America's Gun Violence #2
Comments
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I’m still not seeing this big blame on the teacher and the door that in keep seeing references too here. All the focus I keep seeing is why did it take an hour to unlock the door.Merkin Baller said:Hopefully some day America can figure out it’s locked / unlocked / propped open door issues.I wonder how other countries handle this great dilemma.
Even watched about an hour of Fox News last night (Shannon Bream) and I don’t think it was brought up once.
i saw that tweet that was reposted here claiming the right was blaming the door, and all the comments where saying the right is blaming the door, but no one was actually blaming the door.
Where is everyone getting this idea that all the right is blaming the door?0 -
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell for $300 but aren’t worthy the hassle or cost of selling on my own as I described above.
*And no, none of what you’d said makes me mad or infringes on my 2A rights. I’m just explaining the process.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
I found gun stores in Denver that charged a range of 15% to $75, a flat fee, for facilitating a transfer of a firearm.mace1229 said:
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell.
Jeez Mace, ever think to have the buyer pay the fees? Ever think to make a For Sale sign? Maybe with a gmail email for further information? You make it sound like the oppressive government is preventing you from selling your firearms. Seems to me like they made it fairly easy and straight forward. And safer. How hard is any of this to do while your firearms sit collecting dust? Seems more like stubborn principle to me. It also seems like firearms are like automobiles in that the moment you take them off the lot or out of the store, they lose value and thus, are a poor investment.
Why do you have to ship it to a dealer? Can’t drive? Walk or ride a bike to a licensed gun store?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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I imagine other countries must have hired the mighty Ted Cruz as a consultant on the issue.Merkin Baller said:Hopefully some day America can figure out it’s locked / unlocked / propped open door issues.I wonder how other countries handle this great dilemma.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
https://youtube.com/shorts/5T7y200gWD8?feature=sharemace1229 said:
I’m still not seeing this big blame on the teacher and the door that in keep seeing references too here. All the focus I keep seeing is why did it take an hour to unlock the door.Merkin Baller said:Hopefully some day America can figure out it’s locked / unlocked / propped open door issues.I wonder how other countries handle this great dilemma.
Even watched about an hour of Fox News last night (Shannon Bream) and I don’t think it was brought up once.
i saw that tweet that was reposted here claiming the right was blaming the door, and all the comments where saying the right is blaming the door, but no one was actually blaming the door.
Where is everyone getting this idea that all the right is blaming the door?
Not all the right, but a high profile member in the state of TXThis weekend we rock Portland0 -
Mexico?Poncier said:
I imagine other countries must have hired the mighty Ted Cruz as a consultant on the issue.Merkin Baller said:Hopefully some day America can figure out it’s locked / unlocked / propped open door issues.I wonder how other countries handle this great dilemma.0 -
1.2 million listings, for those interested.
An Everytown investigation showed that as many as 1 in 9 people arranging to buy a firearm on Armslist.com, the nation’s largest online gun marketplace, are people who cannot legally have firearms. And the unlicensed sale marketplace is large: the same investigation found that each year, 1.2 million ads offering firearms for sale are listed that would not legally require a background check to be completed. A 2015 survey found that nearly a quarter of Americans—22 percent—who acquired a firearm in the two years prior did so without a background check.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Probably has a beautiful corner office in Cancun.Hobbes said:
Mexico?Poncier said:
I imagine other countries must have hired the mighty Ted Cruz as a consultant on the issue.Merkin Baller said:Hopefully some day America can figure out it’s locked / unlocked / propped open door issues.I wonder how other countries handle this great dilemma.This weekend we rock Portland0 -
%15 to $75 flat fee. I said most gun stores charge about $75, so not sure what the argument is here? The same number I used.Halifax2TheMax said:
I found gun stores in Denver that charged a range of 15% to $75, a flat fee, for facilitating a transfer of a firearm.mace1229 said:
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell.
Jeez Mace, ever think to have the buyer pay the fees? Ever think to make a For Sale sign? Maybe with a gmail email for further information? You make it sound like the oppressive government is preventing you from selling your firearms. Seems to me like they made it fairly easy and straight forward. And safer. How hard is any of this to do while your firearms sit collecting dust? Seems more like stubborn principle to me. It also seems like firearms are like automobiles in that the moment you take them off the lot or out of the store, they lose value and thus, are a poor investment.
