so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I’m just applying logic to the scenario. You’re going down the literal path. If someone put a gun to my head to do something, I technically have a choice. But do I really? Logically? Again. Let’s just agree to disagree
Society has lots of situations in which people are given incentives to engage or not to engage in specific behaviors, or in which rewards are withheld from people who refuse to engage in specific behaviors. That is different than forcing someone to do something.
Many of the people who chose to receive the vaccine rather than lose their jobs did so because they were less concerned about risk of bodily harm than they were about making a political point, and they decided that making this particular political point wasn't worth losing their job.
Some people who were so offended at being faced with this choice by their employers are the same ones who will blithely tell working people who try to push for improved working conditions to quit their jobs and find another one if they're so unhappy.
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
i did that here on the past..
Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015. Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022 EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I’m just applying logic to the scenario. You’re going down the literal path. If someone put a gun to my head to do something, I technically have a choice. But do I really? Logically? Again. Let’s just agree to disagree
so we agree it's a choice. maybe you think it's a shitty choice, but yeah, that's subjective.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I’m just applying logic to the scenario. You’re going down the literal path. If someone put a gun to my head to do something, I technically have a choice. But do I really? Logically? Again. Let’s just agree to disagree
so we agree it's a choice. maybe you think it's a shitty choice, but yeah, that's subjective.
Telling a single mother with 3 kids who lives paycheck to paycheck to get the vaccine or lose their job/ career? Yea. I guess we agree that’s a “choice”. I don’t think it’s subjective to call that a shitty choice. I really don’t consider that a choice. It’s ridiculous to think a person in that situation actually has an option. That’s as close to forced as it gets.
And just remember I’m coming from a pro vaccine stance. I got the shot without hesitation and would do it again. I distanced, wore masks all day at work. Physically threw people out of my store when they didn’t follow government mandated guidelines…
The creation of the vaccines was great. I have taken it and, anecdotally, I think it kept me clear of covid in the early days (2021 September seeing PJ at Sea Hear Now) and reduced the impact of my two covid infections (particularly the last one, which was probably not a top-20 terrible illness in my life). But who knows? Covid behaves so erratically that maybe that's just how things happened for no reason whatsoever.
That Sea Hear Now festival had a vaccine requirement. Is that OK? I guess. You don't necessarily have a right to go to a concert. I'll never be able to prove that my flight, concert attendance, etc. did not result in my getting covid because of the vaccination but that was pre-variant and I think the vaccine did help stop the spread at that time. Now? Not so much. And while hindsight is 2020, it seems pretty damn shameful that employers would require an experimental vaccine provided by historically corrupt companies in order to keep employment. I'm not a big "just get another job" guy when workplaces are toxic and/or hostile and forcing a vaccine is about as toxic as it gets. And in hindsight, did all that jabbing make a big difference, anyway? Hard to say, but I tend to think no.
I'm vaccinated and I don't regret it. But we should all regret the way it thrust upon us.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I don't think people understand what it takes to get a vaccine/med out to the public. Experimental were the people who were in the trials. Once released to the public, it had already passed those trials with varying degrees of success, as we saw with the initial first 3(?) options that were provided.
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
I don't think people understand what it takes to get a vaccine/med out to the public. Experimental were the people who were in the trials. Once released to the public, it had already passed those trials with varying degrees of success, as we saw with the initial first 3(?) options that were provided.
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
That last paragraph is pure gold. Couldn’t agree more.
so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I’m just applying logic to the scenario. You’re going down the literal path. If someone put a gun to my head to do something, I technically have a choice. But do I really? Logically? Again. Let’s just agree to disagree
so we agree it's a choice. maybe you think it's a shitty choice, but yeah, that's subjective.
Telling a single mother with 3 kids who lives paycheck to paycheck to get the vaccine or lose their job/ career? Yea. I guess we agree that’s a “choice”. I don’t think it’s subjective to call that a shitty choice. I really don’t consider that a choice. It’s ridiculous to think a person in that situation actually has an option. That’s as close to forced as it gets.
