Fan to Fan Ticket Exchange

Zod

I think it's wishful thinking that a band that likes to tour in moderation is all of a sudden going to do bigger more expansive tours.

I think a big part of the travel, is that PJ tours tend to be smaller and more concise, so for most PJ fans there's no options to see them unless you travel.  I also don't expect that to change.  I don't think its the cheaper ticket prices that cause people to travel, it's the lack of options.   It's also the varied setlists.  Most other bands like Metallica, U2, etc.. if they play 2 shows in the city closest to me I go to one.   I never have the urge to go to both, because they're almost the same shows give or take 3 or 4 songs.   PJ fans also go to multiples because the shows are different every night.

I think at this point if your hoping PJ tours more, you're going to need to hope they get empty nester syndrome as their kids grow up and move out.  The restlessness could cause them to tour more

cmalisze

Zod said:

I think it's wishful thinking that a band that likes to tour in moderation is all of a sudden going to do bigger more expansive tours.

I think a big part of the travel, is that PJ tours tend to be smaller and more concise, so for most PJ fans there's no options to see them unless you travel.  I also don't expect that to change.  I don't think its the cheaper ticket prices that cause people to travel, it's the lack of options.   It's also the varied setlists.  Most other bands like Metallica, U2, etc.. if they play 2 shows in the city closest to me I go to one.   I never have the urge to go to both, because they're almost the same shows give or take 3 or 4 songs.   PJ fans also go to multiples because the shows are different every night.

I think at this point if your hoping PJ tours more, you're going to need to hope they get empty nester syndrome as their kids grow up and move out.  The restlessness could cause them to tour more

I just connected with several Tool fans this last tour. Tool is amazing live.....plays nearly the same set each night (less 1 or 2 songs)......people travel a ton to see them.  DMB tours every year...plays the same HUGE venues....new sets......new merch....people travel a ton to see them. The lack of options you speak of are absolutely another root cause of the travel but, if prices were "market" I am not sure how much having a lack of options matters when you only have so much money to go around. 

Lerxst1992

cmalisze said:

mpedone said:

cmalisze said:

Weston1283 said:

cmalisze said:

apirk72 said:

jimjam1982 said:

This is the beauty of what is happening. If you can't attend don't buy the fucking tickets. F2F was probably intended to be an emergency thing and there were THOUSANDS of assholes who gobbled up tickets they would never use.  People try to trade or parlay one venue into other seats or a different venue. Fuck those people. Within HOURS of Camden people were trying to trade for msg or Nashville. Fuck those people. Their plans or emergencies didn't come up mere minutes after they bought tix.

Maybe this is there way of deterring people from buying what they won't use? F2F should be very limited quantities not a full resale mechanism.

I would blame the people who tried to game the system not the band.

Yup, you see it with literally everything Pearl Jam.  No matter what it is people will buy it an instantly try to trade/sell it,  while everyone is complaining about the band and flippers.  

This is called good business. PJ is capitalizing on their fans desire to purchase stuff. People will buy may as well provide.

As for tickets, don't hate the player hate the game. This is an entire system promoting to secure as many seats to as many shows as possible and figure it out from there. Mark my words with "PJ Platinum" now being a thing and prices for the best seats being outrageous people (myself included) will put in for all shows and figure out tour travel plans from there. I'd rather give myself the better chance at face value seats and then travel (when I am traveling anyway) to those shows when known then put in for shows close to me or that I hope to be able to go to and ultimately get shut out then forced to pay crazy prices for PJ Platinum. Simply saying don't put in for shows you don't intend to attend is comical. Are folks new here? Fans wish to attend all shows. This is the beauty of this band when touring NEVER a tough time reselling a seat...until now. Maybe the days of folks following the entire tour are over due to the new system (inability to plan travel with reasonably priced good seats) but what isn't over is there being way more requests for seats than 10c can now provide. Which is why a fair suggestion is to limit ticket requests by location. This either nudges the band to tour more extensively through the country or they risk losing members but recover the money via higher prices. Another option is nothing changes and fans grin and bear it but without communication and transparency this would be a terrible plan, as we are seeing this run of shows. 

I think as the band ages, we are going to see a large shift towards playing less and less "small towns" and more of the easy sell out cities, unfortunately.