Why do you have to ship it to a dealer? Can’t drive? Walk or ride a bike to a licensed gun store?
Buyers would pay the fees. But no one would pay $300 for a private party gun sale knowing there are more fees involved. Selling a gun is a lot like everything else. Just like cars and guitars, people expect to pay less, not more, going through a private party vs a dealership or Guitar Center. So with a private party and the additional fees involved, a gun that a store sells for $300 I would expect to get at most $200 selling on my own, and that is likely only going to save the buyer $25-$50 on the price, not a huge savings for him going private party sale.
You might ship because it’s difficult to find a buyer on those online websites you mentioned locally. You can sell on gun trader or gunbroker, but most likely the buyer will be out of state. I’m not waking that far. So I would use a postal service. Shipping increases the cost to the buyer, and therefore usually means he’s willing to spend less on the gun. Do you never factor in cost of shipping when buying something on eBay? You’d be the only one.
I could make a sign. Where would I put it, my front yard? I wouldn’t really want to advertise to everyone who drives by.
Im not sure why everything has to turn into an argument. The question was would gun owners sell any of their guns in a buyback program? I said I would. If someone offered me full value for a gun, sure I’d sell some. I don’t understand why that is difficult to understand. People do it all the time with everything. Look at lost dogs, people post looking for ads. And a poster they maybe weren’t actively trying to sell but was just sitting around, someone offers a fair price they sell it.
I didn’t complain about the process or the cost. Never said guns should be an investment. Didn’t say it’s infringing anything. Just explaining the process, don’t know why you always jump to those conclusions.0 -
Especially since these teachers are all weird "groomers."tbergs said:
That last one is scary. I can't believe support for arming teachers is that high.brianlux said:Look at these again:A Politico/Morning consult poll out Wednesday showed “huge support” for gun regulations. It showed that 88% of voters strongly or somewhat support background checks on all gun sales, while only 8% strongly or somewhat oppose such checks. That’s a net approval of +80.
Preventing gun sales to people who have been reported to police as dangerous by a mental health provider is supported by 84% of voters while only 9% oppose it, a net approval of +75.
Seventy-seven percent of voters support requiring guns to be stored in a safe storage unit, while only 15% oppose such a requirement, a net approval of +62.
A national database for gun sales gets 75% approval and 18% disapproval, a net approval rate of +57.
Banning assault style weapons like the AR-15 has an approval rate of 67% of voters while only 25% disapprove. That’s a net approval of +42.
And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.And yet look what we've got. This is lunacy.
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Because your initial explanation of “the process” was not accurate. You began by claiming you’d have to pay a 50% commission and made it sound like “the process” wasn’t worth the “hassle.” Guess you’re stuck with your guns?mace1229 said:
%15 to $75 flat fee. I said most gun stores charge about $75, so not sure what the argument is here? The same number I used.Halifax2TheMax said:
I found gun stores in Denver that charged a range of 15% to $75, a flat fee, for facilitating a transfer of a firearm.mace1229 said:
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell.
Jeez Mace, ever think to have the buyer pay the fees? Ever think to make a For Sale sign? Maybe with a gmail email for further information? You make it sound like the oppressive government is preventing you from selling your firearms. Seems to me like they made it fairly easy and straight forward. And safer. How hard is any of this to do while your firearms sit collecting dust? Seems more like stubborn principle to me. It also seems like firearms are like automobiles in that the moment you take them off the lot or out of the store, they lose value and thus, are a poor investment.
Why do you have to ship it to a dealer? Can’t drive? Walk or ride a bike to a licensed gun store?
Buyers would pay the fees. But no one would pay $300 for a private party gun sale knowing there are more fees involved. Selling a gun is a lot like everything else. Just like cars and guitars, people expect to pay less, not more, going through a private party vs a dealership or Guitar Center. So with a private party and the additional fees involved, a gun that a store sells for $300 I would expect to get at most $200 selling on my own, and that is likely only going to save the buyer $25-$50 on the price, not a huge savings for him going private party sale.
