Ed and God

anarchist_grunger

slightofjeff wrote:

I can't decide if you are being totally sarcastic, or if you really didn't know Light Years was about Ed's friend, Diane Muus, who died.

At the risk of missing out on your sarcasm, I'll play along: The song is about good people who die too young, and you miss the chance to say goodbye. And you lament every moment you had to spend with that person, and didn't ("every inch between us becomes light years now")

Ed at Pinkpop 2000: "You have got friends that don't fuck up at all and are great people. And then you just lose them for some reason. They are off the planet and you never had a chance to say goodbye. I only mention this because there was a person we used to know here and that was Diane and ah, we never got a chance to say goodbye. This is goodbye. And if you've got good friends, love them while they're here."

It is relevant to this thread because it sort of hints at an afterlife "and where ever you've gone ..." Like Come Back eight years later, it hints that there is something else after death.

i did not know this stuff, thanks for giving them to me. ok, i was wrong, i admit it:) but chill on that hinting that there is something else after life. if you make an assumption like this i think you should compare it to ed's background

decides2dream

timsinclair wrote:

I certainly dont think Ed has ever written from a Christ-centred perspective. I just think that during the early albums he was open to the possibility of God and searching for him, then after yield, this search ended and he became an atheist. I think Yield, and particularly GTF, was the pinacle of the search and the point where Ed fully considered and then rejected Jesus and the message of the gospel. The only relevant comment Ed seems to have made about GTF is 'its a childrens story' but since his journey has left the Bible behind, it fits that he would regard the gospel story as a childrens story. Atheist friends of mine have sometimes mocked the Bible saying it should stay in sunday school, i.e "we grown ups know better, we know the world is millions of years old and that life evolved by chance". Perhaps this is the sense of his comment.

i think you come at this all from a christ-centered perspective, which of course is understandable...and would also skew your view some. even if ed were 'searching'....there is no reason, truly, to believe he was only thinking of jesus. there ARe other religions, and other religious figures, his focus could've been on. beyond that....i disagree. i don't think ed was anymore 'searching' back then than he is now. in fact, i think quite the opposite. as is common in our youth, i think we feel more like we 'know it all'...and the older we get, the more open we become. i think on the iconoclasts? special ed was on, talking about the doubl-erainbow he saw....he referenced the idea of a god? i personally do not think ed is 100% atheist, more like agnostic. i think he does have a searching mind and soul....but rejects organized religion and all it's devisiveness. there are many, many worldviews out there...that ARE religious...and nothing to do with christianity. as i said in my first post, i think ed takes a much more natural view of the world. perhaps a god, or not. i think he doubts, yet does not entirely discount the posssibility, but none the less......focusing on nature. bottomline, it's all conjecture and inference. only way to know is through ed. we could pick apart numerous lyrics to fit our own, biased interpretations and what we believe....or what we think ed meant....and it still wouldn't prove a thing. personally, i think ed is a lot more open, to everything...and seems far more content, happy and enjoying his life...now more than ever. so whatever his beliefs, they seem to be serving him well. kudos ed. enjoy life!

timsinclair

Anarchist Grunger. You've been a bad boy. Go and sit on the naughty step!!
.....oh do you get supernanny over their?

BLACK FRANK

So does anybody remember when Ed was very reluctant to divulge the actual meaning to his lyrics because he wanted people to make their own conclusions and interpretations about them. Ed never took anybody on a lyrical or spiritual journey people took their own lyrical or spiritual journey's on Ed's lyrics. He put them out their we came up with our own conclusions whatever they might be. Personally I've never seen any religous themes running through his lyrics.

anarchist_grunger

timsinclair wrote:

Anarchist Grunger. You've been a bad boy. Go and sit on the naughty step!!
.....oh do you get supernanny over their?

wooooho, a little bit of sarcasm, i like it yes, i'm a bad boy, and i'll go to hell.

timsinclair

it has just occured to me that the last few post about lightyears illustrate my point about meaning. Of course, we could create our own subjective meanings for the song, but that doesn't change the fact that it has a meaning intended by the author - an expression of loss over a friend who has died. Now that we know this, I doubt anyone (except maybe that cheeky anarchist grunger) will suggest that it means anything different. I think the same is true for all songs, its just that we usually dont have the vital key of the songwriter's circumstances and thought when he wrote the song.

Cosmo

timsinclair wrote:

Intelligent Design

...
Check out 'Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial'
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/
Phillip Johnson is mentioned there.
"Phillip Johnson is known as the father of intelligent design. The idea in its current form appeared in the 1980s, and Johnson adopted and developed it after Darwinian evolution came up short, in his view, in explaining how all organisms, including humans, came into being. Johnson taught law for over 30 years at the University of California at Berkeley and is the author of the book Darwin on Trial, in which he argues that empirical evidence in support of Darwin's theory is lacking."
...
Intelligent Design is NOT science. It is Creationism re-packaged and re-labeled to be sold to us as something it is not.
I really don't mind Creationist beliefs... but, they look like real tools when they try to pass it off as science.

anarchist_grunger

timsinclair wrote:

it has just occured to me that the last few post about lightyears illustrate my point about meaning. Of course, we could create our own subjective meanings for the song, but that doesn't change the fact that it has a meaning intended by the author - an expression of loss over a friend who has died. Now that we know this, I doubt anyone (except maybe that cheeky anarchist grunger) will suggest that it means anything different. I think the same is true for all songs, its just that we usually dont have the vital key of the songwriter's circumstances and thought when he wrote the song.

