Democrats

Tim Simmons

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Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

Lerxst1992

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

also lashed out at others for "assuming his motivations". which is fucking hilarious. 
not to mention CONSTANTLY whining about being attacked (when in truth it's just being disagreed with), while calling others idiots and war mongers and racists. you can't make this shit up. 

I did not call him extreme, I said he was defending others extreme views in the aggregate based on who they were not the value of what was said. Just mind your own business, because you either can’t comprehend or comment honestly, but you had to join in to agree. What crap.

To claim only Jews defend Israel is racist and was implied multiple times on this forum. I took care to not to identify the specific commenters (outside of the initial shock when that claim was made). I was pointing out a problem that occurred. There is a difference from that to your baseless claim, whether or not you have the comprehension to understand that. The way you characterize how I handled this is dishonest to the core. 

CNBC had an interview today about rampant AS on college campuses this AM. All three hosts agreed there are current problems regarding this topic that are getting worse, yet  you are implying that I am lying about these problems. Just keep to yourself if you have a problem with my comments that werent directed at you

i hope Matt is strong enough to fight his own battles.

i really don’t want to keep counterattacking, just shut the front door already with respect to my comments.

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

DE4173

https://youtu.be/bgx7GvYSq64?si=EnORSv1Rw8KnPXyE

YERRR – former U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg came on to talk about fixing America’s crumbling infrastructure, fixing the Democratic Party, & his political aspirations. He gets into policy, public perception, parenting, his coming out story, and what it takes to run for president. All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT.

Halifax2TheMax

DE4173 said:

https://youtu.be/bgx7GvYSq64?si=EnORSv1Rw8KnPXyE

YERRR – former U.S. Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg came on to talk about fixing America’s crumbling infrastructure, fixing the Democratic Party, & his political aspirations. He gets into policy, public perception, parenting, his coming out story, and what it takes to run for president. All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT.

Pete’s a woke, radical leftist.

Tim Simmons

Im not gonna watch that because fuck that dude, but I saw a couple of clips of Mayor Pete being amazing and I’d say more of that. 

DE4173

Tim Simmons said:

Im not gonna watch that because fuck that dude, but I saw a couple of clips of Mayor Pete being amazing and I’d say more of that. 

Yes the clips look great and I really like Pete! I'll listen to the full thing in segments bc almost three hours is crazy 🤣

mickeyrat

todays Bulwark podcast is  a worthy listen.

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

benjs

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

Better odds of peace in the Middle East this year. 

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

Ok. I apologize for getting that quote incorrect.


edit, what you did say was that you were sure all your friends were against the Shapiro attack, without proof, and at that time with not even a mention of it on this forum. Shall we garner a bet if any other dem gov was attacked the posting on this forum would be substantially different?


and you constantly put words in my mouth regarding Ukraine. What I said was Harris NATO comments immediately before he Russian invasion were dangerous. 

Lerxst1992

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

Better odds of peace in the Middle East this year. 

If I could prove I didn’t see this until after I replied, Id give you a million dollars. Your bias is astounding.

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

All these threads are turning into the same pissing match.

Back on topic here - the Dems fucked up.  Sure a bunch of idiots voted for this asshat in charge....but the Dems left 88 million people on the sidelines and couldn't energize just a small % of them to go out and vote for their candidate.  The Dems are a fucking mess.  The GOP is not a mess, it's fully aligned, but fully aligned to a crazy, facist, dictator.  What a world we have right now.

Though I am pretty shocked myself that the reality of Trump wasn't enough to get people to go out and vote for ,la.  It was enough for me.  

no party should be fully aligned. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 

Yes, for sure.  I don't disagree.

I should have stated though that they have specific issues that they are able to use to drive voter participation.  The Dems thought they did...but it seemed they placed their bets on the "Not trump" issue and it wasn't enough.

The reality for me is the Dem party sucks.  I dislike them.  I dislike man of their policies.  But I am forced to vote for them.  For me the anti-maga is enough, but it is not for many.

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

All these threads are turning into the same pissing match.

Back on topic here - the Dems fucked up.  Sure a bunch of idiots voted for this asshat in charge....but the Dems left 88 million people on the sidelines and couldn't energize just a small % of them to go out and vote for their candidate.  The Dems are a fucking mess.  The GOP is not a mess, it's fully aligned, but fully aligned to a crazy, facist, dictator.  What a world we have right now.