You might ship because it’s difficult to find a buyer on those online websites you mentioned locally. You can sell on gun trader or gunbroker, but most likely the buyer will be out of state. I’m not waking that far. So I would use a postal service. Shipping increases the cost to the buyer, and therefore usually means he’s willing to spend less on the gun. Do you never factor in cost of shipping when buying something on eBay? You’d be the only one.
I could make a sign. Where would I put it, my front yard? I wouldn’t really want to advertise to everyone who drives by.
Im not sure why everything has to turn into an argument. The question was would gun owners sell any of their guns in a buyback program? I said I would. If someone offered me full value for a gun, sure I’d sell some. I don’t understand why that is difficult to understand. People do it all the time with everything. Look at lost dogs, people post looking for ads. And a poster they maybe weren’t actively trying to sell but was just sitting around, someone offers a fair price they sell it.
I didn’t complain about the process or the cost. Never said guns should be an investment. Didn’t say it’s infringing anything. Just explaining the process, don’t know why you always jump to those conclusions.
If I had something that cost me $400 or $375 or whatever your initial claim was, however many years ago, and I could get $300 or even $250 for it now, I’d sell it. And I’d figure it out. 20 million guns purchased in 2020 and you can’t tell me they were all brand new from a licensed retail store.
And yes, selling a firearm is a lot like everything else, possible. The “hassle” part is on you.Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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tbergs said:
That last one is scary. I can't believe support for arming teachers is that high.brianlux said:Look at these again:A Politico/Morning consult poll out Wednesday showed “huge support” for gun regulations. It showed that 88% of voters strongly or somewhat support background checks on all gun sales, while only 8% strongly or somewhat oppose such checks. That’s a net approval of +80.
Preventing gun sales to people who have been reported to police as dangerous by a mental health provider is supported by 84% of voters while only 9% oppose it, a net approval of +75.
Seventy-seven percent of voters support requiring guns to be stored in a safe storage unit, while only 15% oppose such a requirement, a net approval of +62.
A national database for gun sales gets 75% approval and 18% disapproval, a net approval rate of +57.
Banning assault style weapons like the AR-15 has an approval rate of 67% of voters while only 25% disapprove. That’s a net approval of +42.
And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.And yet look what we've got. This is lunacy.
Agreed, it's a horrible idea! When I as teaching, if they'd told me I had to be armed to go to work, I'd have quit. No doubt many others would as well. The notion that arming more people will solve the problem is insane.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
The Real Reason America Doesn’t Have Gun Control
The basic rules of American democracy provide a veto over national policy to a minority of the states.
continues....May 25, 2022After each of the repeated mass shootings that now provide a tragic backbeat to American life, the same doomed dance of legislation quickly begins. As the outraged demands for action are inevitably derailed in Congress, disappointed gun-control advocates, and perplexed ordinary citizens, point their fingers at the influence of the National Rifle Association or the intransigent opposition of congressional Republicans. Those are both legitimate factors, but the stalemate over gun-control legislation since Bill Clinton’s first presidential term ultimately rests on a much deeper problem: the growing crisis of majority rule in American politics.
Polls are clear that while Americans don’t believe gun control would solve all of the problems associated with gun violence, a commanding majority supports the central priorities of gun-control advocates, including universal background checks and an assault-weapons ban. Yet despite this overwhelming consensus, it’s highly unlikely that the massacre of at least 19 schoolchildren and two adults in Uvalde, Texas, yesterday, or President Joe Biden’s emotional plea for action last night, will result in legislative action.
That’s because gun control is one of many issues in which majority opinion in the nation runs into the brick wall of a Senate rule—the filibuster—that provides a veto over national policy to a minority of the states, most of them small, largely rural, preponderantly white, and dominated by Republicans.
Post edited by mickeyrat on_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I laid out the different options. Selling through a store on commission was only 1 of them.Halifax2TheMax said:
Because your initial explanation of “the process” was not accurate. You began by claiming you’d have to pay a 50% commission and made it sound like “the process” wasn’t worth the “hassle.” Guess you’re stuck with your guns?mace1229 said:
%15 to $75 flat fee. I said most gun stores charge about $75, so not sure what the argument is here? The same number I used.Halifax2TheMax said:
I found gun stores in Denver that charged a range of 15% to $75, a flat fee, for facilitating a transfer of a firearm.mace1229 said:
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell.
Jeez Mace, ever think to have the buyer pay the fees? Ever think to make a For Sale sign? Maybe with a gmail email for further information? You make it sound like the oppressive government is preventing you from selling your firearms. Seems to me like they made it fairly easy and straight forward. And safer. How hard is any of this to do while your firearms sit collecting dust? Seems more like stubborn principle to me. It also seems like firearms are like automobiles in that the moment you take them off the lot or out of the store, they lose value and thus, are a poor investment.
Why do you have to ship it to a dealer? Can’t drive? Walk or ride a bike to a licensed gun store?
Buyers would pay the fees. But no one would pay $300 for a private party gun sale knowing there are more fees involved. Selling a gun is a lot like everything else. Just like cars and guitars, people expect to pay less, not more, going through a private party vs a dealership or Guitar Center. So with a private party and the additional fees involved, a gun that a store sells for $300 I would expect to get at most $200 selling on my own, and that is likely only going to save the buyer $25-$50 on the price, not a huge savings for him going private party sale.
You might ship because it’s difficult to find a buyer on those online websites you mentioned locally. You can sell on gun trader or gunbroker, but most likely the buyer will be out of state. I’m not waking that far. So I would use a postal service. Shipping increases the cost to the buyer, and therefore usually means he’s willing to spend less on the gun. Do you never factor in cost of shipping when buying something on eBay? You’d be the only one.
I could make a sign. Where would I put it, my front yard? I wouldn’t really want to advertise to everyone who drives by.
Im not sure why everything has to turn into an argument. The question was would gun owners sell any of their guns in a buyback program? I said I would. If someone offered me full value for a gun, sure I’d sell some. I don’t understand why that is difficult to understand. People do it all the time with everything. Look at lost dogs, people post looking for ads. And a poster they maybe weren’t actively trying to sell but was just sitting around, someone offers a fair price they sell it.
I didn’t complain about the process or the cost. Never said guns should be an investment. Didn’t say it’s infringing anything. Just explaining the process, don’t know why you always jump to those conclusions.
If I had something that cost me $400 or $375 or whatever your initial claim was, however many years ago, and I could get $300 or even $250 for it now, I’d sell it. And I’d figure it out. 20 million guns purchased in 2020 and you can’t tell me they were all brand new from a licensed retail store.
And yes, selling a firearm is a lot like everything else, possible. The “hassle” part is on you.
There are fewer options to post guns for sale online, most places don’t allow it. The ones that do have fees, it’s not like Craigslist. The fees can be high to have a gun dealer do the paperwork. It’s not difficult to understand, you’re just choosing not to.
You like to make simple claims to really complicated arguments. I never said all gun sales are brand new? Where did you get that? Again, part of your hobby of making stuff up to complicate a simple statement.
If I was eager to sell a gun, I’d go through the proper channels and sell it.My initial “claim” was a hypothetical gun value. So my apologies if it changed from $375 to 400 and it confused you.The question was would any gun owners sell guns in an optional buyback program? I’m not eager to sell it, but if someone just offered me a fair value I’d sell some and keep some. Therefore a buyback program would work for some of my guns and not others. But knowing I can’t just post it on Facebook or Craigslist and expect full market value, I’m more likely to keep it. That’s it. No need to complicate this, or make false claims that I’m angry and my rights are being violated, or only new guns are being sold. Equally puzzling as to why you continue to try and complicate that simple fact is why do I keep responding?0 -
mickeyrat said:
The Real Reason America Doesn’t Have Gun Control
The basic rules of American democracy provide a veto over national policy to a minority of the states.
continues....May 25, 2022After each of the repeated mass shootings that now provide a tragic backbeat to American life, the same doomed dance of legislation quickly begins. As the outraged demands for action are inevitably derailed in Congress, disappointed gun-control advocates, and perplexed ordinary citizens, point their fingers at the influence of the National Rifle Association or the intransigent opposition of congressional Republicans. Those are both legitimate factors, but the stalemate over gun-control legislation since Bill Clinton’s first presidential term ultimately rests on a much deeper problem: the growing crisis of majority rule in American politics.
