The elephant in the room....Covid and these Pearl Jam shows

PJNB

davidos said:

another major bummer of my breakthrough COVID from SHN is my Ohana Encore trip is cancelled and there is no way to get a refund on the passes…

They are giving refunds. 

9.    HELP. I BOUGHT A TICKET AND I TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID-19. CAN I GET A REFUND?

• Yes. Please send us a copy of your positiveCOVID-19 test result, your order number and specific ticket details to order-support@frontgatetickets.com
• Additionally, if you’ve had COVID-19 or are still in the 14-day isolation window, you are also eligible for a refund. Please send us a copy of your positive COVID-19 test result, your order number and specific ticket details to order-support@frontgatetickets.com
• You MUST request a refund by Sunday, September27th (Ohana Festival) or Saturday, October 1st (Ohana Encore).

JH6056

PJNB said:

davidos said:

another major bummer of my breakthrough COVID from SHN is my Ohana Encore trip is cancelled and there is no way to get a refund on the passes…

They are giving refunds. 

9.    HELP. I BOUGHT A TICKET AND I TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID-19. CAN I GET A REFUND?

• Yes. Please send us a copy of your positiveCOVID-19 test result, your order number and specific ticket details to order-support@frontgatetickets.com
• Additionally, if you’ve had COVID-19 or are still in the 14-day isolation window, you are also eligible for a refund. Please send us a copy of your positive COVID-19 test result, your order number and specific ticket details to order-support@frontgatetickets.com
• You MUST request a refund by Sunday, September27th (Ohana Festival) or Saturday, October 1st (Ohana Encore).

Bummer that you can't go Davidos but cool that you can still get a refund if you ask for it by Saturday!  Send in those docs ASAP....  Good lookin out PJNB!

davidos

^^thank you!

jdopj

lastexit78 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There is no way I'd go into a crowd where hardly anyone is wearing masks right now. Masks should be mandatory IMO, even where vaccine cards are being checked.

I'm glad they are checking vaccine records, but I'm disturbed to know that they got so lax about it at some point - they were basically just waving people in it sounds like, at least at one entrance. Not cool.

I’m all for better verification standards but at some point a lot of these other measures need to be scaled back. There have been multiple studies showing outdoor spread is basically non existent, for me that data along with confidence in the vaccine makes me more than comfortable attending an outdoor show. It’s a bummer to hear of breakthrough infections but the overwhelming evidence still says they are mild for the most part. I have two friends who are nurses and neither have seen an vaccinated patient. I also know of a family friend who ended up in the hospital, vaccinated. So it obviously happens, but at some point people have to analyze their own risk and make a decision they are comfortable with. Millions of baseball, football, soccer, and music fans have been gathering outdoors for months, many unvaccinated. I haven’t heard of any super spreader events. Pretty sure the media which is drilling for fear 24/7 would have certainly found them. Someone dies from a DUI accident every 52 minutes in the US, should we bring back prohibition? More children have died from gun violence in Chicago this year than of COVID in the US since the pandemic began. Yet basically no action gets taken. Danger lurks everywhere. I hope humans learn to live freely and embrace life again as they should. We have endured far worse than this pandemic and bounced back. I know I’ll be bouncing back Saturday night enjoying the show, not looking around worrying about what fellow fan might infect me with a breakthrough case. 

Couldn’t agree more!!!

HughFreakingDillon

davidos said:

another major bummer of my breakthrough COVID from SHN is my Ohana Encore trip is cancelled and there is no way to get a refund on the passes…

sucks you can't go. sorry to hear that. 

RmLurker

At Ohana, they checked our vaxx card and ID both days. I personally saw them deny entrance to a guy that didn't have a vaxx card, so that was good. 10ish% of people had masks on, and they were giving out masks on request. The compliance of mask wearing on the shuttle bus was 90%. They made you put one on before you were allowed on, but once on the bus drivers didn't even look up. I was phone tapping for food and merch, and everywhere I went had that option. Overall as a vaxxed person I felt pretty good there. I didn't pack into the lawn, but sat in the bleachers. It was a great weekend, and I'm looking forward to Encore weekend.

jdopj

RmLurker said:

At Ohana, they checked our vaxx card and ID both days. I personally saw them deny entrance to a guy that didn't have a vaxx card, so that was good. 10ish% of people had masks on, and they were giving out masks on request. The compliance of mask wearing on the shuttle bus was 90%. They made you put one on before you were allowed on, but once on the bus drivers didn't even look up. I was phone tapping for food and merch, and everywhere I went had that option. Overall as a vaxxed person I felt pretty good there. I didn't pack into the lawn, but sat in the bleachers. It was a great weekend, and I'm looking forward to Encore weekend.

