Ticket prices. This is not for you (the fans).

Tom G

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

patkelly12

Get_Right said:

There is no subsidy. There is a calculated minimum revenue number that is proposed by TM/promoter. This minimum may be based on selling out an arena at the lowest price or it may be the minimum fee the artist will accept to play a show. The price of 10C tickets are part of this calculation. Then there a range of potential revenue to be realized by dynamic/premium pricing. There may be a minimum that TM is obligated to pay the artist for these sales, but I would guess that most of time the revenue falls within the acceptable range since these are precise forecasts calculated by algorithms and accountants.

These are not casual projections and there are not "some estimates" and it is very unlikely there are any shortfalls. They are technology based calculations managed by top accountants and financial professionals and are likely contractually bound. Make no mistake, the sale of EVERY ticket is micromanaged by automation, technology and maybe even AI to maximize profits. This is big, big business in 2024 and the concert market is only growing each year. Are there more shows or is TM making more money out of the same number of shows?  

PJ Premium seats are located in a variety of preferred locations and account for approximately 10% of ticket inventory per show. They are priced at market rate to offset increased touring costs while also keeping prices low for the rest of the ticket inventory.

From 10C. What is this if not a subsidy?

ManUnited

OUTRAGES ! Over $600 for one seat in section 224 in Philly. So sad to see this level of greed from this band First Bruce and now PJ

JD87070

Really the biggest factor in all of this is that the band doesn’t want to play a lot of shows. For the last 10 years they’ve been winding down. But to put on a tour, there are set costs and a lot of travel expenses etc. PJ is already doing a lot to eliminate what costs they can by playing multiple nights in venues (not so much in Europe, but most stops this US tour are multi-night). This reduces their travel costs, crew costs because they’re only setting up once for two shows. Really the only other option for reducing demand while still not playing more shows would be to play all stadiums instead of arenas, which i personally would much rather see them in an arena.
But chances are, this is how things will go for this band from here on out, fewer shows, multi-night runs at a venue, it would be nice if they’d go to some different cities once in awhile. Chicago every tour and MSG, Philly and others every other year is getting old while Detroit has been 10 years without any shows (and just 2 in the last 20 years), and lot of other big cities in that same boat.

Get_Right

patkelly12 said:

Get_Right said:

There is no subsidy. There is a calculated minimum revenue number that is proposed by TM/promoter. This minimum may be based on selling out an arena at the lowest price or it may be the minimum fee the artist will accept to play a show. The price of 10C tickets are part of this calculation. Then there a range of potential revenue to be realized by dynamic/premium pricing. There may be a minimum that TM is obligated to pay the artist for these sales, but I would guess that most of time the revenue falls within the acceptable range since these are precise forecasts calculated by algorithms and accountants.

These are not casual projections and there are not "some estimates" and it is very unlikely there are any shortfalls. They are technology based calculations managed by top accountants and financial professionals and are likely contractually bound. Make no mistake, the sale of EVERY ticket is micromanaged by automation, technology and maybe even AI to maximize profits. This is big, big business in 2024 and the concert market is only growing each year. Are there more shows or is TM making more money out of the same number of shows?  

PJ Premium seats are located in a variety of preferred locations and account for approximately 10% of ticket inventory per show. They are priced at market rate to offset increased touring costs while also keeping prices low for the rest of the ticket inventory.

From 10C. What is this if not a subsidy?

Its PR spin. The rest of the tickets have not been kept low. Maybe lower than $800, but not low in the relative sense.   

Get_Right

Tom G said:

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.

thebends9

Tom G said:

 Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

^This. Anyone saying that Pearl Jam don't have a say is incorrect; More can be done from their side.
I'm truly shocked by the silence on the matter.

SHZA

Get_Right said:

patkelly12 said:

Get_Right said:

There is no subsidy. There is a calculated minimum revenue number that is proposed by TM/promoter. This minimum may be based on selling out an arena at the lowest price or it may be the minimum fee the artist will accept to play a show. The price of 10C tickets are part of this calculation. Then there a range of potential revenue to be realized by dynamic/premium pricing. There may be a minimum that TM is obligated to pay the artist for these sales, but I would guess that most of time the revenue falls within the acceptable range since these are precise forecasts calculated by algorithms and accountants.

These are not casual projections and there are not "some estimates" and it is very unlikely there are any shortfalls. They are technology based calculations managed by top accountants and financial professionals and are likely contractually bound. Make no mistake, the sale of EVERY ticket is micromanaged by automation, technology and maybe even AI to maximize profits. This is big, big business in 2024 and the concert market is only growing each year. Are there more shows or is TM making more money out of the same number of shows?  

PJ Premium seats are located in a variety of preferred locations and account for approximately 10% of ticket inventory per show. They are priced at market rate to offset increased touring costs while also keeping prices low for the rest of the ticket inventory.