And just remember I’m coming from a pro vaccine stance. I got the shot without hesitation and would do it again. I distanced, wore masks all day at work. Physically threw people out of my store when they didn’t follow government mandated guidelines…
as you said, I was just being literal about it. It was a choice.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
I don't think people understand what it takes to get a vaccine/med out to the public. Experimental were the people who were in the trials. Once released to the public, it had already passed those trials with varying degrees of success, as we saw with the initial first 3(?) options that were provided.
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
And the other part of this is that the COVID-19 genome was sequenced in December 2019 and made public in January 2020. Work was already starting on an mRNA vaccine as early as January 13, 2020-- before most people were even aware there was a novel virus. By the time the trials were underway in summer, the vaccine was already very refined. Incidentally, I volunteered to participate in one of those trials in the summer of 2020 but was turned away because they already had too many people signed up. And bear in mind that this means that they had so many volunteers that they were able to have enough people in all of the various demographics of age, sex, race, etc., to populate both control groups receiving placebos as well as groups that would be receiving the vaccine being tested.
And even if it were true that the vaccines were rushed in 2020, it's 2024 now and we have more real-world data about this vaccine than any vaccine in history. Tens of billions of doses have been administered to people all around the world with no statistically significant detrimental effects having presented themselves.
I don't think people understand what it takes to get a vaccine/med out to the public. Experimental were the people who were in the trials. Once released to the public, it had already passed those trials with varying degrees of success, as we saw with the initial first 3(?) options that were provided.
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
And the other part of this is that the COVID-19 genome was sequenced in December 2019 and made public in January 2020. Work was already starting on an mRNA vaccine as early as January 13, 2020-- before most people were even aware there was a novel virus. By the time the trials were underway in summer, the vaccine was already very refined. Incidentally, I volunteered to participate in one of those trials in the summer of 2020 but was turned away because they already had too many people signed up. And bear in mind that this means that they had so many volunteers that they were able to have enough people in all of the various demographics of age, sex, race, etc., to populate both control groups receiving placebos as well as groups that would be receiving the vaccine being tested.
And even if it were true that the vaccines were rushed in 2020, it's 2024 now and we have more real-world data about this vaccine than any vaccine in history. Tens of billions of doses have been administered to people all around the world with no statistically significant detrimental effects having presented themselves.
I don't think people understand what it takes to get a vaccine/med out to the public. Experimental were the people who were in the trials. Once released to the public, it had already passed those trials with varying degrees of success, as we saw with the initial first 3(?) options that were provided.
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
And the other part of this is that the COVID-19 genome was sequenced in December 2019 and made public in January 2020. Work was already starting on an mRNA vaccine as early as January 13, 2020-- before most people were even aware there was a novel virus. By the time the trials were underway in summer, the vaccine was already very refined. Incidentally, I volunteered to participate in one of those trials in the summer of 2020 but was turned away because they already had too many people signed up. And bear in mind that this means that they had so many volunteers that they were able to have enough people in all of the various demographics of age, sex, race, etc., to populate both control groups receiving placebos as well as groups that would be receiving the vaccine being tested.
And even if it were true that the vaccines were rushed in 2020, it's 2024 now and we have more real-world data about this vaccine than any vaccine in history. Tens of billions of doses have been administered to people all around the world with no statistically significant detrimental effects having presented themselves.
You don’t get Laverne & Shirley? 24/7?
Perhaps this makes me a schlemiel or a schlemazel, but I don't get either of these references...
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
i did that here on the past..
link?
Link to what??..to my personal experience??..
Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015. Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022 EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
i did that here on the past..
link?
Link to what??..to my personal experience??..
You said you specified your personal experience here before...he's asking for a link to that post
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I disagree too. You are forcing someone to do something, most people are not in a position to just give up their job. Holding that over them and saying it's a choice, isn't a choice. It's like robbing someone at gunpoint and saying they had a choice to get shot or give me their wallet. Was it really a choice?
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
i did that here on the past..
link?
Link to what??..to my personal experience??..
You said you specified your personal experience here before...he's asking for a link to that post
I really am dying to see his evidence that someone killed in a car accident has COVID listed as a cause of death on the death certificate. (And when he shows me that evidence and I die, presumably my death certificate will say that COVID caused my death. It's a vicious circle.)
so when given the CHOICE to get the vax or lose your job, you made the CHOICE to keep your job/lose your job.
how is that not a CHOICE.
