its been nice talking to you all, would love to reply to all the last posts now but it will have to wait untill tommorow, got an early start in the morning. Goodbye from England. Hope you are all here tommorrow. Peace and goodwill.
Tim
Turns out I cant go to bed yet so you'll have to put up with me for a bit longer.
OK so you wouldn't decribe your distaste for Christian music in quite those terms, you just think its crap (a lot of it is) but you are also not an atheist.The question of God' existence may not be top of everyones list but, philosophically speaking, what question is bigger? Problems between religions exist mainly because their worldviews are incompatible, not because they exagerate the importance of this question. Reality is defined by whether the universe is someones idea or a random explosion. In response to anarchist grunger, I KNOW Ed IS AN ATHEIST NOW, as I keep saying, but i'm glad you brought this quote in now. It shows that Ed's atheism is based on the belief that the earth is as old as evolutionary theory demands. Of course Darwinism rules out the God of the Bible but what if Darwinism is false. It is so engrained in our culture that we absorb it as part of the inherited hardware. The Intelligent Design movement (based in Seattle!!) has, in my view devestated the theory of evolution and the millions of years of earth history that everyone talks about are not facts but beliefs held only because they are necessary for the theory to work. Check http://www.discovery.org/ Really gotta go now. Peace
...Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God'....
Does nobody surf? "Arms wide open with the sea as his floor" refers to SURFING...SURFING...listen to the way the music builds like a wave and then crashes like a wave and the builds like a wave. And what I remember from my religious years, JC was not cruicifed in the water. I believe the sand was his floor...
Forgive me if i'm feeling a little patronised by binfrog's post. Some music might be just about entertainment but I think most would agree that PJ's music, like all good music, is more than this - it is the language of the spirit. If I was reading something in to PJ lyrics that wasn't there, wouldn't I still be doing it? Something fundamental changed around the binaural period, maybe it was Ed jumping on the anti-Bush, anti-evangelical bandwagon...who knows. I did not suggest that Ed was 'religious', just that he was clearly open to the possibility of God, and searching for him up until the binaural period. This is seen in songs like 'sometimes' where Ed is clearly singing to God, saying 'You're God and you've got big hands...seek my part, devote myself etc..' On Yield, Ed seemed to reach the end of this quest with given to fly, which despite Ed's comments playing this down, is clearly about Jesus, 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed...he still stands and he still gives his love, he just gives it away, and the love recieves is the love that is saved etc..' I was listening to one of the recent live albums the other day and during 'faithfull' ed said: 'hats off to belief, belief in something bigger' but when the song finished he felt the need to retract this, saying: 'I said "belief in something bigger, I dont know about that, how about faith that it will all work out"' The songs seem to take Ed back to where he was in the Yield period, but when they are over he is left in the Godless world he has chosen for himself. It's not that i've lost a friend, more that a friend has become lost.
Ed jumping on the anti-Bush, anti-evangelical bandwagon...
Are you serious?
"I feel the same way about disco as I do about herpes." - Dr. Hunter S. Thompson, 1977
Does nobody surf? "Arms wide open with the sea as his floor" refers to SURFING...SURFING...listen to the way the music builds like a wave and then crashes like a wave and the builds like a wave. And what I remember from my religious years, JC was not cruicifed in the water. I believe the sand was his floor...
i agree.
A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw
Delivered him wings, "Hey, look at him now"
given to fly isnt about God. its about finding your own wings and what sets you free.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Turns out I cant go to bed yet so you'll have to put up with me for a bit longer.
