Fan to Fan Ticket Exchange

Weston1283

heartofadog said:

Y’all these dudes are all going to be near 60 when the next record comes out. They’re not suddenly going to start touring *more* for longer stretches of time. 

No doubt.  We're at the point where for the smaller markets, the next show in that city could be the last.  I've been waiting for another Cleveland show since 2010.  Hoping for one in 2023/2024 and am planning on that one to likely be the last Cleveland show ever.

Weston1283

Started to see tickets listed on Facebook for under face value today for a few different California shows while Fan to Fan remains unopened...

JojoRice

Weston1283 said:

Started to see tickets listed on Facebook for under face value today for a few different California shows while Fan to Fan remains unopened...

It sucks that some people probably aren't going to be getting their money back. I have a feeling the market will be flooded with F2F tickets when it finally does open and many of them probably wont sell.  Looking at you Oakland, Fresno, & Sacramento. 

Get_Right

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

OfThePearl

Get Right, I think you got it right. 

JimmyV

We can and should blame Ticketmaster all day and all night for all kinds of things. They have their reputation for a reason. At the same time, the band allowed what most every other band calls Platinum tickets to be branded PJ Premium. They put their name on it, literally. I don't get trying to argue that they must hate it after they went ahead and did that. 

They are a business and they made a business decision. I don't fault them for that, but I refuse to shield them from legit criticisms of that decision. 

Let the lesson of PJ Premium in California especially be this. People aren't buying tickets the way they used to. They aren't travelling the way they used to. When they do travel, every dollar they spend is one less they have to spend on tickets and merch. Shows scheduled on short notice in random places are not going to sell. 

Ed's tour was a warning sign. $25 tickets in Chicago, a hundred free tickets in LA, etc. Sacramento and Fresno were doomed to underperform at the box office as soon as they were announced. Those shows sell out in bigger cities. 

In summary...please play the east coast. Thank you.

Get_Right

JimmyV said:

We can and should blame Ticketmaster all day and all night for all kinds of things. They have their reputation for a reason. At the same time, the band allowed what most every other band calls Platinum tickets to be branded PJ Premium. They put their name on it, literally. I don't get trying to argue that they must hate it after they went ahead and did that. 

They are a business and they made a business decision. I don't fault them for that, but I refuse to shield them from legit criticisms of that decision. 

Let the lesson of PJ Premium in California especially be this. People aren't buying tickets the way they used to. They aren't travelling the way they used to. When they do travel, every dollar they spend is one less they have to spend on tickets and merch. Shows scheduled on short notice in random places are not going to sell. 

Ed's tour was a warning sign. $25 tickets in Chicago, a hundred free tickets in LA, etc. Sacramento and Fresno were doomed to underperform at the box office as soon as they were announced. Those shows sell out in bigger cities. 

In summary...please play the east coast. Thank you.

There are legit criticisms of the band. I actually believe they made a business decision to commercialize/monetize the band in 2006 (give or take). I do not know for sure, but I suspect they engaged a third party (or hired internally) to run the website, offer the digital/analog membership, make deals with retail outlets, increase merch, reissue albums, all of that. Business decision made to offset the loss of royalties. That is purely speculation on my part, I have no inside knowledge.  That said, when it comes to tickets, I firmly believe that TM is the root of all evil.

And yes, another valid point is that we need more east coast shows! 

on2legs

Don’t forget Ed’s tour had a higher face value price point that may have turned off some buyers.  I went back and forth on buying tickets, especially when the premium tickets dropped to face value, but at the end of the day I wasn’t going to spend nearly $500 for two tickets with the fees.  I just decided to put that money toward seeing Pearl Jam.  If the tickets had been $300 for a pair like PJ I would have pulled the trigger from the get go. 

