Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology. I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F. Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market). That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.
Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller. That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice. Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.
I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.
In other words, give choice back to the seller.
If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
It’s already broke. I was intending the above to consist of transactions which are sourced through matches made such as this platform. There are plenty of good people on here with no intent to make money and pass on to fellow fans. Since the beginning of humanity bribes have existed. I’m not proposing to eliminate the problem because it can’t be done. More of a suggestion of a matchmaking market, where buyers and sellers have the same end goal.
Yah, but if the feature allows to match with a specific person, then someone else can use it to scalp. The whole Fan2Fan thing worked because it was random, you couldn't choose who the tickets go to, just post 'em up, and a random grabs them preventing you from doing a side deal for more $$.
Anything that lets you move tickets to a specific person is ripe for exploitation by people who don't mind reselling for more.
That doesn't solve the problem that it appears to broken, as more bands have started to use fan2fan, scalpers have put more effort into thwarting it.
I don't think we're going to see a lot of change. All Fan2Fan is, is the TM reselling portal locked to a specific price. There's nothing that complex about it. TM isn't going to invent something complicated for something they make zero dollars on.
What's a low tech solution? Going back to 2018, when tickets were locked (well you could transfer a single) but there was no fan2fan?
I mean, I've been to hundreds and hundreds of concerts in my life, and I've eaten tickets to two of them. That's not a bad ratio. I suppose I'd be willing to eat a pair in a blue moon, if it meant 10c tickets couldn't be resold.
The Gorge 2006 will-call line was absolutely atrocious. The venue was half empty the first 3 songs.
Allow transfers on F2F. If I just want to list, fine. If I find someone on here then let me transfer to their email, and when they accept the tickets they pay face value to the sender through TM. Charge a $3 fee.
I remember that line. I got out of it went to the front and realized just about everyone was skipping it and just walking up and getting tiks. Was an ugly scene for sure.
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
In about five seconds, I found decently priced decently located Stones tickets at MetLife for around $500. PJ is about two grand at MSG for decent seats. Yes it’s a stadium, but is PJ THAT much more popular than the STONES, or does PJ manipulate ticket prices and supply? Of course most will not see all the problems PJ causes with their ticketing policies on this forum, just easier to blame issues caused by TM allowing bots. Selling $2000 tickets on a legacy basis for $180 causes a myriad of supply v demand problems, but almost all here see 10c tix as some sort of panacea.
And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.
My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
In about five seconds, I found decently priced decently located Stones tickets at MetLife for around $500. PJ is about two grand at MSG for decent seats. Yes it’s a stadium, but is PJ THAT much more popular than the STONES, or does PJ manipulate ticket prices and supply? Of course most will not see all the problems PJ causes with their ticketing policies on this forum, just easier to blame issues caused by TM allowing bots. Selling $2000 tickets on a legacy basis for $180 causes a myriad of supply v demand problems, but almost all here see 10c tix as some sort of panacea.
And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.
Expecting to have the band share the algorithm used for a ticket lottery draw is an unreasonable expectation
My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange.
I think a lot of people in the early post covid days were quite hesitant to jump back into it
My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange.
Demand is being driven by the BOTs,... perceived , it will crater in a few weeks, and I will be easier than 2022. The reason f2f opened so late is due to low demand. TM was not selling anything after the main sale, all the uppers in LA and Sac have been the same since. TM held back the F2F to try to drive sales of leftover and premiums. Oh and if you think someone is going to pay 1500 to TickPick for seats that didnt sell at 950 (TM Premium) thats nuts...
My wife and I were kind of discussing this last night. For some reason this tour seems to have much more demand than any of the ones since Covid. I was able to get tickets to all 10 shows I’ve been to since 2021 either through 10C or very easily through F2F. I wasn’t even able to sell a really good extra to Oakland. The demand for this tour seems…strange.
I had speculated during the ticket lottery that people may have been overestimating how easy F2F was going to be this time around. I think people might not have been quite as ready to travel in 2022 and then all the hiccups and canceled shows. Then 2023 were some smaller markets. I think now with more travel and excitement over a new album the demand is just up because you never know how many more of these were going to get.
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
This
1996.....Toronto 2005.....Hamilton 2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton 2013.....London, Buffalo 2014.....Detroit 2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1 2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2 2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2 2024.....????
If fan2fan is going to 90% bots I’d rather get rid of it for fan club tix. Make all 10c tix non sellable and non transferable again. The current system is allowing people to put in for shows they’re not even sure they’ll go to and keeping tickets from other members.