1. i wasn't aware of that quote from pinkpop. this doesn't imply that ed believes in something after death, it's just your interpretation.
2. you're right, hermeneutics is big business.

CityMouse

timsinclair wrote:

, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus.

you do realize that not everyone is christian, right?

and that religion and spirituality are different things?

timsinclair

I never said that ed or PJ took me on a spiritual journey. It was my own journey and Ed's voice was just one of many that I listened to, but because I was searching for truth and pondering God, Ed's lyrics connected. Others who were grappling with God, or fighting against him were also part of my journey. Layne Staley was a fighter. I think that, like me, he believed in the Biblical God but hated the consequences. he tried to sew his eyes shut (man in a box) but the struggle remained to the bitter end, see 'God Am' on 'Alice in Chains'. Others were more positive, like Mark Lanegan (all of Dust and Whiskey but especially Gospel Plow and Traveller) you might think i'm just inserting my own meaning here too but I have talked with Mark a bit about God and I know that i'm not. Chris Cornell is interesting too, God has always been in the background but came to the foreground on Audioslave's first album, check 'show me how to live' and 'light my way'.

CityMouse

timsinclair wrote:

I know its about death. but the chorus has hope beyond this. 'every inch between us becomes lightyears now' implies that the deceased friend still exists out there somewhere. Furthermore, as I said 'wherever we might go, it dont seem fair' heavily implies a better place. He is saying 'even if you are in a better place, its still not fair. you liked it here and I liked having you around'

you don't know for sure that you're interpretation of the lyrics is what they are intended to mean.

that's what art/music/literature (and the bible) is about- personal interpretation.

Cosmo

timsinclair wrote:

it has just occured to me that the last few post about lightyears illustrate my point about meaning. Of course, we could create our own subjective meanings for the song, but that doesn't change the fact that it has a meaning intended by the author - an expression of loss over a friend who has died. Now that we know this, I doubt anyone (except maybe that cheeky anarchist grunger) will suggest that it means anything different. I think the same is true for all songs, its just that we usually dont have the vital key of the songwriter's circumstances and thought when he wrote the song.

...
And just like the song... many people can have many different interpretations of the Bible, right? So, who's to say which is the correct interpretation?

keithcandyl

timsinclair wrote:

Surely you're better than this name-calling. For the record, I am not Scott Stap, I cant even spell his name. I don't like Creed.

Just for the record, I called you Scott Stapp, not anarchist grunger, but I was inspired by his Creed comment to do so. He's the bad influence but I actually am guilty. I'll go to the step with him. I hope he's still there. I hope he's cute!

By the way, I'm happy to know you're not a Creed fan. What a waste of brain cells. Christian or not, Scott Stapp is a total DB. Yes, I know that's name-callling but to a long list of jackass offenses he added throwing a liquor bottle at his wife's head only a few months after she gave birth to their daughter (yes I am trying to change the subject)!

But still, peace!

anarchist_grunger

keithcandyl wrote:

Just for the record, I called you Scott Stapp, not anarchist grunger, but I was inspired by his Creed comment to do so. He's the bad influence but I actually am guilty. I'll go to the step with him. I hope he's still there. I hope he's cute!

how does eternity in hell sound? ;;)

timsinclair

Did you not read slightofJeff's post. And yes I know that not everyone is a Christian and that religion and spirituality can be different. I just did a degree in the 'study of religions'. I was one of about 3 Christians out of 60.

CityMouse

timsinclair wrote:

Did you not read slightofJeff's post. And yes I know that not everyone is a Christian and that religion and spirituality can be different. I just did a degree in the 'study of religions'. I was one of about 3 Christians out of 60.

no I guess I didn't read slightofjeff's post.

if you realize that not everyone is christian, then why did you say that the "greatest discovery of all" is "being a disciple of jesus"? If you're not christian, that's definitely not going to be your personal "greatest discovery of all."

timsinclair

The person who knows best the correct interpretation of a Biblical passage is its author and I think they would care more than Ed does regarding his lyrics about the way they are misinterpreted. If it can mean anything I like then if I want it to say i'm going to kill you, that's valid. Obviously we cannot consult the actual authors but we can study the language, culture and religion of the ancient Jews who wrote the texts, and this is immensely fruitful in clarifying the numerous errors that have occured from 20 centuries of non-Jewish (mostly anti-jewish) interpretation. For the best scholarship in this area check out http://www.jcstudies.com/ peace.

timsinclair

I guese you could say that's my subjective view but I do not think truth is subjective. The universe only got here one way. Someone made it or it made itself. Whichever it is, this truth is the same for all of us regardless of what we believe.

keithcandyl

anarchist_grunger wrote:

how does eternity in hell sound? ;;)

No, just the step. I'm Christian, remember? Katie Holmes may have given up Jesus for another man, but I won't. Let me know when you're interested in heaven. A know a way to get us off the step and to a better place (see timsinclair, I'm didn't leave my faith at home!).

timsinclair

Oh yes it was you wasn't it. Ill let you off since you owned up plus I hate to think what mischief you two would get up to on that step together.
Threw a bottle at his wife!! thats pretty shocking.