Ukraine

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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,882
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics
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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,038
    Unfortunately, as I've said before, Ukraine is going to be a sacrificial lamb unless they boot Russian forces from their country.


  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,441
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics
    That was some video he presented. So sad man. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    nicknyr15 said:
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics
    That was some video he presented. So sad man. 
    They are handily winning the propaganda war, there's no doubt.  Good for them.  It's nice when propaganda meets the right cause. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 8,441
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics
    That was some video he presented. So sad man. 
    They are handily winning the propaganda war, there's no doubt.  Good for them.  It's nice when propaganda meets the right cause. 
    Very true. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,951
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics

    The concerns about establishing a no-fly zone are very valid and scary though. It's tough man.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,882
    PJ_Soul said:
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics

    The concerns about establishing a no-fly zone are very valid and scary though. It's tough man.

    I didn't say they weren't. And If I was him, I'd be requesting the same thing. 
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,637
    Unfortunately, as I've said before, Ukraine is going to be a sacrificial lamb unless they boot Russian forces from their country.




    The switchblade drones announced today sound like they could be a game changer. Russia’s problem is they don’t have the numbers to occupy the country. There only choice is to pound and pound and hope the residents leave the country. If they continue to target civilians it sound like congress will keep upping the weapons and tech being sent over to inflict as much pain to the Russian military as possible. At some point hopefully Russians will say how many of our boys need to die for this. Hello proxy war.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    Unfortunately, as I've said before, Ukraine is going to be a sacrificial lamb unless they boot Russian forces from their country.




    The switchblade drones announced today sound like they could be a game changer. Russia’s problem is they don’t have the numbers to occupy the country. There only choice is to pound and pound and hope the residents leave the country. If they continue to target civilians it sound like congress will keep upping the weapons and tech being sent over to inflict as much pain to the Russian military as possible. At some point hopefully Russians will say how many of our boys need to die for this. Hello proxy war.
    Hello Afghanistan (1980s) and Vietnam.  Total proxy which we all talked about a few weeks ago.  Here's the astounding number.. so far there have been 2 million refugees (thereabouts).  Ukraine's population is 43MM.  They aren't going anywhere.  Russia has zero chance of subjugating Ukraine.  You cannot hold a people that refuse to be held.  And when teh whole western world is sending in weapons...well you see it. 

    Another Russian general has died.  That makes four.  The US only lost 11 generals in WW2.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    Such a weird feeling with all this "were sending this", ""this will help them", "we're looking into this", "Russia you are bad" when civilians are being openly murdered and children bombed. 

    I get the reality of it. But at the same time there is a hint of a feeling of it all being a theatre, when in an alternate universe European countries + NATO could have stormed into Ukraine with armed forced and made the bet that Russia would be bluffing about using nukes in a situation like this.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 13,869
    edited March 2022
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. Man. The more this little man is backed into a corner the more likely.  Putin wont  give  up
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    edited March 2022
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,951
    PJ_Soul said:
    Zelenksy requested a no-fly zone from the U.S. in his address to our congress today....

    Zelensky to US lawmakers: 'We need you right now' as he invokes Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - CNNPolitics

    The concerns about establishing a no-fly zone are very valid and scary though. It's tough man.

    I didn't say they weren't. And If I was him, I'd be requesting the same thing. 

    I knew you didn't say they weren't. I was just commenting on the topic, haha. :wink:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    edited March 2022
    A journalist Aaron Sorkin-nails Jen Psaki right now on offensive vs defensive weapons. Surprised by the movie-ness of the exchange. 


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 13,869
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    Agreed
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
    Yes,

    But we do not know if that is the choice. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,024
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
    Yes,

    But we do not know if that is the choice. 
    Finding out the answer is the problem though. And there are things we do know, like Putin on the ritz threatening escalation if foreign troops come to the direct aid of Ukraine, Russian battlefield doctrine allowing the use of in theater nuclear weapons, tactical nukes, and any interference being considered a direct attack on Russia, no fly zone. Personally, I think the west should continue to pressure China to stay out and provide offensive capability to make them pay a heavier price. Maybe mass troops in NATO border countries and feign a massive direct confrontation. But it’d be at the risk of seeing a mushroom cloud or two. Then what?
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    Halifax2TheMax said:

     Then what?

