America's Gun Violence #2

PP193448

mcgruff10 said:

I've always thought these ideas could definitely help:
1.  Mandatory safety training before first firearm purchase.
2. Contact employer/school to see if there are any red flags before initial purchase.
3. Close gun show loophole.
4. More extensive background check.
5. Mag capacity at ten rounds.

Just my .02.  

Agreed.  But there are too many people who want to ban all guns, or have no laws for guns at all. It’s asinine to think that either will be the realistic solution.

pjhawks

Greg Abbott is a piece of shit..  This fucker telling people to put their agendas aside.  Fuck him and his agenda.  

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

here's the real stats. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/

Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 146 different handguns being used in 98 incidents between 1982 and May 2022. These figures are calculated from a total of 128 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 77 percent of mass shootings.

The involvement of semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings

Owing to their use in several high-profile mass shootings, there has been much public discussion over suitability or necessity of assault weapons for the purpose of self-defense. While any definition of assault weapon is contentious, semi-automatic rifles are generally the main focus of debates around this issue. Since 1985 there has been a known total 50 mass shootings involving rifles, mostly semi-automatics. This figure is underreported though, as it excludes the multiple semi-automatic (and fully automatic) rifles used in the 2017 Las Vegas Strip massacre – the worst mass shooting in U.S. history, killing 58 and wounding 546. In fact, semi-automatic rifles were featured in four of the five deadliest mass shootings, being used in the Orlando nightclub massacre, Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and Texas First Baptist Church massacre

the problem with the above stat about handguns being the most used in mass shootings, is that "mass shooting" encompasses any shooting that involves 4 or 5 or more casualties, which, for the most part, unless it involves a wealthy white family, no one hears about those. we are obviously talking about "super mass shootings" (my term for purposes of this discussion), where a dozen or two dozens are killed. Often children. Church goers. Concert goers. Grocery shoppers. 

CHILDREN. like, seriously. Freaking CHILDREN. 18 kids wouldn't have been killed if an AR15 didn't exist in its current capability. If you can get an AR15 that is CAPABLE of housing a cartridge with more than 5 rounds, you are still going to have these issues. people will still get their hands on the cartridge or modify it or whatever. you get rid of the delivery system; much more difficult to use it. 

that's like making tanks legal but the ammunition illegal. someone will find a way to get that ammo for it. the tank? not so much. 

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/morningmika/status/1529520002478612485

Beto O'Rourke just lit into Abbot

pjhawks

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/morningmika/status/1529520002478612485

Beto O'Rourke just lit into Abbot

It was great to see

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/danielmarans/status/1529519488391069697

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Eugene Stoner said that?

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

You missed the point. 

Why ban AR15 when they can just buy any dozen of other similar guns instead?
So don’t ban a gun based on name or what it looks like. Ban the features you don’t like the gun.

If the result is you get a gun that looks like an AR15, but has a fixed magazine of 5 rounds and doesn’t have the capacity to kill dozens of people, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Not AR-15’s.  Assault weapons. 

There are a ton of AR-15 knockoffs.  Banning a model just means it’s tweaked soit’s different enough to get around a ban.

these shooters are using cheap bushmasters mostly. Banning an AR-15 keeps those legal .  XM-15 is one 

AR-15 = AR-15 and everything resembling one...do I really need to have all the details at this point? I certainly didn't mean ban all AR-15s but not look a likes

Yes. Because saying you want to ban an AR-5 means you want to by 1 specific rifle. If that’s not what you want, say ban assault rifles. There’s plenty of assault rifles with the same capabilities of an AR15 that don’t “resemble” and AR15.

Its like saying I want to ban menthol cigarettes when I really mean ban all tobacco products. There’s a big difference.

PP193448

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

You missed the point. 

Why ban AR15 when they can just buy any dozen of other similar guns instead?
So don’t ban a gun based on name or what it looks like. Ban the features you don’t like the gun.

If the result is you get a gun that looks like an AR15, but has a fixed magazine of 5 rounds and doesn’t have the capacity to kill dozens of people, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

I own guns.  But there should be stricter laws for owning them.  Plus very harsh penalties for breaking those laws.  I would absolutely argue that the short barrel foldable stock AR-15 style guns should be discussed about being banned for civilian use.  The only reason for such is close quarter battle and concealment, neither of which should apply to any civilian.  Longer traditional barrels are very hard to conceal, and are not meant to do so.  Restricting magazine capacity is a great idea, but not just for AR.  There are handguns that do have 21 round clips… But the anti gun nuts only want guns completely banned, and the crazy gun zealots don’t want any restrictions.  We need to talk about reasonable solutions!!!

