Ukraine

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  • MayDay10
    MayDay10 Posts: 11,855
    Im curious what the end game is supposed to be here.

    There have been a lot of strategic and punitive measures taken against Russia and people in power from sanctions to getting kicked out of sports bodies.  

    So what is next?  How would Putin and Russia start to gain favor and get these penalties reduced and turned off.  i don't see Putin making any concessions.

    Maybe the people who prop him up will put pressure on him to change his strategy?  Or the hope is they depose him?  Hoping the people rise up and somehow win the backing of the military?

    or will these things just fade and loosen over time?  You would think if Trump were elected, there will be fracturing in NATO and he will reduce these punishments.  Then we can see real mayhem in Europe while we sit at home.

    Can Putin be trusted to hold to agreements made in some sort of Summit with NATO?  

    No idea... but the biggest hope would be for the end of power for Putin somehow.  


    Seems like a really dumb idea to invade Ukraine.

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    What do these things even cost? Doesn't look cheap.


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,474
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    Figuring a good way to ignore this stuff for a while, when I get home, is going to be to watch Everything Is Illuminated.  If you haven't seen it (maybe you've read the book) it's a great love song of a movie to Ukraine.
    Is it the Liev Schrieber movie? With... I want to say Elijah would? have not seen it. I take it, it is worth a watch.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,534
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    Figuring a good way to ignore this stuff for a while, when I get home, is going to be to watch Everything Is Illuminated.  If you haven't seen it (maybe you've read the book) it's a great love song of a movie to Ukraine.
    Is it the Liev Schrieber movie? With... I want to say Elijah would? have not seen it. I take it, it is worth a watch.
    Yeah, it's - jesus - like 17, 18 years old now. But it's a solid movie, at least I think so. Eugene Hutz from Gogol Bordello is in it, too, and does a great job. Just the scenery, blend of cultures, it's good stuff. 

    We've always had big Ukee pride in my family due to my grandfather's family. But this movie kickstarted my deeper appreciation and understanding of both the country and my family.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,262
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Of course its a possibility  this  guy is bat shit crazy. A strong possibility 
    I don't think anyone has grounds for theorizing about and/or calling it "a strong possibility".
    How isnt  it? He has loads and is backed into a corner. And mad
    Not arguments... strong enough... to make it "a strong possibility" or not.
    My opinion.  As are all of these. Opinions only
    Sure. My opinion is no one, especially in here, have enough data or knowledge to draw the conclusion on whether Putin is one to use a first-strike nuke or not being a strong possibility. 

    History tells us no one has used one since the two in 1945.

    Except Russia's military nuclear doctrine allows for a "first strike" and tactical battlefield usage upon threats of overwhelming force, inclusive of economic sanctions and providing arms. The West's nuclear strategy is based on deterrence and MAD from a defensive posture. Hence, why NATO or western nations are not putting boots on the ground or creating no fly zones.

    There's a first time for everything. 
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  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,904
    Yeah i dont  see what history has to do with when this nutcase  decides to fire one


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • lindamarie73
    lindamarie73 Posts: 491
    Meltdown99 said:
    Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
    Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right.  Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters.   I sure hope he comes off  as strong and competent during the state of the Union.   
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,534
    lindamarie73 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
    Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right.  Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters.   I sure hope he comes off  as strong and competent during the state of the Union.   
    Speaking of mushbrains - you know you're not going to perceive anything he says as strong and/or competent, Linda.

    Linnnnnduhhhhh (in my Elaine voice, drugged up, with dark sunglasses on)
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    lindamarie73 said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
    Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right.  Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters.   I sure hope he comes off  as strong and competent during the state of the Union.   
    Speaking of mushbrains - you know you're not going to perceive anything he says as strong and/or competent, Linda.

    Linnnnnduhhhhh (in my Elaine voice, drugged up, with dark sunglasses on)
    LMAO
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,534
    OK OK it was Jerry in the glasses, forgot, but still...


  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,262
    Some don't seem to recall the history of putin on the ritz's highest placed "intelligence" asset. Each point, and the point in general, is further defined and explained in the link.

    Opinion: Five vile things Trump did to Zelensky and Ukraine that you forgot about

    With the Russian invasion of Ukraine getting more horrific, Donald Trump and his allies are frantically erasing the truth about Trump’s relations with Ukraine. Trump absurdly claims that as president, he stood strong behind Ukraine and NATO, even as his spinners comically downplay his corrupt and deeply malevolent betrayal of our ally.

    1. Spread propaganda about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election

    As early as 2017, Trump began voicing the conspiracy theory that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 presidential election. This was one of the things Trump pressured Zelensky to “investigate” while withholding military aid.

    It’s complete nonsense, and crucially, it echoed Russian propaganda that had a geopolitical purpose. Putin himself reportedly put this idea in Trump’s head. And Fiona Hill, then a top national security official, testified that this propaganda helped Russia by deflecting attention from Russia’s own interference in 2016 and by dividing the United States from an ally.

    2. Ousted the well-regarded U.S. ambassador to Ukraine

    Trump pushed out Marie Yovanovitch in 2019, after his lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani mounted a smear campaign against her. Yovanovitch was perceived as disloyal to Trump.

    3. Froze military assistance to Ukraine

    Well before extorting Zelensky, Trump alarmed officials by freezing military aid to Ukraine that Congress had appropriated, but without meaningful policy justification. Crucially, officials subsequently testified that granting this aid was important in dissuading Russian aggression, which would be in European and U.S. interests.

    4. Withheld a White House meeting from Zelensky

    In 2019, Trump communicated in various ways to Zelensky that a much-sought-after White House meeting would be conditioned on doing his corrupt dirt-digging on Joe Biden.

    5. Turned Ukraine policy over to Giuliani

    This was one of the most shocking subplots: Trump repeatedly instructed Zelensky to contact Giuliani to discuss what Zelensky would be required to do to please Trump. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security protocols deeply alarmed officials.

    Opinion | Five vile things Trump did to Volodymyr Zelensky and Ukraine that you forgot about - The Washington Post

    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    yeah, but it's somehow all biden's policy failures. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,597
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    OK OK it was Jerry in the glasses, forgot, but still...


    Someone was watching this on Comedy Central last night...
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  • mfc2006
    mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,491
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    OK OK it was Jerry in the glasses, forgot, but still...


    LOL
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    edited March 2022
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    brianlux said:
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    Which one are we?
  • Jearlpam0925
    Jearlpam0925 Deep South Philly Posts: 17,534
    brianlux said:
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    edited March 2022
    Jearlpam0925 said:
    brianlux said:
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.
    I think Volodymyr Zelenskyy would be on board with this take.
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,663
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    Which one are we?

    Jearlpam0925 said:
    brianlux said:
    Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums.  One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
    Interesting.
    Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.



    It's on it's second thread here (the first one was shut down after too many broken rules leading to a number of posters losing posting privileges).  The current thread is a long read!:
    The mods there (particularly on that thread) are very intolerant of getting off topic, arguing, getting personal, bating, trolling, etc.  That's the major difference.  The average of people who post is also higher there, so that might be a difference.

    I have no problem with humor and subscribe to George Carlin's belief that anything can be treated with humor.  But he also illustrated that with more serious subjects, using humor requires a much higher degree of savvy and an intellect that most of us here would posses in joking about a subject like the present one.  I know I don't have that kind of prowess.  Personally, I will look for levity about all this elsewhere.  If others find the humor appropriate, that's not for me to judge.  But I do think we could do without the arguing and personal attacks. 
    But I'm not playing thread cop.  That's not my job.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Give Peas A Chance…

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