Viruses / Vaccines

JeBurkhardt

Merkin Baller said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

How about a state law from a republican legislature restricting private business' right to choose who they do & don't want to serve? 

https://www.austin360.com/story/entertainment/dining/restaurant-reviews/2021/08/10/launderette-fresas-vaccines/5555249001/

Not allowing people the personal freedom to kill themselves, others, and perpetuate terrible behavior by getting fucking hammered and driving home without a damn mask on.

What is the world coming to!

People fought for my right to get smashed without a mask on and drive home! 

Land of the free and home of the brave.  Yeah, right!

  

Nothing screams conservative government like *checks notes* regulating the shit out of private business. 

This! The party of small government, until people try to do something they don't approve of or like. 

mrussel1

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

How about a state law from a republican legislature restricting private business' right to choose who they do & don't want to serve? 

https://www.austin360.com/story/entertainment/dining/restaurant-reviews/2021/08/10/launderette-fresas-vaccines/5555249001/

Not allowing people the personal freedom to kill themselves, others, and perpetuate terrible behavior by getting fucking hammered and driving home without a damn mask on.

What is the world coming to!

People fought for my right to get smashed without a mask on and drive home! 

Land of the free and home of the brave.  Yeah, right!

  

Nothing screams conservative government like *checks notes* regulating the shit out of private business. 

This! The party of small government, until people try to do something they don't approve of or like. 

Historically, they have advocated for local gov't.  In other words, the best gov't is the one that is closest to the people. Yet TX and FL gov continue to strong arm, threaten and pass laws that take away that ability from their local gov't in their state.  

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

This isn't the traditional stance of Republicans,  nor is their stance on gay rights consistent with personal freedom.  It's total crap.

who said anything about "traditional" republicans? or republicans being consistent? lol

Then it's not being for personal freedom.  That's a ruse.  It means they are either against vaccines or against Democrats (or likely against D's therefore against vaccines).

wait. you said personal freedom isn't the stance of traditional republicans. I said I wasn't talking about traditional republicans. then you said "then it's not about personal freedom". so you don't believe ANY republican has a legitimate stance of personal freedoms? it's all a ruse, no matter who it is or their reasoning?

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

This isn't the traditional stance of Republicans,  nor is their stance on gay rights consistent with personal freedom.  It's total crap.

who said anything about "traditional" republicans? or republicans being consistent? lol

Then it's not being for personal freedom.  That's a ruse.  It means they are either against vaccines or against Democrats (or likely against D's therefore against vaccines).

wait. you said personal freedom isn't the stance of traditional republicans. I said I wasn't talking about traditional republicans. then you said "then it's not about personal freedom". so you don't believe ANY republican has a legitimate stance of personal freedoms? it's all a ruse, no matter who it is or their reasoning?

I'm saying today's Republicans are not anchored to personal freedoms.  It's a ruse.  If they were, then their stance on gay marriage and rights would be laissez-faire.  It isn't.   And traditional republicans did not believe that personal freedoms always outweighed the benefit to society.  Conservatism was very much connected to the impact on society.  They were not anti-vax, unlimited gun rights, and the like.  They were socially conservative for sure, and believed gov't had a role to play in society, it was just different than teh role that liberals supported.  

HughFreakingDillon

ok, again, I'm talking about the FAR right, the MJT's of the group. you think it's a ruse? you don't honestly believe she's all up her wazoo about the basics of constitutional fundamentalism? I think her stance is real, as flawed and somewhat insane as it is. 

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

ok, again, I'm talking about the FAR right, the MJT's of the group. you think it's a ruse? you don't honestly believe she's all up her wazoo about the basics of constitutional fundamentalism? I think her stance is real, as flawed and somewhat insane as it is. 

I can't rationally explain insane people...

JeBurkhardt

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

How about a state law from a republican legislature restricting private business' right to choose who they do & don't want to serve? 

https://www.austin360.com/story/entertainment/dining/restaurant-reviews/2021/08/10/launderette-fresas-vaccines/5555249001/

Not allowing people the personal freedom to kill themselves, others, and perpetuate terrible behavior by getting fucking hammered and driving home without a damn mask on.

