“PJ Premium” on Ticketmaster?

JH6056

pjl44 said:

Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences 

No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix.  What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.

JH6056

OceansJenny said:

JH6056 said:

OceansJenny said:

cmalisze said:

Pearl Jam Fans Furious over Band Charging "Scalper" Ticket Prices (ticketnews.com)

Worth a read. 

“the band is once again using Ticketmaster mobile-only ticketing systems to strip their fans of ticket transfer or resale rights for their upcoming tour dates, save in New York and Colorado – states which require consumer choice in ticket format by law. With the transfer and resale restrictions in place, there should be no “scalping” but that’s where Ticketmaster “platinum” tickets come in.

For Pearl Jam, the “platinum” tickets are marked as “PJ Premium,” but it is just a slight variation in name on the same thing: taking tickets that would have been one price, and multiplying that number by a factor of 2-3 all while claiming to protect fans from “scalpers.”

Bingo - transfer restrictions + platinum tickets do no work together. If TM is going to charge a grand for tickets just give me my transfer rights back. You aren’t helping.

Yup to all you said OceansJenny.  And thanks @cmalisze that was KEY reading! 

I know I'm late to this discussion but wow.  Really deflated right now by all this.  And also shut out for 3rd PJ tour from 10 Club tix and Verfied fan tix.

Such a bummer, because the loss of Taylor Hawkins once again pounds in that you can't assume you'll have another chance, but even recognizing how much the 10 Club DOES do to look out for fans, these prices pound in the fact that some of us just canNOT afford any of these tix. The LEVEL of how high these Premium tix get to is shocking.  And disappointing.

Hey man - keep at it. Prices will drop as we get closer to the date. We got time!

Hope you're right, really do.  And... there's also a more basic question about this PJ Premium for me about where PJ is now that's eating at me, so I'll just have to process that quietly and maybe if I find a ticket maybe the live show will remind me that they haven't moved so far from where they meant so much to me.

Clapper

ddeschler said:

The "give and take" excuse falls a bit flat, when you consider all these layers were in place for the tour in 2020, with the exception of PJ Premium. 

Did TM hold PJ hostage, and say, "I know we did things one way for this tour in 2020, but we're only going to allow these rescheduled shows to happen if the band adds PJ Premium?"  I doubt it. 

Do you believe that business partnerships like this are based on terms for a single tour?  TM can't hold the band hostage and say "no rescheduled tour if we don't have premium seating "   But they can say, next time around, if you want to use our buildings and our platform (which you have no other choice on), our terms will be further away from what you ask for.   

There is also the revenue that companies (including the band) are trying to make up from the last two years.  None of these entities are not for profit organizations.  Businesses, including artists do this work for the money. Let their be no ambiguity  on that.  Its great if your product can be a band and music instead of a "real job"  but its still a job and their product and like anyone else they should be able to maximize that. 

I'll say it for the hundredth time. We can have a big chunk of seats reserved for 10 club and prices that are below market value where everyone in the draw has the same opportunity to get tickets with the trade off being limited premium tickets being available OR it can be straight up public sale at market value.  I cant stress this enough,  option 2 comes with an average ticket price of about $300 and almost zero chance of us getting tickets on the primary market. 

The ideal scenario of 10 clubbers getting tickets to every show they want at prices that they deem acceptable isn't real. The business has evolved, the band has evolved, the world has evolved. Nobody has to like that evolution but its not going backwards and folks can either manage their expectations and enjoy the remaining parts of the system that work for us or they can focus their energy on build a time machine to get them back to the 90's. 

droptheleash9

I get everything that people have complained about but we should be careful what we wish for. The band could very easily say "enough of everyone's complaining...no more ten club tickets...you can deal with fighting for tickets on ticketmaster or the secondary market." I think that we can't lose track of the fact that 10c members are still pretty fortunate all things considered with the chance to get tickets at low prices in some of the best seats in the house.

pjl44

Clapper said:

ddeschler said:

The "give and take" excuse falls a bit flat, when you consider all these layers were in place for the tour in 2020, with the exception of PJ Premium. 