Oh, and please tell the criminals that they need to follow the laws too, and not use high capacity mags.  And the government to not permit criminals to be released from jail 19-20 times and carry on the subways…

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

https://twitter.com/danielmarans/status/1529519488391069697

More passion about shutting him down and scolding him about "this is not the place to do that" then they have for protecting the elementary school aged kids in their towns.

Fuck those people

cincybearcat

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Not AR-15’s.  Assault weapons. 

There are a ton of AR-15 knockoffs.  Banning a model just means it’s tweaked soit’s different enough to get around a ban.

these shooters are using cheap bushmasters mostly. Banning an AR-15 keeps those legal .  XM-15 is one 

AR-15 = AR-15 and everything resembling one...do I really need to have all the details at this point? I certainly didn't mean ban all AR-15s but not look a likes

Yes. Because saying you want to ban an AR-5 means you want to by 1 specific rifle. If that’s not what you want, say ban assault rifles. There’s plenty of assault rifles with the same capabilities of an AR15 that don’t “resemble” and AR15.

Its like saying I want to ban menthol cigarettes when I really mean ban all tobacco products. There’s a big difference.

And here comes the debate about semantics to avoid the reality that 19 kids just got killed because an 18 year old had access to a weapon that could kill 21 people in the matter of seconds.

tempo_n_groove

PP193448 said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

You missed the point. 

Why ban AR15 when they can just buy any dozen of other similar guns instead?
So don’t ban a gun based on name or what it looks like. Ban the features you don’t like the gun.

If the result is you get a gun that looks like an AR15, but has a fixed magazine of 5 rounds and doesn’t have the capacity to kill dozens of people, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

I own guns.  But there should be stricter laws for owning them.  Plus very harsh penalties for breaking those laws.  I would absolutely argue that the short barrel foldable stock AR-15 style guns should be discussed about being banned for civilian use.  The only reason for such is close quarter battle and concealment, neither of which should apply to any civilian.  Longer traditional barrels are very hard to conceal, and are not meant to do so.  Restricting magazine capacity is a great idea, but not just for AR.  There are handguns that do have 21 round clips… But the anti gun nuts only want guns completely banned, and the crazy gun zealots don’t want any restrictions.  We need to talk about reasonable solutions!!!

There are handguns w 50 round clips but nobody is buying those.

Everyone wants to ban things.  If you make it a little harder to get and maybe cost a little more then 99% of these mass shootings would stop.

If you want to stop gun deaths in general then you'd have to ban every firearm out there.

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Eugene Stoner said that?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-ar-15-inventor-speaks-out-n593356

For civilian use....yes

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Not AR-15’s.  Assault weapons. 

There are a ton of AR-15 knockoffs.  Banning a model just means it’s tweaked soit’s different enough to get around a ban.

these shooters are using cheap bushmasters mostly. Banning an AR-15 keeps those legal .  XM-15 is one 

AR-15 = AR-15 and everything resembling one...do I really need to have all the details at this point? I certainly didn't mean ban all AR-15s but not look a likes

Yes. Because saying you want to ban an AR-5 means you want to by 1 specific rifle. If that’s not what you want, say ban assault rifles. There’s plenty of assault rifles with the same capabilities of an AR15 that don’t “resemble” and AR15.

Its like saying I want to ban menthol cigarettes when I really mean ban all tobacco products. There’s a big difference.

And here comes the debate about semantics to avoid the reality that 19 kids just got killed because an 18 year old had access to a weapon that could kill 21 people in the matter of seconds.

yep...every fucking time. At least they haven't suggested that we think the "AR" in AR-15 means assault rifle yet but that should be coming soon.

PP193448

tempo_n_groove said:

PP193448 said:

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

You missed the point. 

Why ban AR15 when they can just buy any dozen of other similar guns instead?
So don’t ban a gun based on name or what it looks like. Ban the features you don’t like the gun.

If the result is you get a gun that looks like an AR15, but has a fixed magazine of 5 rounds and doesn’t have the capacity to kill dozens of people, wouldn’t that be a good thing?

