F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Sounds like you know you may want to run slower on the practice long runs....I'm trying for the same goal time (3:59:59!) and I do find it difficult at times to run around 9 min pace when I've been focused on shorter runs for the last few years and want to go much faster. What kind of a watch do you use? You may be able to set the parameters for your time and then it can let you know when you should slow down or speed up. This weekend I was hungover so going nice and easy was not a challenge
Having a hill at the end does seem cruel. I know the Philly has some big inclines in a few spots so I've been trying to work in some hillls...but if you live in a flat area that is tough.
I've heard Chicago is fun, would like to run that one day.
I agree it's super hard to hold back the pace for long runs and it took me years to finally realise it, but for a 4hr marathon your long runs want to be 10min pace tops, may e a couple of quicker miles towards the end of you feel good. I have a 3:28 marathon and pace my long runs around 9:30 for the majority of the run, slower if I'm feeling a little fatigued and get some marathon pace miles and faster into my other runs.
I was really disappointed after a few runs in the 1080 v12 they just felt really flat and lifeless. I agree with you on the V10 I think that was the pinnacle. I've heard really good things about the endorphin speed and if it's a she's that works for you then maybe a month is enough time to bed them in.
I'd love to run a big marathon like Chicago. I live pretty close to London but the ballot system hasn't ever worked out for me.
I really appreciate the advice and tips. Get pacing down is going to take some work. Slowing down feels so different from a running form perspective. The question that I have for the group is how do I translate slow 20 mile long runs into a faster 26 mile marathon? I know that the tempo runs and track workouts should help but that feels like a big jump from 10 min long runs to a 9 min race.
You should both try to do Chicago. It is a really big race 45,000 people but there is so much energy in the city for the event. Crowds are 2 people deep across most of the course. Except for the late incline/hill, it is a great, flat course.
That's the biggest mind f**k, it's so hard to run 20 miles at 10min pace, how can I run 26 miles at 9 min pace.
Remember your training is conditioning your body to be more capable of your effort in race day. Your longs runs aren't 'marathon practice' they're just part of the conditioning. And your long runs don't stand alone, you have long run piled upon more long runs and tempo runs and intervals and track sessions etc etc all of this is on tired legs. After a good taper you'll have all this training in your legs with the bonus of being fresh, and this should allow you to commit to the extra effort on race day.
I always tell myself this is training/conditioning, not practice
It is a good idea though, to do let's say a 16 miler nice and easy and slow but make the last couple of miles at race pace, that way you don't over exert but you train your body to hit marathons pace on tired legs at the end of a long run
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Yeah all of the sharing here is great.
My experience is to look at my watch, frequently, until I can settle in at my pace. (Which is why I asked about your watch as you can have that do it for you.)
I really appreciate all of the guidance and tips. After 2 years of doing fall half marathons, prepping for a full marathon has been quite the learning experience. I am all about learning from people who have done these things before. The approach that I took for a marathon 20+ years ago is not going to work today.
My aunts 60th birthday party is on a Saturday at 15.00. And there is a trail run race (9km) at 12.00 on the same day.
... Haha... to stressful to try to do both... or manageable.....
Start the race at 12... so finished at 13:15 min maybe... I'd be home at 13:45 then, shower... get to the train station... train ride 30 min... hmmm....
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
I really appreciate all of the guidance and tips. After 2 years of doing fall half marathons, prepping for a full marathon has been quite the learning experience. I am all about learning from people who have done these things before. The approach that I took for a marathon 20+ years ago is not going to work today.
Every other Wednesday I run a pace session. 7 miles this Wednesday and I will come as close to steady pace the whole was as I can. These sessions will hopefully see me get used to that pace and how it feels to find a good spot there. Think 8 or 9 will be the max mileage for these pace runs. Tuesday and Thursday are shorter runs (4 miles this week) and I can run however I feel like running. Those are the fun days. They will get longer as we go. Saturday long runs and Sundays cross trains and short runs with my son that are nice and easy.
I'm sure you will do great and it is fun to have another person sharing.
My aunts 60th birthday party is on a Saturday at 15.00. And there is a trail run race (9km) at 12.00 on the same day.
... Haha... to stressful to try to do both... or manageable.....
Start the race at 12... so finished at 13:15 min maybe... I'd be home at 13:45 then, shower... get to the train station... train ride 30 min... hmmm....
You can make it work. Even if you are a bit late she will be happy for why, I would imagine.
My aunts 60th birthday party is on a Saturday at 15.00. And there is a trail run race (9km) at 12.00 on the same day.
... Haha... to stressful to try to do both... or manageable.....