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,637
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
    Yes,

    But we do not know if that is the choice. 

    Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

    This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
    Yes,

    But we do not know if that is the choice. 

    Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

    This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 
    First, Strongman - be it Putin or the North Korea dude - threaten all the time. But whatever. I understand that the risk is to great to take the chance of trying to call a bluff. No matter how many children get bombed. That's why I mentioned that in "an alternate universe"...

    Well well, rough seeing and hearing about what is happening as you say.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,675
    You think  russia is bluffing on nukes?. 
    I don't know. 

    I don't think anyone knows. 

    I doubt even the top peeps in Russia knows.

    What I do know is that the "international community" accepts children being slaughtered and bombed because of the risk of them not bluffing.
    well if it's a choice between a few thousand kids being murdered (awful and incomprehensible) and the earth no longer being habitable (worse), the choice is obvious. 
    Yes,

    But we do not know if that is the choice. 

    Putin threatened us with nukes three times. I think we take him at his word as ironic as that is. The EU and US apparently are supplying Ukraine with weapons and a small country can hold off a Russian invasion. I’m not sure how many believed that as possible before the war. Hopefully the pressure keeps mounting on Putin to stop. It is rough watching Ukraine civilians get bombed. This can’t end soon enough.

    This has driven congress, republicans and democrats to work together to pressure Biden to send better weapons to help Ukraine. 
    I never thought he could take and hold Ukraine.  I am surprised by how ineffective they are at just getting into cities. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    I understand we are not talking the engineering excellence of the premium figher jet JAS 39 Gripen here, but this can not be cheap for Russia:


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,525
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • "natural self-purification". jesus
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 39,024
    Pretty simple. Stark terms. Very moving. Damn.

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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,038
    As with Iran, when it comes to nukes, sanctions and agreements work (until some fuckhead comes along and pulls us out of said agreements).

    It sucks but the reality is until Russia waves a white flag they can always play the game of hovering their finger over the nuke button.

    Looking beyond the actual war, Putin has isolated that country for the indefinite future no? I don't think there's any other option at this point than saying, "you can play with the rest of us when you prove you're decommissioning and turning off what nukes you have." Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in this kind of holding pattern for forever.
  • Pretty simple. Stark terms. Very moving. Damn.

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CbLcZtXjlUI/?utm_medium=copy_link
    he is going to be remembered very fondly throughout history for how he has handled this. 
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,033
    As with Iran, when it comes to nukes, sanctions and agreements work (until some fuckhead comes along and pulls us out of said agreements).

    It sucks but the reality is until Russia waves a white flag they can always play the game of hovering their finger over the nuke button.

    Looking beyond the actual war, Putin has isolated that country for the indefinite future no? I don't think there's any other option at this point than saying, "you can play with the rest of us when you prove you're decommissioning and turning off what nukes you have." Otherwise, we're going to be stuck in this kind of holding pattern for forever.

    I agree with all of this except, of course, there will never be nuclear disarmament in Russia unless the the same hold for other countries, especially the U.S. (and probably China and maybe N. Korea).

    On a slightly different subject:
    I have mentioned here before that I live in a very conservative county in California.  Since the Russian invasion into Ukraine began, I have noticed a greatly reduced number of Trump flags and even a reduced number of F.U. Biden flags, etc.  Funny how the radical right suddenly finds itself a bit less outspoken, perhaps even ashamed or embarrassed by their naive, sheep-like following of the second most dangerous man on the planet (though a far second at that).  

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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Posts: 17,038
    Right - this is what I was referring to before. This ultimately needs to be a game of one country de-nuking(?) after another. And as much as I don't think it will ultimately happen, it does have a greater chance of happening if we're talking about sanctions and being able to partake in the global finance game.
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