Yeah...I updated my post to include the SoG...please no geography lesson...please no...
You know, first time I heard GTF I was neither into god/jesus or surfing, but I had a strong feeling it was about surfing and the zen of surfing and how when you're out on the water, the power of the ocean and the respect it deserves, wow...Now that I've spent some time on my own surfboard (although not actually surfing), being on the ocean really changes your perspective on things. I really do believe that the song is pretty straight forward about surfing...that and Ed surfing on the roof of the sound booth at the Gorge (2006) when he sang the song...
Someone bitchy at work?- no big deal, I can go surfing when I get home and forget all about you...
Whiny and angry neighbour? Whatever, I can go surfing and forget all about you...
Annoying threads about Ed vs Jesus? Surfing, man! Wax it up!
Yeah...I updated my post to include the SoG...please no geography lesson...please no...
You know, first time I heard GTF I was neither into god/jesus or surfing, but I had a strong feeling it was about surfing and the zen of surfing and how when you're out on the water, the power of the ocean and the respect it deserves, wow...Now that I've spent some time on my own surfboard (although not actually surfing), being on the ocean really changes your perspective on things. I really do believe that the song is pretty straight forward about surfing...that and Ed surfing on the roof of the sound booth at the Gorge (2006) when he sang the song...
Someone bitchy at work?- no big deal, I can go surfing when I get home and forget all about you...
Whiny and angry neighbour? Whatever, I can go surfing and forget all about you...
Annoying threads about Ed vs Jesus? Surfing, man! Wax it up!
Hey, if it works for you ... I just don't know how you reconcile a "straightforward song about surfing" with lyrics about people getting stripped and stabbed.
Maybe you do your surfing in rougher neighborhoods than most people
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
... Stripped and stabbed - falling on the reefs, territorial surfers (they can be mean!). Despite getting knocked about by the tide and the currents, etc, he was still able to stand on the board and surf , even if the strong undertow ripped off his shorts - "Look at me now!" (what? that's never happened to you?)
However, I will not deny that there's a whole whack of spirituality in being on the water...but spirituality does not necessarily have to do with religion.
United Center Chicago: 05.16.06, 05.17.06
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Haha too easy. Also you went to the VH1 Who Show? Holy crap I missed it on TV and I'm kicking myself, was it as amazing as it should have been?
United Center Chicago: 05.16.06, 05.17.06
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Show was awesome..... Ok how about "Because I have faith". Is that better?
Nice, glad I didn't miss it, I'll Tivo it now, glad to hear it rocked, I saw an ad for it in Rolling Stone and I've been really excited for it ever since.
The faith argument is worse! I want proof!
United Center Chicago: 05.16.06, 05.17.06
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Nice, glad I didn't miss it, I'll Tivo it now, glad to hear it rocked, I saw an ad for it in Rolling Stone and I've been really excited for it ever since.
The faith argument is worse! I want proof!
Ok you win. There is no God. On behalf of Organized Religion I would like to apologize for these many centuries of Exaggerated Fairy Tales.
Ok you win. There is no God. On behalf of Organized Religion I would like to apologize for these many centuries of Exaggerated Fairy Tales.
Apology accepted
United Center Chicago: 05.16.06, 05.17.06
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Because there is no way that man and the universe could have come from nothing. We had to have a Creator. I can't imagine going through life thinking there is nothing guiding you. We all have this journey and lessons to learn so that we are ready for the next life. It doesn't make sense that when you die your spirit would just die with your outer shell. There have been people who have set out to prove there is no God and have come back as believers. If you pray you'll see there is a God
Yeah...I updated my post to include the SoG...please no geography lesson...please no...
You know, first time I heard GTF I was neither into god/jesus or surfing, but I had a strong feeling it was about surfing and the zen of surfing and how when you're out on the water, the power of the ocean and the respect it deserves, wow...Now that I've spent some time on my own surfboard (although not actually surfing), being on the ocean really changes your perspective on things. I really do believe that the song is pretty straight forward about surfing...that and Ed surfing on the roof of the sound booth at the Gorge (2006) when he sang the song...
Someone bitchy at work?- no big deal, I can go surfing when I get home and forget all about you...
Whiny and angry neighbour? Whatever, I can go surfing and forget all about you...
