Ed and God

timsinclair

In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?

Byrnzie

timsinclair wrote:

In my own spiritual journey Ed has been a constant voice, a co-searcher of truth. I used to be amazed how new albums seemed to reflect my own searchings. But now we are adrift, worlds apart. From Ten to Yield, Ed's lyrics beat a genuine, honest, and real, path to God. After the metaphysical groping of vitalogy and no code,Yield's affirmation of faith and heavy allusions to the crucifixion of Jesus in Given to fly, made it the the soundtrack to my own recent submission to God. However, although remnants remained on Binaural, it soon became clear that Ed had seen the truth, counted the cost, and turned back. Now I am dismayed by the anti-Christian videos on tenclubs activism page and the 'God is a delusion' messages in Ed's lyrics. I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like I've lost a friend, am I the only one who feels this way?

Ermm...yep. You don't need to be 'a disciple of Jesus' to be on a spiritual journey.

Stone Irons

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=292766

BinFrog

Enjoy the music. Ed is not and has never been religious...you are reading thoughts and motives into his lyrics that are not there. It doesn't matter. Go on a musical journey with the band, and go on your own spiritual journey however you see fit. You don't need some sort of religious affirmation from a rock band.

cookies

This is why Pearl Jam is such a great band. For your life you needed to find or become closer to your beliefs. And PJ does that for you, in thier tunes you always have a choice and you decide what is best for you. And you should not feel like you lost a friend, you might want to look at it as if a friend help you see things different. And that is what friendship is about, helping someone. And you don't have to have the same beliefs to do that. I know for myself that I am so greatful that I found them and saying thank you can never be enough for what they have given and shown me. They have made me a better person in so many ways.

timsinclair

Forgive me if i'm feeling a little patronised by binfrog's post. Some music might be just about entertainment but I think most would agree that PJ's music, like all good music, is more than this - it is the language of the spirit. If I was reading something in to PJ lyrics that wasn't there, wouldn't I still be doing it? Something fundamental changed around the binaural period, maybe it was Ed jumping on the anti-Bush, anti-evangelical bandwagon...who knows. I did not suggest that Ed was 'religious', just that he was clearly open to the possibility of God, and searching for him up until the binaural period. This is seen in songs like 'sometimes' where Ed is clearly singing to God, saying 'You're God and you've got big hands...seek my part, devote myself etc..' On Yield, Ed seemed to reach the end of this quest with given to fly, which despite Ed's comments playing this down, is clearly about Jesus, 'first he was stripped, then he was stabbed...he still stands and he still gives his love, he just gives it away, and the love recieves is the love that is saved etc..' I was listening to one of the recent live albums the other day and during 'faithfull' ed said: 'hats off to belief, belief in something bigger' but when the song finished he felt the need to retract this, saying: 'I said "belief in something bigger, I dont know about that, how about faith that it will all work out"' The songs seem to take Ed back to where he was in the Yield period, but when they are over he is left in the Godless world he has chosen for himself. It's not that i've lost a friend, more that a friend has become lost.

Hinny

The words have always been written in ways that make them open to interpretation. Even where the protagonist in the song, any song, makes one point or another, there's nothing to say that this was how Ed felt about something- it could just as well be a character who happens to feel that way.

Any meaning you derive from any text is a combination of the thoughts you bring into it and what the text explicitly states. This is true for everything, including PJ lyrics.

You say GTF is 'clearly' about Jesus. I'd say this is far from clear- to me, it's just a guy who's particularly defiant and wants to make good.

Interesting that you feel patronised by binfrog's post, yet you're happy with referring to Ed as a friend who has become lost. Is this because his worldview is different? Are you suggesting that to feel any other way about spirituality is to become lost?

InJuddsTree

I like Pearl Jam

DeLukin

BinFrog wrote:

Enjoy the music. Ed is not and has never been religious...you are reading thoughts and motives into his lyrics that are not there. It doesn't matter. Go on a musical journey with the band, and go on your own spiritual journey however you see fit. You don't need some sort of religious affirmation from a rock band.

Well said. I disagree with a lot of Ed's views on religion and politics, but I appreciate the dialog. Hearing a dissenting view will either affirm what you believe or make you question it - either way that can't be a bad thing, IMHO.

bernmodi

If only people were more at peace with their own soul (or spirituality or whatever you may call it), they wouldn't be so much concerned about others.