Weston1283

As a Fresno GA holder with flights and hotel booked, part of me is scared to see how many Tickets end up being available for that show once F2F opens up

I don’t think they would ever cancel a show due to ticket sales, but that show freaks me out lol, I haven’t totally ruled that possibility out.  Could very easily end up at 50% capacity.

cmalisze

Get_Right said:

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

You may be correct in saying this is nothing new for TM and just another example of "TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it." However, in my mind to stop there is dismissive and oblivious to what is actually happening. This is PJ and the 10c being complicit. THIS IS NEW. Why they are complicit is irrelevant, and in my mind and does not deserve a hall pass or any protection, frankly. Given this circumstance they all should be called out. You are also correct in stating that as fans we do not reserve the right to know about the confidential details of their business arrangements. I never considered that we did...however what fans do deserve is transparency and communication from the fan club which dues are paid to for reasons such as this. The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation . The conspiracies you speak of are certainly easy to craft considering the radio silence from PJ/10c/TM.  Some may think the silence is due to contract terms.....some may think the silence is due to guilt of exploiting fans.........either way there is silence and for me that smells of guilt.

You aren't holding your breath for TM being sued and consumers getting relief......
Some aren't holding their breath for answers from PJ/10c....

Which hurts worse?  Now maybe you see why so many are upset and won't just chalk it up to TM being TM......
 

SSS81

I have a Fresno GA ticket that I need to sell when fan-to-fan opens up. Do you think I'll have any issues finding a buyer?

cmalisze

SSS81 said:

I have a Fresno GA ticket that I need to sell when fan-to-fan opens up. Do you think I'll have any issues finding a buyer?

Never for GA! rest easy

link93

SSS81 said:

I have a Fresno GA ticket that I need to sell when fan-to-fan opens up. Do you think I'll have any issues finding a buyer?

If people can’t get rid of PJ GA tickets things are worse than we think and the music/concert industry should be worried. 

jjflash

Weston1283 said:

As a Fresno GA holder with flights and hotel booked, part of me is scared to see how many Tickets end up being available for that show once F2F opens up

I don’t think they would ever cancel a show due to ticket sales, but that show freaks me out lol, I haven’t totally ruled that possibility out.  Could very easily end up at 50% capacity.

I'm doing Frenso as well and, like you, anticipate a bunch of open seats. I see PJ taking no exception to the lackluster interest for that particular market and, perhaps, putting on what could be the show of the tour. #thisyearsmoline

pbultimate

No idea if this is pertinent to the discussion. I bought tickets to a club show earlier in the yr on the on sale date. A week before the show a BOGO was offered. I wrote TM and asked for a refund of the difference in price. The response was 10 steps of what I had to do to get a refund. First step was buy the BOGO tickets, which I did. 

Followed instructions to a T and replied to them. Their response was “refund denied”. Wtf!  So I then had 4 tickets. I’m a mean person when it comes to this shit and ultimately did get my refund. TM is sooo schisty. 

I would have considered a PJ show or 2 via fan to fan, but not with this little notice.  

ddeschler

Moline was full.  They won't cancel a show for lack of attendance, but this was a misstep.

Get_Right

cmalisze said:

Get_Right said:

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

You may be correct in saying this is nothing new for TM and just another example of "TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it." However, in my mind to stop there is dismissive and oblivious to what is actually happening. This is PJ and the 10c being complicit. THIS IS NEW. Why they are complicit is irrelevant, and in my mind and does not deserve a hall pass or any protection, frankly. Given this circumstance they all should be called out. You are also correct in stating that as fans we do not reserve the right to know about the confidential details of their business arrangements. I never considered that we did...however what fans do deserve is transparency and communication from the fan club which dues are paid to for reasons such as this. The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation . The conspiracies you speak of are certainly easy to craft considering the radio silence from PJ/10c/TM.  Some may think the silence is due to contract terms.....some may think the silence is due to guilt of exploiting fans.........either way there is silence and for me that smells of guilt.

You aren't holding your breath for TM being sued and consumers getting relief......
Some aren't holding their breath for answers from PJ/10c....

Which hurts worse?  Now maybe you see why so many are upset and won't just chalk it up to TM being TM......
 

What is (relatively) new is TM's latest way to squeeze the fans. PJ being complicit is not. They have had to make a deal with the devil to play live for their fans across the US since 96.  If being complicit to this new level of profiteering is somehow more offensive than in the past, that is fair, but that position fails to really understand that it has always been this way in one form or another. To me, it is just more of the same, and like I said more visible and blatant. Nothings changed, but the surrounding bullshit that has grown.

Same goes for the band and the 10C. They are notoriously tight lipped about everything. This is not new.  Look at the Camden ticket allocations.  Not a peep. Raleigh. Baltimore.  Just a few examples, but there are more, many more.  And it is unlikely that it will change.  While they do throw us a nugget of information every once in awhile, they are silent most of the time. Not saying it is right, it is just the way they operate. Take it or leave it.