Start the race at 12... so finished at 13:15 min maybe... I'd be home at 13:45 then, shower... get to the train station... train ride 30 min... hmmm....
If it feels too much then it's probably best to do what's important......
My aunts 60th birthday party is on a Saturday at 15.00. And there is a trail run race (9km) at 12.00 on the same day.
... Haha... to stressful to try to do both... or manageable.....
Start the race at 12... so finished at 13:15 min maybe... I'd be home at 13:45 then, shower... get to the train station... train ride 30 min... hmmm....
If it feels too much then it's probably best to do what's important......
I'm sure your aunt will understand 😂👍
Haha!
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
15 miles Friday. Ran this morning in the area where the concert was meant to be last night. Was a nice run....however I went out on Friday afternoon to put water in the pool, barefooted, and stepped on a black wasp. Stung me on the bottom of my foot/just under the arch, and walking sat/sun on it was OK but running on it was for sure irritating. I'm ready for it to go away.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
Sounds like you know you may want to run slower on the practice long runs....I'm trying for the same goal time (3:59:59!) and I do find it difficult at times to run around 9 min pace when I've been focused on shorter runs for the last few years and want to go much faster. What kind of a watch do you use? You may be able to set the parameters for your time and then it can let you know when you should slow down or speed up. This weekend I was hungover so going nice and easy was not a challenge
Having a hill at the end does seem cruel. I know the Philly has some big inclines in a few spots so I've been trying to work in some hillls...but if you live in a flat area that is tough.
I've heard Chicago is fun, would like to run that one day.
Hey --
Are you training for the Philly marathon in November? Have you run it before? It has been a while since I ran it (ten years, maybe?), but while it's not Chicago-flat, it's a pretty gentle course. I can remember two uphill sections, and they were short and really not terrible (although I was living in a hilly area at the time, so no extra training was needed). I wouldn't stress too much about those parts of the course.
Philly is a great marathon, I really liked it. Good luck!
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
12 miles this morning. Almost a minute per mile faster than last weekend's 11 miler, and I wasn't trying, I was just going along. Such a huge difference the heat and humidity make...this am it was 61% humidity and 62 degrees. For sure manageable vs what it has been most the past month+.
@PJ1973, I would advise that as you start to add miles and get close to peaking, that you see what works for liquids and/or any food or gel intake. One difference that is obvious as you stretch out is that for 3-4 miles you don't need any water nor food, but on longer runs you likely will want some food and I think you will need some water. Sure your coach will help with that. When I moved from 4-5 miles to a half, a full, a 50k, etc, the biggest change that wasn't obvious to me was managing that stuff...and specifically what works and doesn't work for my stomach. Had to practice with different approaches to fine what worked for me. Today, I had to take a pit stop at 6.5 miles and I was ready for it. Running routes that have clean bathroom options is a must, for me. Some people aren't bothered. As I start to add more miles I will refrain from drinking the night before and eat cautiously, as I know what works. For now, I know I can still get through the mileage w.out much issue and enjoy a few cocktails on Friday night.
Have fun with it and let us know if you have questions. Look forward to being on the journey with you!
The race is December 2nd in Winston-Salem (where I live). The training is geared around the Richmond 1/2 and full marathon, which I think is November 11th. Last week I ran around 11 miles, including one 5.5 mile run which is the longest I've ever done. I felt good after it - went at a pretty slow rate so didn't burn myself out. Today is a rest day and tomorrow is a light run before Tuesday speed drills. Eventually they'll add hill workouts to Tuesdays as well.
The pacer in my group started talking to me about food/gels/water during the race. I'm the only one in my sub-group who has not run anything longer than a 5k. He said the same thing you did, that I should start thinking about fueling sooner rather than later. Left to my own, I probably wouldn't even think about it until November, but the emphasis placed right at the get go is changing my approach. Gonna go to my local Fleet Feet this week and start seeing what they have.
Hitting the gym today - making sure I keep up some weight training. Recommended I do it two days a week now.
Definitely need to start paying more attention to my overall diet and alcohol intake...not an easy thing to do right as tour starts! If anyone here is going to Austin, let me know and we can meet up for a jog
Will keep you posted as this is going!
There are a lot of fueling options, and it makes sense to sample what's available at your running store. For runs longer than an hour, you want to have some carbs. I prefer Jelly Belly "Extreme" (caffeinated) Sport Beans, other people swear by chews or gels. Figure out what your stomach will tolerate while you're running -- some people have more finicky stomachs than others.