Annoying threads about Ed vs Jesus? Surfing, man! Wax it up!
at eight in the morning its foggy and cold
you drag yourself into the ocean and you cant even see the waves through the fog
the still water is like glass
it's a good time to think
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Whether about surfing or not GTF is not a 'straightforward' song, It clearly has more than one theme running through it. Your suggestion that 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed' refers to 'falling on the reefs' seems a bit silly. I could see how reefs could stab you but how would they strip you? even worse how would they strip you first, then stab you? The lyric is clear on this point 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed by faceless MEN!!' I would also like to know how your surfer gives away his 'love that is saved' and wants to share the 'key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere'.
Whether about surfing or not GTF is not a 'straightforward' song, It clearly has more than one theme running through it. Your suggestion that 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed' refers to 'falling on the reefs' seems a bit silly. I could see how reefs could stab you but how would they strip you? even worse how would they strip you first, then stab you? The lyric is clear on this point 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed by faceless MEN!!' I would also like to know how your surfer gives away his 'love that is saved' and wants to share the 'key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere'.
my take on this is that he was stripped of his privacy and stabbed by the violation of that act. those faceless men - the media & others... FUCKERS!!!
not to mention that is where he knows nothing else matters. it comes down to him and the ocean. the ocean is his place of thought, reflection and solitude. surfing as an analogy.
personally i always find myself in the ocean. its like im going home.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Your post about intelligent Design being 'not science' serves to illustrate Philip Johnson's argument. Your statement is based on the popular definition of science that hold that only naturalistic explanations of the world are scientific. If only naturalistic explanations count as science then Darwinism wins by default because it automatically rules out its only rival (creation by an intelligent designer). If this definition of science is true then Einstein, Newton, and pretty much all the great scientists of history are 'not scientists' as they believed that God is the cause of the universe. When naturalism became the dominant philosophy in science, people thought that the cell was little more than a glob of jelly. They had no idea of the staggering complexity that we now observe inside the cell, the DNA molecule, for example has been called 'the most efficient information bearing system in the universe'. It is time design was back on the table, and it is, but the Darwinian establishment is petrified so they just keep telling everyone that ID is 'not science' hoping that this will be enough to stop anyone considering the arguments. Anyone who has read any of the books published by ID scientists (such as prof Behe's Darwin's Black Box) will know that the arguments are scientific ones, not religious ones as is claimed. I know that ID lost in the Dover trial because the Judge claimed that ID is 'not science' but dont let science be defined by a judge. The biggest mistake we can make is to let something be defined by its critics, if you want to make an informed choice read an ID book and judge for yourself. Science should be a search for truth, wherein, when considering an unobservable event like the beggining of life or the universe, all possible explanations are considered. As the great philosopher Alvin Plantinger said after the Dover ruling:
‘If you exclude the supernatural from science, then if the world, or some phenomena within it are supernaturally caused – as most of the worlds people believe – you wont be able to reach that conclusion scientifically. Observing methodological naturalism thus hamstrings science by precluding science from reaching what would be an enormously important truth about the world. It might be that, just as a result of this constraint, even the best science in the long run will wind up with false conclusions.
Because there is no way that man and the universe could have come from nothing. We had to have a Creator. I can't imagine going through life thinking there is nothing guiding you. We all have this journey and lessons to learn so that we are ready for the next life. It doesn't make sense that when you die your spirit would just die with your outer shell. There have been people who have set out to prove there is no God and have come back as believers. If you pray you'll see there is a God
as funny as it gets )
"It was a kind of a sick, disturbed rock opera - if Nietzsche were to write a rock opera,"-Jeff Ament about Eddie's first three songs
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
See that little button marked quote on the bottom right of each post?
Well if you want to reply to someone's post you just hit that button and what they've said will appear and you can write your reply underneath it.
When you submit the post their text will appear with your reply underneath in the same post.
Just in case you're interested.
I'd just like to add, it never even occurred to me until I started coming here that anyone would consider Given to Fly or any of Pearl Jam's music as being about god or Jesus. Perhaps because I have always been aware that Ed is an athiest or maybe because I filter his words through my own belief system, I'm just not buying that these songs are religious or that he stopped being religious because I've never considered that he was in the first place.
If you take from them that they are religious so be it, what works for you works for you, the bottom line is that we'll all have our own interpretation of these songs based on how we view the world. So they mean many different things to many different people.
See that little button marked quote on the bottom right of each post?
Well if you want to reply to someone's post you just hit that button and what they've said will appear and you can write your reply underneath it.
When you submit the post their text will appear with your reply underneath in the same post.
Just in case you're interested.
I'd just like to add, it never even occurred to me until I started coming here that anyone would consider Given to Fly or any of Pearl Jam's music as being about god or Jesus. Perhaps because I have always been aware that Ed is an athiest or maybe because I filter his words through my own belief system, I'm just not buying that these songs are religious or that he stopped being religious because I've never considered that he was in the first place.
If you take from them that they are religious so be it, what works for you works for you, the bottom line is that we'll all have our own interpretation of these songs based on how we view the world. So they mean many different things to many different people.
Oh yeah. I wondered how people did that.
Thanks Jeanie
it has just occured to me that the last few post about lightyears illustrate my point about meaning. Of course, we could create our own subjective meanings for the song, but that doesn't change the fact that it has a meaning intended by the author - an expression of loss over a friend who has died. Now that we know this, I doubt anyone (except maybe that cheeky anarchist grunger) will suggest that it means anything different. I think the same is true for all songs, its just that we usually dont have the vital key of the songwriter's circumstances and thought when he wrote the song.
Wow, I can even quote myself.
I do this in response to the last post about subjective meaning. The other posts around that time are relevant too.
Wow, I can even quote myself.
I do this in response to the last post about subjective meaning. The other posts around that time are relevant too.
I've created a monster!! haha!
I see what you're saying but again it is interpretive.
I can recall a rather large discussion going on here about the song Come Back which was written about the death of someone, but for a lot of people who didn't know the writer's intention, they had come up with very different interpretations. It didn't resonate as a song about death to me until I heard it AFTER someone close to me had died, till then it was about mental connection and a lover coming and going. Now it covers both for me.
Or Animal, there was a really long discussion about what it all meant. Some of us had read that it was about gang rape and others completely disagreed.
It never occurred to me that it was about anything other than gang rape and whilst I've taken on board the interpretations that others have of that song, it will always be about gang rape to me.
So even providing evidence to someone about the writer's intention doesn't set in concrete someone's interpretation. That's the beauty of this music. There is no meaning other than that which you place upon it. And even better, repeatedly Eddie has said that these songs mean different things to different people, it's a re-occurring comment from him. It's like he's saying, "Yeah, I wrote this and it's a part of me but it belongs to you too, to understand as you will."
I see what you're saying but again it is interpretive.
I can recall a rather large discussion going on here about the song Come Back which was written about the death of someone, but for a lot of people who didn't know the writer's intention, they had come up with very different interpretations. It didn't resonate as a song about death to me until I heard it AFTER someone close to me had died, till then it was about mental connection and a lover coming and going. Now it covers both for me.
Or Animal, there was a really long discussion about what it all meant. Some of us had read that it was about gang rape and others completely disagreed.
It never occurred to me that it was about anything other than gang rape and whilst I've taken on board the interpretations that others have of that song, it will always be about gang rape to me.
So even providing evidence to someone about the writer's intention doesn't set in concrete someone's interpretation. That's the beauty of this music. There is no meaning other than that which you place upon it. And even better, repeatedly Eddie has said that these songs mean different things to different people, it's a re-occurring comment from him. It's like he's saying, "Yeah, I wrote this and it's a part of me but it belongs to you too, to understand as you will."
I agree that you can place your own meaning on songs and that most song writers are cool with this unless we decide that it is instructing us to kill someone or something, as has been done with the U2 song exit, as well as Beatles songs. However, I think that the author's intended meaning is still important, and can illuminate the song for us.
Comments
It was written by Mike (musically) ... but I don't see how it could be ABOUT Mike
for the least they could possibly do
You know, first time I heard GTF I was neither into god/jesus or surfing, but I had a strong feeling it was about surfing and the zen of surfing and how when you're out on the water, the power of the ocean and the respect it deserves, wow...Now that I've spent some time on my own surfboard (although not actually surfing), being on the ocean really changes your perspective on things. I really do believe that the song is pretty straight forward about surfing...that and Ed surfing on the roof of the sound booth at the Gorge (2006) when he sang the song...
Someone bitchy at work?- no big deal, I can go surfing when I get home and forget all about you...
Whiny and angry neighbour? Whatever, I can go surfing and forget all about you...
Annoying threads about Ed vs Jesus? Surfing, man! Wax it up!
awww right! i'll get my coat!
Hey, if it works for you ... I just don't know how you reconcile a "straightforward song about surfing" with lyrics about people getting stripped and stabbed.
Maybe you do your surfing in rougher neighborhoods than most people
for the least they could possibly do
However, I will not deny that there's a whole whack of spirituality in being on the water...but spirituality does not necessarily have to do with religion.
