Ukraine

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,365
    Spiritual_Chaos said:



    Russian Standard is god awful. Good riddance.
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  • OffSheGoes35
    OffSheGoes35 Posts: 3,517
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    AND HERE I SIT EATING CHIPS AND LOOKING WHERE THE HELL I CAN FIND THE MOVIE  "THE BLOB" FOR RENT


    Remember the Fredagsmys day to keep it holy. 
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,486
    OffSheGoes35 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    AND HERE I SIT EATING CHIPS AND LOOKING WHERE THE HELL I CAN FIND THE MOVIE  "THE BLOB" FOR RENT


    Remember the Fredagsmys day to keep it holy. 

    Hehe. Here you come popping out of the closet





    Hehe. Fredagsmys starts now. Chuck Russel's The Blob. A cold non russian beer. 


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:



    Russian Standard is god awful. Good riddance.
    i've never tried any russian vodka. so many of them are at or near the bottom shelf. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:



    Russian Standard is god awful. Good riddance.
    i've never tried any russian vodka. so many of them are at or near the bottom shelf. 
    Stoli is the only one I ve ever had.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,486
    edited February 2022
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:



    Russian Standard is god awful. Good riddance.
    i've never tried any russian vodka. so many of them are at or near the bottom shelf. 
    Much of the bottom shelf russian vodka is as russian as this is german (info from watching a youtube video once):






    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • OffSheGoes35
    OffSheGoes35 Posts: 3,517
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    OffSheGoes35 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    AND HERE I SIT EATING CHIPS AND LOOKING WHERE THE HELL I CAN FIND THE MOVIE  "THE BLOB" FOR RENT


    Remember the Fredagsmys day to keep it holy. 

    Hehe. Here you come popping out of the closet





    Hehe. Fredagsmys starts now. Chuck Russel's The Blob. A cold non russian beer. 


    I know you don't miss me, because you see me in your nightmares. ;)
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,338
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Annafalk said:
    It’s Putin acting like Hitler, Zelensky actually has Jewish heritage.
    I doubt Russians even want this war at all.

    Then they should try and overthrow him instead of being his war puppets.
    Overthrow who?
    Putin.  It is encouraging seeing the protests in Russia, but that piece of shit needs to be in the bottom of a river.
    Agreed.  Wish that was feasible.  

    Yes, and this is where the whole thing becomes incredibly difficult and complex.  In the world we live in today, how doe someone with that much power get deposed?  Is it even possible?
    If the CIA was able to create the heart attack gun 70+ years ago, I have no doubt we, along with many other countries have the capability to eliminate putin without detection. Being that he is viewed by many as an existential threat, I am surprised he is still around playing Risk.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    edited February 2022
    dignin said:

    Western powers have realised Russia is largely immune to sanctions


    Analysis: Only the financial equivalent of unleashing a nuclear arsenal will dent Russia’s foreign assets war chest


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/western-powers-have-realised-russia-is-largely-immune-to-sanctions-ukraine-putin

    I was going to post this article by Robert Reich earlier and ask folks here how accurate they find his summations.  His first numbered point addresses the issue of sanctions and it seems to agree that sanctions alone will do little to change things.  That's a sobering thought because then, what the hell else is there?  I don't see an all-out war being the answer.  But what is?

    Eight sobering realities about Putin’s invasion of Ukraine

    We must do what we can to contain Vladimir Putin’s aggression in Ukraine. But we also need to be clear-eyed about it, and face the costs. Economics can’t be separated from politics, and neither can be separated from history. Here are eight sobering realities:

    1. Will the economic sanctions now being put into effect stop Putin from seeking to take over all of Ukraine? No. They will complicate Russia’s global financial transactions but they will not cripple the Russian economy. After Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula in 2014, the US and its allies imposed economic sanctions which slowed the Russian economy temporarily, but Russia soon rebounded. Since then, Russia has taken steps to lessen its reliance on foreign debt and investment, which means that similar sanctions will have less effect. In addition, the rise of cryptocurrencies and other digital assets allow Russia to bypass bank transfers, which are the control points for sanctions. Bottom line: the sanctions already imposed or threatened could reduce Russia’s gross domestic product, but only by a few percentage points.

    2. What sort of sanctions would seriously damage Russia? Sanctions on Russia’s enormous oil and gas exports could cause substantial harm. Russia produces 10 million barrels of oil a day, which is about 10 percent of global demand. It ranks third in world oil production (behind the United States and Saudi Arabia). It ranks second in natural gas (behind the US), according to the US Energy Information Administration.