Did TM hold PJ hostage, and say, "I know we did things one way for this tour in 2020, but we're only going to allow these rescheduled shows to happen if the band adds PJ Premium?"  I doubt it. 

Do you believe that business partnerships like this are based on terms for a single tour?  TM can't hold the band hostage and say "no rescheduled tour if we don't have premium seating "   But they can say, next time around, if you want to use our buildings and our platform (which you have no other choice on), our terms will be further away from what you ask for.   

There is also the revenue that companies (including the band) are trying to make up from the last two years.  None of these entities are not for profit organizations.  Businesses, including artists do this work for the money. Let their be no ambiguity  on that.  Its great if your product can be a band and music instead of a "real job"  but its still a job and their product and like anyone else they should be able to maximize that. 

I'll say it for the hundredth time. We can have a big chunk of seats reserved for 10 club and prices that are below market value where everyone in the draw has the same opportunity to get tickets with the trade off being limited premium tickets being available OR it can be straight up public sale at market value.  I cant stress this enough,  option 2 comes with an average ticket price of about $300 and almost zero chance of us getting tickets on the primary market. 

The ideal scenario of 10 clubbers getting tickets to every show they want at prices that they deem acceptable isn't real. The business has evolved, the band has evolved, the world has evolved. Nobody has to like that evolution but its not going backwards and folks can either manage their expectations and enjoy the remaining parts of the system that work for us or they can focus their energy on build a time machine to get them back to the 90's. 

Agree with all of this

JP218404

Clapper said:

ddeschler said:

The "give and take" excuse falls a bit flat, when you consider all these layers were in place for the tour in 2020, with the exception of PJ Premium. 

Did TM hold PJ hostage, and say, "I know we did things one way for this tour in 2020, but we're only going to allow these rescheduled shows to happen if the band adds PJ Premium?"  I doubt it. 

Do you believe that business partnerships like this are based on terms for a single tour?  TM can't hold the band hostage and say "no rescheduled tour if we don't have premium seating "   But they can say, next time around, if you want to use our buildings and our platform (which you have no other choice on), our terms will be further away from what you ask for.   

There is also the revenue that companies (including the band) are trying to make up from the last two years.  None of these entities are not for profit organizations.  Businesses, including artists do this work for the money. Let their be no ambiguity  on that.  Its great if your product can be a band and music instead of a "real job"  but its still a job and their product and like anyone else they should be able to maximize that. 

I'll say it for the hundredth time. We can have a big chunk of seats reserved for 10 club and prices that are below market value where everyone in the draw has the same opportunity to get tickets with the trade off being limited premium tickets being available OR it can be straight up public sale at market value.  I cant stress this enough,  option 2 comes with an average ticket price of about $300 and almost zero chance of us getting tickets on the primary market. 

The ideal scenario of 10 clubbers getting tickets to every show they want at prices that they deem acceptable isn't real. The business has evolved, the band has evolved, the world has evolved. Nobody has to like that evolution but its not going backwards and folks can either manage their expectations and enjoy the remaining parts of the system that work for us or they can focus their energy on build a time machine to get them back to the 90's. 

Bands cut deals with live nation for an entire tour. Example, The black crowes got $3M + for their money maker tour. Then a % of ticket sales over a certain amount. 

Plus let’s not forget the money that all bands give to the promoter from their merch. Depending on the band it could be anywhere from a 75/25 split. 

It’s a business. A business that couldn’t do ANYTHING for two years yet bands kept their crew on salary and paid them and their benefits. 

Pearl Jam and 10C have been extremely good to this fan base their entire career. No band, outside phish I would guess, does the most to make sure FANS get tickets. 

The game has changed and they have to change with it to provide US with the shot of getting the cheapest tickets the touring market needs. 

