George Floyd Protests

nicknyr15

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

Lol

PJPOWER

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

$12 million doesn’t seem excessive. It’s a big building with lots of equipment. Probably what it would cost to rebuild and replace. Insurance doesn’t matter. You vandalize an insured car, their insurance can go after you for the damages. Try “but they had insurance” as an excuse in court to not pay for something you damaged on purpose.
What does any of this have to do with guns? There’s a thread for that.
Someone torched a public building. You seem upset he’s being held responsible. 

Why would anyone be upset about an arsonist having to be financially responsible for their damages?  And the crime was against the tax paying citizens of the city, not the police.  I’m with ya, and $12 million may deter future arson.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

$12 million doesn’t seem excessive. It’s a big building with lots of equipment. Probably what it would cost to rebuild and replace. Insurance doesn’t matter. You vandalize an insured car, their insurance can go after you for the damages. Try “but they had insurance” as an excuse in court to not pay for something you damaged on purpose.
What does any of this have to do with guns? There’s a thread for that.
Someone torched a public building. You seem upset he’s being held responsible. 

Because gun owners and manufacturers, and particularly “responsible” gun owners are rarely held accountable for the death and destruction they cause.

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

You don't wonder, you wander.

Dumb rebuttal as usual.

Yuck, yuck, hee haw.

jerparker20

PJPOWER said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

$12 million doesn’t seem excessive. It’s a big building with lots of equipment. Probably what it would cost to rebuild and replace. Insurance doesn’t matter. You vandalize an insured car, their insurance can go after you for the damages. Try “but they had insurance” as an excuse in court to not pay for something you damaged on purpose.
What does any of this have to do with guns? There’s a thread for that.
Someone torched a public building. You seem upset he’s being held responsible. 

Why would anyone be upset about an arsonist having to be financially responsible for their damages?  And the crime was against the tax paying citizens of the city, not the police.  I’m with ya, and $12 million may deter future arson.

I believe (would have to double check, but...) this is the third person convicted for involvement in torching the 3rd precinct building. All have received similar sentences (3 years and $10-12 million fine). I’m assuming the heavy fines are being put in place as a deterrent. 

mickeyrat

 

George Floyd Minneapolis Indictments Arrests Death of George Floyd Government and politics Thomas Lane Tou Thao

4 ex-cops indicted on US civil rights charges in Floyd death

By AMY FORLITI and MIKE BALSAMO

26 mins ago

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — A federal grand jury has indicted the four former Minneapolis police officers involved in George Floyd’s arrest and death, accusing them of willfully violating the Black man’s constitutional rights as he was restrained face-down on the pavement and gasping for air.

A three-count indictment unsealed Friday names Derek Chauvin, Thomas Lane, J. Kueng and Tou Thao.

Specifically, Chauvin is charged with violating Floyd's right to be free from unreasonable seizure and unreasonable force by a police officer. Thao and Kueng are also charged with violating Floyd’s right to be free from unreasonable seizure, alleging they did not intervene to stop Chauvin as he knelt on Floyd's neck. All four officers are charged for their failure to provide Floyd with medical care.

Floyd’s arrest and death, which a bystander captured on cellphone video, sparked protests nationwide and widespread calls for an end to police brutality and racial inequities.

Chauvin was also charged in a second indictment, stemming from the arrest and neck restraint of a 14-year-old boy in 2017.

Lane, Thao and Kueng made their initial court appearances Friday via videoconference in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis. Chauvin was not part of the court appearance.

Chauvin was convicted last month on state charges of murder and manslaughter in Floyd’s death and is in Minnesota’s only maximum-security prison as he awaits sentencing. The other three former officers face a state trial in August, and they are free on bond. They were allowed to remain free after Friday's federal court appearance.

Floyd, 46, died May 25 after Chauvin pinned him to the ground with a knee on his neck, even as Floyd, who was handcuffed, repeatedly said he couldn’t breathe. Kueng and Lane also helped restrain Floyd — state prosecutors have said Kueng knelt on Floyd’s back and Lane held down Floyd’s legs. State prosecutors say Thao held back bystanders and kept them from intervening during the 9 1/2-minute restraint.