I disagree too. You are forcing someone to do something, most people are not in a position to just give up their job. Holding that over them and saying it's a choice, isn't a choice. It's like robbing someone at gunpoint and saying they had a choice to get shot or give me their wallet. Was it really a choice?
It's a complicated situation, but in a pandemic, the greater public health outweighs your objection because you could potentially cause the deaths of others so the employer has an obligation to protect it's workforce, and customers in many instances. I think I recall the OSHA general duty clause get referenced a lot during that time.
I mean, this was all hashed out adnauseum for months, but my vague recollection is that many were allowed not to vax, but then they had to submit daily/weekly negative test results and pass screenings. Others in high exposure risk professions (health care, first responders, etc.) may not have had that same option so their "choice" by many was considered more coercive. Again though, public health was the concern.
But did the world have two years or even one year to do trials? Once the virus started to move through our cities specially here in NY the death toll was staggering!
It was treatment protocols set by Fauci that did more harm to people than the actual virus. Also death tolls were so inflated that if someone died in a car accident but was Covid positive, that death went on the books as a Covid death.
Again, none of this is true.
You are wrong..i know from personal experience how they listed many of deaths as from COVID when it was it from that..
Please specify your personal experience in support of this claim.
i did that here on the past..
link?
Link to what??..to my personal experience??..
You said you specified your personal experience here before...he's asking for a link to that post
I really am dying to see his evidence that someone killed in a car accident has COVID listed as a cause of death on the death certificate. (And when he shows me that evidence and I die, presumably my death certificate will say that COVID caused my death. It's a vicious circle.)
"(S)He didn't of covid; (s)he died with covid" was bordering on cliché a few years ago. Against all evidence and common sense, they really wanted to believe that it was just a cold.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
how is that not a CHOICE.
-EV 8/14/93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
SHOW COUNT: (164) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=108, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=4, Australia=5
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Many of the people who chose to receive the vaccine rather than lose their jobs did so because they were less concerned about risk of bodily harm than they were about making a political point, and they decided that making this particular political point wasn't worth losing their job.
Some people who were so offended at being faced with this choice by their employers are the same ones who will blithely tell working people who try to push for improved working conditions to quit their jobs and find another one if they're so unhappy.
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
-EV 8/14/93
That Sea Hear Now festival had a vaccine requirement. Is that OK? I guess. You don't necessarily have a right to go to a concert. I'll never be able to prove that my flight, concert attendance, etc. did not result in my getting covid because of the vaccination but that was pre-variant and I think the vaccine did help stop the spread at that time. Now? Not so much. And while hindsight is 2020, it seems pretty damn shameful that employers would require an experimental vaccine provided by historically corrupt companies in order to keep employment. I'm not a big "just get another job" guy when workplaces are toxic and/or hostile and forcing a vaccine is about as toxic as it gets. And in hindsight, did all that jabbing make a big difference, anyway? Hard to say, but I tend to think no.
I'm vaccinated and I don't regret it. But we should all regret the way it thrust upon us.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
How much research has anyone on here who seems to think this vaccine was any less vetted done on every other vaccine you have taken in your life or said ok to for your children? I am not anti-vaxx, but I am vax hesitant and I still saw the extreme pros of this to help protect those in our world who are immuno compromised. I have that luxury as a fairly healthy person who doesn't have pre-existing condition. We can rag on big pharma all day because they have earned it, but in this case, I think what was researched and done to get a viable vaccine to the masses in that amount of time was nothing short of a miracle. It's ok to still hate big pharma, but not for what was done in the early stages of Covid. Unfortunately, a lot of of the couch scientists that lived through Covid, probably won't make it through another pandemic. Maybe that's for the best though. Freedom of choice, freedom of speech, freedom to die.
-EV 8/14/93
And even if it were true that the vaccines were rushed in 2020, it's 2024 now and we have more real-world data about this vaccine than any vaccine in history. Tens of billions of doses have been administered to people all around the world with no statistically significant detrimental effects having presented themselves.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
I mean, this was all hashed out adnauseum for months, but my vague recollection is that many were allowed not to vax, but then they had to submit daily/weekly negative test results and pass screenings. Others in high exposure risk professions (health care, first responders, etc.) may not have had that same option so their "choice" by many was considered more coercive. Again though, public health was the concern.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©