Then they risk losing fan club members and the generated revenue under my "plan." The money can be recovered via higher fan club fees, higher ticket prices, more merch sales etc. This tour does give hope of lesser markets getting shows. OKC and Nashville are indicators. Tons of shows in CA prove shows in smaller markets can be done, if managed properly. 

So, their options under your plan are:
A. Tour more in more cities.
B. Charge fans more for less access., 
C. Make less money.

Yeah, I don't see them jumping at any of those options. I think one of the things the band truly loves is that fans travel to shows, so I can't see them instituting a "zip code" limit and telling fans that they can't travel to shows, regardless of impact to the bottom line.

Who ever said they can't travel? If F2F is operable and working for the fans, instead of TM/PJ, then many still could/would travel. 

Options: 

A.  Tour more in more cities. - this is ideal. More dates would diminish the value of a ticket or "need" for fans to obtain multiple shows. This would also justify my thought of specific zip codes having access to "local" shows only. Remember, if F2F, local fans with no intention of attending still likely would apply for tickets helping those to travel should they wish. Help would come in the way of F2F or any of the other methods that have been discussed to navigate this system. This is actually "spreading the wealth." 

B. Charging fans more for tickets, fan club fees, or merch is not limiting access.  It is actually assuring that, in most cases, fans will actually use the benefits.  At this point, given all things, if I was a Vegas or TX resident what is the benefit in being a member anyway? You MAYBE get tickets to a show that you HAVE to travel to? Somehow, Vegas got a show this leg but when will be the next? There is no benefit anymore in being a 10c member unless you are worried about $200.  There are killer seats available all throughout the May leg for roughly $100-200 more than "face" on "PJ Premium." I would think many (aside from those in locations that get ample shows) would opt out of being a fan club member. Why really pay the fee at this point if I can choose my ideal seats and for nearly the price of the actual ticket and 10c membership combined. When GNR first went on tour they literally mandated fan club memberships for various locations in the venue and sold them as a package with tickets directly on TM. Is this next for PJ? Additionally, limiting access by zip code could mean Chicago shows are accessible to the entire mid-west. It is manageable, with effort. 

C. Nothing I have ever suggested would make PJ/10C/TM less money. You may be right that the band "loves" that fans travel but, now we know to what extent they love it. They only love it when people can afford it and at their now outrageous asking price. I would imagine the travelling fan will diminish thanks to the current "PJ Premium" model. Get shutout of a show you hoped to travel to......no ability to have tickets sold or transferred to you at a reasonable price, no understanding of when reasonably priced tickets will become available, airline flights/hotels increasing on the daily, but here buy an overpriced "PJ Premium" pair where the market is extremely manipulated and you taken advantage of simply so one can plan travel. You sure they actually love that fans travel or that fans will PAY anything to travel to areas only they wish to play in. Their prerogative but a significant difference.  

As I may have not so clearly said, limiting access to tickets based on location is also not a new practice for many industries, including concerts. This never has or will diminish profits for the promoter, act, or venue. Fans travelling has been a large part of the band's experience but, I will suggest that the lure of travelling was due to reasonably priced seats for 100% of the venue, with ample time to plan for travel, while also being clearly communicated to and honestly dealt with from a business aspect by the 10C/PJ/ and maybe TM? LOL 

Whereas we could have always counted on going 2-3 sadly, in today's day and age of PJ - fans are 0-3. 

I think what we see is what we will get, in the good years 20  to 35 shows per year, alternating US, Europe (and footy land is waaay overdue for some shows). Some years will have zero shows.

The current tour demonstrates if you are anywhere the northeastern US, membership fees are an absolute necessity. Other regions of the US, maybe can squeak by without it.

This tour, Had they insisted on one thing with LN, fans have full access to face value resales, this years ticketing process would have been a home run. Too bad one crappy LN limitation on the marketplace ruins an otherwise good effort (I’ll ignore the bizarre LA ticket passcode freeze atm).

Ando

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

DC40485

So when does the fan 2 fan ticket exchange open? 

Weston1283

DC40485 said:

So when does the fan 2 fan ticket exchange open? 

No one knows.  Best guess is 2 weeks before the first show so maybe next Tuesday.

