America's Gun Violence #2

cblock4life

JojoRice said:

I'm a teacher (finishing up my 11th year this week) and my wife gets nervous every time something like this happens. I know 2 different people that have been a part of school shootings.  What little bit they've told me about their experiences is not something that I'd wish on anyone.  

I certainly don't have all the answers to all of these mass shootings that are going on but something does need to be done. At my school, we have 3 full time officers on campus at all times.  

To you, and all the teachers, school service employees, etc. who are PJ members, hope you all never have to face tragedies like this. 

I oversaw the service employees where I worked and on two different occasions officers walked right in two of our elementary schools while cafe and custodial supplies were being delivered.  Right after that I required one person at the door for deliveries that wasn’t allowed to leave the open door until the delivery was over and the door was locked again.  I took the heat for the mistake because I should have known better, which was true.  You almost have to think like they would to keep up. If someone is determined they’ll figure out a way…..the only way to ensure all this ends is to get rid of the guns altogether, and since that won’t happen, we’re stuck being the biggest gun owning assholes in the world. 

dankind

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

What state is that?

Most of them 

it’s like 12 states that require.  Your state is one of them 

Recently, I've seen gun/weapon booths at flea markets Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. It's usually only one or two booths out of maybe 30 booths. I live in Massachusetts, and I have not seen those booths at the flea markets I've been to here; I'm guessing they're not legal in Mass.

And as Chris mentioned, Florida. I grew up in Florida, and it seemed like every other booth there sold weapons back then. And these are bigger flea markets, with hundreds of booths. I can't imagine what it's like these days.

Parksy

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

tempo_n_groove

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

Cropduster-80

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

It’s a reasonable position and where I’m at.

problem is a lot of 2a people one gun becomes a lot of guns.  My dad is one of those guys and a democrat.  I’ll eventually inherit somewhere between 50-100 guns and we’ll over 100,000 rounds of ammo.  Where I grew up that’s normal 

figuring out what to do with that has kept me up at night 

HughFreakingDillon

mcgruff10 said:

I just read that he drove his truck through the front door.

on another note, what hypocrites:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/one-place-wont-guns-wake-033544527.html

One place you won't find guns in the wake of the Texas school massacre? The NRA's upcoming leadership conference in Houston this week.

just watch....some asshole GOP senator is going to put forth a bill to reinforce the schools against "vehicle attacks". 

Parksy

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

Why do you cringe?   It seems reasonable to ask why people love guns after guns are used to kill kids no?  Your answer and explanation is at least an explanation which I get and am thankful for with respect.  I don't agree with it obviously... but I get it.  But why cringe at the question? 

I imagine people wonder why fighting is still a part of hockey.  And while my response probably wouldn't make sense to them much like yours doesn't make a lot of sense to me... I certainly wouldn't cringe at the question. It's a reasonable question. I have much respect for you for answering though.. especially given the bias in this thread. 

Using that analogy... if for whatever reason my fighting in hockey was causing kids to get killed... I would stop fighting in hockey and ask that others do the same. Comparing apples to oranges here but I trust you get what I'm getting at. 

If I could elaborate a bit further and maybe get some more info from you...  the 'nutter' thing actually makes sense to me.  I know of a couple 'preppers' here and to be honest they get a pretty negative reaction.  A lot of people commonly think "Why spend time and money preparing for something that may not happen."  I look upon that and think it makes sense and who  are we to judge really?  But to your point about banning something and having it equate to a removal of rights.  If that removal or better yet I will call it a sacrifice of a right... if that sacrifice of a right means the protection of children isn't that an easy decision?  Or is there a slippery slope I'm missing here? Why is this right so important to maintain especially given the undeniable facts surrounding gun violence in America? 

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

HughFreakingDillon

but banning one particular type isn't taking anything away. keep your hand guns. keep your rifles. put a cap on how many rounds can be fire without reloading.

you can't own a fucking bazooka. you shouldn't be able to own any weapons of war, which is what an AR 15 is. full stop. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

but banning one particular type isn't taking anything away. keep your hand guns. keep your rifles. put a cap on how many rounds can be fire without reloading.

you can't own a fucking bazooka. you shouldn't be able to own any weapons of war, which is what an AR 15 is. full stop. 

exactly....you can defend yourself just fine with a shotgun

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

Cropduster-80

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree.

problem with assault weapons is the knockoffs are cheap. They are generic now, like adhesive bandages vs Band-aids 

bushmasters are assault style and and maybe 800 bucks 

nearly all these shootings use these cheap ones.  At a minimum you could create a minimum price that’s a lot higher than that. Guns are cheap and so you buy lots.  If it was 10k for an assault rifle via a tax, you would have less 

tempo_n_groove

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

Why do you cringe?   It seems reasonable to ask why people love guns after guns are used to kill kids no?  Your answer and explanation is at least an explanation which I get and am thankful for with respect.  I don't agree with it obviously... but I get it.  But why cringe at the question? 

I imagine people wonder why fighting is still a part of hockey.  And while my response probably wouldn't make sense to them much like yours doesn't make a lot of sense to me... I certainly wouldn't cringe at the question. It's a reasonable question. I have much respect for you for answering though.. especially given the bias in this thread. 