Vax card on phone OK?

RmLurker

jdopj said:

RmLurker said:

At Ohana, they checked our vaxx card and ID both days. I personally saw them deny entrance to a guy that didn't have a vaxx card, so that was good. 10ish% of people had masks on, and they were giving out masks on request. The compliance of mask wearing on the shuttle bus was 90%. They made you put one on before you were allowed on, but once on the bus drivers didn't even look up. I was phone tapping for food and merch, and everywhere I went had that option. Overall as a vaxxed person I felt pretty good there. I didn't pack into the lawn, but sat in the bleachers. It was a great weekend, and I'm looking forward to Encore weekend.

Vax card on phone OK?

Yes. I had a pic.

PJ_Soul

lastexit78 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There is no way I'd go into a crowd where hardly anyone is wearing masks right now. Masks should be mandatory IMO, even where vaccine cards are being checked.

I'm glad they are checking vaccine records, but I'm disturbed to know that they got so lax about it at some point - they were basically just waving people in it sounds like, at least at one entrance. Not cool.

I’m all for better verification standards but at some point a lot of these other measures need to be scaled back. There have been multiple studies showing outdoor spread is basically non existent, for me that data along with confidence in the vaccine makes me more than comfortable attending an outdoor show. It’s a bummer to hear of breakthrough infections but the overwhelming evidence still says they are mild for the most part. I have two friends who are nurses and neither have seen an vaccinated patient. I also know of a family friend who ended up in the hospital, vaccinated. So it obviously happens, but at some point people have to analyze their own risk and make a decision they are comfortable with. Millions of baseball, football, soccer, and music fans have been gathering outdoors for months, many unvaccinated. I haven’t heard of any super spreader events. Pretty sure the media which is drilling for fear 24/7 would have certainly found them. Someone dies from a DUI accident every 52 minutes in the US, should we bring back prohibition? More children have died from gun violence in Chicago this year than of COVID in the US since the pandemic began. Yet basically no action gets taken. Danger lurks everywhere. I hope humans learn to live freely and embrace life again as they should. We have endured far worse than this pandemic and bounced back. I know I’ll be bouncing back Saturday night enjoying the show, not looking around worrying about what fellow fan might infect me with a breakthrough case. 

At some point... Not now. Outdoor spread is almost nonexistent under normal circumstances, but not so much when people are crammed together like sardines and basically yelling and singing in each other's faces for hours. Anyway, I wouldn't do it. I do think masks should still be mandated for those conditions. We are at the peak of a 4th wave after all, and there are still too many people who aren't vaccinated.

And I think comparing the numbers of deaths like you just did is meaningless, because the death rates from COVID are WITH all the precautions. WITH masks and a lot of physical distancing, etc. The rates would be WAY higher without those precautions. And that is precisely why I think those precautions are still needed at this stage of the pandemic.

curmudgeoness

jdopj said:

RmLurker said:

At Ohana, they checked our vaxx card and ID both days. I personally saw them deny entrance to a guy that didn't have a vaxx card, so that was good. 10ish% of people had masks on, and they were giving out masks on request. The compliance of mask wearing on the shuttle bus was 90%. They made you put one on before you were allowed on, but once on the bus drivers didn't even look up. I was phone tapping for food and merch, and everywhere I went had that option. Overall as a vaxxed person I felt pretty good there. I didn't pack into the lawn, but sat in the bleachers. It was a great weekend, and I'm looking forward to Encore weekend.

Vax card on phone OK?

Yes, and so is QR code on phone, if you are from NY/CA/ other places that have digital records. I used my QR code from CA dept of health, no problem.

curmudgeoness

davidos said:

another major bummer of my breakthrough COVID from SHN is my Ohana Encore trip is cancelled and there is no way to get a refund on the passes…

Since the refund question already has been answered, let me be the -- second? -- person to thank you for doing the right thing, even though missing out on this trip sucks.