So everyone should just say THANK YOU

given2fly23

Agreed with the post by @Clapper.  People think this is 100% band decisions, it's not.  They're at the mercy of LiveNation/TM too and I trust that PJ/10C are doing the best they can for us while also taking care of themselves and their crew.  And as soon as what @droptheleash9 described happens, the days of doing an entire leg of a tour (like we are doing this May) are over.

OceansJenny

JH6056 said:

pjl44 said:

Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences 

No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix.  What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.

Yes! Plus it gets even more fun when the buyer finds out they can’t lower the price from $1k on the F2F, but TM can drop prices on their tickets.

bbiggs

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

cmalisze said:

Pearl Jam Fans Furious over Band Charging "Scalper" Ticket Prices (ticketnews.com)

Worth a read. 

"In its recent earnings report Live Nation cited the increased use of platinum pricing as a key driver of its record-breaking revenue."

Interesting.

Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.

Of course it is obvious.  Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though.  That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money.  And that's fine.  Just call it what it is.

mattcoz

JimmyV said:

Your periodic reminder that calling it PJ Premium was dumb. 

Yes. I imagine the reaction would have been much different if they were called what they are, Ticketmaster Platinum.

foriginalsin

rmwatson said:

aisleseats said:

Poncier said:

JR86440 said:

People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew,  etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable 

Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?

This is the point a lot of ppl keep overlooking. Platinum pricing is something that didn't even really exist until maybe 10 years ago. Prior to that, every band/artist in history successfully toured without it and just charged a fixed price for tickets. Many artists (including some even bigger than PJ) still do. I get that costs associated with touring have increased. But the increase in ticket prices over the years have reflected that.
So those of you who are making excuses for and defending PJ for caving in can go try to sell that BS elsewhere. Because I'm not buying it.

Do you believe that Ticketmaster sits there at the negotiation and says "Sure Pearl Jam management, have all these fan club seat allocations, and also, have non-transferable tickets so that bots cant gobble them up, oh, and also, let us run a verified fan for you to limit the market even more to your direct fan base and hopefully not scalpers, AND we are going to do all of this for nothing in return, we will even sell the regular tickets at a cheap cost for all"  It is not how that business, or the world, works.  Business contracts and about give and take - the business of Pearl Jam takes A LOT for the 10Club, and for the verified fan - the give is ultimately the Premium seats and that system.  I mean, they explicitly state as much in their tour announcement.  I really don't get what people don't understand about it.  And if they werent dealing with Ticketmaster and LiveNation, we wouldn' be seeing them live at all - so please don't argue that.    

Correct. 

JimmyV

mattcoz said:

JimmyV said:

Your periodic reminder that calling it PJ Premium was dumb. 

Yes. I imagine the reaction would have been much different if they were called what they are, Ticketmaster Platinum.

I think reaction would have been largely the same, but it would have been clearer to some people what they were and why they were being sold. I would love to hear the backstory on how they decided PJ Premium was the way to go, though. 

JimmyV

Clapper said:

ddeschler said:

The "give and take" excuse falls a bit flat, when you consider all these layers were in place for the tour in 2020, with the exception of PJ Premium. 

Did TM hold PJ hostage, and say, "I know we did things one way for this tour in 2020, but we're only going to allow these rescheduled shows to happen if the band adds PJ Premium?"  I doubt it. 

Do you believe that business partnerships like this are based on terms for a single tour?  TM can't hold the band hostage and say "no rescheduled tour if we don't have premium seating "   But they can say, next time around, if you want to use our buildings and our platform (which you have no other choice on), our terms will be further away from what you ask for.   

There is also the revenue that companies (including the band) are trying to make up from the last two years.  None of these entities are not for profit organizations.  Businesses, including artists do this work for the money. Let their be no ambiguity  on that.  Its great if your product can be a band and music instead of a "real job"  but its still a job and their product and like anyone else they should be able to maximize that. 

I'll say it for the hundredth time. We can have a big chunk of seats reserved for 10 club and prices that are below market value where everyone in the draw has the same opportunity to get tickets with the trade off being limited premium tickets being available OR it can be straight up public sale at market value.  I cant stress this enough,  option 2 comes with an average ticket price of about $300 and almost zero chance of us getting tickets on the primary market. 