    3. Then why not impose sanctions on them? Because that would seriously harm consumers in Europe and the US – pushing up energy prices and worsening inflation (now running at 7.5% annually in the US, a 40-year high). Although the US imports very little Russian oil or natural gas, oil and natural gas markets are global – which means shortages that push up prices in one part of the world will have similar effects elsewhere. The price of oil in the US is already approaching $100 a barrel, up from about $65 a year ago. The price of gas at the pump is averaging $3.53 a gallon, according to AAA. For most Americans, that gas-pump price is the single most important indicator of inflation, not just because they fuel their cars with gas but because the cost is emblazoned in big numbers outside every gas station in America. (The biggest beneficiaries of these price increases, by the way: energy companies like Halliburton, Occidental Petroleum and Schlumberger, which are now leading the S&P 500. Anyone in favor of putting a windfall profits tax on them?)

    4. Will stronger sanctions weaken Putin’s control over Russia? Possibly. But they could also have the opposite effect – enabling Putin to fuel Russia’s suspicions toward the west and stir up even more Russian nationalism. The harshest US measures would cause the average Russian to pay higher prices for food and clothing or devalue pensions and savings accounts because of a crash in the ruble or Russian markets, but these might be seen as necessary sacrifices that rally Russians around Putin.

    5. Any other foreign policy consequences we should be watching? In a word: China. Russia’s concern about the west has already led to a rapprochement with China. A strong alliance between the two most powerful world autocracies could be worrisome.

    6. What about domestic politics here in the US? Foreign policy crises tend to drive domestic policy off the headlines, and weaken reform movements. Putin’s aggression in Ukraine has already quieted conversations in America about voting rights, filibuster reform, and Build Back Better – at least for now. Large-scale war, if it ever comes to that, deadens reform. The first world war brought the progressive era to a halt. The second ended FDR’s New Deal. Vietnam stopped Lyndon Johnson’s Great Society.

    Wars and the threat of wars also legitimate huge military expenditures and giant military bureaucracies. America is already spending $776bn a year on the military, a sum greater than the next 10 giant military powers (including Russia and China) together. Wars also create fat profits for big corporations in war industries.

    The possibility of war also distracts the public from failures of domestic politics, as the Spanish-American war did for President William McKinley and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq did for George W Bush. (Hopefully, Biden’s advisers aren’t thinking this way.)

    7. Could the sanctions lead to real war between Russia and the west? Unlikely. Americans don’t want Americans to die in order to protect Ukraine (most Americans don’t even know where Ukraine is, let alone our national interest in protecting it). And neither Russia nor the US wants to be annihilated in a nuclear holocaust.

    But international crises such as this one always run the risk of getting out of hand. Russia and the US have giant stockpiles of nuclear weapons. What if one is set off accidentally? More likely: what if Russia cyber-attacks the US, causing massive damage to US utilities, communications, banks, hospitals, and transportation networks here? What if Russian troops threaten Nato members along Ukraine’s borders? Under these conditions, might the US be willing to commit ground troops?

    Advertisement

    Those who have fought ground and air wars know war is hell. Subsequent generations tend to forget. By the eve of the first world war, many in America and Britain spoke of the glories of large-scale warfare because so few remembered actual warfare. Today, most Americans have no direct experience of war. Afghanistan and Iraq were abstractions for most of us. Vietnam has faded from our collective memory.

    8. What is Putin really after? Not just keeping Ukraine out of Nato, because Nato itself isn’t Putin’s biggest worry. After all, Hungary and Poland are Nato members but are governed in ways that resemble Russia more than western democracies. Putin’s real fear is liberal democracy, which poses a direct threat to authoritarian “strongmen” like him (just as it did to Donald Trump). Putin wants to keep liberal democracy far away from Russia.

    Putin’s means of keeping western liberal democracy at bay isn’t just to invade Ukraine, of course. It’s also to stoke division inside the west by fueling racist nationalism in western Europe and the United States. In this, Trump and Trumpism continue to be Putin’s most important ally.










    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,530
    Spiritual_Chaos said:

    its a 21st century world. new frontier and new area of attack.....

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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,530
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    they also have a sizeable population to keep fed though, which seems a reasonable reason for the purchase. shouldnt a governments major priority be the welfare of its citizens?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    I have to say, Tish, it was a mixed bag coming across this article.  I was looking for some hopeful signs, and what Reich says here offers a little of that.  But he does construct a clear larger picture of what's going on and the information is helpful.  I can't help but wonder how much larger of a roll China is going to play in all of this.

