I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
Congratulations! Hang on in there, I'm pretty fresh to this and the first week was a looooong week, every day had about 48 hours. But it gets easier if you try and do it right...
I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
Congratulations! Hang on in there, I'm pretty fresh to this and the first week was a looooong week, every day had about 48 hours. But it gets easier if you try and do it right...
Thanks. It does feel like time is just interminable and the prospect of no drinking is just ever present on my mind.
The hardest part is confronting the things in my life that I have always ran from with my drinking. When i started it was like I can't deal with life, so I'll drink when I need relief. It was like I was commiting temporary suicide through alcohol.
And circumstances have changed so much for the better that there is nothing left to run from but myself, but that can still be a scary proposition. When i needed an exit I always found one in the drink... which is why my episodes i believe are so destructive in nature because they were born from darkness.
but now, I feel like I'm in a room with no doors and when I don't like the room I'm not sure what to do.
Thanks. It does feel like time is just interminable and the prospect of no drinking is just ever present on my mind.
The hardest part is confronting the things in my life that I have always ran from with my drinking. When i started it was like I can't deal with life, so I'll drink when I need relief. It was like I was commiting temporary suicide through alcohol.
And circumstances have changed so much for the better that there is nothing left to run from but myself, but that can still be a scary proposition. When i needed an exit I always found one in the drink... which is why my episodes i believe are so destructive in nature because they were born from darkness.
but now, I feel like I'm in a room with no doors and when I don't like the room I'm not sure what to do.
I've been an atheist all my life, always struggled with the idea of anything more important than me in the world, but I can honestly say that when I was in a room with no doors I said a prayer hoping something or someone out there would hear it and it made me feel better. Or I contacted another alcoholic and spoke to them. It helps.
Love lift us all in recovery process.
It is a life long journey, for certain.
25 years now and I still show the signs
of a dry abuser.
What does one do when we have a crash?
We get back up, stand even taller.
Forgive ourselves for placing our own
self-worth in jeopardy
And then.....
Ask ourselves quietly, in care,
"how could I have been more loving?"
the answer we will find will come to us
in the
silence of the wind,
a knock at the door,
or even a kettle brewing on a stove.
The Higher Power is Reigning
Divine Love
keeping in mind that every step we take; every transformation, even every breath, is a process in progress.
I love you
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
good luck man. that's a tough age to do it at, but you're not alone on that count. i was 23-24 when i first cleaned up, after being a drinker since high school. i did it for a lot of the reasons you describe... it was a way to escape things i didn't want to face, even when things were pretty good in my life. i also ended up hurting friends through it, which is why i stopped.
that said, i'm not sober anymore. thus why i say it's a tough age to deal with addiction at... very easy to forget why you got there or stop caring about whether you stay there or not. i'm in the latter camp... i found that after 4 years i was still unhappy and still refusing to face things. that's more becos of me and my failings than AA or anything though. i never gave the program as much effort as it seemed to require and eventually just drifted away. i've seen many people find peace in AA/sobriety and become very happy with what they got from it. hopefully you can be one of them, but i didn't find what i was looking for there and now i'm back where i started.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,895
I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
Hey , If somewhere along the line you feel it can't be done alone ,give AA a try. If you do decide to go to a meeting , may I suggest go with an open mind?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Can I put forward a topic which may be related to the previous pages, as a point of discussion, please?
Given that we have active and former AA regulars speaking here and we are speaking about if it is possible to apply the program outside of AA. It relates to trying to help, not to arguing ( !)
I met a client who started telling me about how stressed she is and how she is having a difficult time personally and is at the point of stomach cramps. She's not a problem drinker, but i thought about the 4th step. I told her to make a couple of lists and and explained to her that it's sometimes necessary to take inventory and reassess your reactions to problems. You can't solve the problems themselves but you can find peace of mind in your reactions to them.
It's a bastardised version of our fourth step and I felt good about helping at the time. However, I wonder if I may have done more harm than good in the end as I gave her a tool with no manual and no back up. I'm sure that it is possible to apply the AA steps to our lives and to reach out to non-AAs with them but I wonder if it is always appropriate? I think that since I've been comfortable with AA I want to share the peace of mind I have found - but it's difficult to relate it to other people without the background of the program.
When I did the fourth step, I immediately started to be come angry because I was not staying in one column. I called my sponsor, and eventhough I wasn't writing in the next column, my mind was going there. It was at that time that I realised the fourth step is only valuable, in my experience, if I continue the steps. Otherwise, it is just more clutter up in my head to sort through and possibly drink over. As for helping a non-alcoholic, I would do the same as you. Perhaps, I would check up on her though.