I do understand why people are upset. I am not upset, but very frustrated with the way things work these days.  The current system hurts us consumers and it seems to get harder and harder to get decent tix to a PJ show at a fair price. Forget NYC which is my home show.  What exactly do you expect them to say?  

"The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation"

Actually, since about 2006 or so, the fan club has been about exactly the latter, more expensive memberships, expansive merch offerings (dog collars for Pete's sake), buying new vinyl, delayed fan club singles, charities, or whatever.  There were no crazy lines for merch on the 2000 or 2003 tours (as best as I can recall).  At the end of the day, membership is about the community, access to merch, and a shot at 10C tickets. This band is also notoriously private. 10C most definitely is not a vehicle of communication on "all things."

EDIT:  At the end of the day, membership is about a shot at 10C tickets with no guarantees that you will get your money back if are successful and cannot go.

D-Rod

jjflash said:

Weston1283 said:

As a Fresno GA holder with flights and hotel booked, part of me is scared to see how many Tickets end up being available for that show once F2F opens up

I don’t think they would ever cancel a show due to ticket sales, but that show freaks me out lol, I haven’t totally ruled that possibility out.  Could very easily end up at 50% capacity.

I'm doing Frenso as well and, like you, anticipate a bunch of open seats. I see PJ taking no exception to the lackluster interest for that particular market and, perhaps, putting on what could be the show of the tour. #thisyearsmoline

If Fresno was immediately after LA it would have sold much better.  Personally I believe taking the detour to Phoenix was a bad decision.  

Phoenix should have been after Sacramento and before Vegas.  In other words start in San Diego and head North up the coast. 

cmalisze

Get_Right said:

cmalisze said:

Get_Right said:

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

You may be correct in saying this is nothing new for TM and just another example of "TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it." However, in my mind to stop there is dismissive and oblivious to what is actually happening. This is PJ and the 10c being complicit. THIS IS NEW. Why they are complicit is irrelevant, and in my mind and does not deserve a hall pass or any protection, frankly. Given this circumstance they all should be called out. You are also correct in stating that as fans we do not reserve the right to know about the confidential details of their business arrangements. I never considered that we did...however what fans do deserve is transparency and communication from the fan club which dues are paid to for reasons such as this. The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation . The conspiracies you speak of are certainly easy to craft considering the radio silence from PJ/10c/TM.  Some may think the silence is due to contract terms.....some may think the silence is due to guilt of exploiting fans.........either way there is silence and for me that smells of guilt.

You aren't holding your breath for TM being sued and consumers getting relief......
Some aren't holding their breath for answers from PJ/10c....

Which hurts worse?  Now maybe you see why so many are upset and won't just chalk it up to TM being TM......
 

What is (relatively) new is TM's latest way to squeeze the fans. PJ being complicit is not. They have had to make a deal with the devil to play live for their fans across the US since 96.  If being complicit to this new level of profiteering is somehow more offensive than in the past, that is fair, but that position fails to really understand that it has always been this way in one form or another. To me, it is just more of the same, and like I said more visible and blatant. Nothings changed, but the surrounding bullshit that has grown.

Same goes for the band and the 10C. They are notoriously tight lipped about everything. This is not new.  Look at the Camden ticket allocations.  Not a peep. Raleigh. Baltimore.  Just a few examples, but there are more, many more.  And it is unlikely that it will change.  While they do throw us a nugget of information every once in awhile, they are silent most of the time. Not saying it is right, it is just the way they operate. Take it or leave it.

I do understand why people are upset. I am not upset, but very frustrated with the way things work these days.  The current system hurts us consumers and it seems to get harder and harder to get decent tix to a PJ show at a fair price. Forget NYC which is my home show.  What exactly do you expect them to say?  

"The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation"

Actually, since about 2006 or so, the fan club has been about exactly the latter, more expensive memberships, expansive merch offerings (dog collars for Pete's sake), buying new vinyl, delayed fan club singles, charities, or whatever.  There were no crazy lines for merch on the 2000 or 2003 tours (as best as I can recall).  At the end of the day, membership is about the community, access to merch, and a shot at 10C tickets. This band is also notoriously private. 10C most definitely is not a vehicle of communication on "all things."

