Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
I agree, and hopefully someday black individuals won’t automatically assume it’s racial profiling but in todays atmosphere people and police need to understand why it’s so offensive right away.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
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While it is good to know the law I see this as poklng the bear. We should be vigilant against police abuse but not try and provoke it because we "know our rights".
I believe the kid isn't a minor after the cop checks his ID.
Any cop should be immediately fired for that, no question.
with the strength of police unions it won’t happen
a cop needs to be able to deal with the public no matter if they are polite or not
temporarily switching off a body cam should also result in termination. Tax payers bought them for a reason, at a minimum it’s misusing tax payer dollars. Plus it opens the city up to a lawsuit who ultimately employs them
the individual is being a jerk, the cop in return is being a bully with a badge and a gun. We are allowing police to get away with engaging with people who are trying to get a rise out of them. That’s 3rd grade behaviour from both, we should expect more from a cop
I teach my 9 year old to walk away. That cop needs to go back to elementary school
Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,298
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
I agree. Respond to the call because you have to. Pull up, assess the situation. Wave at the guy and leave.
if the guy was a criminal a cop pulling up would make him run. Then that guy would be gone. Still not an offence that would result in an arrest, but crime prevented
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,298
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
That’s not how the constitution works though. You might want to confirm who someone is, that doesn’t mean it’s allowed based on circumstances.
besides him standing there, you need probable cause a crime is being committed. What specific crime are we talking about and what probable cause?
Suspicion doesn’t rise to that level
cops ask for information all the time. You can choose to give it to them or not. That’s perfectly ok. “Sir, mind if I search your car?” That’s fine, but I can say no. Then he needs to get a judge to sign a warrant in most cases which requires giving some reasonable evidence it’s justified. Asking for id isn’t a search, demanding it is a search and there is a different standard
your first sentence is a problem “who MIGHT not have” that’s speculative it’s different than someone “who DOES not have” the property owners best interests in mind. That gives way,way too much power to the police and government
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,298
"He could have ended it very quickly and chose not to."
They dropped the charges! They admitted they were in the wrong, basically. He did not have to supply them with his ID. After all this discussion and reading about the story, how one can still put the blame on the guy who was just watering his neighbor's flowers is beyond me.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,298
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
I don't man. That seems really far fetched for me to believe. Far more likely the guy would flee as opposed to cartoonishly waiting for the police. lol.
I think your second sentence is more pertinent to general meaning of this thread and has been discussed ad nauseam.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
I guess I’m too submissive too.
That’s kind of why it’s a racial issue. Expecting a black person to be submissive is kind of a problem, historically speaking. Having to submit for no legal reason can be a much bigger deal since it never really ended
As a white person I can never understand besides knowing It’s apples and oranges
looking at the same situation through two different lenses doesn’t mean it is the same. White people also overwhelmingly believe the police are on their side, not out to get them.
Comply and submit even when it’s not a lawful request means very different things to different groups
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
I don't man. That seems really far fetched for me to believe. Far more likely the guy would flee as opposed to cartoonishly waiting for the police. lol.
I think your second sentence is more pertinent to general meaning of this thread and has been discussed ad nauseam.
Not if he knows the law though right? He doesn't have to show an ID....he's not doing anything wrong.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
I guess I’m too submissive too.
That’s kind of why it’s a racial issue. Expecting a black person to be submissive is kind of a problem, historically speaking. Having to submit for no legal reason can be a much bigger deal since it never really ended
As a white person I can never understand besides knowing It’s apples and oranges
looking at the same situation through two different lenses doesn’t mean it is the same. White people also overwhelmingly believe the police are on their side, not out to get them.
Comply and submit even when it’s not a lawful request means very different things to different groups
I don't disagree with that. I'm white so I don't really fear the police nor do I care if they see my ID even if I'm not legally required to provide it.
But if I fear the police I would think the same would apply. You know it's going to escalate if you don't.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
If there was a systemic culture shift in the police where this didn’t happen at all, yes people would bitch. The whole narrative would be our streets are less safe because the police can’t do it
in this one instance, sure no one would complain
all of this kind of stuff gets packaged in police reform initiatives that never go anywhere
You really don’t think people wouldn’t bitch if they called police for some suspicious guy, police never came, and there was a series of break ins, stolen cars or something similar by the guy they never checked out?