Though I am pretty shocked myself that the reality of Trump wasn't enough to get people to go out and vote for ,la.  It was enough for me.  

no party should be fully aligned. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 

Yes, for sure.  I don't disagree.

I should have stated though that they have specific issues that they are able to use to drive voter participation.  The Dems thought they did...but it seemed they placed their bets on the "Not trump" issue and it wasn't enough.

The reality for me is the Dem party sucks.  I dislike them.  I dislike man of their policies.  But I am forced to vote for them.  For me the anti-maga is enough, but it is not for many.

What policies do you dislike specifically?

And yeah I agree that anti-maga was the thing the dems thought would always give them victory. And it should have. Biden was so convinced that this country wasn't stupid enough to vote for trump that he stayed in way too long.

The dems are up against a party that defies logic. By being the "anti-government" party, the GOP has hypnotized the right number of people into their corner that have no business being there.

benjs

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

Better odds of peace in the Middle East this year. 

If I could prove I didn’t see this until after I replied, Id give you a million dollars. Your bias is astounding.

What's my bias - anti-you? Anti-semitic? Pro-left? Anti-right? Do tell - and also maybe why you find it so astounding. 

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

All these threads are turning into the same pissing match.

Back on topic here - the Dems fucked up.  Sure a bunch of idiots voted for this asshat in charge....but the Dems left 88 million people on the sidelines and couldn't energize just a small % of them to go out and vote for their candidate.  The Dems are a fucking mess.  The GOP is not a mess, it's fully aligned, but fully aligned to a crazy, facist, dictator.  What a world we have right now.

Though I am pretty shocked myself that the reality of Trump wasn't enough to get people to go out and vote for ,la.  It was enough for me.  

no party should be fully aligned. THAT'S THE PROBLEM. 

Yes, for sure.  I don't disagree.

I should have stated though that they have specific issues that they are able to use to drive voter participation.  The Dems thought they did...but it seemed they placed their bets on the "Not trump" issue and it wasn't enough.

The reality for me is the Dem party sucks.  I dislike them.  I dislike man of their policies.  But I am forced to vote for them.  For me the anti-maga is enough, but it is not for many.

“Not trump” worked in 2020. Using it again made sense. We were told the dems were finished after 2016. Some are crying that same line now. It’s hogwash. D’s have some time to regroup and elevate their next star. But they need to do it before the run up to the midterms to effectively get the message out.  Trump is sinking himself. They just need to find the right timing to finish the job. But we’re only a few months in. Patience. 

Lerxst1992

benjs said:

Lerxst1992 said:

benjs said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Go Beavers said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Its also possible to have both. Reach Middle America and have progressive policies.

I’m just trying to point out how the other side and independents see democrats. How a few big policies and a general woke mentality is viewed by the majority in swing states who rejected Harris. 

But of course round here self reflection won’t happen, only jokes about the price of eggs to explain Harris loss.

The whole "general woke mentality" seems like a right wing talking point to me. Harris was tolerant, she wasn't beating a drum about men playing in women's sports. You seem to believe the Fox talking points heavily.

And blaming Fox News goes right along with the eggs excuse. It prevents rational analysis. 53% is far beyond the reach of fox. And the quotes from this article could come right outta AMT.

..

“Among working-class ­voters, 53% agreed the Dems had gone “too far in pushing a woke ­ideology”. They’ve “gone in a weird ­direction”, said one, “lost touch with our ­priorities”, said another. Worse still was the sense that any voter who disagreed with them was “a bad person”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/07/wokeness-patriotism-change-kamala-harris-defeat-labour

You taken narratives about the left generated by the right that flourished on social media and you’re assuming they’re an accurate representation of the left. At some point you’ll see that the dems can’t keep chasing these bs themes from the right because it’s whack a mole goal post moving all the time with them. 

After the pandemic, back in 2022 when remote work here in NY was winding down, we got the old work lunch gang back together. Mostly non political guys, who lean left if anything. They were not happy about NYs overreaction to Covid, as well as very very unhappy about the men competing women’s sports, that I didn’t pay attention to much back then. All of them. I could smell something was bad, and that sense never went away.