Polls are clear that while Americans don’t believe gun control would solve all of the problems associated with gun violence, a commanding majority supports the central priorities of gun-control advocates, including universal background checks and an assault-weapons ban. Yet despite this overwhelming consensus, it’s highly unlikely that the massacre of at least 19 schoolchildren and two adults in Uvalde, Texas, yesterday, or President Joe Biden’s emotional plea for action last night, will result in legislative action.
That’s because gun control is one of many issues in which majority opinion in the nation runs into the brick wall of a Senate rule—the filibuster—that provides a veto over national policy to a minority of the states, most of them small, largely rural, preponderantly white, and dominated by Republicans.
Good article!Time to end the filibuster and gerrymandering!"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Electoral College as wellbrianlux said:mickeyrat said:The Real Reason America Doesn’t Have Gun Control
The basic rules of American democracy provide a veto over national policy to a minority of the states.
continues....May 25, 2022After each of the repeated mass shootings that now provide a tragic backbeat to American life, the same doomed dance of legislation quickly begins. As the outraged demands for action are inevitably derailed in Congress, disappointed gun-control advocates, and perplexed ordinary citizens, point their fingers at the influence of the National Rifle Association or the intransigent opposition of congressional Republicans. Those are both legitimate factors, but the stalemate over gun-control legislation since Bill Clinton’s first presidential term ultimately rests on a much deeper problem: the growing crisis of majority rule in American politics.
Polls are clear that while Americans don’t believe gun control would solve all of the problems associated with gun violence, a commanding majority supports the central priorities of gun-control advocates, including universal background checks and an assault-weapons ban. Yet despite this overwhelming consensus, it’s highly unlikely that the massacre of at least 19 schoolchildren and two adults in Uvalde, Texas, yesterday, or President Joe Biden’s emotional plea for action last night, will result in legislative action.
That’s because gun control is one of many issues in which majority opinion in the nation runs into the brick wall of a Senate rule—the filibuster—that provides a veto over national policy to a minority of the states, most of them small, largely rural, preponderantly white, and dominated by Republicans.
Good article!Time to end the filibuster and gerrymandering!0 -
cblock4life said:
Electoral College as wellbrianlux said:mickeyrat said:The Real Reason America Doesn’t Have Gun Control
The basic rules of American democracy provide a veto over national policy to a minority of the states.
continues....May 25, 2022After each of the repeated mass shootings that now provide a tragic backbeat to American life, the same doomed dance of legislation quickly begins. As the outraged demands for action are inevitably derailed in Congress, disappointed gun-control advocates, and perplexed ordinary citizens, point their fingers at the influence of the National Rifle Association or the intransigent opposition of congressional Republicans. Those are both legitimate factors, but the stalemate over gun-control legislation since Bill Clinton’s first presidential term ultimately rests on a much deeper problem: the growing crisis of majority rule in American politics.
Polls are clear that while Americans don’t believe gun control would solve all of the problems associated with gun violence, a commanding majority supports the central priorities of gun-control advocates, including universal background checks and an assault-weapons ban. Yet despite this overwhelming consensus, it’s highly unlikely that the massacre of at least 19 schoolchildren and two adults in Uvalde, Texas, yesterday, or President Joe Biden’s emotional plea for action last night, will result in legislative action.
That’s because gun control is one of many issues in which majority opinion in the nation runs into the brick wall of a Senate rule—the filibuster—that provides a veto over national policy to a minority of the states, most of them small, largely rural, preponderantly white, and dominated by Republicans.
Good article!Time to end the filibuster and gerrymandering!