What is the world coming to!

People fought for my right to get smashed without a mask on and drive home! 

Land of the free and home of the brave.  Yeah, right!

  

Nothing screams conservative government like *checks notes* regulating the shit out of private business. 

This! The party of small government, until people try to do something they don't approve of or like. 

Historically, they have advocated for local gov't.  In other words, the best gov't is the one that is closest to the people. Yet TX and FL gov continue to strong arm, threaten and pass laws that take away that ability from their local gov't in their state.  

It is interesting, here in Illinois republicans are railing against the Governor trying to mandate masking in schools, saying they should be able to choose locally. In Texas and Florida, republicans are cheering on the Governor while he threatens to punish school districts who want to have mask mandates and choose locally what to do. 

cincybearcat

JeBurkhardt said:

mrussel1 said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

I don't think it's either. breaking it down to its most basic, far right Republicans are for personal freedom over everything (liberty or death), Democrats are for the collective good. This falls in line exactly how one would expect for far right R's. 

How about a state law from a republican legislature restricting private business' right to choose who they do & don't want to serve? 

https://www.austin360.com/story/entertainment/dining/restaurant-reviews/2021/08/10/launderette-fresas-vaccines/5555249001/

Not allowing people the personal freedom to kill themselves, others, and perpetuate terrible behavior by getting fucking hammered and driving home without a damn mask on.

What is the world coming to!

People fought for my right to get smashed without a mask on and drive home! 

Land of the free and home of the brave.  Yeah, right!

  

Nothing screams conservative government like *checks notes* regulating the shit out of private business. 

This! The party of small government, until people try to do something they don't approve of or like. 

Historically, they have advocated for local gov't.  In other words, the best gov't is the one that is closest to the people. Yet TX and FL gov continue to strong arm, threaten and pass laws that take away that ability from their local gov't in their state.  

It is interesting, here in Illinois republicans are railing against the Governor trying to mandate masking in schools, saying they should be able to choose locally. In Texas and Florida, republicans are cheering on the Governor while he threatens to punish school districts who want to have mask mandates and choose locally what to do. 

Cause it's no longer about principles unfortunately.

curmudgeoness

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

wait. you said personal freedom isn't the stance of traditional republicans. I said I wasn't talking about traditional republicans. then you said "then it's not about personal freedom". so you don't believe ANY republican has a legitimate stance of personal freedoms? it's all a ruse, no matter who it is or their reasoning?

I'm saying today's Republicans are not anchored to personal freedoms.  It's a ruse.  If they were, then their stance on gay marriage and rights would be laissez-faire.  It isn't.   And traditional republicans did not believe that personal freedoms always outweighed the benefit to society.  Conservatism was very much connected to the impact on society.  They were not anti-vax, unlimited gun rights, and the like.  They were socially conservative for sure, and believed gov't had a role to play in society, it was just different than teh role that liberals supported.  

David Frum (an actual conservative, although his ideas have been evolving to the left, and I don't know if he's registered GOP anymore) wrote about this for The Atlantic in April. This one's probably paywalled, although I'm a huge fan of The Atlantic and recommend a subscription. :-)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/sudden-conservative-outrage-over-vaccine-passports/618476/

<<But the point is not to win the fight, or even really to fight the fight. The point is to announce the fight, and to keep raging about it, even if you do not in fact fight it very hard. DeSantis surely does not agree with those Republicans who dismiss COVID-19 as a hoax, the COVID-19 vaccines as a menace, and vaccine certificates as the mark of the anti-Christ. He has repeatedly said that he will take the vaccine when it’s his turn. But he must reckon with a party in which anti-vaccination has joined pro-gun as an indispensable cultural marker—and as a potential veto bloc for anyone aspiring to a future Republican presidential nomination.

