope he sells them all.
Just using it as a most recent example I could think of where a popular print by a popular artist is still available in their shop.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
I see some of my peers and am always like "damn, so and so has this niche job figured out and is killing it"... if I had kids I bet you'd see me hustling and doing way more then I do... but at 48 there is a midlife career crisis happening where I am haunted almost every day with "how you going to pay for the 2nd half of your life?!?!" So, who knows maybe some sort of sub or patreon type of thing is something I should ruminate on more...
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore
one of my favorite things about gigposters was they were always affordable art... you could go to a show at the Crocodile or Showbox here in seattle, pay $20-40 bucks for a ticket, walk in a buy some cool art for $25 and have a few bucks left for some beer... affordable cool art for the people who maybe don't have tons of extra cash to buy art
and for those of you who remember when I first made PJ posters I charged $25 for them.... then Ames said you should charge $60... and I thought "...i would make twice as much,.... okay!"
then new non gig poster artists started showing up in pj land, street artists and gallery artists, people whose art prints they sell for $500 and up, so they do a pj poster and charge over $100... and you see them sell out.... and you think "should I charge that much?".... then you see inflation hit and everything costs more, the price of tubes doubles, shipping costs always go up, everything costs more... and you think "since everything costs more and this is effecting me too, should I be charging more for my products, as I too am feeling the effects of inflation on my business expenses and cost of living?"
so right now at this moment in time, at least in the US, I can't speak to inflation in other countries, everything seems like ti costs more and people have less money..... art is a lovely glorious amazing aspect of the human experience, and we all agree music and art makes life so much better, but it is not necessary for survival... it's one of the firs things up on the block when things get financially tight
my favorite artist... there's many... I love love love James Jean, I am happy I get to be alive while he is alive and making work....I recently stumbled upon the work of Robbin Trevino whose work makes me swoon... gig poster artists there's too many too name and I will forget some... but Ken Taylor, Horkey, Drew Millward, Mike Fudge, Travis Gillan, Rob Jones, Wildner Lima, Jay Ryan, Ryan Besch (YourCinema), NC Winters, there's too many to keep track of, so much talent! and lots of new artists coming up that are doing next level stuff... I don't like using social media but glad I am looking at instagram more as it has introduced me to so many new artists and people I didn't know about... it's funny I will go to instagram every day and look at art and comment and talk to people and be proud of myself "for using instagram more" but then never post on my own feed / page! So in my dumb head if I comment on other people's work I think "see I am getting better at using this social media thing!"
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
the way typography got twisted and contorted and made into beautiful curious shapes that took you a moment to realize were letters that spelled a word. It is rock n roll in typography, rebellion.. "f*ck you I won't do what you tell me to do with letters" mentality.. is this what they say you should do for type on an annual report for a big corporate business or corporate marketing / branding campaign.. well we are not doing that here, this is rock n roll... that type of thing.... gigposters are the one area for graphic design you can really experiment with type and try weird new things
trying to innovate typography within the gigposter world has been a driving force behind my work and passion for design
Personally I love posters or any art where I have to sit with it for a while to really take it all in and understand what's going on. I have many Aaron Horkey gigposters where I cannot read the band name right away, and I usually enjoy the puzzle of trying to figure out how Aaron made his letters, they become more art then merely tool to communicate information.
But sadly more and more I notice other people don't enjoy that the same way I do... they want it to very clearly say the band name
I am pretty certain my 2022 posters did not sell well for this reason... and that was heartbreaking because I sat down to work on those posters specifically thinking I wanted to push my typography and was pleased with what I came up with... so sadly now when i sit down to make a poster I have to silence the voice in my head that's always there trying to push and create innovative lettering and instead simplify it for easier consumption... makes a little part of my soul die... but such is the job of graphic designer, figure out how to work with and embrace limitations put on you.
I need to go outside!!! I am procrastinating chatting it up offering you all far more info then you want!! My dogs are giving me the guilty side eye and the weeds in the gardens are proliferating
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Would love you to see a mash up of BK and Don Pendleton. Thoughts?
I have several of your signed prints on my wall and they will never be sold.
I am about as far from a "crypto bro" as there is out there, but one aspect of that digital art world that I find pretty interesting is the artist often gets a built in royalty any time a piece of their digital art on the blockchain is bought or sold. Whenever you hear about these picture of apes or whatever being sold for a ridiculous amount of money, it is hardwired in to the smart contract that the creator of it gets anywhere from 5-10% (whatever they set it up at when creating it) of the transaction automatically moved to their linked crypto wallet without having to depend on any sort of human intervention, etc. It just happens instantly.
Have you ever considered doing NFT's of your work? I don't play in that world, I am just curious.
I forgot about Camden 2008, that's an amazing print! Kinda reminds me of Edgar Allen Poe
Great stuff, we appreciate all that you do!!
I can say, unfortunately, that the pricing of art and shows these days have made me much more selective on my spending.
I won't be spending $200+ on any poster that I can think of.
The big name live music events that are $100+, I rarely go to any of those these days. I maybe go to one or two big/expensive shows per year, if they are an absolute favorite band, which I think there are only a few bands/musicians in existence right now that are worth it to me to pay that much.
Though, I still see small/medium club shows in my city all of the time, where tickets are in the $20-$30 area. I probably see live music in smaller clubs at least twice per month.
While I have never and would never flipped merch or invested in art with the objective of making a profit, I have a hard time vilifying those who do (as long as they are operating within the law, paying taxes on their profits, and following the same rules as everyone else). Someone who can identify an undervalued company/stock is a genius and as a result turn a profit is a smart investor, but someone who does the same with art is a villain? Doesn’t sit right with me. I think the emotional nature of art & fandom and the relationship to the music make this very complicated (everyone - for the most part - can access PJ’s music (recorded anyway) as equals, but we can’t all have posters…how is that fair?? (rhetorical question to be clear))