Can I put forward a topic which may be related to the previous pages, as a point of discussion, please?
Given that we have active and former AA regulars speaking here and we are speaking about if it is possible to apply the program outside of AA. It relates to trying to help, not to arguing ( !)
I met a client who started telling me about how stressed she is and how she is having a difficult time personally and is at the point of stomach cramps. She's not a problem drinker, but i thought about the 4th step. I told her to make a couple of lists and and explained to her that it's sometimes necessary to take inventory and reassess your reactions to problems. You can't solve the problems themselves but you can find peace of mind in your reactions to them.
It's a bastardised version of our fourth step and I felt good about helping at the time. However, I wonder if I may have done more harm than good in the end as I gave her a tool with no manual and no back up. I'm sure that it is possible to apply the AA steps to our lives and to reach out to non-AAs with them but I wonder if it is always appropriate? I think that since I've been comfortable with AA I want to share the peace of mind I have found - but it's difficult to relate it to other people without the background of the program.
When I did the fourth step, I immediately started to be come angry because I was not staying in one column. I called my sponsor, and eventhough I wasn't writing in the next column, my mind was going there. It was at that time that I realised the fourth step is only valuable, in my experience, if I continue the steps. Otherwise, it is just more clutter up in my head to sort through and possibly drink over. As for helping a non-alcoholic, I would do the same as you. Perhaps, I would check up on her though.
Thanks, I have been having the same thing with my lists... writing the first column and my mind is wandering to the others.
To be honest, I've started to think of the twelve steps as a circle, as I feel like you are never really going to finish any step. A step is something you use to get to the next level then you are done with it but the steps here aren't that way. I've got a sponsor now and I'm doing step one with him. I took step 3 out loud with my wife last night and need to do it again and again. And I'm slowly working on my step 4 lists. I guess I don't feel like I'll ever "finish" one step, you just change your opinion to them and review them as your understanding changes. I'm cool with that though - easy does it.
Thanks, I have been having the same thing with my lists... writing the first column and my mind is wandering to the others.
To be honest, I've started to think of the twelve steps as a circle, as I feel like you are never really going to finish any step. A step is something you use to get to the next level then you are done with it but the steps here aren't that way. I've got a sponsor now and I'm doing step one with him. I took step 3 out loud with my wife last night and need to do it again and again. And I'm slowly working on my step 4 lists. I guess I don't feel like I'll ever "finish" one step, you just change your opinion to them and review them as your understanding changes. I'm cool with that though - easy does it.[/quote]
Something that helped me with step three was that all I needed to do was make a "decision" to turn it over. The work comes later. I was really complicating that step as I thought that I couldn't give up my will at an instant. It doesn't suggest to do that in my interpretation. I really like the word "decision" in that step. Otherwise, it would be something like -- We turned our will over... Now that was how I was interpreting it at first. I hope this helps.
I've been finding myself relying on my higher power much more lately. Stress with the home, school and work has got my head spinning. I am so thankful that I was introduced to the steps. I now have a choice to drink or not. Fortunately I haven't picked up yet. Hopefully I'll adjust.
I am not in 12 Steps, but I decided this past Sunday after 6 years of abuse from 2003-2009 that I need to end my relationship with alcohol. I was never a daily drinker but I am a dangerous & destructive binge Drinker who for a long time figured i could control the demon by just drinking beer, just drinking alone, or "JUST" about anything. I was wrong. It seems periodically every 6 months or so I would always have a self destructive night - so bad that i don't even want to openly discuss.
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
good luck man. that's a tough age to do it at, but you're not alone on that count. i was 23-24 when i first cleaned up, after being a drinker since high school. i did it for a lot of the reasons you describe... it was a way to escape things i didn't want to face, even when things were pretty good in my life. i also ended up hurting friends through it, which is why i stopped.
that said, i'm not sober anymore. thus why i say it's a tough age to deal with addiction at... very easy to forget why you got there or stop caring about whether you stay there or not. i'm in the latter camp... i found that after 4 years i was still unhappy and still refusing to face things. that's more becos of me and my failings than AA or anything though. i never gave the program as much effort as it seemed to require and eventually just drifted away. i've seen many people find peace in AA/sobriety and become very happy with what they got from it. hopefully you can be one of them, but i didn't find what i was looking for there and now i'm back where i started.