People complain their favorite show gets postponed a month. Pretty sure they’ll bitch over that. Not saying that was going to happen here. But that’s what I meant when I said if they don’t respond and something does happen, it will be just as bad of an outcome.
Lots of white people would bitch yes. That’s what I’m saying
People are generally ok with rights being violated as long as it’s not theirs.
I know plenty of people in my neighbourhood who want more policing. They even pay extra for supplemental officers (real police, not rental cops). They don’t want themselves to be policed though they want other people policed. The cops know this, so they really don’t actively look for anything that isn’t external.
policing has always been targeted.
Look at drug enforcement as an example specifically possession charges. Any soccer mom yoga class is filled with illegal prescription drugs: opioids, Adderall, and a mix of a lot of other things. I’ve never seen the cops line them up and search them for being in a high drug area. Black communities though it’s common
Cops know this too, however arresting your tax base isn’t how to get more funding. Violating some peoples rights on the chance it reduces crime is a strategy. The police use it and white people generally don’t care, so it continues. It’s not their rights being violated most of the time.
policing without violating anyones rights shouldn’t even be a question. Sure it makes their jobs harder, but that’s what the job is supposed to be. If a crime ends up happening because a cop couldn’t legally stop it, so be it. Our rights are more important and the ends don’t justify the means
Also....no one is suggesting the police should have ignored the call. lol....
But not confirming someone's identity who might not have the property owner's best intentions in mind is ignoring. My opinion.
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
I would think that makes a world of difference. This was a guy watering flowers probably around noon, as it was after Church. He wasn't attempting to break into the house. I think that makes a huge difference as opposed to spotting someone at the house in the middle of the night.
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
the kind of burglar that realizes someone has seen him?
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
I guess I’m too submissive too.
That’s kind of why it’s a racial issue. Expecting a black person to be submissive is kind of a problem, historically speaking. Having to submit for no legal reason can be a much bigger deal since it never really ended
As a white person I can never understand besides knowing It’s apples and oranges
looking at the same situation through two different lenses doesn’t mean it is the same. White people also overwhelmingly believe the police are on their side, not out to get them.
Comply and submit even when it’s not a lawful request means very different things to different groups
I don't disagree with that. I'm white so I don't really fear the police nor do I care if they see my ID even if I'm not legally required to provide it.
But if I fear the police I would think the same would apply. You know it's going to escalate if you don't.
In the 60’s the guy would get beaten, so if you count that as progress I guess it is. You can make a stand now more safely, but getting arrested is still probable so yeah I think overwhelmingly most just show ID or do whatever the cops demand.
then it just undermines the view of police under the surface as it doesn’t mean they aren’t still mad about it. There is a reason the black community views the police in a vastly different way than the white community. This kind of stuff is one reason
you wouldn’t see all the interactions when someone just complies. Both situations are wrong on the part of the police, but all the complying with unlawful demands how would you even track that? I think it happens way way too often. Since technically it’s providing ID on request, and allowable since you willingly gave it. Even if it’s willingly provided because you know you will get arrested if you don’t. So is it really willingly provided?
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Again, what crime was being committed worst case assuming he was a criminal? Let’s say he was. Any “what if” still requires an actual illegal act to be actively in progress, not one about to happen
He wasn’t inside (yet), so it’s not burglary he was outside. That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there on the request of a neighbour. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
fundamentally it’s no different than the police deciding one day to randomly walk down my street to do ID checks door to door because they want to and arresting anyone who refuses. It’s just as wrong and neither has any actual justification
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Again, what crime was being committed worst case assuming he was a criminal? Let’s say he was
He wasn’t inside (yet), so it’s not burglary he was outside. That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
How do the cops get in trouble for entering a private residence but the pastor doesn't? You can't have that both ways.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Again, what crime was being committed worst case assuming he was a criminal? Let’s say he was
He wasn’t inside (yet), so it’s not burglary he was outside. That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
How do the cops get in trouble for entering a private residence but the pastor doesn't? You can't have that both ways.
The pastor had permission, the police didn’t.