I'm hoping that one positive takeaway from this pandemic will be a change in how illness/sick days are handled. I'm one of those lucky people for whom a cold often turns into something much worse that lingers for eight weeks or so. I got a pneumonia vaccine in my late 40s because things had gotten so bad that I needed an inhaler whenever I caught a cold. I asked people to stay home when sick, and was told "I don't want to miss work/ use my sick days for a cold! Sucks to be you!" Now that WFH is more of an option and more people (not all, but more) take communicable diseases seriously, perhaps there will be fewer people out and about, willfully spreading colds and influenza. 

lastexit78

PJ_Soul said:

lastexit78 said:

PJ_Soul said:

There is no way I'd go into a crowd where hardly anyone is wearing masks right now. Masks should be mandatory IMO, even where vaccine cards are being checked.

I'm glad they are checking vaccine records, but I'm disturbed to know that they got so lax about it at some point - they were basically just waving people in it sounds like, at least at one entrance. Not cool.

I’m all for better verification standards but at some point a lot of these other measures need to be scaled back. There have been multiple studies showing outdoor spread is basically non existent, for me that data along with confidence in the vaccine makes me more than comfortable attending an outdoor show. It’s a bummer to hear of breakthrough infections but the overwhelming evidence still says they are mild for the most part. I have two friends who are nurses and neither have seen an vaccinated patient. I also know of a family friend who ended up in the hospital, vaccinated. So it obviously happens, but at some point people have to analyze their own risk and make a decision they are comfortable with. Millions of baseball, football, soccer, and music fans have been gathering outdoors for months, many unvaccinated. I haven’t heard of any super spreader events. Pretty sure the media which is drilling for fear 24/7 would have certainly found them. Someone dies from a DUI accident every 52 minutes in the US, should we bring back prohibition? More children have died from gun violence in Chicago this year than of COVID in the US since the pandemic began. Yet basically no action gets taken. Danger lurks everywhere. I hope humans learn to live freely and embrace life again as they should. We have endured far worse than this pandemic and bounced back. I know I’ll be bouncing back Saturday night enjoying the show, not looking around worrying about what fellow fan might infect me with a breakthrough case. 

At some point... Not now. Outdoor spread is almost nonexistent under normal circumstances, but not so much when people are crammed together like sardines and basically yelling and singing in each other's faces for hours. Anyway, I wouldn't do it. I do think masks should still be mandated for those conditions. We are at the peak of a 4th wave after all, and there are still too many people who aren't vaccinated.

And I think comparing the numbers of deaths like you just did is meaningless, because the death rates from COVID are WITH all the precautions. WITH masks and a lot of physical distancing, etc. The rates would be WAY higher without those precautions. And that is precisely why I think those precautions are still needed at this stage of the pandemic.

I was on the fence with this show, intend on lurking in the back of the crowd and certainly not clustered up front. I would also prefer they postpone the spring tour till 2023 if current conditions persist. So I think we probably agree on a lot. But at some point we have done all we can. I work from home 5 days a week, not my preference. I don’t make unnecessary trips to the grocery store, I’ve eaten in a restaurant once since the pandemic begun. I have enjoyed some baseball games but other than that I’ve avoided crowds. Got vaccinated when it was my turn. Did everything as I was told, then a few weeks ago I turned on the tv and saw a hundred thousand screaming fans at a college football game, started to think why do they get to enjoy life while I continue sacrificing mine? I’ll continue to do what’s right, whether it’s convincing friends and family to get vaccinated to working in isolation to wearing my mask indoors. But this weekend I’m enjoying life and won’t for a minute feel guilty doing so. Also on a positive note covid numbers are trending in the right direction in California. 10 times as many people are getting vaccinated than infected each day. We are winning the war, just gonna take a while to climb this mountain. 

bbiggs

I think the back is the new front.  Who has the Sharpie?

HughFreakingDillon

bbiggs said:

I think the back is the new front.  Who has the Sharpie?

haha, brilliant. 

Go Beavers

JH6056 said:

Go Beavers said:

i got id said:

Very few people wearing masks at Ohana. Wish more people would mask up

Masks are for indoors in poorly ventilated spaces for short periods of time. Their effectiveness is meaningless outdoors. Unfortunately, ventilation was never emphasized enough and it's one of the most important variables with regard to spreading the Covids.

I disagree that masks are meaningless outside in a dense crowd. If I can smell someone's perfume or body odor (yes, body odor!) for an entire band set of 40 - 60 min because the person is standing close enough/the air is mostly drifting from them to me, why isn't it possible for me to breathe their respiratory droplets many times over the course of that 40 min?

And for those right behind those on the rail, that's probably the most densely populated section of any festival and many of those folks are standng together for HOURS.  Why is transmission in that situation so highly unlikely in your opinion that masks would be useless? They felt very useful to me.