Well you are 100% right about it being a tough age to do it at. All my closest friends drink and just last night I went out for dinner with three of them, one of whom was one of the people I screwed over on Saturday night.
They all were saying I'm punishing myself too much... and i explained that i'm not viewing this is a punishment. After dinner we went to a wine bar and after intense prodding I agree to taste some wine the way you might offer it to a 10 year old - as I hated being the total drag and i don't believe in absolute's anyway... just like how I read someone earlier in this thread say if you fall down on the way to the store, you don't go back home and start the trip over. I don't count it as a slip, rather it was playing in traffic and coming out unharmed.
The rest of the night I nursed a diet coke. I was surrounded by peer pressure and alcohol from 7 pm to 11:15 and I didn't crack and actually by the end of the night my friends who had been prodding me were patting me on the back, as if congrats: you fell on the sword for one night and thats admirable but you'll be back in action by the weekend right?... lol
My best friend is actually very unhappy that I am aking this measure and I truly understand why. We have had some amazing times that have centered around drinking, and I am not against alcohol - but it is very hard for people my age to understand that my drinking comes from a dark place and leads to a dark place because I think most of them are party drinkers who properly use alcohol to enhance pleasure while I on the other hand use it to kill pain.
I think I finally made them understand by comparing it to being prescribed pain medication for a surgery, but after you are all better now you still have the pain killer addiction. It was necessary, but now its a detriment. Thats sort of like my relationship to alcohol.
I used it as self medication to get me through a time when my life was totally fucked up, and you know I'm not sure I could have done it without alcohol. I was in survival mode and the drink helped me to survive.
but now my life isn't fucked up anymore and I don't want to just survive, I want to live... alcohol returns me to the escapist/survival mindset. So while I'm not prepared to say I will never drink again, I do need a prolonged period of dryness to get my head in the right place and my life heading in the direction I want it to be heading, rather than just getting by day to day.
Well you are 100% right about it being a tough age to do it at. All my closest friends drink and just last night I went out for dinner with three of them, one of whom was one of the people I screwed over on Saturday night.
It may seem like a "hard age" but what age isn't? I think that age is irrelevant, drinkers have a knack of finding other drinkers, no matter how old they are. It's not like we get to 28 and one day we are suddenly surrounded by a sober crowd and we are the only ones staggering about.
Well you are 100% right about it being a tough age to do it at. All my closest friends drink and just last night I went out for dinner with three of them, one of whom was one of the people I screwed over on Saturday night.
It may seem like a "hard age" but what age isn't? I think that age is irrelevant, drinkers have a knack of finding other drinkers, no matter how old they are. It's not like we get to 28 and one day we are suddenly surrounded by a sober crowd and we are the only ones staggering about.
no, you get to 28 and you're not surrounded by any crowd becos all your friends are married to wives that won't let them drink like you all used to, so it's easier when your friends' activities are pot luck dinners instead of epic bar crawls
Well you are 100% right about it being a tough age to do it at. All my closest friends drink and just last night I went out for dinner with three of them, one of whom was one of the people I screwed over on Saturday night.
It may seem like a "hard age" but what age isn't? I think that age is irrelevant, drinkers have a knack of finding other drinkers, no matter how old they are. It's not like we get to 28 and one day we are suddenly surrounded by a sober crowd and we are the only ones staggering about.
no, you get to 28 and you're not surrounded by any crowd becos all your friends are married to wives that won't let them drink like you all used to, so it's easier when your friends' activities are pot luck dinners instead of epic bar crawls
I guess there is something in what you say but I still think that someone with an alcohol problem will always find a reason to drink and people to drink with. If not, we drink alone.
Having said that, to agree with your main point, I drunk right through my twenties because "everyone else is". I'm not saying it was the right thing to do though!
So, when it comes to 'tough ages', I can only speak from my own experience of how hard it is to stop. But I can't imagine that it is any easier or more difficult for the young guy whose friends drink or the old geezer who has been drinking for 40 years, or a woman or a man, black or white, intelligent or not so blessed - everyone in AA is equal in my eyes and I can't image that my own struggle is any more or less real than anyone elses. Age is really unimportant if you have had enough, it comes down to something more fundamental once you start stopping.
I guess there is something in what you say but I still think that someone with an alcohol problem will always find a reason to drink and people to drink with. If not, we drink alone.
Having said that, to agree with your main point, I drunk right through my twenties because "everyone else is". I'm not saying it was the right thing to do though!