    Another thing I wanted to ask is if anyone has come across any ideas for what we can do to help from so far away.  I have a cousin who is half-Armenian and Ukraine has the fifth largest Armenian community in the world, so for him this all feels a bit personal and he is very concerned, and he asked if I had any thoughts on what we can do from afar.  I told him I was sorry to say I haven't a clue.  I imagine many of us feel at least a bit helpless.   Any idea would be appreciated!


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,939
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Annafalk said:
    It’s Putin acting like Hitler, Zelensky actually has Jewish heritage.
    I doubt Russians even want this war at all.

    Then they should try and overthrow him instead of being his war puppets.
    Overthrow who?
    Putin.  It is encouraging seeing the protests in Russia, but that piece of shit needs to be in the bottom of a river.
    It is also encouraging, to me, that some of our friends here who we know are Trump supporters are standing firmly with Ukraine.  Thank you.  That tells me that the pro-Putin strain that infects some part of the country isn't widespread.

    @Spiritual_Chaos - can you tell me why Sweden never entered NATO?

    Might be completely wrong but:

    Historically:
    Sweden decided way back to keep themselves as a country neutral and alliance free. I think it comes from some King declaring that in a doctrine after Russia backstabbed our allience and took Finland from us. In the 1900s. And that has been a virtue. 200+ years of not being in a war. It's a tradition rooted in Sweden to stay neutral.

    Post WW2:
    Sweden had survived the war and the country was kept intact by being officially neutral. We came out on the other side without a country in ruin and fear of further wars. There was not seen to be any need to be a part of a military alliance.

    Current:
    There is no majority in our country to join NATO. But it has always been a topic of discussion here. The right wing has always wanted to join, the left cherish our tradition of neutrality. Sweden has more often than not been govern by the Social Democrats who have been opposed to the idea, and so has the general population. But people have become more positive to being a member of NATO over time. I think in recent surveys, the split is 50/50. 

    So, I don't think a membership down the line after the right wing can muster up a majority is out of the question. The right wing is taking support from a racist party that are against NATO and can't decide who is worse of Putin and Joe Biden... so... who knows...




    Thanks.  Check out that Putin is threatening Sweden and Finland.  I would be interested in if that encourages people to stay out of Nato, or rush to join.  Sounds like for the Fins, it's moving them closer to NATO. 
    I'd be terrified to live in a country that is moving itself closer to the brink of annihilation by a fucking insane person with a nuclear arsenal. 


    well…in two short years you get that chance again.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,530
    brianlux said:
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    I have to say, Tish, it was a mixed bag coming across this article.  I was looking for some hopeful signs, and what Reich says here offers a little of that.  But he does construct a clear larger picture of what's going on and the information is helpful.  I can't help but wonder how much larger of a roll China is going to play in all of this.

    Another thing I wanted to ask is if anyone has come across any ideas for what we can do to help from so far away.  I have a cousin who is half-Armenian and Ukraine has the fifth largest Armenian community in the world, so for him this all feels a bit personal and he is very concerned, and he asked if I had any thoughts on what we can do from afar.  I told him I was sorry to say I haven't a clue.  I imagine many of us feel at least a bit helpless.   Any idea would be appreciated!



    SC posted a link. good luck finding it now...

    maybe pm him to ask for it?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    we have a very sizable Ukranian population here in Manitoba (per capita the most in canada). This is going to be felt around here in a big way. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,939
    edited February 2022
    brianlux said:
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    I have to say, Tish, it was a mixed bag coming across this article.  I was looking for some hopeful signs, and what Reich says here offers a little of that.  But he does construct a clear larger picture of what's going on and the information is helpful.  I can't help but wonder how much larger of a roll China is going to play in all of this.

    Another thing I wanted to ask is if anyone has come across any ideas for what we can do to help from so far away.  I have a cousin who is half-Armenian and Ukraine has the fifth largest Armenian community in the world, so for him this all feels a bit personal and he is very concerned, and he asked if I had any thoughts on what we can do from afar.  I told him I was sorry to say I haven't a clue.  I imagine many of us feel at least a bit helpless.   Any idea would be appreciated!




    That was a very good article, thanks for posting 

    as far as what we could do, since everything with Putin is walls of mirrors, I wouldn’t be surprised if we are giving Ukraine indirect military help. Since we just sent over a lot of military equipment, it’s possible we could be supporting them with deployment of equipment,  logistics, satellite data and strategy. Not enough to win a war against Putin, but enough to let him know we can direct Ukraine to inflict significant harm on his troops. All thru a wilderness of mirrors and mercenaries untraceable to the pentagon.

    welcome back to the Cold War.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,365
    brianlux said:
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    I have to say, Tish, it was a mixed bag coming across this article.  I was looking for some hopeful signs, and what Reich says here offers a little of that.  But he does construct a clear larger picture of what's going on and the information is helpful.  I can't help but wonder how much larger of a roll China is going to play in all of this.

    Another thing I wanted to ask is if anyone has come across any ideas for what we can do to help from so far away.  I have a cousin who is half-Armenian and Ukraine has the fifth largest Armenian community in the world, so for him this all feels a bit personal and he is very concerned, and he asked if I had any thoughts on what we can do from afar.  I told him I was sorry to say I haven't a clue.  I imagine many of us feel at least a bit helpless.   Any idea would be appreciated!


    This might help

    https://www.boston.com/community/tell-us/how-to-help-ukrainians/
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  • JB16057
    JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    JB16057 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Former Trump Sec of State apparently under the assumption Russia is currently a communist regime


    Did you watch the video? Is he on a scooter?
    Looks like he’s on one of those scooters folks use when they’re in a boot. What a wuss to not stop and take questions. Embarrassing. Colin Powell never acted like that.
    Is it embarrassing when Biden doesn't stop to take questions?
    As POTUS, no. As a private, former POTUS, it would be.
    I disagree. As POTUS, you are an elected official and the people you serve deserve to ask questions and get answers. Biden has walked away from the press multiple times, embarrassingly.

    Mike Pompeo is not elected official or even a current government official and you think it's embarrassing he didn't stop to take questions. He is a private citizen and doesn't owe anyone anything.

    If that's not a double standard, I don't know what is.

    Want another double standard? I've read here that Trump hurt NATO. Biden hurt NATO with what he did in Afghanistan but I don't see anyone calling Biden out for that. Trump did his fair share of damage but Biden did not treat NATO any better and followed through with damaging our relationship with our NATO allies.


    German politician Armin Laschet, the heir-apparent to outgoing German Chancellor Angela Merkel, described the situation even more harshly.

    “This is the greatest debacle that NATO has seen since its foundation, and it is an epochal change that we are facing,” he said this week.

    That’s the kind of criticism European officials might have expected Trump to earn rather than Biden, given the former president described the alliance as “obsolete” during his campaign to win the White House in 2016. NATO officials and European leaders heaved a sigh of relief when Biden defeated Trump. Still, they learned with respect to Afghanistan that Biden would be “much more friendly” than Trump, as one official put it — but not any more deferential to European views.

    “At the moment when the Biden administration took over earlier this year, most of the European allies, they preferred to keep a very limited military presence,” the European official told the Washington Examiner. “The Biden administration decided that they wanted to complete the withdrawal ... They were willing to talk to allies, to listen to them, but the decision was still their decision.”

    In June, Biden said he had “strong consensus among the leaders ... on Afghanistan” during his appearance at the NATO summit in Brussels. That statement belied the disagreement over his decision to withdraw so soon after taking office, and the fall of Kabul just months later has caused transatlantic frustration to break into public.

    “It looks like NATO has been completely overtaken by American unilateral decisions,” former British national security adviser Peter Ricketts told Financial Times. “First of all, Trump’s decision to start talking to the Taliban about leaving and then the Biden decision to set a timetable.”

    Ricketts continued: “The Afghanistan operation was always going to end sometime. It was never going to go on forever. But the manner in which it’s been done has been humiliating and damaging to NATO.”


  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    brianlux said:
    tish said:
    ^great info in your post, Bri. In response to #5, China is buying Russias wheat to lessen their hit.

    I have to say, Tish, it was a mixed bag coming across this article.  I was looking for some hopeful signs, and what Reich says here offers a little of that.  But he does construct a clear larger picture of what's going on and the information is helpful.  I can't help but wonder how much larger of a roll China is going to play in all of this.

    Another thing I wanted to ask is if anyone has come across any ideas for what we can do to help from so far away.  I have a cousin who is half-Armenian and Ukraine has the fifth largest Armenian community in the world, so for him this all feels a bit personal and he is very concerned, and he asked if I had any thoughts on what we can do from afar.  I told him I was sorry to say I haven't a clue.  I imagine many of us feel at least a bit helpless.   Any idea would be appreciated!


    This might help

    https://www.boston.com/community/tell-us/how-to-help-ukrainians/

    Excellent, thanks!  That's what I meant- what we as individuals can personally do, not we as a nation (for some reason, governors and presidents won't take my advice, lol).
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

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