I was blindsided, couldn’t believe it. I made all the obvious points, that this impacts about ten women on the planet. And how about Jan 6. Nothing worked and they were saying maybe trump aint that bad. it built up thru the election, at least with some social circles I access.

But that’s not the worst, after a terrible loss to trump, dems are doubling down on woke. Doubling down on AOC and Bernie. Doubling down on dei. Doubling down on Hamas. These are all great ways to lose big in 2028. 

It’s clear, to me at least, the woke bubble, for lack of a better title, is just as powerful on the left as fox on the right. It’s even happening in blue states. Anyone on here, compare the nys vote 2024 to 2020 and report back.

Dude. This is all anecdotal. You’re also painting all dems with such a broad brush. The “doubling down” is the exact opposite of what leadership is doing. 

I understand what anecdotal is. But I lived it. And the results bear that out. NY swung ten points to R. Thats insanely underreported by the media. 

Sorry. Then I'm gonna need to see some polling that accounts for the shift because of the WOKE. 

The context is NY is a deep blue state. I did provide a national poll that had too woke at 53%, but that wasn’t good enough. Assuming the Rep, Dem, Ind split is 40/40/20%. That’s almost everyone who is not a D believing the party is too woke.

right before the election, I had a medical procedure where I needed a lot of rehab. I met many therapists helping my recovery. Many who benefit directly from increased health spending and ACA. This was around the time of Musk chanting on the MSG stage he was going to cut two trillion dollars in USA spending. I know, more anecdotes.

So a few of my therapists were undecided in those last few weeks. I pointed out their industry would be significantly hurt, because I’d they’re cutting two trillion dollars, a lot of that money is coming from their pockets.

i had about as much success arguing that the dems were a reasonable choice as I do on here pointing out their extremism. I am stating without doubt the brand was perceived as toxic. Go ahead and memorize some of those Hal jokes on here  mocking everyone who disagrees with them. Try those jokes in public who are not dems.

maybe trumps terrible job gives the dems a reprieve, but that’s on trump, not the reasonableness of the dems. Five years ago I stopped watching that hbo comic because I thought he was insane blaming the dems for wokeness. I was right where you are. This election changed that perception. America voted for the Jan six guy, and ignored the he is a convict argument. Because groceries were up ten bucks? Cmon, the brand was deemed as toxic.

Again. You keep presenting anecdotal evidence and painting it as widespread fact. If you have polling that says moderate democrats are turned off by wokeism gone too far, then fine. 

We probably won’t have definitive exit polling for 2024 until later this year, but right now, the decreased turnout and party shifts seem to be Economic concern driven.

I posted the poll above for a second time, but that will not be good enough for you.

polls aren’t good enough. Two long time solid professional democratic commenters aren’t good enough (with both those videos posted on amt more than once). Overwhelming anecdotal evidence isn’t good enough. Overwhelming across the board electoral defeat to a convicted felon and insurrectionist aren’t good enough.

but yeah, let’s flood to record breaking red state rallies for AOC and Bernie because that’s what’s gonna get the senate and White House and the related Supreme Court back, lol.

Why wasn’t “woke” the number one issue for voters if that’s the problem?  Why was it the economy? In fact, according to this Gallup poll conducted in October, “woke” isn’t anywhere on the list. Funny how close the 49-47 number is close to how it played out. But sure, keep acting like woke is the problem. You can read the top 22 for yourself. 

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The economy ranks as the most important of 22 issues that U.S. registered voters say will influence their choice for president. It is the only issue on which a majority of voters, 52%, say the candidates’ positions on it are an “extremely important” influence on their vote. Another 38% of voters rate the economy as “very important,” which means the issue could be a significant factor to nine in 10 voters.

Voters view Donald Trump as better able than Kamala Harris to handle the economy, 54% versus 45%. Trump also has an edge on perceptions of his handling of immigration (+9 percentage points) and foreign affairs (+5), while Harris is seen as better on climate change (+26), abortion (+16) and healthcare (+10). The candidates are evenly matched on voters’ impressions of who would better address gun policy.

Just under half of voters overall agree with Trump (49%) or Harris (47%) on the issues that matter most to them.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/651719/economy-important-issue-2024-presidential-vote.aspx

Do you know if they specifically posed that question?