Chauvin’s attorney, Eric Nelson, argued during his murder trial that Chauvin acted reasonably in the situation and that Floyd died because of underlying health issues and drug use. He has filed a request for a new trial, citing many issues including the judge’s refusal to move the trial due to publicity.

Nelson had no comment on the federal charges Friday. Messages left with attorneys for two of the other officers were not immediately returned, and an attorney for the fourth officer was getting in an elevator and disconnected when reached by The Associated Press.

To bring federal charges in deaths involving police, prosecutors must believe that an officer acted under the “color of law,” or government authority, and willfully deprived someone of their constitutional rights, including the right to be free from unreasonable seizures or the use of unreasonable force. That’s a high legal standard; an accident, bad judgment or simple negligence on the officer’s part isn’t enough to support federal charges.

Roy Austin, who prosecuted such cases as a former deputy assistant attorney general in the Department of Justice’s Civil Rights Division, said prosecutors have to prove that the officers knew what they were doing was wrong in that moment but did it anyway.

Conviction on a federal civil rights charge is punishable by up to life in prison or even the death penalty, but those stiff sentences are extremely rare and federal sentencing guidelines rely on complicated formulas that indicate the officers would get much less if convicted.

In Chauvin’s case, if the federal court uses second-degree murder as his underlying offense, he could face anywhere from 14 years to slightly more than 24 years, depending on whether he takes responsibility, said Mark Osler, a former federal prosecutor and professor at the University of St. Thomas School of Law.

Osler said the guidelines clearly state that any federal sentence would be served at the same time as a state sentence — the sentences wouldn’t stack. Chauvin is due to be sentenced on the state charges June 25.

___

Balsamo reported from Washington.

___

Find AP’s full coverage of the death of George Floyd at: https://apnews.com/hub/death-of-george-floyd

CM189191

^good

CM189191

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

Insurance professional here
Yes, the city would carry property insurance on the police station
However, Civil Unrest would probably be considered an excluded losses (not covered). 
No idea how the city will get their money out of the arsonist.  Like blood from a stone.  City is likely on the hook here (taxpayers).  

mace1229

CM189191 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

Insurance professional here
Yes, the city would carry property insurance on the police station
However, Civil Unrest would probably be considered an excluded losses (not covered). 
No idea how the city will get their money out of the arsonist.  Like blood from a stone.  City is likely on the hook here (taxpayers).  

Even if insurance pays, wouldn’t the insurance company go after the arsonist?

CM189191

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

Insurance professional here
Yes, the city would carry property insurance on the police station
However, Civil Unrest would probably be considered an excluded losses (not covered). 
No idea how the city will get their money out of the arsonist.  Like blood from a stone.  City is likely on the hook here (taxpayers).  

Even if insurance pays, wouldn’t the insurance company go after the arsonist?

Yes.  But again, blood from a stone.   He's on the hook, but they'll never recover that money. 

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Bentleyspop said:

Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss

Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 

Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.

Insurance professional here
Yes, the city would carry property insurance on the police station
However, Civil Unrest would probably be considered an excluded losses (not covered). 
No idea how the city will get their money out of the arsonist.  Like blood from a stone.  City is likely on the hook here (taxpayers).  

Even if insurance pays, wouldn’t the insurance company go after the arsonist?

Yes.  But again, blood from a stone.   He's on the hook, but they'll never recover that money. 

Im sure there’s ways. But probably never close to the full amount. I had a coworker who injured someone in a DUI, they garnished her paycheck for who knows how long. I would imagine if you owed the government $12 million for arson, you’d have garnished wages and never see a tax return. But then I’d set my claims so I always owed and never got a return either.

mickeyrat

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

static111

mickeyrat said:

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

I hope everyone that jumped all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid reads this.  Turns out girl in pink and several other adults were all going after two kids that already had a tough life. Society fails family, society places girl in system, system fails girl, system kills girl, system blames girl...what a shithole country.

mickeyrat

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

I hope everyone that jumped all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid reads this.  Turns out girl in pink and several other adults were all going after two kids that already had a tough life. Society fails family, society places girl in system, system fails girl, system kills girl, system blames girl...what a shithole country.

and the cop saw a raised stesk knife after receiving the call someone's trying to stab us.

