America's Gun Violence #2

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree with all of this.  

Regarding the right to own a gun etc.  I think it's reasonable especially now to regulate the shit out of it. 

That fellow above who commented about inheriting 50-100 guns... what in the absolute fuck?! My daughter will inherit my records.... and whatever other assets I have. The concept of a civilian owning that many guns is remarkable. 

Yeah it's crazy. I had a friend in a similar situation recently. He inherited maybe 20 or so guns and sold them all I think....these weren't assault weapons though, mostly hand guns and rifles.

I had an FB "friend" that posts pictures of their guns every once in awhile...usually about now when gun control discussions start up again. He has this gigantic machine gun that must be Vietnam era.  Now maybe he is just holding that as a collectors piece but I know there are people out there that think they will actually need those at some point to fight off tyranny and the guvmint

HughFreakingDillon

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

there is no "reason" to this argument anymore. there hasn't been for a long time. it's time to progress...move forward....enough is enough. listening and reasoning is what democrats have been doing since columbine. it's done nothing. it's time to ram it down the throats of gun owners. 

the problem here is too many 2Aers seem to think the entire decision rests with them; it doesn't. the vast majority of americans want better gun control. oh, and then there's this:

A 2019 DiMaggio et al. study looked at mass shooting data for 1981 to 2017 and found that mass-shooting fatalities were 70% less likely to occur during the 1994 to 2004 federal ban period, and that the ban was associated with a 0.1% reduction in total firearm homicide fatalities due to the reduction in mass-shootings' contribution to total homicides.[42]

shouldn't that be enough??

I like video games. I used to play them all the time. I grew up with them. if there was ample evidence stating that if video games were banned it would make society 70% safer, I'd be all over banning them. ALL OVER IT. 

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

Yeah people said the same thing when women were finally allowed to vote....and blacks

Interesting segue... Not sure the angle you are going for towards me but it is interesting.

Parksy

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

Quick question about that...  you said before you would never not be a 2A guy.  That doesn't seem reasonable.  How would one reason with someone who has such  a stance? 

Unless it's the 'ban guns completely' issue that you will not budge on. 

So as a 2A guy... would you accept banning or limiting certain guns and ammo?  The AR 15 for example?  Someone posted above how often it is used.  It seems SO REMARKABLY reasonable for America to say "OK, fuck this gun!"  Know what I mean?  Would you support that? 

Also....  as a 2A guy, when you see politicians post photos of their entire family holding their rifles as if they were loved pets...  is that something you're on board with? 

Parksy

Cropduster-80 said:

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree with all of this.  

Regarding the right to own a gun etc.  I think it's reasonable especially now to regulate the shit out of it. 

That fellow above who commented about inheriting 50-100 guns... what in the absolute fuck?! My daughter will inherit my records.... and whatever other assets I have. The concept of a civilian owning that many guns is remarkable. 

I’m telling you it’s normal in a lot of places. I don’t agree with it but that’s what you are dealing with. First step in a discussion is understanding the extent in which guns are part of a lot of places.  I could walk into a bar there and someone else owns more, no question 

no way I’m selling them as I don’t want to add them into the wild. So now I’m sitting on a stockpile I don’t even want 

Would you consider destroying them or selling them to the government as part of a buy back program?  

I respect you not selling them back into the wild. Seems like a very wise choice. 

tempo_n_groove

Parksy said:

In elementary school....  they banned marbles from us because it was a form of gambling. (hilarious when I look back on it now.) 

We accepted and got over it real quick.  Played basketball and wall ball instead. 

Who knows... maybe it was that decision by the principle that has kept me from being a degenerate gambling addict. (insert confused arm raise emoji) 

They also banned those bracelets that you slap on your wrists, the sulfur balls that you rub together and make sparks, water guns, some historical books, Raiders clothing...  So yes, none of these things effected my life either but I am an adult now and can decide if I want to have any of those things.

I remember the PMRC wanting to ban kids from listening to certain music too.

Gern Blansten

The shooter at our school (four years ago) was in a gun nut household. They had several weapons that were kept in an unlocked gun safe.

The kid had apparently been caught walking around the neighborhood carrying a gun at some point as well.  