A property owner is the only one who can allow someone on their land except in extreme or specific circumstances. It’s not up to the police or your neighbour to decide if that permission is there or not. It’s the property owners job. If I have a no trespassing sign up for example I can have 20 people on my property and randomly say these 3 are trespassing, the others are fine. Who is or isn’t authorised is up to me, not the police and I can selectively enforce it as much as I want
the police wouldn’t know, it’s none of their business. Minus a crime in progress that they can clearly see, with a warrant, or at the request of the property owner, the police really shouldn’t be on private property at all. Saying otherwise is a terrifying and dangerous precedent for all manner of government intrusion.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Again, what crime was being committed worst case assuming he was a criminal? Let’s say he was
He wasn’t inside (yet), so it’s not burglary he was outside. That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
How do the cops get in trouble for entering a private residence but the pastor doesn't? You can't have that both ways.
The pastor had permission, the police didn’t.
A property owner is the only one who can allow someone on their land except in extreme or specific circumstances. It’s not up to the police or your neighbour to decide if that permission is there or not. It’s the property owners job. If I have a no trespassing sign up for example I can have 20 people on my property and randomly say these 3 are trespassing, the others are fine. Who is or isn’t authorised is up to me, not the police and I can selectively enforce it as much as I want
the police wouldn’t know, it’s none of their business. Minus a crime in progress that they can clearly see, with a warrant, or at the request of the property owner, the police really shouldn’t be on private property at all. Saying otherwise is a terrifying and dangerous precedent for all manner of government intrusion.
Outside, no one to tell them otherwise, yeah, I get the law but the owner isn't there to tell them what is who and where.
I am happy the police checked it out but getting to where it ended is silly.
Here's the thing though--nobody would bitch in this case. The woman who called the police even admitted she made a mistake.
Two points about this, had she gone outside and spoke to him before calling the police she would have realized it was her neighbor (she did say it didn’t look like him) and this wouldn’t have happened, and how is that police working their area in daylight doesn’t know the pastor from across and right down the street.
Why are white people afraid of black people?
And why shouldn’t an elderly black gentleman not be immediately disgusted when being questioned while doing a favor for his neighbor considering it’s probably happened to him his whole life.
There is no excuse for her and the cops reaction. None except racial profiling. I’m not saying they’re racist but the profiling is grotesquely blatant.
Or she knew her neighbor was away and thought it odd that someone was over there?
Was the person that called even white? Was that proven?
For ID purposes. A cop is allowed to detain you until you are recognized or provide ID. There are some gray areas with that too though.
Not being an ass but I wouldn’t have said whites are afraid of blacks if she wasn’t white.
She came out of her house, not immediately, and said “I think this was my fault”. Well yes it was. Take your ass outside and approach the gentleman and she would have seen he lived right across the street and the pastor at a local church. Let’s not forget he had every right to refuse and as someone else stated was knowledgeable about the law and his rights.
No, not being an ass until you mentioned not being an ass, lol. I thought that was funny, forgive me.
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
These were pretty much my thoughts. I don't know the motives of the neighbor or if there is a history there. But everyone seems to be willing to just jump to the conclusion she was profiling if not racist. And maybe she is, but I can't tell that from what I saw. We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do. And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know. She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
she absolutely called the cops because he was black I don’t think that’s even debatable. Her first assumption if he was white would not have been “criminal”. Having that thought doesn’t make you a bad person though. Not working on it does, so I hope she does.
Not being able to admit we all have prejudice is a problem. It’s human nature for one thing to be suspicious of people not in our group. All this pretending we are in a post racial world borders on the absurd
In what world is watering flowers suspicious, If you take race out of the equation? It’s not
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
Pastor says "I'm supposed to be here" You don't live there, you won't show ID that you live in the area, the owners of the home aren't there, a neighbor called because she doesn't recognize you but the cop is to take your word?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
Again, what crime was being committed worst case assuming he was a criminal? Let’s say he was
He wasn’t inside (yet), so it’s not burglary he was outside. That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
How do the cops get in trouble for entering a private residence but the pastor doesn't? You can't have that both ways.
The pastor had permission, the police didn’t.