HughFreakingDillon

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

I hope everyone that jumped all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid reads this.  Turns out girl in pink and several other adults were all going after two kids that already had a tough life. Society fails family, society places girl in system, system fails girl, system kills girl, system blames girl...what a shithole country.

reading the current evidence, seeing the video, and reading the accounts does not equal "jumping all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid". your descriptions are dripping in over dramatics. 

it IS possible to disagree and not be a racist/killer cop apologist/blue lives matter/whatever other label makes you feel morally superior. 

mace1229

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

I hope everyone that jumped all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid reads this.  Turns out girl in pink and several other adults were all going after two kids that already had a tough life. Society fails family, society places girl in system, system fails girl, system kills girl, system blames girl...what a shithole country.

What does this have to do with the shooting? Is an officer supposed to do a background check when seeing someone lunge with a knife? I don’t see how this changes how the cop responded, what happened in the months prior doesn’t change what happens in that moment.
It might change how we view foster care and how we can better support those kids. Might also impact the others involved in the fight and what role they played leading up to her death. But how does that change the justification when a cop has a split second to decide how to respond to a person lunging with a knife? Unfortunately he only has a couple tenths of a second to decide what to do and not weeks to read up on the background of everyone at the scene.
It seems like you’re criticizing the cop and everyone who isn’t against him for not considering information that didn’t come out until weeks later, when the other girl would have been dead in seconds.

static111

mace1229 said:

static111 said:

mickeyrat said:

more the story.

system failures left and right..

https://news.yahoo.com/makhia-bryants-journey-foster-care-150429468.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio — The voice on the 911 call is a teenage girl’s, and it is quavering, as if she has been crying. “I want to leave this foster home,” she tells t...

I hope everyone that jumped all over themselves to justify the cop killing a kid reads this.  Turns out girl in pink and several other adults were all going after two kids that already had a tough life. Society fails family, society places girl in system, system fails girl, system kills girl, system blames girl...what a shithole country.

What does this have to do with the shooting? Is an officer supposed to do a background check when seeing someone lunge with a knife? I don’t see how this changes how the cop responded, what happened in the months prior doesn’t change what happens in that moment.
It might change how we view foster care and how we can better support those kids. Might also impact the others involved in the fight and what role they played leading up to her death. But how does that change the justification when a cop has a split second to decide how to respond to a person lunging with a knife? Unfortunately he only has a couple tenths of a second to decide what to do and not weeks to read up on the background of everyone at the scene.
It seems like you’re criticizing the cop and everyone who isn’t against him for not considering information that didn’t come out until weeks later, when the other girl would have been dead in seconds.

That information was readily available as soon as this event occurred.  The only difference I have seen is that the girls sister was the one who made the 911 call and not Makhia herself. My point is we should hold cops to a higher standard and the go to move should not be rolling out of your car guns blazing. I’m not even saying no deaths by cops
would be justified.  It’s just interesting that some that should maybe get a use of force like those that commit mass shootings or white people that run down cops with their cars seem to be able to be disarmed and taken into custody after a “hard” day, but a Black child defending herself from a group of adults has no chance and the first and most justified option seems to be multiple gunshots. As for if the “woman in pink” would or would not have been killed if the cop had not shot a child, we will never know. What we do know is that a group o do 20 year olds has no business threatening and intimidating children and had a bully taken a cut or something when threatening and intimidating a child, I would say that would have been much more justified than a police officer killing a child that was trying to defend herself and younger sister from several adults.

i hope this doesn’t come off as too morally superior to anyone.

Merkin Baller

The system failed that girl. 

I can't fault the cop for stopping someone he saw attacking someone else with a knife. 

Poncier

Merkin Baller said:

The system failed that girl. 

I can't fault the cop for stopping someone he saw attacking someone else with a knife. 

Exactly.

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

The system failed that girl. 

I can't fault the cop for stopping someone he saw attacking someone else with a knife. 

People failed her too.