HughFreakingDillon

this is a staggering statistic: almost like the gun version of billionaires: (why are we catering to such an infinitesimal subset of the population?)

Gun ownership in the U.S. is also concentrated, with 3% of Americans owning half of all guns in the country, according to a 2015 survey from researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Delaware has the nation’s lowest gun ownership rate — 5.2% — while Alaska is at the top with a rate of 61.7%, according to a nationally representative survey of 4,000 U.S. adults from the 50 states and the District of Columbia, published in June 2015 in Injury Prevention.

https://journalistsresource.org/health/gun-buybacks-what-the-research-says/

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

this is a staggering statistic: almost like the gun version of billionaires: (why are we catering to such an infinitesimal subset of the population?)

Gun ownership in the U.S. is also concentrated, with 3% of Americans owning half of all guns in the country, according to a 2015 survey from researchers at Harvard and Northeastern universities. Delaware has the nation’s lowest gun ownership rate — 5.2% — while Alaska is at the top with a rate of 61.7%, according to a nationally representative survey of 4,000 U.S. adults from the 50 states and the District of Columbia, published in June 2015 in Injury Prevention.

https://journalistsresource.org/health/gun-buybacks-what-the-research-says/

crazy...but I believe it. I own a gun but it would take me 20 minutes to get it and load it if I ever needed to defend myself against government tyranny.

Parksy

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

In elementary school....  they banned marbles from us because it was a form of gambling. (hilarious when I look back on it now.) 

We accepted and got over it real quick.  Played basketball and wall ball instead. 

Who knows... maybe it was that decision by the principle that has kept me from being a degenerate gambling addict. (insert confused arm raise emoji) 

They also banned those bracelets that you slap on your wrists, the sulfur balls that you rub together and make sparks, water guns, some historical books, Raiders clothing...  So yes, none of these things effected my life either but I am an adult now and can decide if I want to have any of those things.

I remember the PMRC wanting to ban kids from listening to certain music too.

I have another possibly interesting question / comment.  I don't know enough to throw stats, etc but from what I can gather... many Republican gun enthusiasts share basically the same sentiment as you....  the freedom and right to choose. 

How come that choice doesn't  apply when it comes to abortion? Like the same politicians who support gun owners rights and freedoms to choose guns... don't support a women's right to choose.  Isn't that a double standard?  Not saying that's you because I have no knowledge of your stance... but the politicians seem to make that clear. 

Like....   protect the unborn kids so they  can live.....  and protect the guns even though they're being used to kill the kids. (insert confused arm raise emoji) 

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

In elementary school....  they banned marbles from us because it was a form of gambling. (hilarious when I look back on it now.) 

We accepted and got over it real quick.  Played basketball and wall ball instead. 

Who knows... maybe it was that decision by the principle that has kept me from being a degenerate gambling addict. (insert confused arm raise emoji) 

They also banned those bracelets that you slap on your wrists, the sulfur balls that you rub together and make sparks, water guns, some historical books, Raiders clothing...  So yes, none of these things effected my life either but I am an adult now and can decide if I want to have any of those things.

I remember the PMRC wanting to ban kids from listening to certain music too.

Are you sure the PMRC didn't just want warning stickers placed on albums that alerted parents as to their content? 

Parksy

Here's yet another thought.... to the 2A crowd... 

I read a disturbing stat yesterday that there have bene more mass shootings in America than there have been days in the year of 2022.  

So... given that staggering and what should be utterly embarassing fact.... would 2A people consider a 5 year lift. Like go five years with strict, very strict gun laws all across the board.  Have all the governors, congresspeople, everyone... everyone agree on a stall of guns for five years just to try it out. Would that be reasonable? 

Gern Blansten

Parksy said:

Here's yet another thought.... to the 2A crowd... 

I read a disturbing stat yesterday that there have bene more mass shootings in America than there have been days in the year of 2022.  