Using that analogy... if for whatever reason my fighting in hockey was causing kids to get killed... I would stop fighting in hockey and ask that others do the same. Comparing apples to oranges here but I trust you get what I'm getting at. 

If I could elaborate a bit further and maybe get some more info from you...  the 'nutter' thing actually makes sense to me.  I know of a couple 'preppers' here and to be honest they get a pretty negative reaction.  A lot of people commonly think "Why spend time and money preparing for something that may not happen."  I look upon that and think it makes sense and who  are we to judge really?  But to your point about banning something and having it equate to a removal of rights.  If that removal or better yet I will call it a sacrifice of a right... if that sacrifice of a right means the protection of children isn't that an easy decision?  Or is there a slippery slope I'm missing here? Why is this right so important to maintain especially given the undeniable facts surrounding gun violence in America? 

I should have been more specific about "Cringe".  I cringe at other peoples responses to the "why".  The Don't Tread on Me shirt wearing person.  It always seems that the answers come from an incompetent source.

So I said you can make me jump through hoops just as long as I can still own it.  An all out ban is not my cup of tea.  

I could use old analogies of what other things kill people and we aren't changing those but I'll refrain because then a discussion gets muddled.

Gern Blansten

Cropduster-80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree.

problem with assault weapons is the knockoffs are cheap. They are generic now, like adhesive bandages vs Band-aids 

bushmasters are assault style and and maybe 800 bucks 

nearly all these shootings use these cheap ones.  

In my fantasy all of that shit is banned

I still find it hard to fucking believe that it is more difficult for me to buy Mucinex-D than a fucking gun

Parksy

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree with all of this.  

Regarding the right to own a gun etc.  I think it's reasonable especially now to regulate the shit out of it. 

That fellow above who commented about inheriting 50-100 guns... what in the absolute fuck?! My daughter will inherit my records.... and whatever other assets I have. The concept of a civilian owning that many guns is remarkable. 

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

You lost me at "ban"...

Get used to it because it's coming. At some point most of us will have had enough and you will need something else to play with.

You should try listening and reasoning to people rather than forcing it down one's throat.  That is why the nutters won't let it happen...

Yeah people said the same thing when women were finally allowed to vote....and blacks

Parksy

In elementary school....  they banned marbles from us because it was a form of gambling. (hilarious when I look back on it now.) 

We accepted and got over it real quick.  Played basketball and wall ball instead. 

Who knows... maybe it was that decision by the principle that has kept me from being a degenerate gambling addict. (insert confused arm raise emoji) 

Cropduster-80

Parksy said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

I won't ever stop being one but I'm also not a nutter either.  

If you could, and I know we can't, come to some 50 state agreement on gun laws I would be all for it but you have too many people that want all or nothing on gun control.  That works the other way too as the nutters don't want any more laws at all.

Again.. with respect.. if your stance is that you'll never stop being one...   why is that? 

Just for context here in case you're asking "why is this guy asking me this?"   as a Canadian I don't personally know anyone.. at all who has any 'undying' loyalty to any piece of legislation here. We have four 'fundamental' freedoms in our Charter which is the equivalent of your Constitution. Freedom of Religion, Expression, Assembly, and Association. 

I highly doubt any single person in my family, immediate and extended, even knows that and I doubt any single one of my friends... with the exception of maybe two can tell me what section of the Charter those freedoms are in. 

So when I see and hear about people in America who associate themselves and often pride themselves for being a supporter of a centuries old legislation... it's odd to me.  I'm curious and hoping you can help me understand why that is. 

I am trying to express this without bringing the thunder from the rest of the board members here and having to defend myself from every angle as it's not what I want to exhaust myself with today...

When I hear people asked "Why" also, I cringe sometimes.  I grew up w a family that shot and owned multiple firearms, so there is that.  I was around them and enjoyed them.  Owning and shooting was just another regular occurrence with us, not a big deal.

I do see banning something as taking away a right.  I don't mind jumping through a few hoops just as long as I can still own it.

This one might be part nutter answer...If shit ever hits the fan I do want to be able to be prepared and not have to worry about protection from someone or somewhere else.  

From what I have read, the majority of NRA members even support stronger laws, background checks, etc.  It's just become a GOP mantra to stir up the "don't tread on me" voters by making them fear that the government is coming for their guns.

My fix would be to tax the shit out of ammunition, ban assault weapons....prevent the further sale and manufacture of them except for military use, license all guns and require training just like a drivers license. I don't give two shits about the tyranny argument as that is just fucking complete insanity. I also don't buy the personal protection argument. No one needs an assault weapon to protect their home. 

I agree with all of this.  

Regarding the right to own a gun etc.  I think it's reasonable especially now to regulate the shit out of it. 

That fellow above who commented about inheriting 50-100 guns... what in the absolute fuck?! My daughter will inherit my records.... and whatever other assets I have. The concept of a civilian owning that many guns is remarkable. 

I’m telling you it’s normal in a lot of places. I don’t agree with it but that’s what you are dealing with. First step in a discussion is understanding the extent in which guns are part of a lot of places.  I could walk into a bar there and someone else owns more, no question 

no way I’m selling them as I don’t want to add them into the wild. So now I’m sitting on a stockpile I don’t even want