So, when it comes to 'tough ages', I can only speak from my own experience of how hard it is to stop. But I can't imagine that it is any easier or more difficult for the young guy whose friends drink or the old geezer who has been drinking for 40 years, or a woman or a man, black or white, intelligent or not so blessed - everyone in AA is equal in my eyes and I can't image that my own struggle is any more or less real than anyone elses. Age is really unimportant if you have had enough, it comes down to something more fundamental once you start stopping.
yeah, i was half joking. i think it's hard regardless, it's just hard for different reasons at different ages. in your 20s, almost all social life revolved around bars and drinking. i didn't make many friends in law school becos i didn't go to the bars (knew i couldn't trust myself) and thus missed out on the prime bonding opportunities the whole way through. before that, i lost almost all my friends when i quit drinking. most of them were coworkers in a restaurant and once i didn't go out to party, i was left. even older, more serious friends saw less of me becos we were doing different things most of the time.
of course, when you're older there are challenges too. it becomes ingrained into your life and habits in a way that it never could in my scattershot, ever-shifting life. you have a lot more tied to it becos you've spent years building a life around it. i think there's a bigger hole to fill in your life if you quit later, but i think the situational pressure to drink is greater when you quit young.
to me, that was a huge value of AA, finding young people in the same boat.
I support you. It always used to amaze me when I was your age, how everytime I would try to abstain from substance abuse, the Temptress would be standing there, always offering up a free ride into hell.
Think of your recovery as a journey and always keep your heart and mind open. Sometimes it is very difficult to always view life through rose colored glasses, but it can be done.
Emotional growth stops at the beginning of our usage, but like everything, we recover through our processes.
I don't think that everything magically disappears upon the choices we make. But the choice you are taking is a long term solution as opposed to a quik fix.
4 is a magical number. It represents earth, wind, fire, water as well as north, west, east and south. God Bless You from all direction....
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
I guess there is something in what you say but I still think that someone with an alcohol problem will always find a reason to drink and people to drink with. If not, we drink alone.
Having said that, to agree with your main point, I drunk right through my twenties because "everyone else is". I'm not saying it was the right thing to do though!
So, when it comes to 'tough ages', I can only speak from my own experience of how hard it is to stop. But I can't imagine that it is any easier or more difficult for the young guy whose friends drink or the old geezer who has been drinking for 40 years, or a woman or a man, black or white, intelligent or not so blessed - everyone in AA is equal in my eyes and I can't image that my own struggle is any more or less real than anyone elses. Age is really unimportant if you have had enough, it comes down to something more fundamental once you start stopping.[/quote]
I think that you are totally right in one sense.
But on the other hand being 25 and single my biggest concern about becoming a non-drinker is that it will destroy my social life which I have spent alot of effort on and I also feel like out of the foggy epic "bar crawls" can come some of your best friends and maybe a soul mate and by cutting that down I limit the people I come into contact with.
Yet, if I can't handle it which is proving more and more evident, despite everything I said above there still really is no debate as to the proper course of action...
Read alot of the Big Book today. Lots of "wow that describes me" moments which is at times both frightening and illuminating.
Having read the literature I'm of the mind that I don't KNOW if I am alcoholic. But the question I have to ask myself is considering I very well might be, is it worth finding out for sure? Sort of like playing russian roulette. You might take the bullet, you might not... but is the game worth playing in the first place?
I support you. It always used to amaze me when I was your age, how everytime I would try to abstain from substance abuse, the Temptress would be standing there, always offering up a free ride into hell.
Think of your recovery as a journey and always keep your heart and mind open. Sometimes it is very difficult to always view life through rose colored glasses, but it can be done.
Emotional growth stops at the beginning of our usage, but like everything, we recover through our processes.
I don't think that everything magically disappears upon the choices we make. But the choice you are taking is a long term solution as opposed to a quik fix.
4 is a magical number. It represents earth, wind, fire, water as well as north, west, east and south. God Bless You from all direction....
I joined AA when I was 23 and was worried that I would not have a social life. It was the best thing I ever did. I have amazing friends that I met in the program now. Also, the fact I turned my chaotic life around is attractive to people (even girls). The funny thing is that I only got sober because of my HP. They think my own will power and discipline got me sober. I did not realize when I was 23 that most of my friends didn't drink like me. To them it was fun and a stress reliever. To me it was necessary just to feel OK. I was extremely immature because drinking was my only coping mechanism. In my experience that is a turn-off to people (even girls). I can honestly say that had I not stopped when I did, my life would be meaningless and hopeless. This disease is progressive and only gets worse if untreated. I suggest that every alcoholic gives this thing a try. What do they have to loose?
