Man. That poor kid (and so many others). But also, huge kudos to her for the playing dead thing. Bright and resourceful during a time of unimaginable crisis. Not sure how many adults would have thought that through and done what she did.
Locking and not propping doors to a school open should not be our collective answer to gun violence in america as it relates to school shootings. How lazy. No nationalism, no white supremecy, no ease of access to guns, not social media distorting peoples views of one another on a human level. lets just keep doing what we are doing and lock the doors JFC..none of this would ever happen if people just knew the doors to the school were locked...give me a break
No one said that. People asked how did he get in so easily and how did the mom get her kids. No one said unlocked doors is the biggest problem and the sole solution to the problem.
Locking and not propping doors to a school open should not be our collective answer to gun violence in america as it relates to school shootings. How lazy. No nationalism, no white supremecy, no ease of access to guns, not social media distorting peoples views of one another on a human level. lets just keep doing what we are doing and lock the doors JFC..none of this would ever happen if people just knew the doors to the school were locked...give me a break
No one said that. People asked how did he get in so easily and how did the mom get her kids. No one said unlocked doors is the biggest problem and the sole solution to the problem.
no one here. but it is being discussed with some seriousness by republicans.
I read that this morning and didn't want to post it. That one choked me up.
There have been a few reads / watches that are uncomfortable to watch, like the guy who was tending to a child that told him his daughter was killed (They didn't know each other; she just dropped her friend's name).
And EVERYONE regardless of where they stand on anything should get through something that makes them uncomfortable. It's valuable, in my opinion to do little things that can make this stuff less theoretical, especially as we become desensitized to the frequency.
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not sure if it was posted, but I think @tempo_n_groove wanted to read about this story
Thanks. The school wasn't in very good lockdown if she was able to grab her kids from 2 different grades and get them out...
And it also backs up that the police had the gunman isolated so that she was able to do that.
No way a school on lockdown w an active shooter should have a person come in and be able to retrieve their kids and no one stopped them, someone opened a door to allow them in...
hard to stop a mother....she probably wasn't going to stop for anyone or anything
I don't see how you don't find anything wrong with what happened?
are you surmising the school wasn't really on lockdown or something? isn't lockdown procedural until the authorities get there? a school can't still be on full lockdown if the police need to get in and out
Some form of protocol was broken. Kids and teachers lock themselves in the room and hide until law enforcement tells them it's ok.
Now I understand why the mom did it but it put other lives in jeopardy with her doing that and other teachers allowing her and going through with it.
I am thinking worst case scenario on what could have happened.
As a parent I would have gone in, right or wrong I’d do it.
This containment strategy reminds me of the old protocol when planes were hijacked. The assumption was never they are going to crash the plane. Today it is.
a school shooter is killing as many as possible and will likely kill themselves or die by police. Waiting an hour means more deaths. They aren’t taking hostages and asking for money and a van to escape. You breach immediately
not sure if it was posted, but I think @tempo_n_groove wanted to read about this story
Thanks. The school wasn't in very good lockdown if she was able to grab her kids from 2 different grades and get them out...
And it also backs up that the police had the gunman isolated so that she was able to do that.
No way a school on lockdown w an active shooter should have a person come in and be able to retrieve their kids and no one stopped them, someone opened a door to allow them in...
hard to stop a mother....she probably wasn't going to stop for anyone or anything
I don't see how you don't find anything wrong with what happened?
are you surmising the school wasn't really on lockdown or something? isn't lockdown procedural until the authorities get there? a school can't still be on full lockdown if the police need to get in and out
Some form of protocol was broken. Kids and teachers lock themselves in the room and hide until law enforcement tells them it's ok.
Now I understand why the mom did it but it put other lives in jeopardy with her doing that and other teachers allowing her and going through with it.
I am thinking worst case scenario on what could have happened.
As a parent I would have gone in, right or wrong I’d do it.
This containment strategy reminds me of the old protocol when planes were hijacked. The assumption was never they are going to crash the plane. Today it is.
a school shooter is killing as many as possible and will likely kill themselves or die by police. Waiting an hour means more deaths. They aren’t taking hostages and asking for money and a van to escape. You breach immediately
You should discuss the protocol with your schools then. Take it up with them since you disagree...