From 10C. What is this if not a subsidy?

Its PR spin. The rest of the tickets have not been kept low. Maybe lower than $800, but not low in the relative sense.   

"Low" is BS, but unquestionably "lower" than they would be if there were no premium ticket revenue to help reach the target. That's subsidization. 

vedpunk

PJ is a band but also a business and I’m happy to pay market value to see my favorite band play live at a higher level than most other bands.  Let’s not pretend that they don’t want to make money.  

BudT

They are in bed with Ticketmaster now, it's obvious. Some people think they can do no wrong. I remember when they stood for something. All the time and they weren't shy about speaking up. I think they've toured pretty light over the last decade+ & they are making up for it financially. '03-'13 they played a ton of shows---last bit they love the big event shows at stadiums and short jaunts. I'm going to finally get show #50 and if I see them again in the future fine. But, I'm not working too hard to get tickets again. Or paying this much when my 10c membership doesn't get me tickets. 

smile6680

Luckytwn1 said:

Get_Right said:

turner78 said:

If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want. 

They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days.  It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.

That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on. 

This is correct. I'm not sure how people can argue otherwise.  I guess a small group of pj fans still want/need to believe this is not true. 

Eddieredder

Get_Right said:

Tom G said:

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.

Right. One outlier should make it the norm? I guess its human nature to use the extreme example. Which it seems like this is. 

Are they playing for $100 a night? Is Robert Smith taking no salary? Are the Cure donating any proceeds to charity? Details matter

Did he get the promoter and TM to take less?? If he did thats awesome, and yeah he should share that knowledge. 

ilockyer

Get_Right said:

Tom G said:

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.

Limiting prices, F2F, no dynamic prices... perfect result for their fans and they still had the most profitable tour of their career. 

A slight difference but still a result against TM/LN... and another band with arguably a much lower profile and less clout that PJ! 

Crowded House did a tour of New Zealand in 2020 where it was implemented without the bands knowledge, theband intervened with excellent results for their fans - a refund of the difference between the face value and what was actually paid for all.

"Live Nation said it would honour Crowded House’s wishes on the matter, saying: “It is always up to the artist as to how their tickets are priced and sold, especially with In Demand tickets as those are designed to ensure all value is coming back to the artist instead of lining the pockets of scalpers.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/123424379/crowded-house-fans-who-bought-tickets-at-differing-in-demand-prices-will-be-refunded#:~:text=Crowded House informed fans on Facebook.&text=The In Demand scheme runs,shifting according to market demand.

EH14457

BudT said:

I remember when they stood for something.

This is a bad take. Say what you want about ticket prices, but Ed is out there championing EB Research and donating items to fundraisers, Jeff funds and contributes time to skate park initiatives, especially in Montana, Stone is still out there handing out copies of Real Change with Seattle's homeless, Mike seems to be at every CCFA benefit that happens and also pops up at dozens of other charity events, Matt has played at SubPop Tributes, raised money for WarChild, etc...

The guys still stand for plenty. They just also want to capture more of the revenue that their ticket sales are capable of generating. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

mikesbri

I wonder how long they wait to open F2F if alot of tickets are unsold. 

pjl44

smile6680 said:

Luckytwn1 said:

Get_Right said:

turner78 said:

If the band signs off on it, they know what the prices are. They just don't care, same as Springsteen. It's the same reason they charge $45 for a single LP, cause they can. It's time everyone stop pretending they're Fugazi or even Mudhoney and realize they are one of the few legacy bands still touring and can charge whatever they want. 

They know the prices are higher, but they are not involved with the details. TM runs the ticket sales 100%. I am not even sure the band has any idea what the 10C prices are these days.  It may be 100% handled by their management, in the same way they outsourced 10c operations years ago. The band just plays music and collects the checks, but I am just making a guess on that.

That’s what’s fans would like to believe but it’s wrong. Many of us who know spent months telling people that Springsteen fully knew what was going on with the ticket prices and everyone was like “Bruce wouldn’t do that to us. It’s Ticketmaster, they’re evil” and the like. Then he did an interview with Andy Greene of Rolling Stone and to his credit, he told the truth and said of course, not only did he know about the pricing but it was what he wanted. Just as with Bruce, Pearl Jam is a major business operation with the best people working for them. There is NOTHING that takes place that they are not informed about and sign off on. 

This is correct. I'm not sure how people can argue otherwise.  I guess a small group of pj fans still want/need to believe this is not true. 

Don't forget about those of us who just don't care. Put the product and price in front of me and I'll decide whether to buy it. 

Tim Simmons

EH14457 said:

BudT said:

I remember when they stood for something.

