Riots/Looting/Violence and general post-George Floyd madness
Comments
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Must be working undercover these days...Halifax2TheMax said:
Musky like a skunk on a bumpy ride?WhatYouTaughtMe said:
You've got it mistaken. They didn't shoot him because his back wasn't to them. Nothing to do with race at all. Just ask the supposed LEO troll up there that now poses as a woman on here.Halifax2TheMax said:White guy walking toward police, alternating between hands up and reaching behind him touching/grabbing his slung long gun, while bystanders scream he just shot someone and he doesn’t even get shot in the ass? A whole down range view of people laying down, crouching and not a shot fired at the white thug? Yea, sure, race doesn’t matter in a shootout. Did they take him for Jack in the Box after they arrested him?0 -
Retired? Deep woods off Wisconsin avoiding covid19? Never did hear about freedom of speech, expression and gubmint control from LINDAMARIA’s experience in Vietnam and Cambodia, other than it was quiet due to Covid. Funny, I thought as a 2A’er they’d comeback and explain the beauty of America’s exceptionalism? But nothing.WhatYouTaughtMe said:
Must be working undercover these days...Halifax2TheMax said:
Musky like a skunk on a bumpy ride?WhatYouTaughtMe said:
You've got it mistaken. They didn't shoot him because his back wasn't to them. Nothing to do with race at all. Just ask the supposed LEO troll up there that now poses as a woman on here.Halifax2TheMax said:White guy walking toward police, alternating between hands up and reaching behind him touching/grabbing his slung long gun, while bystanders scream he just shot someone and he doesn’t even get shot in the ass? A whole down range view of people laying down, crouching and not a shot fired at the white thug? Yea, sure, race doesn’t matter in a shootout. Did they take him for Jack in the Box after they arrested him?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
If it was just based off the actual shootings, he might walk because it did look like he was being attacked in both instances. But on the other hand, he had broken some serious gun laws in the first place, and that may factor in to the murder charges.OnWis97 said:Rittenhouse is gonna walk on the murders. Hopefully the gun crime sticks and keeps him from ever being a cop.Say for example you were driving and someone else ran a stoplight and you crashed into them and killed them. You wouldn’t get in trouble because it’d be their fault for running the stoplight. But say you were drunk. You’d probably be considered at fault because you’re breaking DUI laws, even if the other person ran the stoplight. Similar logic might be applied here. Maybe? I don’t know, it’s not going to be a cut-and-dry murder case, but prosecutors could probably build some sort of case. He was obviously looking for trouble if he came to a riot scene from out of town with a semi-automatic.2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com0 -
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html
Detailed timeline of what happened from the footage that we have. There is definitely a piece missing here from the start of the first altercation. We all can make assumptions and guess what happened but the truth is not one of us here know what started this. I hope the investigators have more info to put the charges forth that they have.
This 17 year old for some reason thought it was up to him to cross state lines and carry an AR-15 illegally and stand in front of a dealership and protect it. At that age why this is a priority for a kid I have no idea and hope it is part of the investigation. He is almost an adult and it seems to me that some of the adults in his life have either brainwashed him and failed him on all levels.
Also fuck the police for giving a kid with AR-15 water and being grateful for him helping them out. That shit has to stop. Same thing happened with the riots a couple of months ago. Giving armed civilians the heads up they were going to flash bang the area and for them to leave. They drove by him after the shooting with people pointing out he was the shooter. Did they do so intentionally? Probably not but still another fuck up on their part.
Again as the case with the man that was shot 7 times we have people that are confrontational to others that have firearms. What would trigger someone that was unarmed to run after and throw things at a kid who has a rifle? I feel for those two families that were killed a couple of nights ago the most. It is easy to see these headlines and these videos and become desensitized to these situations since they are happening daily.0 -
You still around I thought by now you’d be sporting the long riffle and marching with the orange militia Karen!lindamarie73 said:Must be a special on Toilet paper and hand sanitizer at this Target in MN Tonight....What sparked this righteous behavior you ask??? Well, you know ...BLM. Even if you kill yourself wanted for a murder....
jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
lindamarie73 said:
Must be a special on Toilet paper and hand sanitizer at this Target in MN Tonight....What sparked this righteous behavior you ask??? Well, you know ...BLM. Even if you kill yourself wanted for a murder....