I'm really bad about hydrating properly. I've had two kids, and ever since about the midpoint of my first pregnancy, way too much bandwidth is devoted to thinking abut how I need to pee. This gets worse in colder weather. So, yesterday, I set out three bottles of water for an 18-mile run, and didn't quite finish one bottle. :-( I lost three pounds of water and didn't even notice it because it's so dry here -- except for the part where I got really tired at the end of my run. So I really need to work on this.
I'm trying to train for my first marathon in a long time. I needed a training goal. I've really struggled to regain my energy post-Covid, which sucks. And I can't even remember the last time I *really* did speedwork. And -- sigh -- I'm older. So this should be interesting.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Hello. Yes, that is the one this year. The last time I trained for this one, covid happened and I ended up doing it virtually. Done the Philly have multiple times but I know where the full goes and it will have a few spots where there are definitely hills. Overall, not too demanding, tho. I do live in a flat area so have been trying to work on some hills. Always fun to plan this stuff.
What distances are you running, now?
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
That's a good question. I'm going to run a November marathon, I think (everything depends on my husband's travel schedule), but as a training run since I haven't done speedwork in forever. You know the saying, "Running is a mental sport?" I've basically psyched myself out of racing, so my whole goal here is to just finish some races and then see about speedwork and "racing," meaning improving my performance. I need to get out of my own head.
So I'm looking at a late fall marathon and 50K and a five-hour indoor run on New Year's (I'm living in Utah and there's a nice indoor track around the Olympic speedskating oval). The goals for all of those are to just show up and finish. Actual goal race is the Carlsbad (just north of San Diego) Marathon in January: I've run that half a few times. The course runs right along the ocean and it's the best-organized race I've ever seen (abundant, convenient, parking and porta-potties!). They have nice swag, too, if that's your thing.
I really like Philly, like I said, but if anyone is looking for a destination winter race, I highly recommend Carlsbad. Be advised that the course has a lot of "rolling hills" even though it's right on the coast.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Wow, from nothing solid to a 50k in such short order? Awesome. The only 50k I ran broke me. (Physically, not mentally...I finished because of my determination)
Living in SoCal for 20 years, in the past, I'm familiar with Carlsbad. Would love to race there....hope you can do it!
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
Oh I log a lot of miles, 50-60/week. I just get wrapped around an axle when it comes to racing (you know, crowds, people).
I ran my age in miles (53) last year as a fundraiser. It was freaking hard. I had run my age in km before, and just as the leap from 13.1 to 26.2 is a large one, it turns out that the difference between 53km and 53 miles is significant,
So part of me knows I can do a 50K, and part of me is a trainwreck. I have a lot of mental work to do. The legs can make it to the finish line, provided that the brain doesn't have a freak-out.
And then I need to deal with my husband, who started throwing out deranged ideas like "Wouldn't it be cool if you did Badwater?" after following ultra results this summer. I shut that down right away. Training for that sort of thing requires time, consistency/ stability that we just don't have right now.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Wow, that us awesome. Badwater is ridiculous. That would be amazing!
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,990
Sure, it would be -- but when he started making nonsense noises about things like UTMB, I said, if we start training now, in earnest, we might be able to do it for our 60th birthdays. He finally acknowledged that I'm right about that, LOL. "We" sometimes forget our ages; training for or aiming for an age-group placing in a road race is a different beast than training to run 100+ miles through the Alps or across the desert, and his job literally is 75% travel right now.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Hitting all my training targets at the moment, I feel I've the best chance of breaking 90mins that I've ever had. Race day is a month away and I have my brother's 3 night stag do (bachelor party) in Frankfurt this weekend which isn't great timing 😂🍺🍺
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Hitting all my training targets at the moment, I feel I've the best chance of breaking 90mins that I've ever had. Race day is a month away and I have my brother's 3 night stag do (bachelor party) in Frankfurt this weekend which isn't great timing 😂🍺🍺
Congrats to him! Hope you enjoy....and running some in the AMs will help clear the head.
I was about 30 seconds off on my pace running this week. I'm ok with that, I know it happens and getting mileage in is important.
Ran this AM but off Friday and Saturday before the Half on Sunday. Did the hot tub some this afternoon and feel good. Headed to Manhattan tomorrow to meet up with a friend from here, and go to Run The Jewels. Probably out late and drinking Best training for Sunday's half! I will work to keep it light.
The love he receives is the love that is saved
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 31,380
Probably need to avoid partying a few days before the full, in November, if I want to hit my goal time. Had a blast in NYC but didn't sleep much and had many (too many?) beers. )
Was well ahead of pace for the first half....probably too aggressive, but I pumped myself up to get a good lead on my time to allow for what seems an inevitable bathroom pit stop on longer runs. This never came to be needed, however I did slow down considerably after about mile 8. Finished 1 min 08 seconds off PR, which is very solid for where I am in the training.