This
100% agree. We had 2018 Krakow tix, family emergency prevented us from going. Both my husband and I won 10c tix, but we decided to donate the tix rather than get the stubs, so 4 people got an upgrade. And as much as it sucks to lose money, I'm happy for those people.
I do like the premise of F2F, but (and this may be an unpopular opinion) I think that if you have tix to a show, you should only be able to sell / upgrade once. They can put ticket limits in place for shows, based on TM acct, so each ticket you held should count toward that limit. That would prevent people from upgrading multiple times. Would probably also help the odds in the lottery.
Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology. I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F. Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market). That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.
Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller. That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice. Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.
I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.
In other words, give choice back to the seller.
If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
It’s already broke. I was intending the above to consist of transactions which are sourced through matches made such as this platform. There are plenty of good people on here with no intent to make money and pass on to fellow fans. Since the beginning of humanity bribes have existed. I’m not proposing to eliminate the problem because it can’t be done. More of a suggestion of a matchmaking market, where buyers and sellers have the same end goal.
Yah, but if the feature allows to match with a specific person, then someone else can use it to scalp. The whole Fan2Fan thing worked because it was random, you couldn't choose who the tickets go to, just post 'em up, and a random grabs them preventing you from doing a side deal for more $$.
Anything that lets you move tickets to a specific person is ripe for exploitation by people who don't mind reselling for more.
That doesn't solve the problem that it appears to broken, as more bands have started to use fan2fan, scalpers have put more effort into thwarting it.
That's the irony. The transfer restriction was intended to prevent scalpers,but it's not stopping them at all. It's only preventing fans who are willing to follow the rules from selling tickets to a person of their choice and putting more tickets in the hands of scalpers who are dominating F2F with bots. Allowing F2F resale to a designated person could be exploited through side deals but that would still be against 10c rules. I'd think most members wouldn't take that chance
F2F is as fair as it's going to get for a resale ticket. Period. A better solution is going after the root of this issue, the initial sale. Bring back prioritizing show selections. Once selected, you're at the back of the line for other shows. This would allow for a much larger "winners" pool and significantly reduce the number of individuals holding tickets to multiple shows. Ultimately, that means less people dropping tickets and a less desirable target for brokers.
I’m not what the best solution is. Maybe one improvement would be to only allow 10club members to purchase F2F tix that were originally won in the 10club lotto? They have all our 10c numbers in the system to run the lotto so seems like they could put some kind of restriction on or maybe just give members the first crack at those specific tix? Like a 24 hour hold. Of course scammers could then just sign up for the 10club but hey that would at least benefit the band/club.
Why can't F2F leverage an already existing authentication technology. I don't know about you all, but I would be comfortable with providing an email address (i'd create a specific concert ticket email) and possibly a cell number to someone on here if they chose me to purchase the tickets through F2F. Seller logs into TM, enters the purchaser's email/phone number in TM (rather then choosing to sell to the open secondary market). That purchaser receives an authentication code from TM at that email/cell number, and can login and purchase the ticket using that authentication code.
Alternatively, maybe the seller logs into TM, decides to sell, but before any listing is completed, TM provides an authentication code to the seller. That seller provides that authentication code to the purchaser of their choice. Of course, if the seller would like to bypass this and sell on the F2F market without this option, they could do so as well.
I think a hiccup would be how many platforms like 10C exist where fans could come to agreement to buy/sell, maybe not enough to warrant implementing this infrastructural change.
In other words, give choice back to the seller.
If the seller gets to choose the buyer that will lead to side-deals/bribes which break face value intent of F2F.
It’s already broke. I was intending the above to consist of transactions which are sourced through matches made such as this platform. There are plenty of good people on here with no intent to make money and pass on to fellow fans. Since the beginning of humanity bribes have existed. I’m not proposing to eliminate the problem because it can’t be done. More of a suggestion of a matchmaking market, where buyers and sellers have the same end goal.
Yah, but if the feature allows to match with a specific person, then someone else can use it to scalp. The whole Fan2Fan thing worked because it was random, you couldn't choose who the tickets go to, just post 'em up, and a random grabs them preventing you from doing a side deal for more $$.
Anything that lets you move tickets to a specific person is ripe for exploitation by people who don't mind reselling for more.
That doesn't solve the problem that it appears to broken, as more bands have started to use fan2fan, scalpers have put more effort into thwarting it.