Wrong. Because of police. If you want to blame BLM, there would be no BLM movement if this shit wasn't still going on in 2014. Stop ignoring the root cause of all of this.Rodney KingSylville SmithBreonna TaylorGeorge FloydFreddie GrayTyrone WestTony McDaleRayshard BrooksJacob BlakeTrayvon Martin (not shot by a cop, but more of a dipshit who was trying to be one)
I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.0 -
You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Was the person that shot Foster in Austin ever charged? That case kind of dropped off the radar.static111 said:You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.0 -
Not yetPJPOWER said:
Was the person that shot Foster in Austin ever charged? That case kind of dropped off the radar.static111 said:You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
So, the police department budget has not been cut, no funds have been transferred, no additional resources have been put elsewhere to deal with crime prevention, just a secretive measure to "scale back" ? That sounds exactly like what "defund the police" is not.bbiggs said:oftenreading said:
Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period.bbiggs said:
Wrong. Not speculation. I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result. Fact. If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.oftenreading said:
If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble
Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles. First, I have had plenty to contribute. To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave. We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty. Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality. You disagree with my stance and that's fine. I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation. So let's move on. Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops? Ummm, have you turned on the news lately? They are literally burning. This is not a figure of speech. You can champion your position and I can champion mine. Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.Glorified KC said:
I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count. Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops? Cities are burning because of bad cops. Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big troubleSo yes, you’re speculating.Listen. You can read and research all you want on the topic. I live here and have friends in Chicago PD. I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me. The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting). So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
And again, yes, you're speculating as to the cause of said "mayhem", particularly when similar "mayhem" is going on in cities across the country that have not made changes that you claim are happening in Chicago.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
mcgruff10 said:
When did this occur?oftenreading said:
I didn’t say other cities, I said that in the past when chicago has cut its budget it coincided with a reduction in crime rates.mcgruff10 said:
Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget?oftenreading said:
Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period.bbiggs said:
Wrong. Not speculation. I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result. Fact. If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.oftenreading said:
If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble
Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles. First, I have had plenty to contribute. To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave. We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty. Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality. You disagree with my stance and that's fine. I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation. So let's move on. Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops? Ummm, have you turned on the news lately? They are literally burning. This is not a figure of speech. You can champion your position and I can champion mine. Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.Glorified KC said:
I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count. Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops? Cities are burning because of bad cops. Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big troubleSo yes, you’re speculating.
Reportedly 2011-2015.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0 -
Any link to an article (I couldn't find any)? I"m genuinely interested.oftenreading said:mcgruff10 said:
When did this occur?
I didn’t say other cities, I said that in the past when chicago has cut its budget it coincided with a reduction in crime rates.
Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget?
Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period.
Wrong. Not speculation. I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result. Fact. If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.So yes, you’re speculating.
Reportedly 2011-2015.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Yeah, I just read that they are looking for a couple of witnesses and that there were a lot of different accounts from people that they have interviewed so far. Just hadn’t heard much news lately otherwise on the incident.static111 said:
Not yetPJPOWER said:
Was the person that shot Foster in Austin ever charged? That case kind of dropped off the radar.static111 said:You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.0 -
oftenreading said:
So, the police department budget has not been cut, no funds have been transferred, no additional resources have been put elsewhere to deal with crime prevention, just a secretive measure to "scale back" ? That sounds exactly like what "defund the police" is not.bbiggs said:oftenreading said:
Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period.bbiggs said:
Wrong. Not speculation. I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result. Fact. If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.oftenreading said:
If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble
Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles. First, I have had plenty to contribute. To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave. We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty. Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality. You disagree with my stance and that's fine. I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation. So let's move on. Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops? Ummm, have you turned on the news lately? They are literally burning. This is not a figure of speech. You can champion your position and I can champion mine. Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.Glorified KC said:
I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count. Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops? Cities are burning because of bad cops. Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big troubleSo yes, you’re speculating.Listen. You can read and research all you want on the topic. I live here and have friends in Chicago PD. I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me. The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting). So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
And again, yes, you're speculating as to the cause of said "mayhem", particularly when similar "mayhem" is going on in cities across the country that have not made changes that you claim are happening in Chicago.
Since we are re-visiting this, would you mind posting the time frame when Chicago PD was reduced and crime rates went down? That would be useful knowledge for the group. Thank you.