Thanks, I have been having the same thing with my lists... writing the first column and my mind is wandering to the others.
To be honest, I've started to think of the twelve steps as a circle, as I feel like you are never really going to finish any step. A step is something you use to get to the next level then you are done with it but the steps here aren't that way. I've got a sponsor now and I'm doing step one with him. I took step 3 out loud with my wife last night and need to do it again and again. And I'm slowly working on my step 4 lists. I guess I don't feel like I'll ever "finish" one step, you just change your opinion to them and review them as your understanding changes. I'm cool with that though - easy does it.
Something that helped me with step three was that all I needed to do was make a "decision" to turn it over. The work comes later. I was really complicating that step as I thought that I couldn't give up my will at an instant. It doesn't suggest to do that in my interpretation. I really like the word "decision" in that step. Otherwise, it would be something like -- We turned our will over... Now that was how I was interpreting it at first. I hope this helps.[/quote] What is nice about the steps is you never finish them. So, for those worried about "jumping to the next column", etc., go ahead! You will redo all the steps over and over. Its like peeling back the layers of an onion. Each time, you only go deeper. If we completed each step thoroughly when we do them , then we'd graduate, which we never do.
The problem with going into column 2 before finishing column 1, in the 4th step, is that I became angry. I was replaying all the horrible things people had done to me. It was a dangerous situation for me as I was new to the program. Instead of healing, I was tearing the scabs off old wounds. By stepping back and talking to my sponsor, I learned that it was much better for me to just keep moving down until finished with a column. That way I wouldn't get caught up and possibly drink. I also think it is important to note that this is not advise from me. It is in "The Big Book". It worked really well for me. It is true that you can always do another 4th step if you weren't honest or it was not thorough. But I found it best to keep moving in order to stay sober. I see too many people getting hung up on certain steps and some drink. Once you get to step 10, you will be handling your inventory regularly and should not need to go back to the 4th.
The problem with going into column 2 before finishing column 1, in the 4th step, is that I became angry. I was replaying all the horrible things people had done to me. It was a dangerous situation for me as I was new to the program. Instead of healing, I was tearing the scabs off old wounds. By stepping back and talking to my sponsor, I learned that it was much better for me to just keep moving down until finished with a column. That way I wouldn't get caught up and possibly drink. I also think it is important to note that this is not advise from me. It is in "The Big Book". It worked really well for me. It is true that you can always do another 4th step if you weren't honest or it was not thorough. But I found it best to keep moving in order to stay sober. I see too many people getting hung up on certain steps and some drink. Once you get to step 10, you will be handling your inventory regularly and should not need to go back to the 4th.
Okay, so there are 4 lists, as far as I can tell: resentment, fear, sex conduct, harm to others.
Is the idea to do the first column on each list of the four lists, then the second column on each list...etc?
Or do we just to each list in turn working all of the columns on that list and then starting the next list when it is complete?
I had started the 4th step but, to be honest, I've been working, writing a lot in LIM and doing some stuff witha new sponsor, so I feel I need to go back and start step 4 again and do it thoroughly one more time while I'm completely focused on it.
The problem with going into column 2 before finishing column 1, in the 4th step, is that I became angry. I was replaying all the horrible things people had done to me. It was a dangerous situation for me as I was new to the program. Instead of healing, I was tearing the scabs off old wounds. By stepping back and talking to my sponsor, I learned that it was much better for me to just keep moving down until finished with a column. That way I wouldn't get caught up and possibly drink. I also think it is important to note that this is not advise from me. It is in "The Big Book". It worked really well for me. It is true that you can always do another 4th step if you weren't honest or it was not thorough. But I found it best to keep moving in order to stay sober. I see too many people getting hung up on certain steps and some drink. Once you get to step 10, you will be handling your inventory regularly and should not need to go back to the 4th.
Okay, so there are 4 lists, as far as I can tell: resentment, fear, sex conduct, harm to others.
Is the idea to do the first column on each list of the four lists, then the second column on each list...etc?
Or do we just to each list in turn working all of the columns on that list and then starting the next list when it is complete?
I had started the 4th step but, to be honest, I've been working, writing a lot in LIM and doing some stuff witha new sponsor, so I feel I need to go back and start step 4 again and do it thoroughly one more time while I'm completely focused on it.