The ideal scenario of 10 clubbers getting tickets to every show they want at prices that they deem acceptable isn't real. The business has evolved, the band has evolved, the world has evolved. Nobody has to like that evolution but its not going backwards and folks can either manage their expectations and enjoy the remaining parts of the system that work for us or they can focus their energy on build a time machine to get them back to the 90's. 

This is why push back on the idea that it would have been "easy" for Pearl Jam/10c to do X, Y, or Z for Baltimore people. Everything needs to be negotiated. 

foriginalsin

CantKeepmedown said:

foriginalsin said:

Speaking about venue holds, my buddy is a season ticket holder for the knicks. These tickets cost over $20k a year and hes had them for over 25 years. He just got 4 tickets for face from his “guy.”

1. He’s a huge fan, (thanks to my infection), but even if he wasnt, he deserves those tickets bc of his investment. Its the same investment we all make joining tenclub for a very small fee. In this case the tickets are going to pj fans who were shut out of everything, but again that doesnt matter. 

2. There are just way less tickets available than people realize.  Pj is playing 2 shows in the NE, and demand is crazy high.  Its even higher bc people have been waiting for years. You have to assume for a show in high demand that a portion of the tickets are going to people with money and connections. This isn’t something the band can control. Its just the way the world works. No ones pissed at jack nicholson bc he got to sit courtside forever at laker games. I cant afford Knicks season tickets. Should I be upset that my friend can? Thats a childish attitude. 

3. Pearl jam is CLEARLY at the top in terms of securing the largest amount and best tickets for its fanclub as previously stated. They dont have to do this. Life would be much easier for them if they didnt do it. 

Out of curiosity, where are your friends seats?

He wont know till almost show date.  This is the way it worked for the beacon eddie show. I got shut out and he somehow got 2 tickets, (beacon and msg are part of the same entertainment group).  When we finally got our beacon tickets, day of the show, they were in the back. He was like, “im always in the front for EVERY OTHER ARTIST, this is weird.” I had to explain that tenclub gets more tickets than other bands. Another example of how many tickets tenclub secures. 

mattcoz

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

bbiggs said:

cmalisze said:

Pearl Jam Fans Furious over Band Charging "Scalper" Ticket Prices (ticketnews.com)

Worth a read. 

"In its recent earnings report Live Nation cited the increased use of platinum pricing as a key driver of its record-breaking revenue."

Interesting.

Isn't that obvious? The entire point is pulling money out of the secondary market into the primary.

Of course it is obvious.  Some are suggesting the windfall of cash is all about snagging a bunch of fan club tickets and keeping those prices low though.  That is a part of it, but the bottom line is about making more money.  And that's fine.  Just call it what it is.

It's about Ticketmaster making money, yes. It's the deal that the band needs to make to keep Ticketmaster happy so that they agree to provide as many low priced tickets to the fan club as possible. It can be both things. In the end, does the band make more money? Honestly, I don't know, maybe. But, that extra money is what would have gone to the ticket resellers instead. Why is that better? If the band makes some extra money, which they can use to pay their employees well and to offset their carbon emissions, and we get to keep our low priced fan club tickets, that seems like a win-win.

foriginalsin

OceansJenny said:

cmalisze said:

Pearl Jam Fans Furious over Band Charging "Scalper" Ticket Prices (ticketnews.com)

Worth a read. 

“the band is once again using Ticketmaster mobile-only ticketing systems to strip their fans of ticket transfer or resale rights for their upcoming tour dates, save in New York and Colorado – states which require consumer choice in ticket format by law. With the transfer and resale restrictions in place, there should be no “scalping” but that’s where Ticketmaster “platinum” tickets come in.

For Pearl Jam, the “platinum” tickets are marked as “PJ Premium,” but it is just a slight variation in name on the same thing: taking tickets that would have been one price, and multiplying that number by a factor of 2-3 all while claiming to protect fans from “scalpers.”