To appease those cultural blocs, Republican politicians must be willing to sacrifice everything, including what used to be the party’s foundational principles. To protect the gun, or to avoid contradicting the delusions of anti-vaccine paranoiacs, property rights must give way, freedom to operate a business must yield. The QAnon-curious Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene expressed the new mentality when she took to Facebook to denounce vaccine passports as “corporate communism.” It sounded crazy. But if you understand that she interprets communism to mean “any interference in the right of people like me to do whatever we want, regardless of the rights of others”—then, yeah, the property rights of corporations will indeed look to her like a force of communism.

A sizable minority of Americans want to use airplanes belonging to others, theme parks belonging to others, sports stadiums belonging to others—without concession to the health of others or the property rights of owners. With guns, with COVID-19, with tech, the new post-Trump message from the post-Trump GOP is: Private property is socialism; state expropriation is freedom. It’s a strange doctrine for a party supposedly committed to liberty and the Constitution, but here we are.>>

 

brianlux

JeBurkhardt said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how people blame republicans for the current surge. 

Also: 

https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1425848329926238208?s=21

I have pretty much thought of her as a fanatical lunatic, now I am thinking she might be more evil than crazy.

Agreed!

Merkin Baller

This is exactly what republicans want for Biden’s America: chaos. That some Americans will die in the process is even more ammo for 2022 & 2024. 

https://twitter.com/sunsentinel/status/1425891760753061897?s=21

Spunkie

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

This is worrisome.  I'm on Pfizer.  Punchline, this study (non peer reviewed) shows that in July, Pfizer's effectiveness at stopping transmission dropped to the 40's.  Moderna was much stronger.  Virologist's caution not to read too much into yet because it's limited and not reviewed, but it's still something to consider when making decisions about concerts and such.  I'm in the pit at DMB in about two weeks.  

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccines-pfizer-moderna-delta-biden-e9be4bb0-3d10-4f56-8054-5410be357070.html

I saw this...

The July 28, 2021, pre-print report of the study, which has not been peer-reviewed, suggests a gradual "declining trend in vaccine efficacy" over 6 months after two doses of the Pfizer vaccine in more than 45,000 people worldwide.

The study finds overall effectiveness falls from 96% to 84%.

EDIT: I should note that yes what you posted is concerning....booster on the way I guess.

Canada already has a 10 million federal reserve stockpiled ontop of provincial allocations for the upcoming third doses. To hell with a worldwide equitable and fair rollout that prioritizes the vulnerable. If I've leaned anything from our countries it's - look out for #1!

mrussel1

curmudgeoness said:

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

wait. you said personal freedom isn't the stance of traditional republicans. I said I wasn't talking about traditional republicans. then you said "then it's not about personal freedom". so you don't believe ANY republican has a legitimate stance of personal freedoms? it's all a ruse, no matter who it is or their reasoning?

I'm saying today's Republicans are not anchored to personal freedoms.  It's a ruse.  If they were, then their stance on gay marriage and rights would be laissez-faire.  It isn't.   And traditional republicans did not believe that personal freedoms always outweighed the benefit to society.  Conservatism was very much connected to the impact on society.  They were not anti-vax, unlimited gun rights, and the like.  They were socially conservative for sure, and believed gov't had a role to play in society, it was just different than teh role that liberals supported.  

David Frum (an actual conservative, although his ideas have been evolving to the left, and I don't know if he's registered GOP anymore) wrote about this for The Atlantic in April. This one's probably paywalled, although I'm a huge fan of The Atlantic and recommend a subscription. :-)

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/sudden-conservative-outrage-over-vaccine-passports/618476/

<<But the point is not to win the fight, or even really to fight the fight. The point is to announce the fight, and to keep raging about it, even if you do not in fact fight it very hard. DeSantis surely does not agree with those Republicans who dismiss COVID-19 as a hoax, the COVID-19 vaccines as a menace, and vaccine certificates as the mark of the anti-Christ. He has repeatedly said that he will take the vaccine when it’s his turn. But he must reckon with a party in which anti-vaccination has joined pro-gun as an indispensable cultural marker—and as a potential veto bloc for anyone aspiring to a future Republican presidential nomination.