Follow your sponsers direction. As for the 4th , each list seperately by column, then move on to the next list.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Now that is good advice
I know it sounds simple but your comment made me think that I've been trying to control my relationship with this guy because it's pretty new. I'd be better off just to trust what he wants to do and not undermine his efforts by doing my 4th step alone while he's trying to help me out by starting off slowly. When the time is right we'll get there together.
I would definitely follow your sponsors advice. I'm sure you asked him because you have confidence in him. I was told to have a column for 1. Who I was resentful at. 2. The Cause 3. Affects My 4. Where Was I to Blame and 5. Sex Conduct. I found that my fears were always connected to the 4th column, as shown in the text. I was also told to do the first column, write down who I was resentful at. After doing the first column, than move to the second, and so on. It was a mental problem for me. I was not writing in other columns but I was in column 2 in my head. For example, I resented a previous boss of mine because he told another employee that he smelled alcohol on my breath at work. I should have just put his name down and moved on. Instead, I became angry with the situation and uncomfortable. As I moved on, I was doing the same thing with everyone I was resentful at. As you can imagine, my head was filling up with garbage. It worked for me to just finish the first column without thinking about The Cause at that time. When I read the Big Book closely, it was pretty clear that the first 100 did it that way. It's really amazing that you are doing this step! I am sure it will change your thinking for the better and help you in your relationships. Good luck!
Comments
I now realize the strongest thing I can do is admit I have a weakness.
On Saturday, For the first time in my life, my destructive drinking truly harmed my friends (something I'm not ok with), not just myself (something I am ok with).
25 years old on day 3.
Congratulations! Hang on in there, I'm pretty fresh to this and the first week was a looooong week, every day had about 48 hours. But it gets easier if you try and do it right...
Thanks. It does feel like time is just interminable and the prospect of no drinking is just ever present on my mind.
The hardest part is confronting the things in my life that I have always ran from with my drinking. When i started it was like I can't deal with life, so I'll drink when I need relief. It was like I was commiting temporary suicide through alcohol.
And circumstances have changed so much for the better that there is nothing left to run from but myself, but that can still be a scary proposition. When i needed an exit I always found one in the drink... which is why my episodes i believe are so destructive in nature because they were born from darkness.
but now, I feel like I'm in a room with no doors and when I don't like the room I'm not sure what to do.
I've been an atheist all my life, always struggled with the idea of anything more important than me in the world, but I can honestly say that when I was in a room with no doors I said a prayer hoping something or someone out there would hear it and it made me feel better. Or I contacted another alcoholic and spoke to them. It helps.
Love lift us all in recovery process.
It is a life long journey, for certain.
25 years now and I still show the signs
of a dry abuser.
What does one do when we have a crash?
We get back up, stand even taller.
Forgive ourselves for placing our own
self-worth in jeopardy
And then.....
Ask ourselves quietly, in care,
"how could I have been more loving?"
the answer we will find will come to us
in the
silence of the wind,
a knock at the door,
or even a kettle brewing on a stove.
The Higher Power is Reigning
Divine Love
keeping in mind that every step we take; every transformation, even every breath, is a process in progress.
I love you
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
good luck man. that's a tough age to do it at, but you're not alone on that count. i was 23-24 when i first cleaned up, after being a drinker since high school. i did it for a lot of the reasons you describe... it was a way to escape things i didn't want to face, even when things were pretty good in my life. i also ended up hurting friends through it, which is why i stopped.
that said, i'm not sober anymore. thus why i say it's a tough age to deal with addiction at... very easy to forget why you got there or stop caring about whether you stay there or not. i'm in the latter camp... i found that after 4 years i was still unhappy and still refusing to face things. that's more becos of me and my failings than AA or anything though. i never gave the program as much effort as it seemed to require and eventually just drifted away. i've seen many people find peace in AA/sobriety and become very happy with what they got from it. hopefully you can be one of them, but i didn't find what i was looking for there and now i'm back where i started.
It would be like that "got milk?" bumpersticker.. but mine would say:
"had enough?
and I did...
SS is correct, if you don''t want to get sober.. don't worry.. you won't!
But as corny as it sounds, if you want what we have in AA,
then just do what we do...
It works..
I don't really know how or why but it just does...
If it helps, you're not alone in recovery..
Mike McCready
Alice Cooper
Chris Cornell
Joe Perry
and James Hetfield all know how it feels...
(Not a bad club to join?)
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Can't forget Eric C. Yes C. is a god!!!!