It’s the police but yeah. A strategy that is more dangerous for them, which it is. I’m sure they’ll listen
I get why they are making them do it, but I am like you, I'd want my kids out. If you had to sit and wait that long then there is a problem and something else needs to get done, I'm with you.
If I was a teacher I would have escorted the kids out the damn window to safety. No way I'd want to stay in there. I'd have had my ass reprimanded, but I'd live with it.
That mom though could have gotten other kids killed by doing what she did.
Not to sidetrack the discussion but one minute before he crashed his car a teacher propped open a door. If I was betting the school has crap AC and it was hot. Since doors seem to be a constant cause cited
I only say that because my kids school had AC from the 70’s and the kids have started taking pictures of the thermostat on their iPads. It’s way over 80 degrees all the time.
District can’t afford to fix it. The well funded PTA offered to replace it. That’s a no too because it’s not fair to the more disadvantaged schools in the district. Uvalde is pretty disadvantaged to begin with so they probably have no funding and no well funded PTA.
What if it’s not even about doors, it’s about a crappy AC unit ?
That isn't what I was getting at. If the school was indeed on lockdown a mom shouldn't be able to come in and grab her kids. People weren't doing their jobs and that mom put others at risk.
I did think about the AC thing because that is why I mentioned fleeing out the window.
I was just reflecting generally on the fact people don’t care about schools until someone shoots them up. Then it’s about more guns, more security, more turning it into a prison.
No one cares about the learning environment that ends up trying to educate these people who grow up to be mass shooters. School funding that makes a tolerable learning environment, preparing students, having opportunities goes a long way in reducing angry people who do this kind of stuff
Locking and not propping doors to a school open should not be our collective answer to gun violence in america as it relates to school shootings. How lazy. No nationalism, no white supremecy, no ease of access to guns, not social media distorting peoples views of one another on a human level. lets just keep doing what we are doing and lock the doors JFC..none of this would ever happen if people just knew the doors to the school were locked...give me a break
Preach
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Teacher propped the door open 1 minute before the shooter entered through that same door. One can argue that he would have gotten in regardless (I’m sure it’s a regular glass door that you can shatter ) but that is an incredibly tragic case of timing. She will live with that forever I’m guessing.
Locking and not propping doors to a school open should not be our collective answer to gun violence in america as it relates to school shootings. How lazy. No nationalism, no white supremecy, no ease of access to guns, not social media distorting peoples views of one another on a human level. lets just keep doing what we are doing and lock the doors JFC..none of this would ever happen if people just knew the doors to the school were locked...give me a break
No one said that. People asked how did he get in so easily and how did the mom get her kids. No one said unlocked doors is the biggest problem and the sole solution to the problem.
Teacher propped the door open 1 minute before the shooter entered through that same door. One can argue that he would have gotten in regardless (I’m sure it’s a regular glass door that you can shatter ) but that is an incredibly tragic case of timing. She will live with that forever I’m guessing.
Praying for all of those kids alive or not.
One could also argue that if an 18 year wasn't allowed to buy 2 semi auto rifles that no one would be dead and people wouldn't be blaming a teacher for not making the school more prison like. This will clearly be the hill that all politicians opposed to any change in our gun laws will choose to die one. This one is done. Nothing for sure is changing now.
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
in response to what I'm really hoping is a sarcastic post:
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
in response to what I'm really hoping is a sarcastic post:
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
really?
My post was not sarcastic. It was 100% fine and reasonable. I said it my post it wasn’t the teacher’s fault. But, the teacher did prop a locked door open. I don’t know why, and there may be a chance the shooter might have made it into the school anyway.
My point is that by publicizing how the shooter got in (a propped open door), maybe people will think twice about propping open a door that is locked to help protect people just in case.
Nobody should be blaming the teacher, but locked doors are one of the defenses. The shooter could have got in some other way too but what if it did take him another two minutes to find a way in and a cop got there in that two minutes?
We can be anti-gun and point out other ways to defend ourselves too.
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
in response to what I'm really hoping is a sarcastic post:
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
really?