I'm imagining some sort of "West Side Story" -- but on surfboards!
for the least they could possibly do
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Ok. I'll play Devils Advocate.
Because the Bible tells them so.
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
You didn't miss anything on TV. It airs tomorrow night.
for the least they could possibly do
Show was awesome..... Ok how about "Because I have faith". Is that better?
The faith argument is worse! I want proof!
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Was it a Who show? Or a George Michael show?
for the least they could possibly do
Ok you win. There is no God. On behalf of Organized Religion I would like to apologize for these many centuries of Exaggerated Fairy Tales.
"Faith, Faith, Faith.... Baby" lol.
Vic Theater Chicago: 08.02.07
Lollapalooza 2007: 08.05.07
Auditorium Theater Chicago (EV Solo): 08.22.08
United Center Chicago: 08.23.09
Because there is no way that man and the universe could have come from nothing. We had to have a Creator. I can't imagine going through life thinking there is nothing guiding you. We all have this journey and lessons to learn so that we are ready for the next life. It doesn't make sense that when you die your spirit would just die with your outer shell. There have been people who have set out to prove there is no God and have come back as believers. If you pray you'll see there is a God
want to be enlightened"
at eight in the morning its foggy and cold
you drag yourself into the ocean and you cant even see the waves through the fog
the still water is like glass
it's a good time to think
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
my take on this is that he was stripped of his privacy and stabbed by the violation of that act. those faceless men - the media & others... FUCKERS!!!
not to mention that is where he knows nothing else matters. it comes down to him and the ocean. the ocean is his place of thought, reflection and solitude. surfing as an analogy.
personally i always find myself in the ocean. its like im going home.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
‘If you exclude the supernatural from science, then if the world, or some phenomena within it are supernaturally caused – as most of the worlds people believe – you wont be able to reach that conclusion scientifically. Observing methodological naturalism thus hamstrings science by precluding science from reaching what would be an enormously important truth about the world. It might be that, just as a result of this constraint, even the best science in the long run will wind up with false conclusions.
What about the key to the locks on the chains he saw everywhere?
as funny as it gets
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
See that little button marked quote on the bottom right of each post?
Well if you want to reply to someone's post you just hit that button and what they've said will appear and you can write your reply underneath it.
When you submit the post their text will appear with your reply underneath in the same post.
Just in case you're interested.
I'd just like to add, it never even occurred to me until I started coming here that anyone would consider Given to Fly or any of Pearl Jam's music as being about god or Jesus. Perhaps because I have always been aware that Ed is an athiest or maybe because I filter his words through my own belief system, I'm just not buying that these songs are religious or that he stopped being religious because I've never considered that he was in the first place.
If you take from them that they are religious so be it, what works for you works for you, the bottom line is that we'll all have our own interpretation of these songs based on how we view the world. So they mean many different things to many different people.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i'll advance anoher conjecture...it's about Plato's "allegory of the cave"
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
Oh yeah. I wondered how people did that.
Thanks Jeanie
Ok Mr Anarchist Grunger. How is it about Plato's allegory of the cave?
You're welcome.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Wow, I can even quote myself.
I do this in response to the last post about subjective meaning. The other posts around that time are relevant too.
I see what you're saying but again it is interpretive.
I can recall a rather large discussion going on here about the song Come Back which was written about the death of someone, but for a lot of people who didn't know the writer's intention, they had come up with very different interpretations. It didn't resonate as a song about death to me until I heard it AFTER someone close to me had died, till then it was about mental connection and a lover coming and going. Now it covers both for me.
Or Animal, there was a really long discussion about what it all meant. Some of us had read that it was about gang rape and others completely disagreed.
It never occurred to me that it was about anything other than gang rape and whilst I've taken on board the interpretations that others have of that song, it will always be about gang rape to me.
So even providing evidence to someone about the writer's intention doesn't set in concrete someone's interpretation. That's the beauty of this music. There is no meaning other than that which you place upon it. And even better, repeatedly Eddie has said that these songs mean different things to different people, it's a re-occurring comment from him. It's like he's saying, "Yeah, I wrote this and it's a part of me but it belongs to you too, to understand as you will."
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I agree that you can place your own meaning on songs and that most song writers are cool with this unless we decide that it is instructing us to kill someone or something, as has been done with the U2 song exit, as well as Beatles songs. However, I think that the author's intended meaning is still important, and can illuminate the song for us.