Also before his passing Mr. Stevie Ray V.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
When I did the fourth step, I immediately started to be come angry because I was not staying in one column. I called my sponsor, and eventhough I wasn't writing in the next column, my mind was going there. It was at that time that I realised the fourth step is only valuable, in my experience, if I continue the steps. Otherwise, it is just more clutter up in my head to sort through and possibly drink over. As for helping a non-alcoholic, I would do the same as you. Perhaps, I would check up on her though.
Thanks, I have been having the same thing with my lists... writing the first column and my mind is wandering to the others.
To be honest, I've started to think of the twelve steps as a circle, as I feel like you are never really going to finish any step. A step is something you use to get to the next level then you are done with it but the steps here aren't that way. I've got a sponsor now and I'm doing step one with him. I took step 3 out loud with my wife last night and need to do it again and again. And I'm slowly working on my step 4 lists. I guess I don't feel like I'll ever "finish" one step, you just change your opinion to them and review them as your understanding changes. I'm cool with that though - easy does it.
To be honest, I've started to think of the twelve steps as a circle, as I feel like you are never really going to finish any step. A step is something you use to get to the next level then you are done with it but the steps here aren't that way. I've got a sponsor now and I'm doing step one with him. I took step 3 out loud with my wife last night and need to do it again and again. And I'm slowly working on my step 4 lists. I guess I don't feel like I'll ever "finish" one step, you just change your opinion to them and review them as your understanding changes. I'm cool with that though - easy does it.[/quote]
Something that helped me with step three was that all I needed to do was make a "decision" to turn it over. The work comes later. I was really complicating that step as I thought that I couldn't give up my will at an instant. It doesn't suggest to do that in my interpretation. I really like the word "decision" in that step. Otherwise, it would be something like -- We turned our will over... Now that was how I was interpreting it at first. I hope this helps.
Well you are 100% right about it being a tough age to do it at. All my closest friends drink and just last night I went out for dinner with three of them, one of whom was one of the people I screwed over on Saturday night.
They all were saying I'm punishing myself too much... and i explained that i'm not viewing this is a punishment. After dinner we went to a wine bar and after intense prodding I agree to taste some wine the way you might offer it to a 10 year old - as I hated being the total drag and i don't believe in absolute's anyway... just like how I read someone earlier in this thread say if you fall down on the way to the store, you don't go back home and start the trip over. I don't count it as a slip, rather it was playing in traffic and coming out unharmed.
The rest of the night I nursed a diet coke. I was surrounded by peer pressure and alcohol from 7 pm to 11:15 and I didn't crack and actually by the end of the night my friends who had been prodding me were patting me on the back, as if congrats: you fell on the sword for one night and thats admirable but you'll be back in action by the weekend right?... lol
My best friend is actually very unhappy that I am aking this measure and I truly understand why. We have had some amazing times that have centered around drinking, and I am not against alcohol - but it is very hard for people my age to understand that my drinking comes from a dark place and leads to a dark place because I think most of them are party drinkers who properly use alcohol to enhance pleasure while I on the other hand use it to kill pain.
I think I finally made them understand by comparing it to being prescribed pain medication for a surgery, but after you are all better now you still have the pain killer addiction. It was necessary, but now its a detriment. Thats sort of like my relationship to alcohol.
I used it as self medication to get me through a time when my life was totally fucked up, and you know I'm not sure I could have done it without alcohol. I was in survival mode and the drink helped me to survive.
but now my life isn't fucked up anymore and I don't want to just survive, I want to live... alcohol returns me to the escapist/survival mindset. So while I'm not prepared to say I will never drink again, I do need a prolonged period of dryness to get my head in the right place and my life heading in the direction I want it to be heading, rather than just getting by day to day.
Day 4.
It may seem like a "hard age" but what age isn't? I think that age is irrelevant, drinkers have a knack of finding other drinkers, no matter how old they are. It's not like we get to 28 and one day we are suddenly surrounded by a sober crowd and we are the only ones staggering about.
no, you get to 28 and you're not surrounded by any crowd becos all your friends are married to wives that won't let them drink like you all used to, so it's easier when your friends' activities are pot luck dinners instead of epic bar crawls
I guess there is something in what you say but I still think that someone with an alcohol problem will always find a reason to drink and people to drink with. If not, we drink alone.
Having said that, to agree with your main point, I drunk right through my twenties because "everyone else is". I'm not saying it was the right thing to do though!