I was trying to address that point earlier. Door open could be because the AC is broken. It’s exactly why that happens at my kids school. These politicians blaming the door also cut school funding to the point they can’t get it fixed
it’s hard to learn when it’s 85 degrees inside. It’s easy to say it should be closed and we don’t know why it was open. That’s my guess. Assuming incompetence on the part of the school who have an impossible job with no money seems less likely to me
Doors are the analogy here. Locking them down Vs tackling problems in schools that makes learning impossible. Who failed these kids who grow up to be shooters? The school or the system that makes these schools anything but places of opportunity?
Reinforce the doors or actually hire a social worker? reinforce the door or support students so they have a reasonable chance at success after leaving that school? All these mass shooters were these students once. Hardly any of them have any level of success or positive things in their lives. I don’t know of many rich, highly educated shooters with a ton of opportunity in their lives
Every cop who tries to pin the blame on the teacher should have his ass fired and not be allowed to be re-hired. Or maybe send them to work with the Ukrainian army on the front line.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
in response to what I'm really hoping is a sarcastic post:
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
really?
My post was not sarcastic. It was 100% fine and reasonable. I said it my post it wasn’t the teacher’s fault. But, the teacher did prop a locked door open. I don’t know why, and there may be a chance the shooter might have made it into the school anyway.
My point is that by publicizing how the shooter got in (a propped open door), maybe people will think twice about propping open a door that is locked to help protect people just in case.
Nobody should be blaming the teacher, but locked doors are one of the defenses. The shooter could have got in some other way too but what if it did take him another two minutes to find a way in and a cop got there in that two minutes?
We can be anti-gun and point out other ways to defend ourselves too.
but by allowing the focus to be on that at this stage, you/we are paving the way for that to the ridiculous distraction gun nuts need to get through this unscathed. AGAIN. sure, mention it later in a report. But this cop purposely made it the focus of that part of the press release. sorry, but you're buying it.
I'm not.
another two minutes with these (supposedly) coward cops would have done nothing. again, shifting the blame. of COURSE he would have gotten in another way. I've never ONCE heard of a school shooting being thwarted by locked doors. ffs
Sorry David, it's not. People have moved on to "door gate". Abbott couldn't say gun, but I'm sure he'll say door at least 10 times at the next press conference he holds.
Hate to say it but I don’t think it’s going to be different at all. When the commotion of the emotion settles down and Moscow Mitchy Baby holds up any bill or the repubs vote it down and they run out the clock until the midterms and more gun nutters get elected at all levels of gubmint or they pass a bill that is immediately challenged as unconstitutional and it’s fast tracked to the insurrectionist corrupt SCOTUS, they can say they tried and nothing changes. And then it’ll happen again.
I saw that conference earlier. I didn’t see that as blaming the teacher. People wanted to know how the shooter got in. They have details. He didn’t harp on that fact. Just answering a question everyone’s been asking for 3 days. You think if he just said the shooter enter through an unlocked or propped open door people would t be asking why wasn’t it locked closed?
I saw that conference earlier. I didn’t see that as blaming the teacher. People wanted to know how the shooter got in. They have details. He didn’t harp on that fact. Just answering a question everyone’s been asking for 3 days. You think if he just said the shooter enter through an unlocked or propped open door people would t be asking why wasn’t it locked closed?
i want to know why they did not go in and why they waited. nothing else matters beyond that. they knew there was a shooter shooting kids inside a school. that is as big of an emergency as it gets.
since this is texas, i wonder if they were waiting for the us cavalry to come rolling in to save the day. or the texas rangers.
the police response here was fucking inexcusable.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I think it is a good thing to mention multiple times that the teacher propped the door open. People should hopefully think twice next time about propping a door open (as until we get guns out of murderers hands the door is an important defense). I hope this teacher can come to peace and not have his/her life ruined by guilt. It isn't the teacher's fault that this happened. The teacher did something that one out of a 1,000,000 times would not have resulted in an issue. But we all should be thinking about the 1 in a million chance when we prop a door open that is typically locked for good reason.
in response to what I'm really hoping is a sarcastic post:
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
really?
My post was not sarcastic. It was 100% fine and reasonable. I said it my post it wasn’t the teacher’s fault. But, the teacher did prop a locked door open. I don’t know why, and there may be a chance the shooter might have made it into the school anyway.