Oh my, YES!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I thought accuracy in discussing firearms was important for understanding? Guess not.mace1229 said:
I laid out the different options. Selling through a store on commission was only 1 of them.Halifax2TheMax said:
Because your initial explanation of “the process” was not accurate. You began by claiming you’d have to pay a 50% commission and made it sound like “the process” wasn’t worth the “hassle.” Guess you’re stuck with your guns?mace1229 said:
%15 to $75 flat fee. I said most gun stores charge about $75, so not sure what the argument is here? The same number I used.Halifax2TheMax said:
I found gun stores in Denver that charged a range of 15% to $75, a flat fee, for facilitating a transfer of a firearm.mace1229 said:
What you said is correct, but you’re also missing some steps.Halifax2TheMax said:
My understanding is that you can sell the gun to another buyer and that the requirements are that the buyer go to a licensed dealer to facilitate the purchase by having them file the paperwork for the CBI check. Your obligation is not to transfer the firearm until the CBI check declares the buyer is legally allowed to possess the firearm. Each transaction requires this but a transaction can be multiple firearms. The dealer is allowed to charge a small fee, previously $10.00, now it appears to be $15.00. That’s from the CBI website. CBI used to have 3 days to conduct the background check but it was expanded to up to 30 because during a deluge of requests, it was taking 4 days and regardless of the background check results, the transfer was legal if it wasn’t completed within 3 days. Now the process, on average, takes 20 minutes. You’re not required to leave the firearm with the dealer so I’m not sure where you come up with a 50% commission. These requirements were passed by the legislature and, again, because of the deluge of requests and Colorado’s excess revenue law, they even reduced the fee to $7.00 for a short time. Also, there’s an online platform called ArmsList where you can advertise your firearms for sale and I’m sure state “only to legal residents of Colorado.”mace1229 said:
No. Not what I said at all.Halifax2TheMax said:
So up to $10.00 and waiting up to 30 days for a CBI check to come back on the buyer is “too much of a hassle and expensive?”mace1229 said:
That’s exactly what I would do if it was retail value. It’s too much of a hassle and expensive to sell a gun privately, so I end up keeping some I will probably never use. If I got fair market I’d sell them.Cropduster-80 said:
They may not sell all their guns, but they might get rid of half of them if it’s enough money.HughFreakingDillon said:
isn't "freedum from tyranny" the biggest incentive of them all amongst this crowd? or I suppose I'm overestimating the amount of nut jobs in the gun owner group.Cropduster-80 said:
At market rates a lot. Above market rates even more.HughFreakingDillon said:
I'd be interested to know what percentage of gun owners in america would voluntarily sell back their gun. I'd say in the zero point something to zero point something but slightly higher range.Gern Blansten said:
I would say a voluntary buyback program and required registration...maybe even a program where you have to let the police verify the weapon is still in your possession every few years.HughFreakingDillon said:the problem with not seizing them means all those guns are still in circulation. all the regulation and registration won't change the fact that a certain percentage of gun owner simply do not adequately secure their firearms away from people who shouldn't have them.
a mandatory buyback program coupled with a hefty jail sentence for anyone who is non compliant would do wonders.
the propaganda associated with a buyback, mandatory or voluntary, by the right wing media would be like something none of us had ever seen. so I don't think that's ever going to happen. I think Biden et al are going to try to ban "assault style" rifles like Clinton did. But he'll grandfather in current owners and require registration, which will do absolutely nothing. And it will fail anyway. I'm sure even a few democrats would vote against it.
giving out a 20 dollar gift card per gun, not a lot.
At the end of the day it’s about incentives
I agree a buyback program is probably less effective among single gun owners
you’re referring to fees with buying a gun. I was taking about selling guns.
If I sell mine through a gun store, they’ll usually take half for commission.
If I want to sell it at a gun show then I have to spend all weekend either waking around trying to sell it, or rent a booth for the weekend and hope someone is interested enough to offer me a fair price . Even less worth it.
most online sites don’t allow advertisement of guns.
I’m sure there’s some out there, but I’m not even aware of a local place like Craigslist that allows it, so doubtful it gets much traffic.
There are sites like gunbroker, but there are more fees, have to ship to a dealer which adds to the cost. A gun dealer isn’t going to receive and handle the gun for free. I’ve never tried shipping a gun, but there’s probably more paperwork involved.
So if I have a gun worth $350 and I’m likely going to get half that selling through a store or online, I’m more likely to keep it.