CantKeepmedown

The only way I'd be willing to spend $300/$500 on a ticket is if they played in my hometown and I didn't have to spend any additional money going to the show.  Eat and drink at home and get dropped off at the venue. Even then, I'm not sure I'd do it. Hard to justify spending that much on concert tickets. For me at least. 

cmalisze

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

I am sorry this happened to you. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you. 

I was planning on Vegas as well but once I saw flights and hotel costs it made too much sense to do Oakland and get two shows for nearly the same overall cost give or take. The timing for me personally ended up being better as well. This all literally happened within 48 hours of being notified of having won Vegas seats. Because of several factors (some beyond my control) I was planning a trip to Oakland without tickets (shutout of all verified/10c requests for them) before evening knowing the location of my seats in Vegas...yet we have other members comfortable saying "fuck those people" when many of "those people" are well intended and its circumstances/timing beyond control causing decisions to be made nobody ever intended to make. 

Perfection will never be obtainable, I absolutely understand this. There are just so many better ways to manage this than how it is currently being handled. 

JojoRice

Ando said:

Vegas was WAY more than I expected so I have to give mine up. Flights from Denver are $500 a piece and a cheap hotel is still $350+. Just not worth it right now. I keep hoping that flights will go down and maybe ill go 

I had originally planned to do Vegas but now I'm doing both LA shows instead.  Flying in from Atlanta, I can't justify spending all that travel expense for just 1 Vegas show.  

heartofadog

Y’all these dudes are all going to be near 60 when the next record comes out. They’re not suddenly going to start touring *more* for longer stretches of time. 

Weston1283

heartofadog said:

Y’all these dudes are all going to be near 60 when the next record comes out. They’re not suddenly going to start touring *more* for longer stretches of time. 

No doubt.  We're at the point where for the smaller markets, the next show in that city could be the last.  I've been waiting for another Cleveland show since 2010.  Hoping for one in 2023/2024 and am planning on that one to likely be the last Cleveland show ever.

Weston1283

Started to see tickets listed on Facebook for under face value today for a few different California shows while Fan to Fan remains unopened...

JojoRice

Weston1283 said:

Started to see tickets listed on Facebook for under face value today for a few different California shows while Fan to Fan remains unopened...

It sucks that some people probably aren't going to be getting their money back. I have a feeling the market will be flooded with F2F tickets when it finally does open and many of them probably wont sell.  Looking at you Oakland, Fresno, & Sacramento. 

Get_Right

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

OfThePearl

Get Right, I think you got it right. 

JimmyV

We can and should blame Ticketmaster all day and all night for all kinds of things. They have their reputation for a reason. At the same time, the band allowed what most every other band calls Platinum tickets to be branded PJ Premium. They put their name on it, literally. I don't get trying to argue that they must hate it after they went ahead and did that. 

They are a business and they made a business decision. I don't fault them for that, but I refuse to shield them from legit criticisms of that decision. 

Let the lesson of PJ Premium in California especially be this. People aren't buying tickets the way they used to. They aren't travelling the way they used to. When they do travel, every dollar they spend is one less they have to spend on tickets and merch. Shows scheduled on short notice in random places are not going to sell. 

Ed's tour was a warning sign. $25 tickets in Chicago, a hundred free tickets in LA, etc. Sacramento and Fresno were doomed to underperform at the box office as soon as they were announced. Those shows sell out in bigger cities. 

In summary...please play the east coast. Thank you.

Get_Right

JimmyV said:

We can and should blame Ticketmaster all day and all night for all kinds of things. They have their reputation for a reason. At the same time, the band allowed what most every other band calls Platinum tickets to be branded PJ Premium. They put their name on it, literally. I don't get trying to argue that they must hate it after they went ahead and did that. 

They are a business and they made a business decision. I don't fault them for that, but I refuse to shield them from legit criticisms of that decision. 

Let the lesson of PJ Premium in California especially be this. People aren't buying tickets the way they used to. They aren't travelling the way they used to. When they do travel, every dollar they spend is one less they have to spend on tickets and merch. Shows scheduled on short notice in random places are not going to sell. 

Ed's tour was a warning sign. $25 tickets in Chicago, a hundred free tickets in LA, etc. Sacramento and Fresno were doomed to underperform at the box office as soon as they were announced. Those shows sell out in bigger cities. 