So... given that staggering and what should be utterly embarassing fact.... would 2A people consider a 5 year lift. Like go five years with strict, very strict gun laws all across the board.  Have all the governors, congresspeople, everyone... everyone agree on a stall of guns for five years just to try it out. Would that be reasonable? 

we actually tried that and it worked...now we are seeing the after effects of the lifted ban

Cropduster-80

If you have a federal firearm license you can own fully automatic machine guns.  You can’t however own shoulder fired missiles (to my knowledge) so there is a point at which the right to bear arms isn’t absolute.

the key is getting that threshold lower.  Military style assault weapons is a good start.  It’s called an “assault weapon” you can’t claim it to be for defense, unless you change the definition of assault. It’s an offensive weapon no question,  

You’ve already got a cutoff, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the gun debate to center on that as that can and should be negotiable 

HughFreakingDillon

In 2022, more children have been killed in mass shootings than cops have been killed in the line of duty. 

33-20. 

where are the "back the blue" folks for these kids?

tempo_n_groove

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

Quick question about that...  you said before you would never not be a 2A guy.  That doesn't seem reasonable.  How would one reason with someone who has such  a stance? 

Unless it's the 'ban guns completely' issue that you will not budge on. 

So as a 2A guy... would you accept banning or limiting certain guns and ammo?  The AR 15 for example?  Someone posted above how often it is used.  It seems SO REMARKABLY reasonable for America to say "OK, fuck this gun!"  Know what I mean?  Would you support that? 

Also....  as a 2A guy, when you see politicians post photos of their entire family holding their rifles as if they were loved pets...  is that something you're on board with? 
Would you consider destroying them or selling them to the government as part of a buy back program?  

I respect you not selling them back into the wild. Seems like a very wise choice. 

I added both your questions in here above.

I'll always believe in the 2nd amendment.  That doesn't mean I can't be flexible.  That isn't a stance that is unreasonable and rigid.  

Banning guns completely I am not for at all...

Yes and no.  I still want to be able to own it.  All out ban?  No.  Make it harder for me to own, I don't have a problem w that.  I am a law abiding citizen and can do paperwork as long as I don't need to hire a lawyer to fill it out.

So posting photos.  We have taken group photos or single photos.  We didn't put them on Christmas cards and our Social Media accounts, that to me is silly and tacky as hell.  I'd really rather you not know what I had. My sister bought me a book for Christmas years ago of families taking portraits with their firearms.  I thought it was the stupidest thing I ever saw.  I asked her why she sent it to me and she thought I'd like it.  I had to explain that there is some serious disconnect on how you view me, the people in the book and gun ownership...

Destroying them?  No, I said I want to own them.  Buyback from the govt?  If it's an all out ban and my weapon is worthless then yes, I'll sell it back.  Willingly sell them if there isn't a ban, no.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

Parksy said:

Here's yet another thought.... to the 2A crowd... 

I read a disturbing stat yesterday that there have bene more mass shootings in America than there have been days in the year of 2022.  

So... given that staggering and what should be utterly embarassing fact.... would 2A people consider a 5 year lift. Like go five years with strict, very strict gun laws all across the board.  Have all the governors, congresspeople, everyone... everyone agree on a stall of guns for five years just to try it out. Would that be reasonable? 

we actually tried that and it worked...now we are seeing the after effects of the lifted ban

That was an importation ban.  What that did do is drive up the prices of what was already here in the US.  You could still purchase those guns that were banned but at a much inflated price.

I don't see anything wrong w this really, another importation ban.  You would still have local armaments companies that would still be able to make them though or put a moratorium on those too.

As long as I can still keep or purchase something that is here pre ban I am ok with that.

HughFreakingDillon

like I said before....the constitution is like the bible to some folks. it's a 250 year old document. it was meant to be...wait for it...AMMENDED with the times. that amendment was written in a time when it actually had logical implications.  

if the government wanted to enslave you in 2022....it would. no amount of AR15's would save you. 

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

There's no reasonable argument for not banning AR15s. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

like I said before....the constitution is like the bible to some folks. it's a 250 year old document. it was meant to be...wait for it...AMMENDED with the times. that amendment was written in a time when it actually had logical implications.  

if the government wanted to enslave you in 2022....it would. no amount of AR15's would save you. 

exactly...all these backyard militia members have these fantasies of getting their guns out and fighting but they would be droned to death in about five seconds