0 -
oftenreading said:mcgruff10 said:
When did this occur?oftenreading said:
I didn’t say other cities, I said that in the past when chicago has cut its budget it coincided with a reduction in crime rates.mcgruff10 said:
Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget?oftenreading said:
Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period.bbiggs said:
Wrong. Not speculation. I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result. Fact. If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.oftenreading said:
If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble
Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles. First, I have had plenty to contribute. To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave. We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty. Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality. You disagree with my stance and that's fine. I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation. So let's move on. Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops? Ummm, have you turned on the news lately? They are literally burning. This is not a figure of speech. You can champion your position and I can champion mine. Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.Glorified KC said:
I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count. Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops? Cities are burning because of bad cops. Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.bbiggs said:
Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.Glorified KC said:
The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?bbiggs said:
You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.Glorified KC said:
Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.bbiggs said:
Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.cincybearcat said:
It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.PJNB said:
So thats a yes?PJPOWER said:
I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.PJNB said:PJPOWER said:
There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?Ledbetterman10 said:Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:
Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21Just complete and utter fucking chaos.
You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
It's Newton's 3rd law.
1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands
Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI
When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big troubleSo yes, you’re speculating.
Reportedly 2011-2015.
I missed this before my last post. Link?
0 -
It’s just crazy that some people are saying in the same breath that Garrett having an assault style ar whatever was reason for someone to feel threatened to defend their lives, and then justify that a kid with an ar-15 out looking for vigilante terrorist justice Was justified because self defense. Can’t have it both ways especially when 17 years old Trayvon Martins murder was justified because he looked scary with a hoodie. Sorry white america we are largely fucked up and need to do better yesterday.PJPOWER said:
Yeah, I just read that they are looking for a couple of witnesses and that there were a lot of different accounts from people that they have interviewed so far. Just hadn’t heard much news lately otherwise on the incident.static111 said:
Not yetPJPOWER said:
Was the person that shot Foster in Austin ever charged? That case kind of dropped off the radar.static111 said:You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
Garret was killed in self defense. He pointed an AK47 at the wrong person. The kid yesterday murdered two people. It seems pretty clear cut to me.static111 said:
It’s just crazy that some people are saying in the same breath that Garrett having an assault style ar whatever was reason for someone to feel threatened to defend their lives, and then justify that a kid with an ar-15 out looking for vigilante terrorist justice Was justified because self defense. Can’t have it both ways especially when 17 years old Trayvon Martins murder was justified because he looked scary with a hoodie. Sorry white america we are largely fucked up and need to do better yesterday.PJPOWER said:
Yeah, I just read that they are looking for a couple of witnesses and that there were a lot of different accounts from people that they have interviewed so far. Just hadn’t heard much news lately otherwise on the incident.static111 said:
Not yetPJPOWER said:
Was the person that shot Foster in Austin ever charged? That case kind of dropped off the radar.static111 said:You don’t get to threaten People and then claim self defense. I thought we went over this when an armed protester In Austin was shot and killed for being threatening? The person who was adult enough to take two lives gets no sympathy from me.0 -
Thanks for your thoughtful contribution to the discourse.lindamarie73 said:Must be a special on Toilet paper and hand sanitizer at this Target in MN Tonight....What sparked this righteous behavior you ask??? Well, you know ...BLM. Even if you kill yourself wanted for a murder....
Just a reminder that Pearl Jam is a band that supports many liberal ideas, movements, and policies.
Including but not limited to...
Pro-choice organizations
The Black Lives Matter Movement
Stricter gun laws and background checks
Etc.
Also please keep in mind that when you support a racist or racist policies in any way, shape, or form, including voting, that makes you a racist as well.
Post edited by Bentleyspop on0 -
While most people agree that the kid should not have been there, some of that sentiment is focused on the word "kid." The right is pretty much all-in on self-defense, otherwise...i.e., if he'd been old enough to own that gun, he should get off and be a cop some day.This seems to have elements of George Zimmerman. What the hell possesses someone to grab a gun and seek out an excuse be able to stand your ground? Zimmerman's act was pre-meditated. And so was this kid's (though he didn't specifically know who he was going to shoot). So at some point, a cop is going to kill a black guy and there's going to be a protest. Someone totally legal to own an AR-15 is going to go there. The cops are going to give him a nod, a wink, and a bottle of water. Then someone is going to run in his direction and BAM! that someone's going to be dead, regardless of that someone's intent. And white nationalist America is going to make him a folk hero as he's arrested and not charged...or, at most, charged and acquired.Sometimes with internet things "the laws haven't caught up with the technology." Well, I'm not sure they've caught up with the trends and the sophistry of pre-meditated self-defense. Fortunatley most white nationalists, like most people, don't want to be infamous or risk going through the court system, but I'd bet lots of 'em have fantasy about killing blacks and beta-male white allies.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
Kid fits in with a lot of the police today. Came with the thought he is better than the people there, had his gun at the ready, instigated and escalated.
hippiemom = goodness0
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