A property owner is the only one who can allow someone on their land except in extreme or specific circumstances. It’s not up to the police or your neighbour to decide if that permission is there or not. It’s the property owners job. If I have a no trespassing sign up for example I can have 20 people on my property and randomly say these 3 are trespassing, the others are fine. Who is or isn’t authorised is up to me, not the police and I can selectively enforce it as much as I want
the police wouldn’t know, it’s none of their business. Minus a crime in progress that they can clearly see, with a warrant, or at the request of the property owner, the police really shouldn’t be on private property at all. Saying otherwise is a terrifying and dangerous precedent for all manner of government intrusion.
Outside, no one to tell them otherwise, yeah, I get the law but the owner isn't there to tell them what is who and where.
I am happy the police checked it out but getting to where it ended is silly.
You are saying the police should be the gatekeepers of private property access.
If there is a light on in my house at night and my neighbour thinks someone may be inside while I’m out of town that isn’t enough evidence for the police to break my door down to check. It’s a better example of the same thing. Fundamentally it’s not enough evidence a crime is in progress. If my sister is housesitting and someone is actually there,she absolutely doesn’t have to answer the door nor does she have to let anyone inside or have to justify why she is there. The police also don’t need a note from me granting permission to my sister. It’s not their job to determine why she is at my house.
her presence is not evidence of a crime, you need more than that. Signs of forced entry etc. the police can knock on the door, and my sister can say go away. It’s as simple as that
this case is simply someone being present as evidence of a possible crime. why someone is there or who they are doesn’t matter.
How do the cops get in trouble for entering a private residence but the pastor doesn't? You can't have that both ways.
The pastor had permission, the police didn’t.
A property owner is the only one who can allow someone on their land except in extreme or specific circumstances. It’s not up to the police or your neighbour to decide if that permission is there or not. It’s the property owners job. If I have a no trespassing sign up for example I can have 20 people on my property and randomly say these 3 are trespassing, the others are fine. Who is or isn’t authorised is up to me, not the police and I can selectively enforce it as much as I want
the police wouldn’t know, it’s none of their business. Minus a crime in progress that they can clearly see, with a warrant, or at the request of the property owner, the police really shouldn’t be on private property at all. Saying otherwise is a terrifying and dangerous precedent for all manner of government intrusion.
Outside, no one to tell them otherwise, yeah, I get the law but the owner isn't there to tell them what is who and where.
I am happy the police checked it out but getting to where it ended is silly.
If you can’t locate the only person who can give you permission that doesn’t mean you have permission. That’s kind of the point. There were no extreme circumstances that required entering.
It’s both an interesting private property case and one with racial undertones.
specifically from a property rights perspective the police had no business there, no matter if you are glad they checked it out or not.
You are saying the police should be the gatekeepers of private property access.
If there is a light on in my house at night and my neighbour thinks someone may be inside while I’m out of town that isn’t enough evidence for the police to break my door down to check. It’s a better example of the same thing. Fundamentally it’s not enough evidence a crime is in progress. If my sister is housesitting and someone is actually there,she absolutely doesn’t have to answer the door nor does she have to let anyone inside or have to justify why she is there
The letting someone indoors thing is a big one. I knew that from years ago. I begged my friends to not open the door when the cops came, but they did and they rounded us all up and questioned us outside. I wasn't about to make any situation worse so did as we were asked.
Comments
It's why I asked the question. I didn't see where it was mentioned.
If I see someone poking around that looks out of place I confront them, not everyone is that brazen to do it though and I get that. Some people just call the cops and let them deal with the process.
In hindsight the pastor is in the right but no one knew that prior. You may not have to produce ID but it sure does make mountains out of molehills when you don't.
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another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I believe the kid isn't a minor after the cop checks his ID.
with the strength of police unions it won’t happen
a cop needs to be able to deal with the public no matter if they are polite or not
temporarily switching off a body cam should also result in termination. Tax payers bought them for a reason, at a minimum it’s misusing tax payer dollars. Plus it opens the city up to a lawsuit who ultimately employs them
the individual is being a jerk, the cop in return is being a bully with a badge and a gun. We are allowing police to get away with engaging with people who are trying to get a rise out of them. That’s 3rd grade behaviour from both, we should expect more from a cop
I teach my 9 year old to walk away. That cop needs to go back to elementary school
if the guy was a criminal a cop pulling up would make him run. Then that guy would be gone. Still not an offence that would result in an arrest, but crime prevented
I don't like the idea that someone can be watering my flowers when I'm not home and a neighbor watching my house calls the cops to say that something doesn't look right and they don't do anything.