EDIT:  At the end of the day, membership is about a shot at 10C tickets with no guarantees that you will get your money back if are successful and cannot go.

"all things" as in what Stone ate for lunch or what band Matt is practicing with today no....but to dismiss that the Ten Club literally is the vehicle that informs us fans about the tour and the actual ticketing process only to say that the band is notoriously "tight lipped" in, what can be perceived as, an effort to transfer blame to TM and its ways of "sticking it to the fan."

I understand your point about Raleigh or Baltimore to a minor degree but I'm also not sure if you've seen this...I'm not sure how much more transparency there could have been in the instance of Raleigh...nobody is even asking for this long of a note or message.....even starting with when F2F sales will open would be a huge positive step....

CantKeepmedown

Any chance Fresno moves the show to a smaller arena (Selland)? Or does that not typically happen with big name acts?

JojoRice

CantKeepmedown said:

Any chance Fresno moves the show to a smaller arena (Selland)? Or does that not typically happen with big name acts?

Highly doubtful. 

ddeschler

They've already "rented the hall" for the evening.  If they take a $ loss, they take a loss.  They'll recover.

Weston1283

CantKeepmedown said:

Any chance Fresno moves the show to a smaller arena (Selland)? Or does that not typically happen with big name acts?

Nah, at this point, 4 weeks out, it is what it is.  Could end up being a weirdly special show for those there, probably the only way to salvage it at this point.  Just treat it like a 10c small venue show.

drakeheuer14

I hope Fresno brings the energy or a half empty arena is going to feel strange! 

Sarava

I hope they open this up soon. I have a pair to both LA shows I need to sell back. The show is only 3 weeks away. What are they waiting for?

Flavafraz

In regards to Fresno. Remember Katowice 2000 only had a fraction of the place filled and it was a classic show. I don’t think Fresno will be that empty 

Red Mosqito

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

See this right here is what I don’t get. Why would anyone put in lottery request for tickets to a destination show without first looking into what the flight & hotel cost are beforehand? 

And I’m not trying to be disrespectful, so apologies if it’s taken that way. Im just curious as to how much cheaper you were expecting flights & a hotel to be in Vegas? Because the prices you mentioned have been pretty much the norm for a while now. 

PJNB

Red Mosqito said:

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

See this right here is what I don’t get. Why would anyone put in lottery request for tickets to a destination show without first looking into what the flight & hotel cost are beforehand? 

And I’m not trying to be disrespectful, so apologies if it’s taken that way. Im just curious as to how much cheaper you were expecting flights & a hotel to be in Vegas? Because the prices you mentioned have been pretty much the norm for a while now. 

I am not sure about flights from Denver but Vegas is definitely more expensive that weekend than normal. EDC is jacking prices up.

Red Mosqito

PJNB said:

Red Mosqito said:

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

See this right here is what I don’t get. Why would anyone put in lottery request for tickets to a destination show without first looking into what the flight & hotel cost are beforehand? 

And I’m not trying to be disrespectful, so apologies if it’s taken that way. Im just curious as to how much cheaper you were expecting flights & a hotel to be in Vegas? Because the prices you mentioned have been pretty much the norm for a while now. 

I am not sure about flights from Denver but Vegas is definitely more expensive that weekend than normal. EDC is jacking prices up.

Agreed, EDC is definitely affecting the rates a bit, but not by much. Vegas is expensive no matter which way you look at it. The deal you get on your flight or hotel will easily be made up at the casino tables, bars, restaurants & strip clubs more often than not. 😂😂

Sarava

Red Mosqito said:

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

See this right here is what I don’t get. Why would anyone put in lottery request for tickets to a destination show without first looking into what the flight & hotel cost are beforehand? 

And I’m not trying to be disrespectful, so apologies if it’s taken that way. Im just curious as to how much cheaper you were expecting flights & a hotel to be in Vegas? Because the prices you mentioned have been pretty much the norm for a while now. 

I go to Vegas about once a year. I've never even come close to the prices that I see the weekend PJ is there. It's both the flights (from Chicago in my case) and the hotel. It would literally cost me about 3X the price for hotel and flight as it cost when I just went there in November.