I’d be willing to bet a lot less people would sell posters if they were banned on here, eBay and almost every other website except for a few select auctions sites dedicated to posters which took 50% commission. We’d all probably just end up keeping posters we aren’t too excited about if that was the case.
Im sure you find all of this a violation of your 2A and it makes you angry at the gubmint for limiting your freedom? Why do you think the sale of guns online is more arduous than posters? Before the interwebs, there were whole glossy catalogs of firearms for sale by private folks just like the Autotrader mag that’s still around. Paper Tiger and another reason nothing changes.
If I’m selling my gun, where am I going to find a buyer? I’m not allowed to list on Facebook, Craigslist, or almost anywhere else. So finding a buyer is a hassle.
My 50% commission I mentioned was selling my gun through a dealer on consignment. Go to any gun store and they will have used guns. Where did they get them? They are guns they sell on consignment or buy flat out for about half value. Much like a music store, Guitar center will pay me $500 then sell my guitar for $1000. Most people don’t do that because selling a guitar on your own is easy. Finding a buyer for a gun isn’t since most online places don’t allow you to sell it.
To find that buyer I have to spend a weekend walking around a gun show hoping someone is going to buy 2 or 3 guns I’m selling. Totally not worth my time.
Even if I do find a buyer, it’s a lot more than the $15 you were talking about. That $15 is what the government charges for the background check. The store charges whatever they want to process it. Buy a gun through the store they almost always waive that fee. Do it as a third party transfer they often charge about $75, which is going to lower the cost of the gun.
Since I have a gun worth $300 that I want to sell my options are really get $150 for it from the store. Spend a weekend trying to sell it and maybe get around $200 for it because the buyer isnt going to pay much more than that knowing the fees involved on a private transfer. Sell it online, which again it will probably sell for less than $200 because the buyer knows he has even more fees shipping it to a dealer and after my listing fees I probably walk away with the $150 I’d get from the store.
Knowing this hypothetical gun is worth $300, knowing I’d have to pay taxes and fees if I ever wanted it again on top of that price, but would only get a small amount back by selling, I’m more likely to keep it.
So the original question who would sell guns to a buyback program. If there was a buyback program that did offer me the $300 it’s worth, there’s a couple I’d sell.
Jeez Mace, ever think to have the buyer pay the fees? Ever think to make a For Sale sign? Maybe with a gmail email for further information? You make it sound like the oppressive government is preventing you from selling your firearms. Seems to me like they made it fairly easy and straight forward. And safer. How hard is any of this to do while your firearms sit collecting dust? Seems more like stubborn principle to me. It also seems like firearms are like automobiles in that the moment you take them off the lot or out of the store, they lose value and thus, are a poor investment.
Why do you have to ship it to a dealer? Can’t drive? Walk or ride a bike to a licensed gun store?
Buyers would pay the fees. But no one would pay $300 for a private party gun sale knowing there are more fees involved. Selling a gun is a lot like everything else. Just like cars and guitars, people expect to pay less, not more, going through a private party vs a dealership or Guitar Center. So with a private party and the additional fees involved, a gun that a store sells for $300 I would expect to get at most $200 selling on my own, and that is likely only going to save the buyer $25-$50 on the price, not a huge savings for him going private party sale.
You might ship because it’s difficult to find a buyer on those online websites you mentioned locally. You can sell on gun trader or gunbroker, but most likely the buyer will be out of state. I’m not waking that far. So I would use a postal service. Shipping increases the cost to the buyer, and therefore usually means he’s willing to spend less on the gun. Do you never factor in cost of shipping when buying something on eBay? You’d be the only one.
I could make a sign. Where would I put it, my front yard? I wouldn’t really want to advertise to everyone who drives by.
Im not sure why everything has to turn into an argument. The question was would gun owners sell any of their guns in a buyback program? I said I would. If someone offered me full value for a gun, sure I’d sell some. I don’t understand why that is difficult to understand. People do it all the time with everything. Look at lost dogs, people post looking for ads. And a poster they maybe weren’t actively trying to sell but was just sitting around, someone offers a fair price they sell it.
I didn’t complain about the process or the cost. Never said guns should be an investment. Didn’t say it’s infringing anything. Just explaining the process, don’t know why you always jump to those conclusions.