If he was watering the flowers at 3am does that make a difference?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
What kind of burglar makes a big show of watering flowers so everyone can see him, before breaking into the place? Makes no sense. If the police utilized a little bit of common sense, the whole thing would have been averted.
besides him standing there, you need probable cause a crime is being committed. What specific crime are we talking about and what probable cause?
Suspicion doesn’t rise to that level
cops ask for information all the time. You can choose to give it to them or not. That’s perfectly ok. “Sir, mind if I search your car?” That’s fine, but I can say no. Then he needs to get a judge to sign a warrant in most cases which requires giving some reasonable evidence it’s justified. Asking for id isn’t a search, demanding it is a search and there is a different standard
your first sentence is a problem “who MIGHT not have” that’s speculative it’s different than someone “who DOES not have” the property owners best interests in mind. That gives way,way too much power to the police and government
We live in this roller coaster world of if you see something, say something. But when you do, you're racist. I wouldn't ask a woman to confront a man who she believes is acting suspicious. Maybe he couldn't find the hose and was snooping around. An innocent act but could look suspicious to a neighbor. I wouldn't tell a female neighbor to confront a suspicious man, so I don't know why so many are acting like that would be the normal thing to do.
And maybe she did over react, maybe if she just observed for a few more seconds she would have realized he was just there to water. I don't know.
She saw someone out of place and called the cops. He could have ended this very quickly and chose not to. The only question here for me is what exactly did the cops do when they detained him and was it lawful? I've seen some pretty fluid definitions of an arrest, so not sure what that would have entailed in this case and if any rights were violated in confirming his identity. That would be my only question.
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They dropped the charges! They admitted they were in the wrong, basically. He did not have to supply them with his ID. After all this discussion and reading about the story, how one can still put the blame on the guy who was just watering his neighbor's flowers is beyond me.
Maybe I'm too submissive to the cops but I would have shown my ID and made it a 2 minute transaction.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
try for just a second to see the situation from the perspective of the guy watering the flowers rather than looking at it from the police, and the white neighbours perspective. Everyone is getting the benefit of the doubt except the person who’s rights were in fact violated. You have blamed him several times for not doing something he didn’t have to do
I think your second sentence is more pertinent to general meaning of this thread and has been discussed ad nauseam.
looking at the same situation through two different lenses doesn’t mean it is the same. White people also overwhelmingly believe the police are on their side, not out to get them.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
But if I fear the police I would think the same would apply. You know it's going to escalate if you don't.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
then it just undermines the view of police under the surface as it doesn’t mean they aren’t still mad about it. There is a reason the black community views the police in a vastly different way than the white community. This kind of stuff is one reason
you wouldn’t see all the interactions when someone just complies. Both situations are wrong on the part of the police, but all the complying with unlawful demands how would you even track that? I think it happens way way too often. Since technically it’s providing ID on request, and allowable since you willingly gave it. Even if it’s willingly provided because you know you will get arrested if you don’t. So is it really willingly provided?
I know we have rights but you have to see the forest for the trees sometimes.
he was outside.
That’s trespass. Only enforceable by the owner of the property. You really can’t commit trespass via a third party witness technically
this is police entering private property to determine who has a right to be there on the request of a neighbour. It’s wrong on so many levels regardless of any of the racial components
people are wanting police to stop a crime before it’s committed with no basis to do so. As a property owner I would argue the police trespassed on my property. If there was no probable cause for them to be there they were the ones unauthorised
fundamentally it’s no different than the police deciding one day to randomly walk down my street to do ID checks door to door because they want to and arresting anyone who refuses. It’s just as wrong and neither has any actual justification
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
the police wouldn’t know, it’s none of their business. Minus a crime in progress that they can clearly see, with a warrant, or at the request of the property owner, the police really shouldn’t be on private property at all. Saying otherwise is a terrifying and dangerous precedent for all manner of government intrusion.
I am happy the police checked it out but getting to where it ended is silly.
her presence is not evidence of a crime, you need more than that. Signs of forced entry etc. the police can knock on the door, and my sister can say go away. It’s as simple as that
this case is simply someone being present as evidence of a possible crime. why someone is there or who they are doesn’t matter.