To appease those cultural blocs, Republican politicians must be willing to sacrifice everything, including what used to be the party’s foundational principles. To protect the gun, or to avoid contradicting the delusions of anti-vaccine paranoiacs, property rights must give way, freedom to operate a business must yield. The QAnon-curious Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene expressed the new mentality when she took to Facebook to denounce vaccine passports as “corporate communism.” It sounded crazy. But if you understand that she interprets communism to mean “any interference in the right of people like me to do whatever we want, regardless of the rights of others”—then, yeah, the property rights of corporations will indeed look to her like a force of communism.

A sizable minority of Americans want to use airplanes belonging to others, theme parks belonging to others, sports stadiums belonging to others—without concession to the health of others or the property rights of owners. With guns, with COVID-19, with tech, the new post-Trump message from the post-Trump GOP is: Private property is socialism; state expropriation is freedom. It’s a strange doctrine for a party supposedly committed to liberty and the Constitution, but here we are.>>

 

Yes Frum's evolution has been interesting.  I think for people him,  Kristol and others,  they just decided that Liberal politics is better than the alternative. At least it's rational.  

And yes,  I've seen the corporate communism statement which is just... hilarious.  Talk about a contradiction in terms.  I've been saying for a long time that calling a person a communist,  socialist,  Marxist,  etc. is just completely meaningless today.   It's defined as "anything I don't like. "

HughFreakingDillon

this is, quite literally, never going to fucking end. 

jerparker20

BREAKING: The Supreme Court refuses grant Indiana University students’ request to block the school’s vaccine mandate. Justice Amy Coney Barrett rejected the request without referring it to the full court.

Justice Coney Barrett tells anti-vaxers to get fucked. This along with a handful of other rulings on vaccine mandates will put to bed any potential suits. Also, I’m sure it’s been mentioned before, but the SCOTUS ruled back in 1905 that vaccine mandates are constitutional.

Spunkie

BC implements mandatory vaccine for  assisted living health workers today and requires vaccination status from other health workers.

curmudgeoness

Merkin Baller said:

This is exactly what republicans want for Biden’s America: chaos. That some Americans will die in the process is even more ammo for 2022 & 2024. 

https://twitter.com/sunsentinel/status/1425891760753061897?s=21

Jennifer Rubin is suggesting in WaPo that this ploy might backfire:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/12/reckoning-may-have-finally-come-maga-governors-what-cost/ 

<<Americans know whom to blame for the delta surge, the uptick in hospitalizations in low-vaccination states and the spike in infections among children. A recent Morning Consult-Politico poll found 49 percent blame the unvaccinated and the political leaders who ban mask or vaccine requirements; another 21 percent blame one of these groups and only 22 percent blame neither. Among Republicans, a majority — 53 percent — blame at least one of these groups or both while 39 percent blame neither.>>

josevolution

In my office at work everyone in day shift is vaccinated it’s comprised of 4 Latin Americans, 3 Black Americans & 1 Caucasian American! The overnight shift consists of 8 employees all American minorities none are vaccinated! That’s just one small Dept in this hospital starting Monday all unvaccinated will have to adhere to weekly testing.

Halifax2TheMax

What a douche. Create the problem and then try to be the hero with your blame others‘ approach  to freedumb and “decisive” leadership in deploying the “rapid” response team. What a fucking douche this Deathsantis is. But hey, he’ll be the party’s nominee.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/health/florida-covid-rapid-response-teams/index.html

josevolution

Halifax2TheMax said:

What a douche. Create the problem and then try to be the hero with your blame others‘ approach  to freedumb and “decisive” leadership in deploying the “rapid” response team. What a fucking douche this Deathsantis is. But hey, he’ll be the party’s nominee.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/health/florida-covid-rapid-response-teams/index.html

No doubt Republicans love assholes!