Lastly, don't forget that most of the respiratory particulate studies weren't done in the GA pits of festivals.  Once the pandemic got going, "crowds" were not much of a thing other than those funerals and parties that were super-spreader events (and yes mostly indoors at the time).  But 15,000 people with many of them close up at the front of the stage... masks felt very helpful to me.

[Edited to add:]
One major super-spreader activity indentified early in Covid was singing choirs. They figured out that that emoting, that singing and projecting one's voice, also projected the virus. Guess what a BUNCH OF PEOPLE standing together for their favorite band do? They sing their asses off.  So that's another good reason to mask up if in close quarters, even outside. Singing & shouting can be like coughing in terms of projecting particles & the virus out.

If someone is blowing Covids, a mask indoors helps keep the virus closer to the mask wearer since it can’t disperse very well. Outdoors, the virus is going to disperse essentially the same whether or not a person has a mask on. 

steven87

bbiggs said:

I think the back is the new front.  Who has the Sharpie?

Let’s start at 18,000 and work backwards. 

F Me In The Brain

Go Beavers said:

JH6056 said:

Go Beavers said:

i got id said:

Very few people wearing masks at Ohana. Wish more people would mask up

Masks are for indoors in poorly ventilated spaces for short periods of time. Their effectiveness is meaningless outdoors. Unfortunately, ventilation was never emphasized enough and it's one of the most important variables with regard to spreading the Covids.

I disagree that masks are meaningless outside in a dense crowd. If I can smell someone's perfume or body odor (yes, body odor!) for an entire band set of 40 - 60 min because the person is standing close enough/the air is mostly drifting from them to me, why isn't it possible for me to breathe their respiratory droplets many times over the course of that 40 min?

And for those right behind those on the rail, that's probably the most densely populated section of any festival and many of those folks are standng together for HOURS.  Why is transmission in that situation so highly unlikely in your opinion that masks would be useless? They felt very useful to me.

Lastly, don't forget that most of the respiratory particulate studies weren't done in the GA pits of festivals.  Once the pandemic got going, "crowds" were not much of a thing other than those funerals and parties that were super-spreader events (and yes mostly indoors at the time).  But 15,000 people with many of them close up at the front of the stage... masks felt very helpful to me.

[Edited to add:]
One major super-spreader activity indentified early in Covid was singing choirs. They figured out that that emoting, that singing and projecting one's voice, also projected the virus. Guess what a BUNCH OF PEOPLE standing together for their favorite band do? They sing their asses off.  So that's another good reason to mask up if in close quarters, even outside. Singing & shouting can be like coughing in terms of projecting particles & the virus out.

If someone is blowing Covids, a mask indoors helps keep the virus closer to the mask wearer since it can’t disperse very well. Outdoors, the virus is going to disperse essentially the same whether or not a person has a mask on. 

Wait, someone is blowing covids?

JH6056

Go Beavers said:

JH6056 said:

Go Beavers said:

i got id said:

Very few people wearing masks at Ohana. Wish more people would mask up

Masks are for indoors in poorly ventilated spaces for short periods of time. Their effectiveness is meaningless outdoors. Unfortunately, ventilation was never emphasized enough and it's one of the most important variables with regard to spreading the Covids.

I disagree that masks are meaningless outside in a dense crowd. If I can smell someone's perfume or body odor (yes, body odor!) for an entire band set of 40 - 60 min because the person is standing close enough/the air is mostly drifting from them to me, why isn't it possible for me to breathe their respiratory droplets many times over the course of that 40 min?

And for those right behind those on the rail, that's probably the most densely populated section of any festival and many of those folks are standng together for HOURS.  Why is transmission in that situation so highly unlikely in your opinion that masks would be useless? They felt very useful to me.

Lastly, don't forget that most of the respiratory particulate studies weren't done in the GA pits of festivals.  Once the pandemic got going, "crowds" were not much of a thing other than those funerals and parties that were super-spreader events (and yes mostly indoors at the time).  But 15,000 people with many of them close up at the front of the stage... masks felt very helpful to me.

[Edited to add:]
One major super-spreader activity indentified early in Covid was singing choirs. They figured out that that emoting, that singing and projecting one's voice, also projected the virus. Guess what a BUNCH OF PEOPLE standing together for their favorite band do? They sing their asses off.  So that's another good reason to mask up if in close quarters, even outside. Singing & shouting can be like coughing in terms of projecting particles & the virus out.