BinFrog

InJuddsTree wrote:

I like Pearl Jam

Hah, nice. I usually respond with "I like stuff" at times like this.


To the original poster who feels patronized by my original response: All I can tell you is that I've seen your kind of post a ton of times before and I never know how to respond. Part of me knows I should just back away slowly, but I inevitably feel the need to respond occasionally.

I just feel like sometimes people look at a few lines or a few words and they 'just know' the lyrics must be about faith or god. "You're god and you've got big hands" may have the word "god" in it, but that doesn't imply the potental for belief in god. "We're faithful" does not imply faith. Heck, look at the trailing section of Faithful:

"M.y.t.h. Belief in the game of controls that keeps us in our box of fear, we never listen to the voice inside so drowned out."

and in Sometimes, sure you have the line "You're god and you've got big hands", but what about the followup later on: "Sometimes I reach to myself, dear God". That seems like a far cry from devotion.

Look, I am all about reading whatever you can into lyrics. I am sure a lot of PJ songs mean something to me, but if I actually knew what Ed/etc meant when he wrote the lyrics I'd be WAY off. I know this will sound a little hypocritical, but I think you too should read whatever you want into the lyrics. I just think there is a difference between open interpretation, and looking for some sort of affirmation that Ed/etc may or may not have some sort of belief in god. You're calling him potentially lost. I think he's about as far from lost as anyone I've ever read lyrics/interviews/thoughts from.

I think if you are a religious person, you might want to just enjoy Pearl Jam for the music, and get your religious spiritual journey on another plane. Pearl Jam, TO ME, is spiritual. But they are not religious...at all.

http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Eddie_Vedder

I'm trying to keep my response away from dwelling on the negative, but when you say:

"I feel gutted that ed did not come along for the ride, he's missed the greatest discovery of all - Life as a disciple of Jesus."

...I feel the need to respond with my own thoughts. Why does Ed's belief or non-belief leave you feeling gutted? That is why I bring up you needing to figure out your religion/beliefs on your own. "I am lost, I'm no guide". It's ok that Ed des not believe in god or Jesus as the son of god. If you do, all the more power to you. Do you like PJ's music? Then enjoy it. Don't worry about Ed missing the Jesus Boat. It's ok.

I did not mean to be patronizing. That's never my intention w/ threads like this.

Sizzla

ever listened to God´s dice?

timsinclair

Hi, thanks for your responses.
I disagree with Hinny that meaning is found in the thoughts we bring to the songs, sure we can insert our own meaning when words are used in a highly abstract manner but I think true meaning is found in the author's intent. This is a debate we have in Biblical interpretation, but if you buy into such reader-response theory, you can make text mean just about anything you like. Songwriters are often happy for people to insert their own meaning except when it is interpreted in a dangerous way (like someone did with the U2 song exit by claiming that it instructed them to kill someone). When you get to know a person, either personally or by study, you get insights into their thought and this often reveals the true intent of their writings, and thus the real meaning. From all the early interviews, and songs, I dont think I am way off the mark in saying that Ed used to be open to the idea of the God of the Bible. Of course, he had doubts too, and these were included in his lyrics, as Binfrog correctly observes, but something did change during the Binaural period. Yes I have read Jeff's 'God's dice', which I think shows that they were reading about relativity and quantum physics at that point. In response to the Godless implications of quantum theory, Einstein famously said 'God does not play dice', perhaps this is a clue to their rejection of God during this period.

Collin

timsinclair wrote:

Hi, thanks for your responses.
I disagree with Hinny that meaning is found in the thoughts we bring to the songs, sure we can insert our own meaning when words are used in a highly abstract manner but I think true meaning is found in the author's intent. This is a debate we have in Biblical interpretation, but if you buy into such reader-response theory, you can make text mean just about anything you like. Songwriters are often happy for people to insert their own meaning except when it is interpreted in a dangerous way (like someone did with the U2 song exit by claiming that it instructed them to kill someone). When you get to know a person, either personally or by study, you get insights into their thought and this often reveals the true intent of their writings, and thus the real meaning. From all the early interviews, and songs, I dont think I am way off the mark in saying that Ed used to be open to the idea of the God of the Bible. Of course, he had doubts too, and these were included in his lyrics, as Binfrog correctly observes, but something did change during the Binaural period. Yes I have read Jeff's 'God's dice', which I think shows that they were reading about relativity and quantum physics at that point. In response to the Godless implications of quantum theory, Einstein famously said 'God does not play dice', perhaps this is a clue to their rejection of God during this period.

