I never said it was a bad idea or a bad program. Just wondering. If this was a common thing, I’d buy every gun under $250 I see and get $400 and an iPad.
Where do you normally get a gun for less than $250? If you’re a “responsible” gun buyer? Particularly in NYC/NY State? And it’s $400 in gift cards, not cold hard cash ‘Murican.
Not too hard. Most gun stores have a used section. Something with a lot of the finish worn off or a little bit of pitting devalues it a lot. Heres a Remington RM380 new for $279, I’ve seen it on sale for under $200 during big sale weekends. I bought one when it was $149 a few years ago. Sportsman’s warehouse, one of the biggest sporting stores in the country. https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/handguns/remington-rm380-pistol/p/p41813 Id take $400 in gift cards and an iPad for that.
Willing to travel to Brooklyn to do it? Seems you may have missed your calling? Domestic arms dealer for peace on the streets.
Wasn’t trying to turn this into an argument or debate. Just saying $400 (cash or gift card, doesn’t matter if it’s a place I’d use, usually these buybacks are a place everyone can use like Home Depot) isn’t a bad deal. Not sure why this is turning into a debate.
I never said it was a bad idea or a bad program. Just wondering. If this was a common thing, I’d buy every gun under $250 I see and get $400 and an iPad.
Where do you normally get a gun for less than $250? If you’re a “responsible” gun buyer? Particularly in NYC/NY State? And it’s $400 in gift cards, not cold hard cash ‘Murican.
Not too hard. Most gun stores have a used section. Something with a lot of the finish worn off or a little bit of pitting devalues it a lot. Heres a Remington RM380 new for $279, I’ve seen it on sale for under $200 during big sale weekends. I bought one when it was $149 a few years ago. Sportsman’s warehouse, one of the biggest sporting stores in the country. https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/handguns/remington-rm380-pistol/p/p41813 Id take $400 in gift cards and an iPad for that.
Willing to travel to Brooklyn to do it? Seems you may have missed your calling? Domestic arms dealer for peace on the streets.
Wasn’t trying to turn this into an argument or debate. Just saying $400 (cash or gift card, doesn’t matter if it’s a place I’d use, usually these buybacks are a place everyone can use like Home Depot) isn’t a bad deal. Not sure why this is turning into a debate.
It seemed to me that you were advocating taking advantage of a program that’s primarily in place to get firearms from people that have them laying around and don’t want them anymore, rather than to find a firearm for $200 or less so you can make a quick buck. Did I misunderstand you? A week or so ago you were lamenting how you couldn’t get what you paid or thought your unwanted/unused firearms are worth but you’d be willing to take advantage of something like this. Sorry, but I’m not following your thought process on this issue.
So, those unwanted guns you have, would you trade them in for $400 and an iPad mini or would you go buy the RM380, turn it in and make a quick buck?
I never said it was a bad idea or a bad program. Just wondering. If this was a common thing, I’d buy every gun under $250 I see and get $400 and an iPad.
Where do you normally get a gun for less than $250? If you’re a “responsible” gun buyer? Particularly in NYC/NY State? And it’s $400 in gift cards, not cold hard cash ‘Murican.
Not too hard. Most gun stores have a used section. Something with a lot of the finish worn off or a little bit of pitting devalues it a lot. Heres a Remington RM380 new for $279, I’ve seen it on sale for under $200 during big sale weekends. I bought one when it was $149 a few years ago. Sportsman’s warehouse, one of the biggest sporting stores in the country. https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/handguns/remington-rm380-pistol/p/p41813 Id take $400 in gift cards and an iPad for that.
Willing to travel to Brooklyn to do it? Seems you may have missed your calling? Domestic arms dealer for peace on the streets.
Wasn’t trying to turn this into an argument or debate. Just saying $400 (cash or gift card, doesn’t matter if it’s a place I’d use, usually these buybacks are a place everyone can use like Home Depot) isn’t a bad deal. Not sure why this is turning into a debate.
It seemed to me that you were advocating taking advantage of a program that’s primarily in place to get firearms from people that have them laying around and don’t want them anymore, rather than to find a firearm for $200 or less so you can make a quick buck. Did I misunderstand you? A week or so ago you were lamenting how you couldn’t get what you paid or thought your unwanted/unused firearms are worth but you’d be willing to take advantage of something like this. Sorry, but I’m not following your thought process on this issue.
So, those unwanted guns you have, would you trade them in for $400 and an iPad mini or would you go buy the RM380, turn it in and make a quick buck?
That comment you’re referring to was me actually supporting an optional buy back program. I have guns I don’t care for that much and if I were offered fair market, I’d take it, but just haven’t bothered to go out of my way to sell them. You wanted to make a big thing of it then and I don’t know why. It’s no different than all those ISO posts in Lost Dogs. Lots of people have posters or vinyl they haven’t put up for sale, but if someone comes along and offers a fair price, they’ll take it. I’ve purchased a few posters by doing that. Those people likely weren’t just about to list said poster for sale, but I came along and offered a fair value. It’s not a unique situation, happens all the time. And you’re still going on about it a week later. I’d probably sell half my collection if that program was local here. I’ve bought some pretty cheap guns. Especially the first ones I bought. Big 5 used to regularly carry military surplus bolt action rifles from the 50s and 60s, and sell them for $80-100. I don’t plan on selling them, but if I were offered $400 I’d take it. Again, assuming it’s a worth while gift card, like a Visa or Home Depot. If it’s $400 to Olive Garden, I’d pass. If the goal of the program was to get guns out of Public hands, or “off the street,” then it would be effective in my case.
I never said it was a bad idea or a bad program. Just wondering. If this was a common thing, I’d buy every gun under $250 I see and get $400 and an iPad.
Where do you normally get a gun for less than $250? If you’re a “responsible” gun buyer? Particularly in NYC/NY State? And it’s $400 in gift cards, not cold hard cash ‘Murican.
Not too hard. Most gun stores have a used section. Something with a lot of the finish worn off or a little bit of pitting devalues it a lot. Heres a Remington RM380 new for $279, I’ve seen it on sale for under $200 during big sale weekends. I bought one when it was $149 a few years ago. Sportsman’s warehouse, one of the biggest sporting stores in the country. https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/handguns/remington-rm380-pistol/p/p41813 Id take $400 in gift cards and an iPad for that.
Willing to travel to Brooklyn to do it? Seems you may have missed your calling? Domestic arms dealer for peace on the streets.
Wasn’t trying to turn this into an argument or debate. Just saying $400 (cash or gift card, doesn’t matter if it’s a place I’d use, usually these buybacks are a place everyone can use like Home Depot) isn’t a bad deal. Not sure why this is turning into a debate.
No. Just commented it’s not a bad deal for a lot of guns
That wasn't the wording you originally used, but ok.
True. My first comment was “I wonder how many of those guns were worth $200” or something close to that.Which I agree can come across as criticizing this program. Then I spent about the next 10 posts answering questions and clarifying that it’s not a bad deal and I would participate if they had one locally. If the goal is to remove guns from society, this could help.
No. Just commented it’s not a bad deal for a lot of guns
That wasn't the wording you originally used, but ok.
True. My first comment was “I wonder how many of those guns were worth $200” or something close to that.Which I agree can come across as criticizing this program. Then I spent about the next 10 posts answering questions and clarifying that it’s not a bad deal and I would participate if they had one locally. If the goal is to remove guns from society, this could help.
This is where you lose me. Do you really believe that buying inexpensive old guns from a gun store for less than $200 bucks and trading them in for $400 and an iPad mini, to, in your words?, make a quick buck, “removes guns from society and helps?” Seems like it’s undermining the intent of the program, cynically I might add.
No. Just commented it’s not a bad deal for a lot of guns
That wasn't the wording you originally used, but ok.
True. My first comment was “I wonder how many of those guns were worth $200” or something close to that.Which I agree can come across as criticizing this program. Then I spent about the next 10 posts answering questions and clarifying that it’s not a bad deal and I would participate if they had one locally. If the goal is to remove guns from society, this could help.
This is where you lose me. Do you really believe that buying inexpensive old guns from a gun store for less than $200 bucks and trading them in for $400 and an iPad mini, to, in your words?, make a quick buck, “removes guns from society and helps?” Seems like it’s undermining the intent of the program, cynically I might add.
Agreed.
The original comment about the value of the guns didn't "come across" as a criticism the program, it was a criticism of the program, and a snarky one at that, so there shouldn't be much mystery about the comments that followed.
No. Just commented it’s not a bad deal for a lot of guns
That wasn't the wording you originally used, but ok.
True. My first comment was “I wonder how many of those guns were worth $200” or something close to that.Which I agree can come across as criticizing this program. Then I spent about the next 10 posts answering questions and clarifying that it’s not a bad deal and I would participate if they had one locally. If the goal is to remove guns from society, this could help.
This is where you lose me. Do you really believe that buying inexpensive old guns from a gun store for less than $200 bucks and trading them in for $400 and an iPad mini, to, in your words?, make a quick buck, “removes guns from society and helps?” Seems like it’s undermining the intent of the program, cynically I might add.
For one I said I’d give up about half my collection for that price. So I don’t see how that is undermining anything. There would be half the guns in my gun safe, and I’d probably only consider rebuying the one I specifically mentioned. These sort of optional buybacks aren’t new, I just haven’t seen one offering $400 before. They know they aren’t getting criminals to give up their guns. There is zero expectation that violent criminals will suddenly turn their life around because they were offered $400 in gift cards, or that others will give up their guns they obtained illegally. The goal is to have less guns out there in the world. So that’s exactly what it’s doing. Realistically I wouldn’t spend my time hunting for guns for $200 to sell back. But if I came across one for $200 that I thought I might like, I’d be more likely to go ahead and buy it knowing if i didn’t fall in love with it I could easily trade it in for more. And how is that against the integrity of the program? The goal is to get guns out of society, and so even by doing that there’s less guns out there. They don’t expect criminals to be turning in their guns, the goal is to just collect as many as they can. Not undermining anything.
At $100 that I’ve seen offered before I’ve never been tempted to sell back one. At $400 I would.
Sorry, but you explicitly stated how you could go buy an old bolt action rifle for less than $200 and get the loot. It dripped with cynicism and willful contempt. How do you know what the backgrounds or provenance of the 2,000 guns collected in Brooklyn are?
This after lamenting how apparently, initially, it was difficult for you to sell your unwanted guns at your perceived market rate. I linked you to sources where the sale fees were less than half the value, one claim you made, and $75, another claim you made. After you chastised some of us for not using the proper firearm parlance.
Its okay Mace, we don’t have to agree but you help me understand the other side and why positive change is elusive. And fuel my cynicism as to why not much will change as it relates to this issue, despite your support for some of the same policies and the pending senate bill not withstanding.
Thanks for starting an argument. Oh s/ or \s for those so unsure of my intent.
Sorry, but you explicitly stated how you could go buy an old bolt action rifle for less than $200 and get the loot. It dripped with cynicism and willful contempt. How do you know what the backgrounds or provenance of the 2,000 guns collected in Brooklyn are?
This after lamenting how apparently, initially, it was difficult for you to sell your unwanted guns at your perceived market rate. I linked you to sources where the sale fees were less than half the value, one claim you made, and $75, another claim you made. After you chastised some of us for not using the proper firearm parlance.
Its okay Mace, we don’t have to agree but you help me understand the other side and why positive change is elusive. And fuel my cynicism as to why not much will change as it relates to this issue, despite your support for some of the same policies and the pending senate bill not withstanding.
Thanks for starting an argument. Oh s/ or \s for those so unsure of my intent.
Looking back my original posts do sound cynical. I acknowledge that and stated that wasn’t my intent. If you don’t want to accept that, that’s fine.
I have no idea what the background of those 2000 guns were, I just said the intent and expectations of such buy back programs are to remove guns from the street or hands or private citizens.
Talk about beating a dead horse, why are you still bringing up me selling guns? Ive gone over this like 15 times. Someone asked if any gun owners here would participate in a buyback program that offered fair market. I said I would. I’m not actively trying to sell any, but if I was offered market value I’d take it. You asked many questions about a simple statement, so I responded. It’s not worth it to me to try and list it myself so I can make $100 or $200. But if the government came along and offered me a fair value and I didn’t have to clean it up, take lots of pictures, post it for sale, deal with shipping a firearm, pay the listing fees, etc I’d do it. This isn’t a foreign concept, but yet you’re still hung up on it 2 weeks later. How many people here have posters or vinyl they don’t care about, but don’t want to bother with taking pictures, create a listing on eBay, sell it and ship it, pay the fees. But when someone comes along and says they are looking for that poster and offers a fair price, they come forward and say they’ll sell it. It’s no a difficult concept to grasp, I think it’s time you move on. You have nothing in your house that you haven’t posted for sale somewhere, but if someone offered you market value you wouldn’t take it. Nothing? Thats how it is with some of my collection. I’m not eager to sell them, it’s not worth my time, effort and fees associated with it. But if someone offered me a fair value and all I had to do was bring it to a local store and not even worrry about any paperwork, yeah I’d probably sell a few. How many more times are you going to bring this up?
Sorry, but you explicitly stated how you could go buy an old bolt action rifle for less than $200 and get the loot. It dripped with cynicism and willful contempt. How do you know what the backgrounds or provenance of the 2,000 guns collected in Brooklyn are?
This after lamenting how apparently, initially, it was difficult for you to sell your unwanted guns at your perceived market rate. I linked you to sources where the sale fees were less than half the value, one claim you made, and $75, another claim you made. After you chastised some of us for not using the proper firearm parlance.
Its okay Mace, we don’t have to agree but you help me understand the other side and why positive change is elusive. And fuel my cynicism as to why not much will change as it relates to this issue, despite your support for some of the same policies and the pending senate bill not withstanding.
Thanks for starting an argument. Oh s/ or \s for those so unsure of my intent.
Looking back my original posts do sound cynical. I acknowledge that and stated that wasn’t my intent. If you don’t want to accept that, that’s fine.
I have no idea what the background of those 2000 guns were, I just said the intent and expectations of such buy back programs are to remove guns from the street or hands or private citizens.
Talk about beating a dead horse, why are you still bringing up me selling guns? Ive gone over this like 15 times. Someone asked if any gun owners here would participate in a buyback program that offered fair market. I said I would. I’m not actively trying to sell any, but if I was offered market value I’d take it. You asked many questions about a simple statement, so I responded. It’s not worth it to me to try and list it myself so I can make $100 or $200. But if the government came along and offered me a fair value and I didn’t have to clean it up, take lots of pictures, post it for sale, deal with shipping a firearm, pay the listing fees, etc I’d do it. This isn’t a foreign concept, but yet you’re still hung up on it 2 weeks later. How many people here have posters or vinyl they don’t care about, but don’t want to bother with taking pictures, create a listing on eBay, sell it and ship it, pay the fees. But when someone comes along and says they are looking for that poster and offers a fair price, they come forward and say they’ll sell it. It’s no a difficult concept to grasp, I think it’s time you move on. You have nothing in your house that you haven’t posted for sale somewhere, but if someone offered you market value you wouldn’t take it. Nothing? Thats how it is with some of my collection. I’m not eager to sell them, it’s not worth my time, effort and fees associated with it. But if someone offered me a fair value and all I had to do was bring it to a local store and not even worrry about any paperwork, yeah I’d probably sell a few. How many more times are you going to bring this up?
I agreed to disagree and that it was okay.
Would you then be in favor of the federal or state government going to a gun show or gun shop and buying up the whole inventory for as you say, to take guns off the street or making them unavailable to private citizens?
If you don’t know the provenance of those 2000 guns, why would you make the statement that gun buy backs don’t get guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals?
Because you made all of those things about selling your unwanted guns seem insurmountable, even proclaiming that you can’t post them on Facebook. I posted that Facebook gives you 10 whoopsies before they ban you for that. I posted a link to a gun shop in Wyoming that would pay for shipping, after you used that as an excuse of some part of this arduous process that prevents you from selling your unwanted firearms. You even compared them to selling posters. Last time I checked, posters don’t kill people if they fall into the wrong hands, unless it’s that man, goat, bear, pig poster. And all of that after you chastised us non-gun owners by saying we really should know what we’re talking about if you want to advance the issue/cause.
Frankly, some of your comments strike me as having come right off the comments section of the news sites that report on this issue. As for your last paragraph, you started out by saying if you’d get fair market value for your 4 unwanted firearms at a gun buy back program, you’d do it. I guess when it comes to unwanted firearms it’s market value followed by convenience that are the motivation. Good to know, hence my cynicism.
Feel free to continue the argument and I’ll feel free to beat a dead horse. Fair enough?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
If you like that, you should check out his law blog.
Works on contingency. No money down.
oops. that's supposed to have said: Works on contingency? No, money down!
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Because none of those guns make their way into the 5 boroughs, right? And instead of 10,000 a month, its almost twice that. Pick a fight? Adding context but whatever the fuck.
A Hero Ain't Nothing But A Sandwich.
number of guns legally purchased per person is less in nys than in ma. which is less than in ohio. nyc has the smuggled guns to contend with as well.
now back to the buy back. I WONDER if they did tracing and what the break down was by legal in state purchase vs out of state origin.
Yeah that what’s been happening for long time travel to another state and buy your self a bazooka! People at work do the same shot with fireworks they travel to Pennsylvania buy anything you want to blow up!
Yeah like I needed another reason to ever set foot in a church! If only the preacher would of had that six shooter at mass the bad could of been taken out! Thou should not kill my ass!
Comments
So, those unwanted guns you have, would you trade them in for $400 and an iPad mini or would you go buy the RM380, turn it in and make a quick buck?
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I’d probably sell half my collection if that program was local here. I’ve bought some pretty cheap guns. Especially the first ones I bought. Big 5 used to regularly carry military surplus bolt action rifles from the 50s and 60s, and sell them for $80-100. I don’t plan on selling them, but if I were offered $400 I’d take it. Again, assuming it’s a worth while gift card, like a Visa or Home Depot. If it’s $400 to Olive Garden, I’d pass.