OK so you wouldn't decribe your distaste for Christian music in quite those terms, you just think its crap (a lot of it is) but you are also not an atheist.The question of God' existence may not be top of everyones list but, philosophically speaking, what question is bigger? Problems between religions exist mainly because their worldviews are incompatible, not because they exagerate the importance of this question. Reality is defined by whether the universe is someones idea or a random explosion. In response to anarchist grunger, I KNOW Ed IS AN ATHEIST NOW, as I keep saying, but i'm glad you brought this quote in now. It shows that Ed's atheism is based on the belief that the earth is as old as evolutionary theory demands. Of course Darwinism rules out the God of the Bible but what if Darwinism is false. It is so engrained in our culture that we absorb it as part of the inherited hardware. The Intelligent Design movement (based in Seattle!!) has, in my view devestated the theory of evolution and the millions of years of earth history that everyone talks about are not facts but beliefs held only because they are necessary for the theory to work. Check http://www.discovery.org/ Really gotta go now. Peace
how do you know ed's atheism isnt based on the realistion that the myth of God is personally unsustainable for him. that he has tried but it makes no sense to him and that he cant reconcile all he sees around him and what he feels within himself, with any god, let alone a christian god.
please explain to me exactly how intelligent design movement has devastated the theory of evolution.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
timsinclair, i can respect what you are saying in a way and religion has gotten a bad name because of radicals and fundamentalists, but like some have said, just enjoy the music and i wouldn't be too concerned about what the songs mean to ed, you could be wrong, you could be right, but whats important is what they mean to you. . .you don't have to agree with everything he is saying to enjoy it
i have wished for so long, how i wish for you today
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
i respect what you are saying....do not take it personal, because ed does not take it personal if you believe in God. i reach this conclusion because he hangs out with people who do believe in God.
i am not sure how they select their opening bands....but if ed had anything against people who believe in God, he would have selected a different band to open the florida shows with.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
Turns out I cant go to bed yet so you'll have to put up with me for a bit longer.
OK so you wouldn't decribe your distaste for Christian music in quite those terms, you just think its crap (a lot of it is) but you are also not an atheist.The question of God' existence may not be top of everyones list but, philosophically speaking, what question is bigger? Problems between religions exist mainly because their worldviews are incompatible, not because they exagerate the importance of this question. Reality is defined by whether the universe is someones idea or a random explosion. In response to anarchist grunger, I KNOW Ed IS AN ATHEIST NOW, as I keep saying, but i'm glad you brought this quote in now. It shows that Ed's atheism is based on the belief that the earth is as old as evolutionary theory demands. Of course Darwinism rules out the God of the Bible but what if Darwinism is false. It is so engrained in our culture that we absorb it as part of the inherited hardware. The Intelligent Design movement (based in Seattle!!) has, in my view devestated the theory of evolution and the millions of years of earth history that everyone talks about are not facts but beliefs held only because they are necessary for the theory to work. Check http://www.discovery.org/ Really gotta go now. Peace
This thread really sucked me in, I am mostly impressed by the dialogue I read without any major rants which unfortunately I see mostly when it comes to tough subjects. Noted, many of the posts coming from newer members seemed more disheartened about Ed than those that have a thousand posts....I find that interesting on its own. A generation gap?
So my feeling is this, as a long time fan but mostly someone who does pay attention to the message....and Pearl Jam is a message, no question: It isn't just lyrical, it is soul and spirit, and I can't judge it well, because I am really just another dumb human being, just being me. But, what I think is that Ed is not an aethiest in the sense of total disbelief of something bigger than himself. Too many thoughts and references I have seen/heard to think he is without a clue on the subject. He is just very undecided on the subject as to what/who the source is for all THIS.
A question is sometimes more meaningful than an answer. If you tell me you KNOW God then the lines are drawn. Cultural and religious thought are hardwired in most of us to mean something, and once you are sure, all the assumptions begin about who you are and what your message means. You get pigeonholed.
Right or wrong, Pearl Jam has not IMHO stated the answer, only the questions, and it is worth considering. My feeling and thought is that if you believe in God and Jesus, what does that look like? Can it be different than the preconceptions that are laid on us? Is it possible that religion has been corrupted by human beings to the point we don't even see the source any longer?
I am rambling a bit I know, but to the starter of this thread I don't see what you see because I never decided they had to have a message I agreed with. Not a criticsm of you at all, just understand that what you seek is clarity being delivered from a band called Pearl Jam, and that is far too high an expectation of them.