That's the irony. The transfer restriction was intended to prevent scalpers,but it's not stopping them at all. It's only preventing fans who are willing to follow the rules from selling tickets to a person of their choice and putting more tickets in the hands of scalpers who are dominating F2F with bots. Allowing F2F resale to a designated person could be exploited through side deals but that would still be against 10c rules. I'd think most members wouldn't take that chance
Members would absolutely take that chance. It would be impossible to police. You could work these side deals anywhere - it's not just about monitoring resale sites.
The simple fact is that, with technology being what it is, if you have a thing that retails for $200 but many many people are willing to pay $500 on up, you are playing the most complex game of whack-a-mole to keep it out of their hands
The simple fact is that, with technology being what it is, if you have a thing that retails for $200 but many many people are willing to pay $500 on up, you are playing the most complex game of whack-a-mole to keep it out of their hands
They achieved 10C tickets staying out of the hands of the secondary market in the past. They are the ones that changed it to a system that allows tickets to be flipped with ease now.
They mean on F2F. Last year tons of people here were posting about the great upgrades they were getting. Very few this year.
It's early. Right now, it is the "flippers", i.e. people who just put in for everything hoping they'd get GA, and selling everything they were disappointed in. Good tickets will come up closer to the date, as people realize conflicts, hotel/flight costs, etc make them dump the shows they actually planned to attend.
F2F is as fair as it's going to get for a resale ticket. Period. A better solution is going after the root of this issue, the initial sale. Bring back prioritizing show selections. Once selected, you're at the back of the line for other shows. This would allow for a much larger "winners" pool and significantly reduce the number of individuals holding tickets to multiple shows. Ultimately, that means less people dropping tickets and a less desirable target for brokers.
I’m not what the best solution is. Maybe one improvement would be to only allow 10club members to purchase F2F tix that were originally won in the 10club lotto? They have all our 10c numbers in the system to run the lotto so seems like they could put some kind of restriction on or maybe just give members the first crack at those specific tix? Like a 24 hour hold. Of course scammers could then just sign up for the 10club but hey that would at least benefit the band/club.
Two good comments.
the bottom line is they trusted TM to significantly change how the ticket lottery draw is conducted, and apparently big surprise, the changes appeared to have helped scalpers in a big way, based on guesses that no priority and a single good draw gets the winner to all available shows at that time in the lottery.
of course the band has zero accountability to its paying 10c customers with at least a basic explanation how the draw was conducted and how many could win three or four NE shows when these tickets are harder to get than any other show not performed by the biggest blonde singer in the world.
they should bring back priority, also prioritize non winners Vs winners in the initial on sale lottery…and after the initial lottery take some of that “ten percent inventory at market rate” have a losers silent auction where all who were completely shut out of the tour can anonymously bid on tickets by show and by seating zone. THATS a market rate, not the PJ Premium lies available now.
The simple fact is that, with technology being what it is, if you have a thing that retails for $200 but many many people are willing to pay $500 on up, you are playing the most complex game of whack-a-mole to keep it out of their hands
They achieved 10C tickets staying out of the hands of the secondary market in the past. They are the ones that changed it to a system that allows tickets to be flipped with ease now.
Oh yeah. And that's what I was saying earlier - the only thing they can do is go back to clamping down on any resale or transfer. Personally I would welcome that.
The simple fact is that, with technology being what it is, if you have a thing that retails for $200 but many many people are willing to pay $500 on up, you are playing the most complex game of whack-a-mole to keep it out of their hands
They achieved 10C tickets staying out of the hands of the secondary market in the past. They are the ones that changed it to a system that allows tickets to be flipped with ease now.
Oh yeah. And that's what I was saying earlier - the only thing they can do is go back to clamping down on any resale or transfer. Personally I would welcome that.
I'd be ok with it too. It's very rare I haven't been able to make a concert I bought tickets for. Maybe 2 or 3 concerts averaged out over 30 years of goings to shows. That's not bad at all. Small sacrifice to make to keep 10c tickets out of the hands of scalpers.
The simple fact is that, with technology being what it is, if you have a thing that retails for $200 but many many people are willing to pay $500 on up, you are playing the most complex game of whack-a-mole to keep it out of their hands
They achieved 10C tickets staying out of the hands of the secondary market in the past. They are the ones that changed it to a system that allows tickets to be flipped with ease now.
Oh yeah. And that's what I was saying earlier - the only thing they can do is go back to clamping down on any resale or transfer. Personally I would welcome that.