If the goal of the program was to get guns out of Public hands, or “off the street,” then it would be effective in my case.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
The original comment about the value of the guns didn't "come across" as a criticism the program, it was a criticism of the program, and a snarky one at that, so there shouldn't be much mystery about the comments that followed.
These sort of optional buybacks aren’t new, I just haven’t seen one offering $400 before. They know they aren’t getting criminals to give up their guns. There is zero expectation that violent criminals will suddenly turn their life around because they were offered $400 in gift cards, or that others will give up their guns they obtained illegally. The goal is to have less guns out there in the world. So that’s exactly what it’s doing. Realistically I wouldn’t spend my time hunting for guns for $200 to sell back. But if I came across one for $200 that I thought I might like, I’d be more likely to go ahead and buy it knowing if i didn’t fall in love with it I could easily trade it in for more. And how is that against the integrity of the program? The goal is to get guns out of society, and so even by doing that there’s less guns out there. They don’t expect criminals to be turning in their guns, the goal is to just collect as many as they can. Not undermining anything.
This after lamenting how apparently, initially, it was difficult for you to sell your unwanted guns at your perceived market rate. I linked you to sources where the sale fees were less than half the value, one claim you made, and $75, another claim you made. After you chastised some of us for not using the proper firearm parlance.
Its okay Mace, we don’t have to agree but you help me understand the other side and why positive change is elusive. And fuel my cynicism as to why not much will change as it relates to this issue, despite your support for some of the same policies and the pending senate bill not withstanding.
Thanks for starting an argument. Oh s/ or \s for those so unsure of my intent.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Do quit your day job.
I have no idea what the background of those 2000 guns were, I just said the intent and expectations of such buy back programs are to remove guns from the street or hands or private citizens.
Talk about beating a dead horse, why are you still bringing up me selling guns?
Ive gone over this like 15 times. Someone asked if any gun owners here would participate in a buyback program that offered fair market. I said I would. I’m not actively trying to sell any, but if I was offered market value I’d take it. You asked many questions about a simple statement, so I responded. It’s not worth it to me to try and list it myself so I can make $100 or $200. But if the government came along and offered me a fair value and I didn’t have to clean it up, take lots of pictures, post it for sale, deal with shipping a firearm, pay the listing fees, etc I’d do it. This isn’t a foreign concept, but yet you’re still hung up on it 2 weeks later. How many people here have posters or vinyl they don’t care about, but don’t want to bother with taking pictures, create a listing on eBay, sell it and ship it, pay the fees. But when someone comes along and says they are looking for that poster and offers a fair price, they come forward and say they’ll sell it. It’s no a difficult concept to grasp, I think it’s time you move on. You have nothing in your house that you haven’t posted for sale somewhere, but if someone offered you market value you wouldn’t take it. Nothing?
Thats how it is with some of my collection. I’m not eager to sell them, it’s not worth my time, effort and fees associated with it. But if someone offered me a fair value and all I had to do was bring it to a local store and not even worrry about any paperwork, yeah I’d probably sell a few. How many more times are you going to bring this up?
Would you then be in favor of the federal or state government going to a gun show or gun shop and buying up the whole inventory for as you say, to take guns off the street or making them unavailable to private citizens?
If you don’t know the provenance of those 2000 guns, why would you make the statement that gun buy backs don’t get guns out of the hands of dangerous criminals?
Because you made all of those things about selling your unwanted guns seem insurmountable, even proclaiming that you can’t post them on Facebook. I posted that Facebook gives you 10 whoopsies before they ban you for that. I posted a link to a gun shop in Wyoming that would pay for shipping, after you used that as an excuse of some part of this arduous process that prevents you from selling your unwanted firearms. You even compared them to selling posters. Last time I checked, posters don’t kill people if they fall into the wrong hands, unless it’s that man, goat, bear, pig poster. And all of that after you chastised us non-gun owners by saying we really should know what we’re talking about if you want to advance the issue/cause.
Frankly, some of your comments strike me as having come right off the comments section of the news sites that report on this issue. As for your last paragraph, you started out by saying if you’d get fair market value for your 4 unwanted firearms at a gun buy back program, you’d do it. I guess when it comes to unwanted firearms it’s market value followed by convenience that are the motivation. Good to know, hence my cynicism.
Feel free to continue the argument and I’ll feel free to beat a dead horse. Fair enough?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
must not have had an ar-15.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
them and the alterboys. give em a chance to defend themselves against the priests....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
oops. that's supposed to have said: Works on contingency? No, money down!
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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