Was fun and I really enjoyed the first 8-9 miles. Not so much the rest.
Onward with training....have a long run this week and also a 5k locally.
Probably need to avoid partying a few days before the full, in November, if I want to hit my goal time. Had a blast in NYC but didn't sleep much and had many (too many?) beers. )
Was well ahead of pace for the first half....probably too aggressive, but I pumped myself up to get a good lead on my time to allow for what seems an inevitable bathroom pit stop on longer runs. This never came to be needed, however I did slow down considerably after about mile 8. Finished 1 min 08 seconds off PR, which is very solid for where I am in the training.
Was fun and I really enjoyed the first 8-9 miles. Not so much the rest.
Onward with training....have a long run this week and also a 5k locally.
I live in fear of the pit stop. Sounds like a good effort, despite the beers (carb loading!). Good luck with your training.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
Comments
What kind of a watch do you use? You may be able to set the parameters for your time and then it can let you know when you should slow down or speed up.
This weekend I was hungover so going nice and easy was not a challenge
Having a hill at the end does seem cruel. I know the Philly has some big inclines in a few spots so I've been trying to work in some hillls...but if you live in a flat area that is tough.
I've heard Chicago is fun, would like to run that one day.
I was really disappointed after a few runs in the 1080 v12 they just felt really flat and lifeless. I agree with you on the V10 I think that was the pinnacle. I've heard really good things about the endorphin speed and if it's a she's that works for you then maybe a month is enough time to bed them in.
I'd love to run a big marathon like Chicago. I live pretty close to London but the ballot system hasn't ever worked out for me.
I just get excited about it all 👍
You should both try to do Chicago. It is a really big race 45,000 people but there is so much energy in the city for the event. Crowds are 2 people deep across most of the course. Except for the late incline/hill, it is a great, flat course.
Remember your training is conditioning your body to be more capable of your effort in race day. Your longs runs aren't 'marathon practice' they're just part of the conditioning. And your long runs don't stand alone, you have long run piled upon more long runs and tempo runs and intervals and track sessions etc etc all of this is on tired legs. After a good taper you'll have all this training in your legs with the bonus of being fresh, and this should allow you to commit to the extra effort on race day.
I always tell myself this is training/conditioning, not practice
Dont know if any of that makes sense 😂
My experience is to look at my watch, frequently, until I can settle in at my pace. (Which is why I asked about your watch as you can have that do it for you.)
... Haha... to stressful to try to do both... or manageable.....
Start the race at 12... so finished at 13:15 min maybe... I'd be home at 13:45 then, shower... get to the train station... train ride 30 min... hmmm....
Tuesday and Thursday are shorter runs (4 miles this week) and I can run however I feel like running. Those are the fun days.
They will get longer as we go.
Saturday long runs and Sundays cross trains and short runs with my son that are nice and easy.
I'm sure you will do great and it is fun to have another person sharing.
You can make it work. Even if you are a bit late she will be happy for why, I would imagine.
I'm sure your aunt will understand 😂👍
Unfortunately my hip isn't getting any better, more tests coming my way.
Hope everyone is staying healthy
I do live in a flat area so have been trying to work on some hills.
Always fun to plan this stuff.
What distances are you running, now?
Living in SoCal for 20 years, in the past, I'm familiar with Carlsbad. Would love to race there....hope you can do it!
Badwater is ridiculous. That would be amazing!
Soundtrack: Sounds of salmon spawning stream
I was about 30 seconds off on my pace running this week. I'm ok with that, I know it happens and getting mileage in is important.
Ran this AM but off Friday and Saturday before the Half on Sunday. Did the hot tub some this afternoon and feel good. Headed to Manhattan tomorrow to meet up with a friend from here, and go to Run The Jewels. Probably out late and drinking
Best training for Sunday's half! I will work to keep it light.
Had a blast in NYC but didn't sleep much and had many (too many?) beers.
Was well ahead of pace for the first half....probably too aggressive, but I pumped myself up to get a good lead on my time to allow for what seems an inevitable bathroom pit stop on longer runs.
This never came to be needed, however I did slow down considerably after about mile 8.
Finished 1 min 08 seconds off PR, which is very solid for where I am in the training.
Was fun and I really enjoyed the first 8-9 miles. Not so much the rest.
Onward with training....have a long run this week and also a 5k locally.
I live in fear of the pit stop.