F2F makes me very sad. Life changes and now I am sitting on tickets i cant use... I.want them out of my hands....so i know the money will be coming back to me. On the other hand, I am now, also, in need of other tickets. Why would i even consider some hyper inflated tickets i cant afford when i know ill be able to pick one up in fan to fan..?
It makes me sad, because.im starting to worry the system will.not work effectively and just like with the Earthlings shows... there will be people desperate for tickets... while others eat perfectly good seats. TM NEEDS TO OPEN F2F!!!!!!!!
We’re only a couple weeks into spring…. Technically they have until late June to open the F2F. Hopefully it’s a lot sooner, but they did disclose all this when tickets went on sale.
But that doesn't help those who have to sell or want to buy tix to shows in May. F2F needs to open now. This is so unfair.
Take comfort that they said this spring, meaning 2022. Could have just said "the spring", which could be ANY year.
Lol
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
I know we're not "owed" or "entitled" to anything but it is getting VERY frustrating that they haven't opened the Fan2Fan Exchange yet. I'm not sure what the hold up is or if the band even knows (or cares quite frankly) but a little communication goes a long way. I would imagine it has something to do with the fact that PJ Premium has been a flop in a number of cities (mainly CA) and they don't want to allow F2F sales at face value until more of the premium seats are sold. I hope I'm wrong in assuming that and that it's just a case of them not having their act together vs trying to prevent some fans from buying/selling tickets just to pedal a few extra seats at higher prices.
Saw an interesting piece on John Oliver’s show about Ticketmaster an their practices. About only releasing 10% of tickets to public knowingly selling to ticket brokers even giving tickets back to artist to up sell on after market. It also praised Pj as the only band to do f2f for face value. Makes you wonder what the band had to negotiate to get so many tickets to fan club and to keep most tickets prices down other than Pj premium. It could be a lot worse with other artists
Thanks for the above posts. I wasn't sure if I just wasn't going to the right place to do the F2F exchange. So at least now I know, its not just me. Hopefully F2F will come online before the SD show so at least some fan can get my seats. PJ has put in more effort than most, and while I appreciate the concept, it may be tilting at windmills.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
I'm completely naive to the fan to fan sale, why did you all purchase tickets to shows you can't go to and now want to sell??? I guess it's just never something I have done before so I have no clue. Seems to me blaming Ten Club for this is unjustified. Were you forced to buy these tickets?
I'm completely naive to the fan to fan sale, why did you all purchase tickets to shows you can't go to and now want to sell??? I guess it's just never something I have done before so I have no clue. Seems to me blaming Ten Club for this is unjustified. Were you forced to buy these tickets?
Keep in mind, a lot of us have had these tickets for over 2 years. We didn't even know when the shows were going to take place until recently. And then when we finally found out, we had like a week to decide if we could make the new dates or request a refund.
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
This band's fan base travels. This won't change. A way to combat these issues is to only provide tickets to fans within various zip codes close in proximity to a show. This would hurt fans in areas where they rarely play, yes. However, creativity could take over and I am sure solutions for that could also be thought of.
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
This band's fan base travels. This won't change. A way to combat these issues is to only provide tickets to fans within various zip codes close in proximity to a show. This would hurt fans in areas where they rarely play, yes. However, creativity could take over and I am sure solutions for that could also be thought of.
I'm not sure what the fan base traveling has to do with people buying tickets they have no intention of using.
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
My dog doesn’t have an account but is a huge fan of the band.
1996.....Toronto 2005.....Hamilton 2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton 2013.....London, Buffalo 2014.....Detroit 2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1 2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2 2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto 2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2 2024.....????
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
My dog doesn’t have an account but is a huge fan of the band.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
Fan to Fan was promised to ticket buyers before they made their purchases. I don't disagree that buying tickets you aren't going to use isn't a good idea, but what was promised should be delivered.
Also, since the clear expectation is that we will travel wherever they play, people's plans will always change at the last minute. There are kids, elderly parents, work commitments, and a million other things that might prevent someone from flying to Fresno for a concert.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
replace "dont need" with "have no intention of using". make sense now? i dont see your point, no. you dont have one.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
replace "dont need" with "have no intention of using". make sense now? i dont see your point, no. you dont have one.
I live in IL. I have someone willing to trade me a PJ20 mural for 1 ticket to MSG. I want the PJ20 mural. Therefore I NEED 1 ticket to USE in a trade. Currently I could potentially pull this off if I lived in Asia but had no intention of ATTENDING the show. Theoretically by living closer to a venue there is a greater chance of ATTENDING a show. Hence my solution to alleviate the stress on tickets. You sure I don't have a point?