I own guns.  But there should be stricter laws for owning them.  Plus very harsh penalties for breaking those laws.  I would absolutely argue that the short barrel foldable stock AR-15 style guns should be discussed about being banned for civilian use.  The only reason for such is close quarter battle and concealment, neither of which should apply to any civilian.  Longer traditional barrels are very hard to conceal, and are not meant to do so.  Restricting magazine capacity is a great idea, but not just for AR.  There are handguns that do have 21 round clips… But the anti gun nuts only want guns completely banned, and the crazy gun zealots don’t want any restrictions.  We need to talk about reasonable solutions!!!

There are handguns w 50 round clips but nobody is buying those.

Everyone wants to ban things.  If you make it a little harder to get and maybe cost a little more then 99% of these mass shootings would stop.

If you want to stop gun deaths in general then you'd have to ban every firearm out there.

What scared me too, was the people who took the firearms class that i took.  There are definitely people out there that should not be trying to shoot a gun… It might be a Constitutional right, but OMG.  You need to pair that right with an active brain and IQ level…
And to have some states with no requirement for carry conceal is scary.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

Parksy said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

mace1229 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

What kind of country and citizenry allows this to continue to happen? 

a country in which the supreme court didn’t even rule on an individuals right to own a gun until 2008

Yep, that’s true.if you actually read the second amendment it makes more sense as to why an individual right had never been recognised. I suspect a lot of pro gun people don’t actually read it though 

the old west had more gun control than today. Blanket bans inside cities was common 

an individual right to own a gun has been recognised for less time than a right to an abortion. Saying it’s set in stone or not open to revision isn’t true 

That depends on how you define gun control. The gun laws back then more often applied to open or concealed carrying in public. But purchasing and tracking firearms was much more free. Today you don’t have to register a gun made before 1898, and pretty much any other laws that apply like a wait period. I always assumed that’s because that’s when they started keeping records, but I could be wrong.

A lot of those restrictions today, like waiting period, registration, background checks are bypassed by private sales or gun shows 

so basically laws already in place that have pretty broad agreement have loopholes so large it renders the laws pointless 

if I’m a crazy person who would get flagged in a background check, illl just go to a gun show instead 

I didn’t even know that gunshow loophole was a thing because all the states I’ve lived in have the same requirements at a gunshow or private party saw as a gun store would.
I think the number of states with that loophole is getting smaller.

I could go to a flea market this weekend and come back with an arsenal without ever even showing anyone my ID.

I did that in Florida when I lived there and thought that was nuts and I'm a 2A guy...

Question... without trying to sound like a doosh... it's a legit question 

What will it take for you to no longer be a "2A Guy?"  And for my own understanding... what makes you a 2A guy? 

What do you mean by “2A guy”? Do you mean stricter laws, or just owning guns in general?

I see the same circle every time this comes up. Most gun owners are okay with, or even want stronger gun laws and common sense laws. But when we disagree with 1 thing people lose their mind. 

We don’t need to ban AR15s. One, from my understanding, they aren’t used in all these mass shootings which they are usually reported to have been used. That list that was posted earlier isn’t accurate. So it’s not like banning 1 gun is going to solve much. AR15 has become a common term to basically refer to assault rifles. It’s like saying Kleenex when you need a tissue.

Ive said before ban features. Ban high capacity magazines, or even detachable magazines. You can have an AR15, but with a fixed magazine of 5 rounds it poses a much smaller threat. But too often people want to ban a gun or features based off what it looks like and not the function.

Yeah we need to ban AR-15s....even the guy that invented them says so

Eugene Stoner said that?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/family-ar-15-inventor-speaks-out-n593356

For civilian use....yes

Ahhh yes that one.  The family said it, not him.  When he was alive they use to use him as an expert witness on AR-15's vs an assault rifle also if I am not mistaken for court cases.

mace1229

Silly me to think that everyone who keeps claiming they want to ban AR15s, many of whom know very little about guns, actually don’t mean ban AR15s.
And semantics are important. If you want to ban assault rifles, then you need to be able to clearly define what an assault rifle is. But bringing up these questions usually just gets criticism. But yet only 1 side ever gets blamed for lack of change.

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Silly me to think that everyone who keeps claiming they want to ban AR15s, many of whom know very little about guns, actually don’t mean ban AR15s.
And semantics are important. If you want to ban assault rifles, then you need to be able to clearly define what an assault rifle is. But bringing up these questions usually just gets criticism. But yet only 1 side ever gets blamed for lack of change.

LOL....we aren't writing legislation on these boards. Silly to me to think that some of you can't make that connection.