Read the link posted above.

I don't have much to add.

decides2dream

BinFrog wrote:

Enjoy the music. Ed is not and has never been religious...you are reading thoughts and motives into his lyrics that are not there. It doesn't matter. Go on a musical journey with the band, and go on your own spiritual journey however you see fit. You don't need some sort of religious affirmation from a rock band.

excellent post.


i think ed may well be spiritual, but more from a nature-inspired perspective. most definitely NOT 'relgious' and especially not for organized religion. yes, i CAN see how those who are religious may well see a lot of religion in some lyrics, but absolutely...it is what YOU infer, and not the intent....b/c ed most definitely speaks out against religion, and his disbelief, etc. spirituality can take many, many forms......


nature has it's own religon, gospel from the land........:)

MrFadedGlory

My wife thinks that chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla. I feel sorry for her, she is obviously lost. It is sad. We still have awesome sex and our children are growing up surrounded by love, but their mother is obviously dillusional and it saddens me deeply. Our connection will never be quite the same since discovering this I'm afraid - we should agree on everything shouldn't we?

timsinclair

Just to clarify again,
I am NOT saying Ed is 'religious'.
Ed is currently an evolutionist and an atheist, as he has made abundantly clear in recent years in both interviews and songs. I am someone who has listened to PJ intently from the very beggining, what I AM saying is that Ed only settled on Atheism during the Binaural period. Before this things were very different, our souls connected because we were both searching for God. After this, I accepted the gospel message that Jesus died for us, and ed rejected it. In response to Hinny, yes! I am saying that without Jesus, all are lost - not because I am cleverer or better than anyone else but because Jesus said that this is the case and I believe him. Peace.

timsinclair

Hello Mr faded glory
No we dont have to agree, but the existence, or non-existence of God is a little more important than which flavor ice cream you favor dont you think?

Collin

timsinclair wrote:

Just to clarify again,
I am NOT saying Ed is 'religious'.
Ed is currently an evolutionist and an atheist, as he has made abundantly clear in recent years in both interviews and songs. I am someone who has listened to PJ intently from the very beggining, what I AM saying is that Ed only settled on Atheism during the Binaural period. Before this things were very different, our souls connected because we were both searching for God. After this, I accepted the gospel message that Jesus died for us, and ed rejected it. In response to Hinny, yes! I am saying that without Jesus, all are lost - not because I am cleverer or better than anyone else but because Jesus said that this is the case and I believe him. Peace.

http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Eddie_Vedder

Read it. It's fairly simple, it has quotes by Vedder from way before Binaural.

I completely disagree with you, you could be right, but I don't think Ed was looking for god and definitely not that god from the bible.

And I also think it's condescending to say people are lost if they disagree with you.

jimlives

It's nice that you found meaning in ed/etc.'s lyrics that were beneficial to you, at some point on your quest for god. I think that's what's great about literature (in all forms). The truth is, we don't know what, in particualr, Ed was thinking when he wrote certain songs. We do know from interviews that he doesn't believe in god and we've known that way before bianural. Do we know that he wasn't still searching for god in the midst of his disbelief? no, we don't. Do we know that he was writing certain "god-searching" songs from his own perspective, everytime? again, no. I think we try to make sense out of things that don't apply or make sense to us. question is, what else could those songs be about if not about god? because, think about all of those people who find meaning in, say GTF, but don't think its about god. Ultimately, If there is only one thing I can say that PJ and Ed has taught me, it is to be empathetic and to put yourself in another's frame of mind and forget your own for a moment.

I also agree that it is condescending to say that anyone in general and Ed in particular, is lost if they/he haven't joined you and other believers on your ride. I think that might be exactly what he despises the most about religion.

GarrettSocling

timsinclair wrote:

Hello Mr faded glory
No we dont have to agree, but the existence, or non-existence of God is a little more important than which flavor ice cream you favor dont you think?

I think you're seeing the trees and missing the forest when it comes to Mr. Faded Glory's amazingly apt point.