Jesus' message was total chaos in his time to the standing system of thought. Keeping in mind that it was the Jewish religion that he contridicted in many ways, yet they were apparently the ones who Jesus was given too and created for just because God loved them and then the rest of us (Gentiles). Maybe the point I am trying to make is that we human (even the most religious) can get it wrong so be careful what men you follow in your pursuit of clarity, and sometimes it takes an outsider to illustrate the colors are not just black and white.
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
I was listening to one of the recent live albums the other day and during 'faithfull' ed said: 'hats off to belief, belief in something bigger' but when the song finished he felt the need to retract this, saying: 'I said "belief in something bigger, I dont know about that, how about faith that it will all work out"'
Sorry dude..."Faith in Something Bigger" is a Who song (he said the same thing in Live at the Garden)...and he is a Who fan...
It's interesting, isn't it? Never in a million years would I feel that someone's music, such as christian/gospel rock, "grates against my soul." And yes, I have listened to it. (My grandma is the biggest catholic I've ever met. A person could be a murderer, but if they're catholic...they're okay in her book..scary. She listens to it often.) I choose not to listen to it on my own or go to a concert because..quite frankly..it's awful. And not even the lyrics (which do hold zero depth for me) but the actual instrumental playing. Just my opinion.
To YOU, the most important issue is existence or non-existence of god...but that is not the most important issue in my life AT ALL, pretty big, but not HUGE, not optimum.
I listen to a lot of reggae music and god is mentioned and praise in a lot of songs, it doesn't bother me at all (what's a soul anyway?). But, I started listening to pearl jam because of their music and lyrics (and so much more ) and I agree with many of their views, not just Ed's. If they were to change into a christian rock band, I'm not sure they would be able to work this out themselves. I'm not sure the rest of pearl jam would agree with overtly chirstian lyrics and references to the bible and whatnot. Pearl Jam would not longer be the same band for me.
Yes, exactly. To me the question of whether there is a god or not is not a big one. Perhaps it's better to say I just don't care what you or anyone else believes. It doesn't bother me, I'm not saying I'm right and I'm not saying you're wrong. I've done my own "soul searching" and came to a conclusion, a truth. Just like you. People telling me I'm lost, that I'm missing out on the truth and the greatest beauty... I don't need that.
It's interesting how so many religions have a special place for non-believers, a place of endless, horrible torture... I know this what you believe, timsinclair, but I don't.
I think if you die, it's done. Nothing more. No awareness, no activity, nothing.
I agree with what Vedderfan10 and Cate said, given to fly is about surfing and finding your own way, being yourself regardless of what others might think.
how do you know ed's atheism isnt based on the realistion that the myth of God is personally unsustainable for him. that he has tried but it makes no sense to him and that he cant reconcile all he sees around him and what he feels within himself, with any god, let alone a christian god.
please explain to me exactly how intelligent design movement has devastated the theory of evolution.
I think the soul has gone and I suggest that this is because the atheistic worldview has no hope, and strangles the spirit.
What is a soul? Or the soul?
Why do you think the atheist worldview has no hope? I think it offers different people different things. Some atheists will be full of hope, some will be cynical bastards. The only thing these people have in common is a lack of belief. Atheists have very different outlooks on life.
What does Christianity offer me, though? A yes, hell. And of course, then I've got a special day to look forward to; the last judgement, I will be able to feel physical pain too!
Hello Mr faded glory
No we dont have to agree, but the existence, or non-existence of God is a little more important than which flavor ice cream you favor dont you think?
Sure is, but it's still a matter of personal choice. Your sentiments of sadness because someone has not seen the light is a little patronizing.
You may be right about some change of mind around the binaural years, but I still think Ed's lyrics can take on spiritual journeys if you let them speak and don't demand just confirmation of what you already believe.
... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
Wow. At last someone who has felt the change, even if you are not a Christian. You are right when you say that they have lost the vision for 'perfect beuty'. Most of the last album seemed to be just half hearted rock and left wing politics, a far cry from the souring heights of hail hail or GTF. I think the soul has gone and I suggest that this is because the atheistic worldview has no hope, and strangles the spirit. Your post is hugely refreshing, you do make sense.
hmm interesting. i believe i have a soul and i am an atheist. therefore i guess you could say (and feel free to cause i certainly do) my spirit is not strangled by my atheistic worldview, as you put it. my spirit will only be strangled by a loss of hope and that loss of hope will occur only when i die.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
maybe the guy is a bit confused, he thinks this is a forum dedicated to Creed )
hmm... I assumed timsinclair was Scott Stapp's alias.
timsinclair, While I too consider myself a born again Christian, and I appreciate that you grieve to see someone who now appears to have his back squarely turned against God, I have to wonder if starting this conversation here would be something edifying to Ed if he were reading this right now. I'm not sure this would make him feel inclined to draw nearer to a relationship with Christ via this thread. And given the nature of this forum you must realize you are more tossing you pearls before the swine than witnessing to the masses. This isn't a Billy Graham crusade forum. The gospel is offensive enough without carrying it out somewhere that it is sure to be crucified as it were. PMs are more appropriate if you feel like you have found someone who you can talk to. Remember, Jesus went to temples to preach and to homes that he was invited to. He did spend time with the lost but they were always curious about him in the first place. He never shoved his way into a house uninvited except in the case of Zaccheus, but Z was climbing trees to see him so it was obvious to Jesus that going to his house would be a pleasure to the little squirt.
So do pray for Ed and the world, but pray in your closet please and maybe not here so much.
And if there's something you'd like to do. Oh, just let me continue to blame you.
hmm... I assumed timsinclair was Scott Stapp's alias.
timsinclair, While I too consider myself a born again Christian, and I appreciate that you grieve to see someone who now appears to have his back squarely turned against God, I have to wonder if starting this conversation here would be something edifying to Ed if he were reading this right now. I'm not sure this would make him feel inclined to draw nearer to a relationship with Christ via this thread. And given the nature of this forum you must realize you are more tossing you pearls before the swine than witnessing to the masses. This isn't a Billy Graham crusade forum. The gospel is offensive enough without carrying it out somewhere that it is sure to be crucified as it were. PMs are more appropriate if you feel like you have found someone who you can talk to. Remember, Jesus went to temples to preach and to homes that he was invited to. He did spend time with the lost but they were always curious about him in the first place. He never shoved his way into a house uninvited except in the case of Zaccheus, but Z was climbing trees to see him so it was obvious to Jesus that going to his house would be a pleasure to the little squirt.
So do pray for Ed and the world, but pray in your closet please and maybe not here so much.
great post
"It was a kind of a sick, disturbed rock opera - if Nietzsche were to write a rock opera,"-Jeff Ament about Eddie's first three songs
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
Quite possibly the music of late is a response to world events since yield.all art is a response to something.i too was , for a while , turned off by what seemed to me to be be overtly political overtones in the later records.however on further review it is just music after all.these are 5(6) human beings expressing themselves ways that are healthy , not just for them but for others.i believe we're going to see some stuff soon that gets back to a more personal kind of lyrics.after he wrote into the wild , he said as much.personally i don't care to be made to feel dictated too about anything.ESPECIALLY poltics and religion. to the starter of this thread i would say that in any religion what passes as the word of god has been filtered through a human being and a fallible one at that, to whatever end they choose.a relationship with a diety is supposed to be personal , you and that diety, my opinion is that the supreme whatever tailors its message to the audience its addressing.i think we all respond to information differently.part of our make up.i can hear the same info ten different ways but only connect with one.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Hello Mr faded glory
No we dont have to agree, but the existence, or non-existence of God is a little more important than which flavor ice cream you favor dont you think?
Ha. Actually no Tim, I don't, because I'm agnostic and there are thousands of things that I find more important than religion, unless of course you would have me consider the possibility that world peace could in fact exist without religion - at that point I would elevate it accordingly.