So, when it comes to 'tough ages', I can only speak from my own experience of how hard it is to stop. But I can't imagine that it is any easier or more difficult for the young guy whose friends drink or the old geezer who has been drinking for 40 years, or a woman or a man, black or white, intelligent or not so blessed - everyone in AA is equal in my eyes and I can't image that my own struggle is any more or less real than anyone elses. Age is really unimportant if you have had enough, it comes down to something more fundamental once you start stopping.
yeah, i was half joking. i think it's hard regardless, it's just hard for different reasons at different ages. in your 20s, almost all social life revolved around bars and drinking. i didn't make many friends in law school becos i didn't go to the bars (knew i couldn't trust myself) and thus missed out on the prime bonding opportunities the whole way through. before that, i lost almost all my friends when i quit drinking. most of them were coworkers in a restaurant and once i didn't go out to party, i was left. even older, more serious friends saw less of me becos we were doing different things most of the time.
of course, when you're older there are challenges too. it becomes ingrained into your life and habits in a way that it never could in my scattershot, ever-shifting life. you have a lot more tied to it becos you've spent years building a life around it. i think there's a bigger hole to fill in your life if you quit later, but i think the situational pressure to drink is greater when you quit young.
to me, that was a huge value of AA, finding young people in the same boat.
I support you. It always used to amaze me when I was your age, how everytime I would try to abstain from substance abuse, the Temptress would be standing there, always offering up a free ride into hell.
Think of your recovery as a journey and always keep your heart and mind open. Sometimes it is very difficult to always view life through rose colored glasses, but it can be done.
Emotional growth stops at the beginning of our usage, but like everything, we recover through our processes.
I don't think that everything magically disappears upon the choices we make. But the choice you are taking is a long term solution as opposed to a quik fix.
4 is a magical number. It represents earth, wind, fire, water as well as north, west, east and south. God Bless You from all direction....
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Having said that, to agree with your main point, I drunk right through my twenties because "everyone else is". I'm not saying it was the right thing to do though!
So, when it comes to 'tough ages', I can only speak from my own experience of how hard it is to stop. But I can't imagine that it is any easier or more difficult for the young guy whose friends drink or the old geezer who has been drinking for 40 years, or a woman or a man, black or white, intelligent or not so blessed - everyone in AA is equal in my eyes and I can't image that my own struggle is any more or less real than anyone elses. Age is really unimportant if you have had enough, it comes down to something more fundamental once you start stopping.[/quote]
I think that you are totally right in one sense.
But on the other hand being 25 and single my biggest concern about becoming a non-drinker is that it will destroy my social life which I have spent alot of effort on and I also feel like out of the foggy epic "bar crawls" can come some of your best friends and maybe a soul mate and by cutting that down I limit the people I come into contact with.
Yet, if I can't handle it which is proving more and more evident, despite everything I said above there still really is no debate as to the proper course of action...
Read alot of the Big Book today. Lots of "wow that describes me" moments which is at times both frightening and illuminating.
Having read the literature I'm of the mind that I don't KNOW if I am alcoholic. But the question I have to ask myself is considering I very well might be, is it worth finding out for sure? Sort of like playing russian roulette. You might take the bullet, you might not... but is the game worth playing in the first place?
Thanks!
Something that helped me with step three was that all I needed to do was make a "decision" to turn it over. The work comes later. I was really complicating that step as I thought that I couldn't give up my will at an instant. It doesn't suggest to do that in my interpretation. I really like the word "decision" in that step. Otherwise, it would be something like -- We turned our will over... Now that was how I was interpreting it at first. I hope this helps.[/quote]
What is nice about the steps is you never finish them. So, for those worried about "jumping to the next column", etc., go ahead! You will redo all the steps over and over. Its like peeling back the layers of an onion. Each time, you only go deeper. If we completed each step thoroughly when we do them , then we'd graduate, which we never do.
http://onecraftymother.blogspot.com/200 ... t-day.html
Feel free to share!
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Okay, so there are 4 lists, as far as I can tell: resentment, fear, sex conduct, harm to others.
Is the idea to do the first column on each list of the four lists, then the second column on each list...etc?
Or do we just to each list in turn working all of the columns on that list and then starting the next list when it is complete?
I had started the 4th step but, to be honest, I've been working, writing a lot in LIM and doing some stuff witha new sponsor, so I feel I need to go back and start step 4 again and do it thoroughly one more time while I'm completely focused on it.
Wow!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Now that is good advice
I know it sounds simple but your comment made me think that I've been trying to control my relationship with this guy because it's pretty new. I'd be better off just to trust what he wants to do and not undermine his efforts by doing my 4th step alone while he's trying to help me out by starting off slowly. When the time is right we'll get there together.