If someone is blowing Covids, a mask indoors helps keep the virus closer to the mask wearer since it can’t disperse very well. Outdoors, the virus is going to disperse essentially the same whether or not a person has a mask on. 

Ok, but to the person trying not to CATCH Covid, it matters if they're wearing a mask or not if the virus is dispersing. Surely you are not saying that to the person standing near the person singing, either with or without a mask, has same risk of catching it whether they wear a mask or not? Because that would plainly clearly be wrong.  

I'm not expecting mask mandates for outside shows anytime soon, but I sure as hell am going to wear a mask outside if I'm in a pretty decent crowd of people.  Vaxxed, allegedly vaxxed, or questionably vaxxed, I'm wearing a mask. And it is safer that way, though nothing is 100A% foolproof on this if you're around Covid positive people.

HughFreakingDillon

F Me In The Brain said:

Go Beavers said:

JH6056 said:

Go Beavers said:

i got id said:

Very few people wearing masks at Ohana. Wish more people would mask up

Masks are for indoors in poorly ventilated spaces for short periods of time. Their effectiveness is meaningless outdoors. Unfortunately, ventilation was never emphasized enough and it's one of the most important variables with regard to spreading the Covids.

I disagree that masks are meaningless outside in a dense crowd. If I can smell someone's perfume or body odor (yes, body odor!) for an entire band set of 40 - 60 min because the person is standing close enough/the air is mostly drifting from them to me, why isn't it possible for me to breathe their respiratory droplets many times over the course of that 40 min?

And for those right behind those on the rail, that's probably the most densely populated section of any festival and many of those folks are standng together for HOURS.  Why is transmission in that situation so highly unlikely in your opinion that masks would be useless? They felt very useful to me.

Lastly, don't forget that most of the respiratory particulate studies weren't done in the GA pits of festivals.  Once the pandemic got going, "crowds" were not much of a thing other than those funerals and parties that were super-spreader events (and yes mostly indoors at the time).  But 15,000 people with many of them close up at the front of the stage... masks felt very helpful to me.

[Edited to add:]
One major super-spreader activity indentified early in Covid was singing choirs. They figured out that that emoting, that singing and projecting one's voice, also projected the virus. Guess what a BUNCH OF PEOPLE standing together for their favorite band do? They sing their asses off.  So that's another good reason to mask up if in close quarters, even outside. Singing & shouting can be like coughing in terms of projecting particles & the virus out.

If someone is blowing Covids, a mask indoors helps keep the virus closer to the mask wearer since it can’t disperse very well. Outdoors, the virus is going to disperse essentially the same whether or not a person has a mask on. 

Wait, someone is blowing covids?

*changes name to covids* 

JH6056

HughFreakingDillon said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Go Beavers said:

JH6056 said:

Go Beavers said:

i got id said:

Very few people wearing masks at Ohana. Wish more people would mask up

Masks are for indoors in poorly ventilated spaces for short periods of time. Their effectiveness is meaningless outdoors. Unfortunately, ventilation was never emphasized enough and it's one of the most important variables with regard to spreading the Covids.

I disagree that masks are meaningless outside in a dense crowd. If I can smell someone's perfume or body odor (yes, body odor!) for an entire band set of 40 - 60 min because the person is standing close enough/the air is mostly drifting from them to me, why isn't it possible for me to breathe their respiratory droplets many times over the course of that 40 min?

And for those right behind those on the rail, that's probably the most densely populated section of any festival and many of those folks are standng together for HOURS.  Why is transmission in that situation so highly unlikely in your opinion that masks would be useless? They felt very useful to me.

Lastly, don't forget that most of the respiratory particulate studies weren't done in the GA pits of festivals.  Once the pandemic got going, "crowds" were not much of a thing other than those funerals and parties that were super-spreader events (and yes mostly indoors at the time).  But 15,000 people with many of them close up at the front of the stage... masks felt very helpful to me.

[Edited to add:]
One major super-spreader activity indentified early in Covid was singing choirs. They figured out that that emoting, that singing and projecting one's voice, also projected the virus. Guess what a BUNCH OF PEOPLE standing together for their favorite band do? They sing their asses off.  So that's another good reason to mask up if in close quarters, even outside. Singing & shouting can be like coughing in terms of projecting particles & the virus out.

If someone is blowing Covids, a mask indoors helps keep the virus closer to the mask wearer since it can’t disperse very well. Outdoors, the virus is going to disperse essentially the same whether or not a person has a mask on. 

Wait, someone is blowing covids?

*changes name to covids* 

Y'all are so wrong!