My point is that my wife in fact does believe in God but our beliefs and opinions are our own and are completely and utterly subjective, so what would be the point in allowing anything to come between us? There is absolutely no point in feeling animosity toward each other or anyone else simply because their beliefs and opinions differ from your own - dig?
I am appalled by your post. I see no reason why atheists and believers should not respectfully converse in this forum. Nobody has to be invited to discuss anything here, Pearl Jam fans are free to talk to eachother about anything we like, even if we disagree. I have not broken into anyones house uninvited, this forum is as much mine as it is anyone elses, I started this thread and anyone is welcome, if you dont like it find something else to amuse yourself with. If you want to keep your faith in box at home that up to you - oh and anarchist grunger, isnt it a little bit hypocritical of you to endorse keithcandy's post? If you dont think this thread should be here, why are you using it, plus he called you a swine (indirectly) peace.
No I dont dig! I have not expressed any animosity towards Ed or PJ, just sadness. From your point of view, people can hold whatever belifs they like and it doesn't really matter. But if you took the Bible seriously, as I do, then you would want to 'share the key to the locks on the chains' that you see everywhere. For this reason, it is always sad when someone rejects the only key that can free them and decides that they are not chained. If your wife is a believer, I expect she is sad that you are not going to the same place, think about it next time you sing along to Hail Hail 'are we going to the same place? so can I come?' peace.
sounds like you have a kind of 'wishful universalism' wherein all roads lead to God. I know this is an attractive option, but it makes God rather schizophrenic. How could he tell one nation that it is the ultimate sin to worship more than one God but also appear to another culture through a pantheon of warring nature based deities. What kind of God would this be?
Is "the only key that can set us free" the belief in god? And I mean the christian god...not any of those other many many gods people believe in. Wait..will they be prisoners as well because they dont believe in your god?
Does nobody surf? "Arms wide open with the sea as his floor" refers to SURFING...SURFING...listen to the way the music builds like a wave and then crashes like a wave and the builds like a wave. And what I remember from my religious years, JC was not cruicifed in the water. I believe the sand was his floor...
Just to play devil's advocate here .... there is a rather famous story of Christ walking on water ... if you wanted to read GTF as a Christ-like allegory, this bit certainly would bolster your argument.
I'm not saying it is or it isn't (actually, I tend to lean toward "isn't") ... but at the same time, the parallels between GTF and the Christ story are striking.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
tim that would be the one who created freewill in the firstplace.All "word" gets sifted by the perception of the one it was given to.then further diluted by word of mouth.and we're talking about belief here.which as you're orginal post said can change by the fact of your conversion-rebirth?
all comes back to choice and the freedom to change my beliefs.as experience would dictate
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I am appalled by your post. I see no reason why atheists and believers should not respectfully converse in this forum. Nobody has to be invited to discuss anything here, Pearl Jam fans are free to talk to eachother about anything we like, even if we disagree. I have not broken into anyones house uninvited, this forum is as much mine as it is anyone elses, I started this thread and anyone is welcome, if you dont like it find something else to amuse yourself with. If you want to keep your faith in box at home that up to you - oh and anarchist grunger, isnt it a little bit hypocritical of you to endorse keithcandy's post? If you dont think this thread should be here, why are you using it, plus he called you a swine (indirectly) peace.
But you haven't answered my question. Is this forum and your posts and numerous rebuttals and appallations going to attract Eddie Vedder to Christ?
And I did today put my faith outside of the box into a forum of tens of thousands of pearl jam fans.
If we are free to talk respectfully, even if we disagree, why are you appalled?
And if there's something you'd like to do. Oh, just let me continue to blame you.
But you haven't answered my question. Is this forum and your posts and numerous rebuttals and appallations going to attract Eddie Vedder to Christ?
Not to talk for the guy, but I don't think he's done anything wrong here. Based upon my understanding of Christianity, Christians are not only permitted but obligated to stand up for what they believe in.
It appears that is what the original poster is doing here.
Agree or disagree with him, he means no harm, and he is causing no harm.h
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Not to talk for the guy, but I don't think he's done anything wrong here. Based upon my understanding of Christianity, Christians are not only permitted but obligated to stand up for what they believe in.
It appears that is what the original poster is doing here.
Agree or disagree with him, he means no harm, and he is causing no harm.h
I know he means no harm, but this fellow has brought EV out into a public forum to talk about his state of grace. How would it make you feel if a bunch of people were sitting around all day on a forum talking about how you're not a Christian? Would that incline you to accept Christ? That's my only point.
I don't mean any harm either and we are obligated to give a reason for what we believe, but we are also specifically called to temper our message with gentleness and respect. I feel like Eddie is being made a spectacle of to some extent and I would guess (and I could definately be wrong) that he might feel like this is getting way up into his business.
And if there's something you'd like to do. Oh, just let me continue to blame you.
Thanks slightofJeff. I appreciate the support.
To Keithcandyl. If you really want me to answer ths question, I have no idea if this thread will 'attract Ed to Christ', I think this may be asking a little much. I hope that nothing I have said would turn him further away, but even if it does, thats not my fault if I have been honest and respectful. Anyway that wasn't my motive in starting this thread, I jast wanted to speak about how my relationship with the bands music has changed and my thoughts about why. What appalled me was that you thought I had no right to do this. Peace brother.
Comments
love that! awesome.
Tim
OK so you wouldn't decribe your distaste for Christian music in quite those terms, you just think its crap (a lot of it is) but you are also not an atheist.The question of God' existence may not be top of everyones list but, philosophically speaking, what question is bigger? Problems between religions exist mainly because their worldviews are incompatible, not because they exagerate the importance of this question. Reality is defined by whether the universe is someones idea or a random explosion. In response to anarchist grunger, I KNOW Ed IS AN ATHEIST NOW, as I keep saying, but i'm glad you brought this quote in now. It shows that Ed's atheism is based on the belief that the earth is as old as evolutionary theory demands. Of course Darwinism rules out the God of the Bible but what if Darwinism is false. It is so engrained in our culture that we absorb it as part of the inherited hardware. The Intelligent Design movement (based in Seattle!!) has, in my view devestated the theory of evolution and the millions of years of earth history that everyone talks about are not facts but beliefs held only because they are necessary for the theory to work. Check http://www.discovery.org/ Really gotta go now. Peace
Does nobody surf? "Arms wide open with the sea as his floor" refers to SURFING...SURFING...listen to the way the music builds like a wave and then crashes like a wave and the builds like a wave. And what I remember from my religious years, JC was not cruicifed in the water. I believe the sand was his floor...
Ed jumping on the anti-Bush, anti-evangelical bandwagon...
Are you serious?
i agree.
A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw
Delivered him wings, "Hey, look at him now"
given to fly isnt about God. its about finding your own wings and what sets you free.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
how do you know ed's atheism isnt based on the realistion that the myth of God is personally unsustainable for him. that he has tried but it makes no sense to him and that he cant reconcile all he sees around him and what he feels within himself, with any god, let alone a christian god.
please explain to me exactly how intelligent design movement has devastated the theory of evolution.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
JEFFREY ROSS ROGERS 1975-2002
9.10.98 NYC / 8.23.00 JONES BEACH /4.30.03 UNIONDALE / 7.9.03 NYC /5.12.06 ALBANY/ 6.1.06 E.RUTHEFORD/ 6.3.06 E. RUTHEFORD/ CAMDEN 6.19.08/ NYC 6.24.08/ NYC 6.25.08/ HARTFORD 6.27.08/ CHICAGO 8.24.09/ PHILLY 10.31.09/ HARTFORD 5.15.10/ NEWARK 5.18.10/ NYC 5.20.10/ CHICAGO 7.19.13/ BROOKLYN 10.18.13/ BROOKLYN 10.19.13/ HARTFORD 10.25.13/ NYC 9.26.15/ 4.8.16 FT. LAUDERDALE/ 4.9.16 MIAMI / 5.1.16 NYC/ 5.2.16 NYC / 8.5.16 BOSTON / 8.7.16 BOSTON/ 8.20.18 CHICAGO/ 9.2.18 BOSTON/ 9.4.18 BOSTON/ 9.18.21 ASBURY PARK
finally, FUCK TICKETMASTER
i am not sure how they select their opening bands....but if ed had anything against people who believe in God, he would have selected a different band to open the florida shows with.
This thread really sucked me in, I am mostly impressed by the dialogue I read without any major rants which unfortunately I see mostly when it comes to tough subjects. Noted, many of the posts coming from newer members seemed more disheartened about Ed than those that have a thousand posts....I find that interesting on its own. A generation gap?
So my feeling is this, as a long time fan but mostly someone who does pay attention to the message....and Pearl Jam is a message, no question: It isn't just lyrical, it is soul and spirit, and I can't judge it well, because I am really just another dumb human being, just being me. But, what I think is that Ed is not an aethiest in the sense of total disbelief of something bigger than himself. Too many thoughts and references I have seen/heard to think he is without a clue on the subject. He is just very undecided on the subject as to what/who the source is for all THIS.
A question is sometimes more meaningful than an answer. If you tell me you KNOW God then the lines are drawn. Cultural and religious thought are hardwired in most of us to mean something, and once you are sure, all the assumptions begin about who you are and what your message means. You get pigeonholed.
Right or wrong, Pearl Jam has not IMHO stated the answer, only the questions, and it is worth considering. My feeling and thought is that if you believe in God and Jesus, what does that look like? Can it be different than the preconceptions that are laid on us? Is it possible that religion has been corrupted by human beings to the point we don't even see the source any longer?
I am rambling a bit I know, but to the starter of this thread I don't see what you see because I never decided they had to have a message I agreed with. Not a criticsm of you at all, just understand that what you seek is clarity being delivered from a band called Pearl Jam, and that is far too high an expectation of them.
Jesus' message was total chaos in his time to the standing system of thought. Keeping in mind that it was the Jewish religion that he contridicted in many ways, yet they were apparently the ones who Jesus was given too and created for just because God loved them and then the rest of us (Gentiles). Maybe the point I am trying to make is that we human (even the most religious) can get it wrong so be careful what men you follow in your pursuit of clarity, and sometimes it takes an outsider to illustrate the colors are not just black and white.
Sorry dude..."Faith in Something Bigger" is a Who song (he said the same thing in Live at the Garden)...and he is a Who fan...
I listen to a lot of reggae music and god is mentioned and praise in a lot of songs, it doesn't bother me at all (what's a soul anyway?). But, I started listening to pearl jam because of their music and lyrics (and so much more
Yes, exactly. To me the question of whether there is a god or not is not a big one. Perhaps it's better to say I just don't care what you or anyone else believes. It doesn't bother me, I'm not saying I'm right and I'm not saying you're wrong. I've done my own "soul searching" and came to a conclusion, a truth. Just like you. People telling me I'm lost, that I'm missing out on the truth and the greatest beauty... I don't need that.
It's interesting how so many religions have a special place for non-believers, a place of endless, horrible torture... I know this what you believe, timsinclair, but I don't.
I think if you die, it's done. Nothing more. No awareness, no activity, nothing.
I agree with what Vedderfan10 and Cate said, given to fly is about surfing
And I agree with Cate again
naděje umírá poslední
What is a soul? Or the soul?
Why do you think the atheist worldview has no hope? I think it offers different people different things. Some atheists will be full of hope, some will be cynical bastards. The only thing these people have in common is a lack of belief. Atheists have very different outlooks on life.
What does Christianity offer me, though? A yes, hell. And of course, then I've got a special day to look forward to; the last judgement, I will be able to feel physical pain too!
Do you think atheists cannot be good people?
naděje umírá poslední
Sure is, but it's still a matter of personal choice. Your sentiments of sadness because someone has not seen the light is a little patronizing.