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
replace "dont need" with "have no intention of using". make sense now? i dont see your point, no. you dont have one.
I live in IL. I have someone willing to trade me a PJ20 mural for 1 ticket to MSG. I want the PJ20 mural. Therefore I NEED 1 ticket to USE in a trade. Currently I could potentially pull this off if I lived in Asia but had no intention of ATTENDING the show. Theoretically by living closer to a venue there is a greater chance of ATTENDING a show. Hence my solution to alleviate the stress on tickets. You sure I don't have a point?
potentially, theoretically....
you have a point, a ridiculous one, but a point none the less
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
My dog doesn’t have an account but is a huge fan of the band.
My dog was a member back in 1992 but forgot to renew.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
I am curious about the need to blame PJ for all of this. To what end? Let's say everyone agrees that this was the band's decision. What then?
It is a free market economy and PJ is solely providing the product we so desperately desire. They have the right to charge whatever they want for a concert ticket. Instead of gouging concert-goers, PJ has historically offered reasonably priced tickets to the 10C and public while remaining a staunch advocate for fan access to reasonably priced tickets.
In 2020, PJ wrote a letter to the Committee on Energy and Commerce opposing the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing (BOSS Act). The complete letter can be found here and it opens:
We write to you as one of the biggest touring bands of the last three decades. We also write to you as the working musicians and the MUSIC FANS we were for years before that. We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
WE KNOW HOW TO SERVICE TICKETS TO OUR FANS. Only a few artists in our profession have worked to provide tickets directly to fans. We developed a system for our fan club outside of public sales. For almost thirty years, we have learned from our successes and failures; we have real time experience making sure people buying our tickets actually attend the shows and do not merely sell seats at a markup. We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
One of their stated reasons for opossing the bill was becasue it would “blocks non-transferable ticketing”. PJ's primary gripe seemed to be with profiting on the secondary ticket market. In 2020, PJ and TM launched their Fan to Fan ticket soution which promised to keep tickets off the secondary market and relied on tickets remaining non-transferable. It would be difficult to call the 2020 Fan to Fan solution anything but a success.
The rub comes from the apparent about face in 2022. By blocking ticket transfers and Fan to Fan Sales, PJ and TM have succeeded in completely eliminated a secondary market. As we have seen over the past few weeks regarding the east coast shows, plenty of tickets were withheld from the 10C, Verified Fan, and public sales. Additionally, plenty of ticketholders are looking to unload thier in-hand tickets, at face value, but are restricted from doing so. Instead, these withheld, PJ/TM controlled tickets are being sold as "PJ Premium," which come with zero additional perks and are offered at extreme price points.
We are sympathetic to fans who haven't seen their favorite acts and who mistakenly believe that artists and promoters who are driving prices up through manufactured scarcity.
We haven't forgotten what it is like to hunger and work so hard to see our favorite bands and as a result, we have worked continuously to ensure our fans can see our shows at a reasonable cost.
Make no mistake, what we are seeing out of our beloved band and TM is nothing other "manufactured scarcity" and tickets being sold at completely unreasonable costs.
No man for any considerable period can wear one face to himself and another to the multitude, without finally getting bewildered as to which may be the true. - Nathaniel Hawthorne
Okay, so what do you propose to do about it?
One thing fans could do is stop buying tickets they aren’t going to use. Instead of bitching. I know life gets in the way in some cases, but the amount of tickets i see people scrambling to get rid of almost immediately after they get them is ridiculous. And how many of them are actually already going, but the tickets they “cant use anymore” are the extra pair(s) they won with their spouses accounts, who don't even like the band. Or their dogs account. Or one of the other extra accounts they have.
My dog doesn’t have an account but is a huge fan of the band.
My dog was a member back in 1992 but forgot to renew.
whats a 10C Friends and Family Plan without the dog?
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
replace "dont need" with "have no intention of using". make sense now? i dont see your point, no. you dont have one.
I live in IL. I have someone willing to trade me a PJ20 mural for 1 ticket to MSG. I want the PJ20 mural. Therefore I NEED 1 ticket to USE in a trade. Currently I could potentially pull this off if I lived in Asia but had no intention of ATTENDING the show. Theoretically by living closer to a venue there is a greater chance of ATTENDING a show. Hence my solution to alleviate the stress on tickets. You sure I don't have a point?
potentially, theoretically....
you have a point, a ridiculous one, but a point none the less
Why do you think ridiculous? I'm agreeing with you that it would be easier if folks only put in for shows they would attend. We know fans travel and shows are hard to come by. My suggestion is in recognition of your point.
I know we're not "owed" or "entitled" to anything but it is getting VERY frustrating that they haven't opened the Fan2Fan Exchange yet. I'm not sure what the hold up is or if the band even knows (or cares quite frankly) but a little communication goes a long way. I would imagine it has something to do with the fact that PJ Premium has been a flop in a number of cities (mainly CA) and they don't want to allow F2F sales at face value until more of the premium seats are sold. I hope I'm wrong in assuming that and that it's just a case of them not having their act together vs trying to prevent some fans from buying/selling tickets just to pedal a few extra seats at higher prices.
Long time lurker, but I'm going to post for fun. I agree with everything that has been said... but there is another perspective missing from this discussion. For decades, fan club members (not just of Pearl Jam, but other bands too) have used their early access/preferential treatment for tickets they knew they might not use (life could get in the way, they could score better seats through an alternate vendor, they could be used as trade-bait for shows they really wanted to get tickets to, etc.). Then, when tickets went on sale to the general public, non-fan club members didn't have access to those seats, still inflating the price of tickets on the secondary market against the band's wishes.
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
Another point I've also considered. The remedy would be to limit requests to shows to zip codes within a certain perimeter. This would alleviate the nation-wide pressure per show for the reasons you've mentioned.
That could be viewed as another limitation to access shows for fans living near msg. We already get few shows per capita. For many of us the only option is to get in a car or plane and travel
the idea of limiting requests to zip codes so people stop buying tickets they dont need, it might be one of the most ridiculous things I've seen on here yet.
Define need. You can't. I need MSG tickets to trade for a PJ20 Mural. See the point.
replace "dont need" with "have no intention of using". make sense now? i dont see your point, no. you dont have one.
I live in IL. I have someone willing to trade me a PJ20 mural for 1 ticket to MSG. I want the PJ20 mural. Therefore I NEED 1 ticket to USE in a trade. Currently I could potentially pull this off if I lived in Asia but had no intention of ATTENDING the show. Theoretically by living closer to a venue there is a greater chance of ATTENDING a show. Hence my solution to alleviate the stress on tickets. You sure I don't have a point?
potentially, theoretically....
you have a point, a ridiculous one, but a point none the less
Why do you think ridiculous? I'm agreeing with you that it would be easier if folks only put in for shows they would attend. We know fans travel and shows are hard to come by. My suggestion is in recognition of your point.
I think it is ridiculous to suggest limiting shows to local zipcodes. Not even realistic. I suggested a start would be people stop buying tickets they arent going to use, only to be screaming for a ticket exchange a week later. you said something about fans traveling in response to that. I still dont know what that has to do with people buying tickets they dont use. then the point about what need is, and trading for a poster with someone from asia, i'm still lost. i guess all i'm saying is, the people screaming for a ticket exchange, in many cases bought tickets they had no business buying in the first place. its the neurotic pearl jam fan syndrome.
and there is no reason to wait around for ticketmaster to wipe your ass for you. if you have tickets to sell, find someone who wants the tickets and figure it out. its not hard.
Comments
What TM and PJ are doing right now by inflating prices and by delaying us from "trading out" our tickets, will eventually render our seats worth less than face value closer to the show. This will have burned some of their fan club members (for this tour) who will be more cautious with what tickets they buy for future tours. With fan club members requesting less tickets, more will go on sale to the general public, lowering the cost of resale values (perhaps.)
Again, I type this as an angry fan who can't sell back tickets post-pandemic... but I do see how, in the long-term, it may fix two issues at the same time which ends up lowering prices and increasing availability for everyone... especially with as few tours these guys go on anymore.
2005.....Hamilton
2011.....Toronto N1, Toronto N2, Hamilton
2013.....London, Buffalo
2014.....Detroit
2016.....Toronto N1 Toronto N2, Boston N1, Boston N2, Chicago N1
2018.....Seattle N1, Seattle N2
2022.....San Diego, Los Angeles N1, Los Angeles N2, Phoenix, Oakland N1, Oakland N2, Quebec City, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto
2023.....Fort Worth N1, Fort Worth N2, Austin N1, Austin N2
2024.....????
Also, since the clear expectation is that we will travel wherever they play, people's plans will always change at the last minute. There are kids, elderly parents, work commitments, and a million other things that might prevent someone from flying to Fresno for a concert.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
you have a point, a ridiculous one, but a point none the less
Wetlands 91
CBGB 91
Roseland 91
and many, many more
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
and there is no reason to wait around for ticketmaster to wipe your ass for you. if you have tickets to sell, find someone who wants the tickets and figure it out. its not hard.