 If you want to blame inflation , fine, the Democrats did a terrible job pinning inflation on Trump, who allowed the supply chain to break during covid.

 If you want to blame immigration, fine. Then blame democrats for the failure to defend Biden's immigration record, including a reasonable explanation as to why New York City was overrun with migrants, and why they were handed luxury hotel rooms. And why the southern border was an absolute disgrace on the evening news for 2 years before biden did anything about it. Who's feelings were they afraid of hurting?

And then the million-dollar question, why were they so dishonest about Biden's condition. The absolute worst debate performance of all time , completely incompetent. A story they're doing their best to suppress, even now.

But hey, we got Bernie and AOC unfurling Palestinian Flags now, in front of tens of thousands of roaring fans in red states. Why does it smell like something funny is going on. Again.

Good call.  I could blame things like the economy and immigration which are both tangible and poll tested.  Or I can believe your constant stream of complaining about woke and decide, by virtue of you being relentlessly annoying about it, that it must be true.  

The point is dems should be trying to win the center. Showing trump is bad from the center has much more power with voters that matter than running to the socialist healthcare and Hamas crowd. we used to agree on this point. Until you went to loving the extreme of the party. Why don’t you forget what I have to say and run out to another record breaking red state AOC Bernie rally! Cuz that’s gonna win the senate next year!

Wait what? I went to the extreme? Please go find a comment where I opined positively on woke or Hamas. You won’t find it. You’re full of crap, continuously, thinking you speak for the motives and thoughts of others. 

The energy of any party is on the extreme wing. It’s true for both parties. So seeing Bernie and AOC hold rallies doesn’t freak me out. It’s what I expect. When it comes time to vote the center left has won out since 1972. Until that changes you’ll excuse me for not freaking out and living my life like a normal person. 

Full of crap dude? My comment is referring to your constant condensation and nastiness. You used to be better and were willing to consider more moderate paths.

“Until you went loving the extreme of the party” is what you said. I’ve lost respect for you based on your comments in the Ukraine thread and comments like you just made. You said I went loving the extreme and then the next comment you change your charge and say I’m being nasty and deny you meant what you literally just said. 

I don’t think you’ve invested a single comment that perhaps the dems have gone too far left in recent years and after devastating losses in both chambers and White House they have done zero self reflection publicly, and instead prefer to defend a rather extreme aggregate viewpoint on amt. It’s an opinion, and I don’t need to be nasty to share it. Woke is only one piece of the story. And as far as Ukraine, the only thing I recall saying is I don’t believe they have a path to getting the Russians out of their seized territory, which seems to be a solid opinion. As much as I’d like that to happen.

So to recap, because I’m not “investing in a single comment” that criticizes the far left, I am now “extreme”. This is a perfect example of what I j posted to you, that you seem to think that you can conclude other people’s viewpoints not only by what they say, but what they don’t say. You need to get a grip. 

Second, you posited that it the US’s fault that Ukraine was invaded.

I stated you defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate. Your claim is false.

First, no you didn’t. Second, what that mean “defended extreme viewpoints in the aggregate”?

 You are just making this up as you go, digging deeper lies each time. 

You made a blanket statement expressing support for most if not almost all  forum viewpoints/ commenters a few weeks ago. Your friends. I’m fairly certain it was you, but made a quick search and couldn’t find it. I’d rather our public pissing match end.

my comments are not just about woke. That’s only a part of the perception problem. It’s the terrible performance and direction of the party imo. Gavin Newsom made a comment yesterday that the dems aren’t interested in accountability. Of course he can’t go too hard against the how the far left is becoming more extreme because he needs their support if he were to run.

You won't find it because I never said it.  This is where you apologize. 

Better odds of peace in the Middle East this year. 

If I could prove I didn’t see this until after I replied, Id give you a million dollars. Your bias is astounding.

What's my bias - anti-you? Anti-semitic? Pro-left? Anti-right? Do tell - and also maybe why you find it so astounding. 

You specifically said I wouldn’t respond in the manner Matt requsted, and now pretending you didn’t? You are not making a preconceived opinion of how their request would be handled?

Gern Blansten

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2026-election/david-hogg-disrupts-democratic-party-rcna202202

David Hogg mixing things up...I like him