You may be right about some change of mind around the binaural years, but I still think Ed's lyrics can take on spiritual journeys if you let them speak and don't demand just confirmation of what you already believe.
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
hmm interesting. i believe i have a soul and i am an atheist. therefore i guess you could say (and feel free to cause i certainly do) my spirit is not strangled by my atheistic worldview, as you put it. my spirit will only be strangled by a loss of hope and that loss of hope will occur only when i die.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
hmm... I assumed timsinclair was Scott Stapp's alias.
timsinclair, While I too consider myself a born again Christian, and I appreciate that you grieve to see someone who now appears to have his back squarely turned against God, I have to wonder if starting this conversation here would be something edifying to Ed if he were reading this right now. I'm not sure this would make him feel inclined to draw nearer to a relationship with Christ via this thread. And given the nature of this forum you must realize you are more tossing you pearls before the swine than witnessing to the masses. This isn't a Billy Graham crusade forum. The gospel is offensive enough without carrying it out somewhere that it is sure to be crucified as it were. PMs are more appropriate if you feel like you have found someone who you can talk to. Remember, Jesus went to temples to preach and to homes that he was invited to. He did spend time with the lost but they were always curious about him in the first place. He never shoved his way into a house uninvited except in the case of Zaccheus, but Z was climbing trees to see him so it was obvious to Jesus that going to his house would be a pleasure to the little squirt.
So do pray for Ed and the world, but pray in your closet please and maybe not here so much.
EV Chi 1, 08/21/08
EV Memphis, 06/20/09
great post
I've had enough, said enough, felt enough, I'm fine now.
Push me pull me. See ya later
<present tense inhabiter #0003 & Even Flow psycho #0036>
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
My point is that my wife in fact does believe in God but our beliefs and opinions are our own and are completely and utterly subjective, so what would be the point in allowing anything to come between us? There is absolutely no point in feeling animosity toward each other or anyone else simply because their beliefs and opinions differ from your own - dig?
Just to play devil's advocate here .... there is a rather famous story of Christ walking on water ... if you wanted to read GTF as a Christ-like allegory, this bit certainly would bolster your argument.
I'm not saying it is or it isn't (actually, I tend to lean toward "isn't") ... but at the same time, the parallels between GTF and the Christ story are striking.
for the least they could possibly do
all comes back to choice and the freedom to change my beliefs.as experience would dictate
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But you haven't answered my question. Is this forum and your posts and numerous rebuttals and appallations going to attract Eddie Vedder to Christ?
And I did today put my faith outside of the box into a forum of tens of thousands of pearl jam fans.
If we are free to talk respectfully, even if we disagree, why are you appalled?
EV Chi 1, 08/21/08
EV Memphis, 06/20/09
Not to talk for the guy, but I don't think he's done anything wrong here. Based upon my understanding of Christianity, Christians are not only permitted but obligated to stand up for what they believe in.
It appears that is what the original poster is doing here.
Agree or disagree with him, he means no harm, and he is causing no harm.h
for the least they could possibly do
I know he means no harm, but this fellow has brought EV out into a public forum to talk about his state of grace. How would it make you feel if a bunch of people were sitting around all day on a forum talking about how you're not a Christian? Would that incline you to accept Christ? That's my only point.
I don't mean any harm either and we are obligated to give a reason for what we believe, but we are also specifically called to temper our message with gentleness and respect. I feel like Eddie is being made a spectacle of to some extent and I would guess (and I could definately be wrong) that he might feel like this is getting way up into his business.
EV Chi 1, 08/21/08
EV Memphis, 06/20/09
To Keithcandyl. If you really want me to answer ths question, I have no idea if this thread will 'attract Ed to Christ', I think this may be asking a little much. I hope that nothing I have said would turn him further away, but even if it does, thats not my fault if I have been honest and respectful. Anyway that wasn't my motive in starting this thread, I jast wanted to speak about how my relationship with the bands music has changed and my thoughts about why. What appalled me was that you thought I had no right to do this. Peace brother.