Bingo - transfer restrictions + platinum tickets do no work together. If TM is going to charge a grand for tickets just give me my transfer rights back. You aren’t helping.

This article sounds like it was written by someone in this forum, missing some of the facts and drawing improper conclusions. 

Luckytwn1

OceansJenny said:

cmalisze said:

Pearl Jam Fans Furious over Band Charging "Scalper" Ticket Prices (ticketnews.com)

Worth a read. 

“the band is once again using Ticketmaster mobile-only ticketing systems to strip their fans of ticket transfer or resale rights for their upcoming tour dates, save in New York and Colorado – states which require consumer choice in ticket format by law. With the transfer and resale restrictions in place, there should be no “scalping” but that’s where Ticketmaster “platinum” tickets come in.

For Pearl Jam, the “platinum” tickets are marked as “PJ Premium,” but it is just a slight variation in name on the same thing: taking tickets that would have been one price, and multiplying that number by a factor of 2-3 all while claiming to protect fans from “scalpers.”

Bingo - transfer restrictions + platinum tickets do no work together. If TM is going to charge a grand for tickets just give me my transfer rights back. You aren’t helping.

You make a very important point and it was blatantly clear on Ed's tour. The biggest issue is F2F restrictions don't allow you to price tickets below face value and that is causing many fans to eat tickets. To make matters worse, TM was using the dynamic pricing to undercut the face value price of the 10C tickets on Ed's tour. It was especially devastating for anyone trying to resell a Platinum ticket they bought early on. That was not cool. 

Now of course, on a Pearl Jam tour, in most venues, there's no problem getting rid of an extra so it's a lesser issue but still, the transfer restrictions don't really fit together with hundreds or maybe even thousands of Platinum Tickets.

OceansJenny

What is with all the subsidy talk? Without the fan club i.e. us crazy people, I don’t think you sell out MSG at $250 a ticket. PJ is not a mainstream band anymore. If the fan club was dumped and we all had to pay inflated market prices it wouldn’t hold. IMO

Luckytwn1

OceansJenny said:

What is with all the subsidy talk? Without the fan club i.e. us crazy people, I don’t think you sell out MSG at $250 a ticket. PJ is not a mainstream band anymore. If the fan club was dumped and we all had to pay inflated market prices it wouldn’t hold. IMO

They wouldn't need to sell out the Garden at $250. The whole Live Nation model with dynamic pricing is predicated on selling as many seats as possible at high prices to maximize revenue and then if they have to drop the prices, it's fine. You have to run the math but let's say the average price is $125 for a 15,000 seat building. That's a gross of $1.875M. But let's say they sell 1000 seats at an average of $400, 5000 seats at $150, and the rest at $100. That's a gross of 2.05M. This is an oversimplification of how it works to be sure just for the sake of example and no doubt the actual implementation creates an even bigger spread. 

mattcoz

JimmyV said:

mattcoz said:

JimmyV said:

Your periodic reminder that calling it PJ Premium was dumb. 

Yes. I imagine the reaction would have been much different if they were called what they are, Ticketmaster Platinum.

I think reaction would have been largely the same, but it would have been clearer to some people what they were and why they were being sold. I would love to hear the backstory on how they decided PJ Premium was the way to go, though. 

Yeah, I meant that the reaction would be different in that it would be directed at Ticketmaster instead of Pearl Jam. It's definitely strange as they've used "Platinum" since like 2015.

JH6056 said:

pjl44 said:

Yeah, issuing fully transferable Ten Club tickets couldn't possibly lead to any undesirable unintended consequences 

No one is suggesting fully transferable Ten Club tix.  What was said above is, if you're gonna charge me $2,000.00 per ticket, make it transferable.

I totally agree with this. The point of non-transferable tickets is to prevent the resellers from scooping up face value tickets and reselling them at high prices. They aren't buying platinum tickets, that would be stupid. I would never pay these inflated prices if I didn't have complete control over what I could do with the tickets.