If I had something that cost me $400 or $375 or whatever your initial claim was, however many years ago, and I could get $300 or even $250 for it now, I’d sell it. And I’d figure it out. 20 million guns purchased in 2020 and you can’t tell me they were all brand new from a licensed retail store.
And yes, selling a firearm is a lot like everything else, possible. The “hassle” part is on you.
There are fewer options to post guns for sale online, most places don’t allow it. The ones that do have fees, it’s not like Craigslist. The fees can be high to have a gun dealer do the paperwork. It’s not difficult to understand, you’re just choosing not to.
You like to make simple claims to really complicated arguments. I never said all gun sales are brand new? Where did you get that? Again, part of your hobby of making stuff up to complicate a simple statement.
If I was eager to sell a gun, I’d go through the proper channels and sell it.My initial “claim” was a hypothetical gun value. So my apologies if it changed from $375 to 400 and it confused you.The question was would any gun owners sell guns in an optional buyback program? I’m not eager to sell it, but if someone just offered me a fair value I’d sell some and keep some. Therefore a buyback program would work for some of my guns and not others. But knowing I can’t just post it on Facebook or Craigslist and expect full market value, I’m more likely to keep it. That’s it. No need to complicate this, or make false claims that I’m angry and my rights are being violated, or only new guns are being sold. Equally puzzling as to why you continue to try and complicate that simple fact is why do I keep responding?
And the initial post of yours that I responded to was your claim “it’s not worth the hassle.” I don’t view it as a hassle. Fuck, going to the supermarket is “a hassle.”
I wasn’t confused, just couldn’t remember what your initial post was regarding the value of your firearm(s). Regardless, weren’t you chastising us for not knowing the technical terms for gun parts, in the interest of understanding?
So, 15% or up to $75 dollars is high? I’m sure you could shop around but maybe it’s too much of a hassle for you? Again, your initial post to what I responded to was not accurate and you made it sound as if it was too much of a hassle to overcome. Ironic that you want the government to provide a solution via a buy back program at fair market value. I thought the “fair market” was the solution to everything?
Honest question, what is the fair market value of an assault rifle, give a range to factor all the doo hickey upfits, and what would the government have to offer for a buy back? How much would it cost, keeping in mind POOTWH gave away $1.3 or 4 or 5 or 7 trillion dollars, mostly to the top %?
If the above, would you still be able to defend yourself if the government banned them and made them illegal with the firearms left on the market and would you consider your 2A trampled?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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Here’s what we collectively forget about as time goes on. Until it happens again.
Noah Orona still had not cried.
The 10-year-old’s father, Oscar, couldn’t understand it. Just hours earlier, a stranger with a rifle had walked into the boy’s fourth-grade classroom at Robb Elementary School and opened fire, slaughtering his teachers and classmatesin front of him. One round struck Noah in the shoulder blade, carving a 10-inch gash through his back before popping out and spraying his right arm with shrapnel. He’d laid amid the blood and bodies of his dead friends for an hour, maybe more, waiting for help to come.
But there he was, resting in his hospital bed, his brown eyes vacant, his voice muted.
“I think my clothes are ruined,” Noah lamented.
It was okay, his dad assured him. He would get new clothes.
“I don’t think I’m going to get to go back to school,” he said.
“Don’t worry about it,” his father insisted, squeezing his son’s left hand.
“I lost my glasses,” the boy continued. “I’m sorry.”
The children and adults who die in school shootings dominate headlines and consume the public’s attention. Body counts become synonymous with each event, dictating where they rank in the catalogue of these singularly American horrors: 10 at Santa Fe High, 13 at Columbine High, 17 at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High, 26 at Sandy Hook Elementary. And now, added to the list is 21 at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Tex.
Those tallies, however, do not begin to capture the true scope of this epidemic in the United States, where hundreds of thousands of children’s lives have been profoundly changed by school shootings. There are the more than 360 kids and adults, including Noah, who have been injured on K-12 campuses since 1999, according to a Washington Post database. And then there are the children who suffer no physical wounds at all, but are still haunted for years by what they saw or heard or lost.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/05/28/survivors-school-shootings-uvalde-sandy-hook/
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