In summary...please play the east coast. Thank you.

There are legit criticisms of the band. I actually believe they made a business decision to commercialize/monetize the band in 2006 (give or take). I do not know for sure, but I suspect they engaged a third party (or hired internally) to run the website, offer the digital/analog membership, make deals with retail outlets, increase merch, reissue albums, all of that. Business decision made to offset the loss of royalties. That is purely speculation on my part, I have no inside knowledge.  That said, when it comes to tickets, I firmly believe that TM is the root of all evil.

And yes, another valid point is that we need more east coast shows! 

on2legs

Don’t forget Ed’s tour had a higher face value price point that may have turned off some buyers.  I went back and forth on buying tickets, especially when the premium tickets dropped to face value, but at the end of the day I wasn’t going to spend nearly $500 for two tickets with the fees.  I just decided to put that money toward seeing Pearl Jam.  If the tickets had been $300 for a pair like PJ I would have pulled the trigger from the get go. 

Weston1283

As a Fresno GA holder with flights and hotel booked, part of me is scared to see how many Tickets end up being available for that show once F2F opens up

I don’t think they would ever cancel a show due to ticket sales, but that show freaks me out lol, I haven’t totally ruled that possibility out.  Could very easily end up at 50% capacity.

cmalisze

Get_Right said:

Giventofly and Lerxst understand the matter very well and have posted some valuable information that is accurate IMHO. 

All these conspiracy theories are kind of silly. This is nothing new, TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it. They defeated Pearl Jam's attempt to make changes. They were later sued and settled by giving $5 vouchers that never worked. Then they bought Live Nation and managed to get that through the Department of Justice (no doubt spending millions on lawyers and lobbyists).  They have been doing it for years in one form or another.  Before platinum pricing or market pricing they made deals with ticket brokers, auction sites, or some other way to sell them at a higher price. They have been holding back seats from the public and using them for profit since the mid 80s when they tried to put a stop to the owners of ticket terminals printing tickets for themselves. This is nothing new, it is just a lot more visible and blatant.  

The band probably hates this arrangement and the fact they have no leverage. No doubt they are complicit, but they have had to accept TM's terms since 96. I would guess that the only negotiation is over the percentage of 10C tix and the "face value" pricing. TM's position is simply "great, here are your 10c tix, which are the most valuable and desired tickets, at the lowest price we can offer. We do not offer this many tickets for any other band. We get to unconditionally do whatever we want with the rest. This confidentiality clause prevents you from discussing our negotiations or terms."  The band fights for 10C tix at a reasonable price, and has no say over the remaining tickets. Sucks, but that is the way it is.

F2F falls within TM's control and is just another way they screw fans. This wont be discussed by the 10C or the band. They rarely, if ever, communicate on these types of issues. You may be a loyal fan that pays your dues every year and spent hundreds (or thousands) for tickets, but that does not give you the right to know the confidential details of business arrangements. TM made a promise to open F2F, but they never said when. This is intentional.

And TM is being sued again for this current pricing scheme.  Perhaps consumers will get some relief, but I am not holding my breath. 

You may be correct in saying this is nothing new for TM and just another example of "TM sticking it to the fans and getting away with it." However, in my mind to stop there is dismissive and oblivious to what is actually happening. This is PJ and the 10c being complicit. THIS IS NEW. Why they are complicit is irrelevant, and in my mind and does not deserve a hall pass or any protection, frankly. Given this circumstance they all should be called out. You are also correct in stating that as fans we do not reserve the right to know about the confidential details of their business arrangements. I never considered that we did...however what fans do deserve is transparency and communication from the fan club which dues are paid to for reasons such as this. The fan club is a vehicle of communication from the band to its fans on all things....not just buy a new vinyl or donate to the Vitalogy Foundation . The conspiracies you speak of are certainly easy to craft considering the radio silence from PJ/10c/TM.  Some may think the silence is due to contract terms.....some may think the silence is due to guilt of exploiting fans.........either way there is silence and for me that smells of guilt.

You aren't holding your breath for TM being sued and consumers getting relief......
Some aren't holding their breath for answers from PJ/10c....

Which hurts worse?  Now maybe you see why so many are upset and won't just chalk it up to TM being TM......