My point is that by publicizing how the shooter got in (a propped open door), maybe people will think twice about propping open a door that is locked to help protect people just in case.
Nobody should be blaming the teacher, but locked doors are one of the defenses. The shooter could have got in some other way too but what if it did take him another two minutes to find a way in and a cop got there in that two minutes?
We can be anti-gun and point out other ways to defend ourselves too.
but by allowing the focus to be on that at this stage, you/we are paving the way for that to the ridiculous distraction gun nuts need to get through this unscathed. AGAIN. sure, mention it later in a report. But this cop purposely made it the focus of that part of the press release. sorry, but you're buying it.
I'm not.
another two minutes with these (supposedly) coward cops would have done nothing. again, shifting the blame. of COURSE he would have gotten in another way. I've never ONCE heard of a school shooting being thwarted by locked doors. ffs
Hugh, we can’t get guns out of circulation tomorrow so if we are going to protect kids in school today and tomorrow, the best thing the general public can do to keep each other safe is be diligent about securing the building you are in.
That is all I am saying. I hate automatic guns too. I hate the NRA too. A pistol for protection is the only thing I can be okay with because we will never ban guns. I am placing zero blame on the teacher, and nobody should be using the teacher as a scapegoat, or saying doors are the answer to all of our security problems.
I get that you are upset, and we all are, but don’t project things on other people that they are not saying. Not everything needs to be an argument. I should be able to post here saying that people shouldn’t prop open doors that are meant to keep kids safe, and not have to caveat it like I have to do by saying I don’t like guns, not the teacher’s fault, yada yada yada. This is a big problem on AMT and I think why moderates like myself don’t post often.
so the republicans want door control. no mention of the one thing common in all of these shootings. the ar-15.
Doors are not mentioned in the Constitution so doors are OK. If I was an NRA-funded Senator, I'd advocate hard for door control. Without doors, people would be more likely to buy guns.
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But also, huge kudos to her for the playing dead thing. Bright and resourceful during a time of unimaginable crisis. Not sure how many adults would have thought that through and done what she did.
No one said unlocked doors is the biggest problem and the sole solution to the problem.
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And EVERYONE regardless of where they stand on anything should get through something that makes them uncomfortable. It's valuable, in my opinion to do little things that can make this stuff less theoretical, especially as we become desensitized to the frequency.
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it seems they've all gotten together and agreed on the deflection du jour. PIECES OF GARBAGE. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
so I suppose it also makes sense to blame the driver of a car who forgot to put their seatbelt on and got killed by a drunk driver, instead of the dangers of drunk driving? sure, mention how the driver 1 time out of a million forgot their seatbelt. but then the liquor industry has paid people to talk about that instead of the drunk driving issue.
really?
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We can be anti-gun and point out other ways to defend ourselves too.
it’s hard to learn when it’s 85 degrees inside. It’s easy to say it should be closed and we don’t know why it was open. That’s my guess. Assuming incompetence on the part of the school who have an impossible job with no money seems less likely to me
Doors are the analogy here. Locking them down Vs tackling problems in schools that makes learning impossible. Who failed these kids who grow up to be shooters? The school or the system that makes these schools anything but places of opportunity?
reinforce the door or support students so they have a reasonable chance at success after leaving that school? All these mass shooters were these students once. Hardly any of them have any level of success or positive things in their lives. I don’t know of many rich, highly educated shooters with a ton of opportunity in their lives
with a key
that they got from a janitor.
so much for all the macho cop breaking down the door bs.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Every cop who tries to pin the blame on the teacher should have his ass fired and not be allowed to be re-hired. Or maybe send them to work with the Ukrainian army on the front line.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I'm not.
another two minutes with these (supposedly) coward cops would have done nothing. again, shifting the blame. of COURSE he would have gotten in another way. I've never ONCE heard of a school shooting being thwarted by locked doors. ffs
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You think if he just said the shooter enter through an unlocked or propped open door people would t be asking why wasn’t it locked closed?
since this is texas, i wonder if they were waiting for the us cavalry to come rolling in to save the day. or the texas rangers.
the police response here was fucking inexcusable.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin