I still don't see any upside here at all. Like the short-term and long-term benefits are completely fucked for these idiots. Worst case scenario - sure, take an empty Ukraine, call it Russia or whatever you want to call it. Meld with Belarus, fine. But then you're completely shut off to the rest of the world (albeit with a few shady exceptions), your currency is garbage, and you can no longer trade nor access capital and investments outside of your own country? What's the upside to the filthy rich people there? Zero right? The only upside is Vlad being petulant.
I definitely don't think he anticipated the response from the world, particularly Germany.
I mean it's not good, because the logical thing to do I guess is pander to him and let him think he won something because otherwise he has every excuse in his pea brain to just start declaring war on the world because these idiots are fucked. If only I was guaranteed that non-Russian countries, or Anonymous or someone, had the definitive technology to "outgun" Russia on the tech side and disable all of their ICBM ignitions or something.
Anyway, I'm glad how we/the U.S., for the most part, have handled everything - ride in the backseat, provide guidance/defense/money to Ukraine and the EU and let them do the leading.
he's nowhere near backed into a corner yet. he may be a bit nuts, but he's not stupid. I doubt he's going to off himself just to spite the world.
I don't think offing himself is among the top ten things he'd do to spite the world.
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Of course its a possibility this guy is bat shit crazy. A strong possibility
I don't think anyone has grounds for theorizing about and/or calling it "a strong possibility".
How isnt it? He has loads and is backed into a corner. And mad
Not arguments... strong enough... to make it "a strong possibility" or not.
My opinion. As are all of these. Opinions only
Sure. My opinion is no one, especially in here, have enough data or knowledge to draw the conclusion on whether Putin is one to use a first-strike nuke or not being a strong possibility.
History tells us no one has used one since the two in 1945.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Figuring a good way to ignore this stuff for a while, when I get home, is going to be to watch Everything Is Illuminated. If you haven't seen it (maybe you've read the book) it's a great love song of a movie to Ukraine.
Im curious what the end game is supposed to be here.
There have been a lot of strategic and punitive measures taken against Russia and people in power from sanctions to getting kicked out of sports bodies.
So what is next? How would Putin and Russia start to gain favor and get these penalties reduced and turned off. i don't see Putin making any concessions.
Maybe the people who prop him up will put pressure on him to change his strategy? Or the hope is they depose him? Hoping the people rise up and somehow win the backing of the military?
or will these things just fade and loosen over time? You would think if Trump were elected, there will be fracturing in NATO and he will reduce these punishments. Then we can see real mayhem in Europe while we sit at home.
Can Putin be trusted to hold to agreements made in some sort of Summit with NATO?
No idea... but the biggest hope would be for the end of power for Putin somehow.
Figuring a good way to ignore this stuff for a while, when I get home, is going to be to watch Everything Is Illuminated. If you haven't seen it (maybe you've read the book) it's a great love song of a movie to Ukraine.
Is it the Liev Schrieber movie? With... I want to say Elijah would? have not seen it. I take it, it is worth a watch.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Figuring a good way to ignore this stuff for a while, when I get home, is going to be to watch Everything Is Illuminated. If you haven't seen it (maybe you've read the book) it's a great love song of a movie to Ukraine.
Is it the Liev Schrieber movie? With... I want to say Elijah would? have not seen it. I take it, it is worth a watch.
Yeah, it's - jesus - like 17, 18 years old now. But it's a solid movie, at least I think so. Eugene Hutz from Gogol Bordello is in it, too, and does a great job. Just the scenery, blend of cultures, it's good stuff.
We've always had big Ukee pride in my family due to my grandfather's family. But this movie kickstarted my deeper appreciation and understanding of both the country and my family.
Of course its a possibility this guy is bat shit crazy. A strong possibility
I don't think anyone has grounds for theorizing about and/or calling it "a strong possibility".
How isnt it? He has loads and is backed into a corner. And mad
Not arguments... strong enough... to make it "a strong possibility" or not.
My opinion. As are all of these. Opinions only
Sure. My opinion is no one, especially in here, have enough data or knowledge to draw the conclusion on whether Putin is one to use a first-strike nuke or not being a strong possibility.
History tells us no one has used one since the two in 1945.
Except Russia's military nuclear doctrine allows for a "first strike" and tactical battlefield usage upon threats of overwhelming force, inclusive of economic sanctions and providing arms. The West's nuclear strategy is based on deterrence and MAD from a defensive posture. Hence, why NATO or western nations are not putting boots on the ground or creating no fly zones.
Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right. Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters. I sure hope he comes off as strong and competent during the state of the Union.
Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right. Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters. I sure hope he comes off as strong and competent during the state of the Union.
Speaking of mushbrains - you know you're not going to perceive anything he says as strong and/or competent, Linda.
Linnnnnduhhhhh (in my Elaine voice, drugged up, with dark sunglasses on)
Biden was asked if Americans should be worried about nuclear war, Biden said “no.”
Well at least our mushbrain Presidents handlers got this one right. Creating a panic by saying Yes does nobody any good, other then Putin and his supporters. I sure hope he comes off as strong and competent during the state of the Union.
Speaking of mushbrains - you know you're not going to perceive anything he says as strong and/or competent, Linda.
Linnnnnduhhhhh (in my Elaine voice, drugged up, with dark sunglasses on)
Some don't seem to recall the history of putin on the ritz's highest placed "intelligence" asset. Each point, and the point in general, is further defined and explained in the link.
Opinion: Five vile things Trump did to Zelensky and Ukraine that you forgot about
With the Russian invasion of Ukraine getting more horrific, Donald Trump and his allies are franticallyerasing the truth about Trump’s relations with Ukraine. Trump absurdly claims that as president, he stood strong behind Ukraine and NATO, even as his spinners comically downplay his corrupt and deeply malevolent betrayal of our ally.
1. Spread propaganda about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election
As early as 2017, Trump began voicing the conspiracy theory that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 presidential election. This was one of the things Trump pressured Zelensky to “investigate” while withholding military aid.
It’s complete nonsense, and crucially, it echoed Russian propaganda that had a geopolitical purpose. Putin himself reportedly put this idea in Trump’s head. And Fiona Hill, then a top national security official, testified that this propaganda helped Russia by deflecting attention from Russia’s own interference in 2016 and by dividing the United States from an ally.
2. Ousted the well-regarded U.S. ambassador to Ukraine
Trump pushed out Marie Yovanovitch in 2019, after his lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani mounted a smear campaign against her. Yovanovitch was perceived as disloyal to Trump.
3. Froze military assistance to Ukraine
Well before extorting Zelensky, Trump alarmed officials by freezing military aid to Ukraine that Congress had appropriated, but without meaningful policy justification. Crucially, officials subsequently testified that granting this aid was important in dissuading Russian aggression, which would be in European and U.S. interests.
4. Withheld a White House meeting from Zelensky
In 2019, Trump communicated in various ways to Zelensky that a much-sought-after White House meeting would be conditioned on doing his corrupt dirt-digging on Joe Biden.
5. Turned Ukraine policy over to Giuliani
This was one of the most shocking subplots: Trump repeatedly instructed Zelensky to contact Giuliani to discuss what Zelensky would be required to do to please Trump. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security protocols deeply alarmed officials.
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Interesting.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Interesting.
Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Interesting.
Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.
I think Volodymyr Zelenskyy would be on board with this take.
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Besides the news, etc. I've been following people's take on what's happening in Ukraine on two forums. One of them seems to take it lot more seriously than an the other.
Interesting.
Which forums? What does that mean? My personal view on life overall is it's better to laugh than cry, because if you keep getting consumed by every terrible thing in this world you'll never be able to come up for air. Levity is needed.