This is a bad take. Say what you want about ticket prices, but Ed is out there championing EB Research and donating items to fundraisers, Jeff funds and contributes time to skate park initiatives, especially in Montana, Stone is still out there handing out copies of Real Change with Seattle's homeless, Mike seems to be at every CCFA benefit that happens and also pops up at dozens of other charity events, Matt has played at SubPop Tributes, raised money for WarChild, etc...

The guys still stand for plenty. They just also want to capture more of the revenue that their ticket sales are capable of generating. Those 2 things are not mutually exclusive.

Yeah, they left a lot of money on the table in 90's because of principles. They've learned over time to work within the system to accomplish what you believe is right. 

I was thinking about this the other day after Ed's EB benefit was popping up on social media. I don't know of a band where all the members are out there actively promoting constantly the shit they believe in. Most of the time its musicians at a point and step. Stones out there for the homeless, Ed for EB, Jeff for his parks, and Mike for Crohn's. They do Global citizen, Vitalogy Foundation is donating to stuff in every city and even when they aren't touring. 

Its easy to be cynical about ticket prices. I don't fault them for pricing competitively or working with TM/LN (they have little choice), but I don't think they've lost their way. They've just lost the naïveté of youth, figured out how the system works, try to take care of their employees and make an impact where they can.



But it also tracks that alot of people here still wish it was 1995.

Get_Right

ilockyer said:

Get_Right said:

Tom G said:

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.

Limiting prices, F2F, no dynamic prices... perfect result for their fans and they still had the most profitable tour of their career. 

A slight difference but still a result against TM/LN... and another band with arguably a much lower profile and less clout that PJ! 

Crowded House did a tour of New Zealand in 2020 where it was implemented without the bands knowledge, theband intervened with excellent results for their fans - a refund of the difference between the face value and what was actually paid for all.

"Live Nation said it would honour Crowded House’s wishes on the matter, saying: “It is always up to the artist as to how their tickets are priced and sold, especially with In Demand tickets as those are designed to ensure all value is coming back to the artist instead of lining the pockets of scalpers.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/music/123424379/crowded-house-fans-who-bought-tickets-at-differing-in-demand-prices-will-be-refunded#:~:text=Crowded House informed fans on Facebook.&text=The In Demand scheme runs,shifting according to market demand.

Neil Finn is a special person and artist. Kudos. Hope they do the same when they come to the US as it makes sense in their homeland.

Get_Right

Eddieredder said:

Get_Right said:

Tom G said:

At best, the guys need to show a little more diligence when allowing Ticketmaster to be the agents for the tour.

At worst, they have sold out and ripped off their own fans in the worst and most ironic way.

Hope it's the former. Even if it's the latter, it's not too late to repent! Refer to Robert Smith/The Cure for how to handle Ticketmaster!

I wish someone would find one band other than the Cure that limited prices.

Right. One outlier should make it the norm? I guess its human nature to use the extreme example. Which it seems like this is. 

Are they playing for $100 a night? Is Robert Smith taking no salary? Are the Cure donating any proceeds to charity? Details matter

Did he get the promoter and TM to take less?? If he did thats awesome, and yeah he should share that knowledge. 

Those details are rarely made public. And I know the tickets were supposed to be non-transferable, but scalpers find a way, every time. But good for Robert Smith taking a position, being fine with his compensation, and not caring if someone else made money off his shows. It is the exception rather than the rule.

Get_Right

SHZA said:

Get_Right said:

patkelly12 said:

Get_Right said:

There is no subsidy. There is a calculated minimum revenue number that is proposed by TM/promoter. This minimum may be based on selling out an arena at the lowest price or it may be the minimum fee the artist will accept to play a show. The price of 10C tickets are part of this calculation. Then there a range of potential revenue to be realized by dynamic/premium pricing. There may be a minimum that TM is obligated to pay the artist for these sales, but I would guess that most of time the revenue falls within the acceptable range since these are precise forecasts calculated by algorithms and accountants.

These are not casual projections and there are not "some estimates" and it is very unlikely there are any shortfalls. They are technology based calculations managed by top accountants and financial professionals and are likely contractually bound. Make no mistake, the sale of EVERY ticket is micromanaged by automation, technology and maybe even AI to maximize profits. This is big, big business in 2024 and the concert market is only growing each year. Are there more shows or is TM making more money out of the same number of shows?  

PJ Premium seats are located in a variety of preferred locations and account for approximately 10% of ticket inventory per show. They are priced at market rate to offset increased touring costs while also keeping prices low for the rest of the ticket inventory.

From 10C. What is this if not a subsidy?

Its PR spin. The rest of the tickets have not been kept low. Maybe lower than $800, but not low in the relative sense.   

"Low" is BS, but unquestionably "lower" than they would be if there were no premium ticket revenue to help reach the target. That's subsidization. 

I see it differently but its cool. They are trying to get to one number for each show and they do that by selling tickets at different price levels. All good.