I'd be ok with it too. It's very rare I haven't been able to make a concert I bought tickets for. Maybe 2 or 3 concerts averaged out over 30 years of goings to shows. That's not bad at all. Small sacrifice to make to keep 10c tickets out of the hands of scalpers.
And frankly the ticket hogs, too. The deal there is "we're willing to give you great seats at a reasonable price if you're willing to commit to going to the show." If that drops 10C ticket demand in certain markets those seats can just get tossed into the public onsale pool.
There may be other obstacles or considerations that we're not aware of so I think giving them some leeway is warranted. But selfishly I say lock em down.
When you have travelling fan base, a safe and easy method for reselling tickets is a nice thing to have. It's not a need to have.
At the same time, a blind presale for seats that you are locked into without any method to get back your money isn't exactly appealing.
There is no easy answer.
Your second paragraph was the system for many years and it certainly did not impact demand for Ten Club tickets. Personally I find it extremely appealing.
When you have travelling fan base, a safe and easy method for reselling tickets is a nice thing to have. It's not a need to have.
At the same time, a blind presale for seats that you are locked into without any method to get back your money isn't exactly appealing.
There is no easy answer.
Your second paragraph was the system for many years and it certainly did not impact demand for Ten Club tickets. Personally I find it extremely appealing.
It was the system when they played many more shows in many different places. Our friends in Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit, much of Canada, etc., had local show options. That is largely gone. Today for many more than ever it is travel to see Pearl Jam or don't see Pearl Jam.
You can book flexible flights and hotels. You should be able to move your tickets, too.
When you have travelling fan base, a safe and easy method for reselling tickets is a nice thing to have. It's not a need to have.
At the same time, a blind presale for seats that you are locked into without any method to get back your money isn't exactly appealing.
There is no easy answer.
Your second paragraph was the system for many years and it certainly did not impact demand for Ten Club tickets. Personally I find it extremely appealing.
It was the system when they played many more shows in many different places. Our friends in Cleveland, Buffalo, Detroit, much of Canada, etc., had local show options. That is largely gone. Today for many more than ever it is travel to see Pearl Jam or don't see Pearl Jam.
You can book flexible flights and hotels. You should be able to move your tickets, too.
That's been gone since 2007. I can absolutely understand why someone prefers having the ability to transfer but I take the other side because of all the ways it gets abused.
Comments
SHOW COUNT: (152) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=92, US=112, CAN=15, Europe=19 ,New Zealand=2, Australia=2
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Upcoming: Manchester, London, Chicago x2, NYC x2, Fenway x2, Ohana x2 Aucklandx2, Gold Coast, Melbournex2
And we never received an explanation how the lottery was conducted, which is what we are paying for, and how many apparently won as many as four NE shows which would seemingly be one in ten thousand odds.
2005.....Hamilton
2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
2013.....London, Buffalo
2014.....Detroit
2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto
2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
2024.....????
I do like the premise of F2F, but (and this may be an unpopular opinion) I think that if you have tix to a show, you should only be able to sell / upgrade once. They can put ticket limits in place for shows, based on TM acct, so each ticket you held should count toward that limit. That would prevent people from upgrading multiple times. Would probably also help the odds in the lottery.
the bottom line is they trusted TM to significantly change how the ticket lottery draw is conducted, and apparently big surprise, the changes appeared to have helped scalpers in a big way, based on guesses that no priority and a single good draw gets the winner to all available shows at that time in the lottery.
of course the band has zero accountability to its paying 10c customers with at least a basic explanation how the draw was conducted and how many could win three or four NE shows when these tickets are harder to get than any other show not performed by the biggest blonde singer in the world.
they should bring back priority, also prioritize non winners Vs winners in the initial on sale lottery…and after the initial lottery take some of that “ten percent inventory at market rate” have a losers silent auction where all who were completely shut out of the tour can anonymously bid on tickets by show and by seating zone. THATS a market rate, not the PJ Premium lies available now.
I'd be ok with it too. It's very rare I haven't been able to make a concert I bought tickets for. Maybe 2 or 3 concerts averaged out over 30 years of goings to shows. That's not bad at all. Small sacrifice to make to keep 10c tickets out of the hands of scalpers.
At the same time, a blind presale for seats that you are locked into without any method to get back your money isn't exactly appealing.
There is no easy answer.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
There may be other obstacles or considerations that we're not aware of so I think giving them some leeway is warranted. But selfishly I say lock em down.
You can book flexible flights and hotels. You should be able to move your tickets, too.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."