It's on it's second thread here (the first one was shut down after
too many broken rules leading to a number of posters losing posting
privileges). The current thread is a long read!:
The
mods there (particularly on that thread) are very intolerant of getting
off topic, arguing, getting personal, bating, trolling, etc. That's
the major difference. The average of people who post is also higher
there, so that might be a difference.
I have no
problem with humor and subscribe to George Carlin's belief that
anything can be treated with humor. But he also illustrated that with
more serious subjects, using humor requires a much higher degree of
savvy and an intellect that most of us here would posses in joking about
a subject like the present one. I know I don't have that kind of
prowess. Personally, I will look for levity about all this elsewhere.
If others find the humor appropriate, that's not for me to judge. But I
do think we could do without the arguing and personal attacks.
But I'm not playing thread cop. That's not my job.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
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EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Anyway, I'm glad how we/the U.S., for the most part, have handled everything - ride in the backseat, provide guidance/defense/money to Ukraine and the EU and let them do the leading.
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History tells us no one has used one since the two in 1945.
There have been a lot of strategic and punitive measures taken against Russia and people in power from sanctions to getting kicked out of sports bodies.
So what is next? How would Putin and Russia start to gain favor and get these penalties reduced and turned off. i don't see Putin making any concessions.
Maybe the people who prop him up will put pressure on him to change his strategy? Or the hope is they depose him? Hoping the people rise up and somehow win the backing of the military?
or will these things just fade and loosen over time? You would think if Trump were elected, there will be fracturing in NATO and he will reduce these punishments. Then we can see real mayhem in Europe while we sit at home.
Can Putin be trusted to hold to agreements made in some sort of Summit with NATO?
No idea... but the biggest hope would be for the end of power for Putin somehow.
Seems like a really dumb idea to invade Ukraine.
We've always had big Ukee pride in my family due to my grandfather's family. But this movie kickstarted my deeper appreciation and understanding of both the country and my family.
There's a first time for everything.
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Linnnnnduhhhhh (in my Elaine voice, drugged up, with dark sunglasses on)
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Opinion: Five vile things Trump did to Zelensky and Ukraine that you forgot about
With the Russian invasion of Ukraine getting more horrific, Donald Trump and his allies are frantically erasing the truth about Trump’s relations with Ukraine. Trump absurdly claims that as president, he stood strong behind Ukraine and NATO, even as his spinners comically downplay his corrupt and deeply malevolent betrayal of our ally.1. Spread propaganda about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election
As early as 2017, Trump began voicing the conspiracy theory that Ukraine, not Russia, had interfered in the 2016 presidential election. This was one of the things Trump pressured Zelensky to “investigate” while withholding military aid.
It’s complete nonsense, and crucially, it echoed Russian propaganda that had a geopolitical purpose. Putin himself reportedly put this idea in Trump’s head. And Fiona Hill, then a top national security official, testified that this propaganda helped Russia by deflecting attention from Russia’s own interference in 2016 and by dividing the United States from an ally.
2. Ousted the well-regarded U.S. ambassador to Ukraine
Trump pushed out Marie Yovanovitch in 2019, after his lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani mounted a smear campaign against her. Yovanovitch was perceived as disloyal to Trump.
3. Froze military assistance to Ukraine
Well before extorting Zelensky, Trump alarmed officials by freezing military aid to Ukraine that Congress had appropriated, but without meaningful policy justification. Crucially, officials subsequently testified that granting this aid was important in dissuading Russian aggression, which would be in European and U.S. interests.
4. Withheld a White House meeting from Zelensky
In 2019, Trump communicated in various ways to Zelensky that a much-sought-after White House meeting would be conditioned on doing his corrupt dirt-digging on Joe Biden.
5. Turned Ukraine policy over to Giuliani
This was one of the most shocking subplots: Trump repeatedly instructed Zelensky to contact Giuliani to discuss what Zelensky would be required to do to please Trump. Giuliani’s circumvention of national security protocols deeply alarmed officials.
Opinion | Five vile things Trump did to Volodymyr Zelensky and Ukraine that you forgot about - The Washington Post
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