If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
Yeah to say the US never was is just being argumentative or obtuse. But it certainly isn’t right now.
Ohh cool, we are playing alternate past again. Here's one. If Mike Tyson was fighting in the same era as Muhammad Ali, who would be most remembered? My money is on Iron Mike, that uppercut had the worst of intentions.
You're terrible at analogies. I'm asking a question about what someone would have done had a mitigating circumstance been different; one he specifically identified as being the cause of an action. That's quite a bit different than asking what would have Bobby Thompson done had he not known the pitch that was coming. Try harder.
Ohh cool, we are playing alternate past again. Here's one. If Mike Tyson was fighting in the same era as Muhammad Ali, who would be most remembered? My money is on Iron Mike, that uppercut had the worst of intentions.
You're terrible at analogies. I'm asking a question about what someone would have done had a mitigating circumstance been different; one he specifically identified as being the cause of an action. That's quite a bit different than asking what would have Bobby Thompson done had he not known the pitch that was coming. Try harder.
What’s the point in asking the question? The action taken cannot be undone, therefore the answer means/changes nothing. I still enjoy alternate past, and I will try harder next time I feel it is a good time to play.
Ohh cool, we are playing alternate past again. Here's one. If Mike Tyson was fighting in the same era as Muhammad Ali, who would be most remembered? My money is on Iron Mike, that uppercut had the worst of intentions.
You're terrible at analogies. I'm asking a question about what someone would have done had a mitigating circumstance been different; one he specifically identified as being the cause of an action. That's quite a bit different than asking what would have Bobby Thompson done had he not known the pitch that was coming. Try harder.
What’s the point in asking the question? The action taken cannot be undone, therefore the answer means/changes nothing. I still enjoy alternate past, and I will try harder next time I feel it is a good time to play.
The point is my curiosity into his thinking. Is it truly that one incident that led him not to vote, or would the bar move? It's not some complex alternate history. Im not asking about Hitler winning the war or Dewey defeating Truman.
If only not voting meant you got to have some sort of carte blanche on the atrocities committed while the elected are in office. You're just as responsible as the person who voted because there are millions of you thinking that by abstaining you didn't play a part putting that person in power. Your vote may be singular, but the act of voting is not so both action and inaction determine who gets elected.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
And that's exactly why I can't vote for a septuagenarian to be in that position.
And it's why I didn't vote for Barack in 2008 in what was essentially the dude's first real job. I'll admit that my misgivings were completely wrong about the latter. He was the best president of my lifetime. I mean, sure, he ordered drone strikes on US citizens, one a child, but, hey, we all make mistakes, right?
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Dude you live in MA, your vote could finally tip the state blue if you vote for Biden.
I know, right?
This one's too old, this one is too young. I don't like his education platform, but this one has a subpar record on public housing.
Elections are choices and those choices will never align with all of your beliefs. But someone is winning the election.
Elections are choices, folks.
In case y'all didn't know....
And here I thought I was just doing arts and crafts projects all those past elections in which I've partaken.
I have no issue with someone winning the election. That will always be the end result. I've picked many winners, and I've picked many losers.
Finally, I didn't abstain from voting for Obama in 2008 because he was too young; I did so because he was inexperienced. I loved everything the man had to say before and while campaigning, but I couldn't overlook the fact that it seemed a huge job for a person with a half-page résumé. And I admitted that I was wrong. Anyone here ever done that?
It's great that you admit you're wrong. Why aren't you wrong again? Fortunately you're evidently in Massachusetts so maybe you have the luxury of being wrong.
I'm not wrong again because I don't have a time machine to take me to 2024 to see how a possible Biden presidency plays out.
Hindsight is 20/20.
I do hope I'm wrong. But as evidenced in 2008, I don't vote for hope.
And yes, I lived in Brooklyn in 2008 and Massachusetts now, so perhaps I don't feel as compelled as I might if I still resided in my home state of Florida. I also don't have a spore drive to take me an alternate universe in which I never left Florida, so I don't know that either, though.
I understand that I'm wrong in y'all's opinion. Good thing opinions don't matter.
I live in a deep blue state and I will do whatever it takes to vote out trump because after the election I want to go to bed every night knowing I did whatever I could to end his presidency.
You do recognize the big difference between 2017 Trump and 2019 Trump? Point is, back then he could be “handled” by his underlings to some extent, but by now Trump has learned how to exploit the presidency in significant ways. Back then, firing an AG to shut down an investigation into a campaign was something considered impossible, something not even the evil Nixon could pull off. Trump proved it was easy and many didn’t even notice. They take Barr as legitimate and the crimes committed against Clinton as bogus. Now trump bulldozes protesters with tear gas and the military and if you don’t think a second trump term would be significantly more authoritarian i am not sure what you are seeing. The office of the presidency will be significantly damaged should trump get another term.
voting against trump is not political. It is necessary to preserve democracy. And a good nights sleep.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
The fact that you think that size of military is a reasonable metric for “leadership of the free world“ confirms that your definition of leadership is diametrically opposed to mine.
If I was going to make a list of countries showing true leadership, I would be looking at metrics such as leading an effective pandemic response, leading in climate change action, leading in social justice and equity, leading in life expectancy and measures of public health, and leading in quality of life, to name a few.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
Yeah to say the US never was is just being argumentative or obtuse. But it certainly isn’t right now.
You act like I have to chose between being argumentative and obtuse. I’m quite sure I can be both.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
The fact that you think that size of military is a reasonable metric for “leadership of the free world“ confirms that your definition of leadership is diametrically opposed to mine.
If I was going to make a list of countries showing true leadership, I would be looking at metrics such as leading an effective pandemic response, leading in climate change action, leading in social justice and equity, leading in life expectancy and measures of public health, and leading in quality of life, to name a few.
I already stated that Trump ceded that leadership. I also said that it was an expression that was historically true. You asked how so, and GDP is a pretty important factor. If you don't think the US has not dominated the post war era, then you are being argumentative. And if you don't think economic power isn't the single most important influence in the world, then you're being delusional.
If only not voting meant you got to have some sort of carte blanche on the atrocities committed while the elected are in office. You're just as responsible as the person who voted because there are millions of you thinking that by abstaining you didn't play a part putting that person in power. Your vote may be singular, but the act of voting is not so both action and inaction determine who gets elected.
I suspect this is true for many that sit out. No president is perfect and they want to be able to say... I didn't vote for him.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
The fact that you think that size of military is a reasonable metric for “leadership of the free world“ confirms that your definition of leadership is diametrically opposed to mine.
If I was going to make a list of countries showing true leadership, I would be looking at metrics such as leading an effective pandemic response, leading in climate change action, leading in social justice and equity, leading in life expectancy and measures of public health, and leading in quality of life, to name a few.
I already stated that Trump ceded that leadership. I also said that it was an expression that was historically true. You asked how so, and GDP is a pretty important factor. If you don't think the US has not dominated the post war era, then you are being argumentative. And if you don't think economic power isn't the single most important influence in the world, then you're being delusional.
How bizarre. You’re completely misrepresenting what is plain to see in these posts. The dialogue went nothing like that.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
The fact that you think that size of military is a reasonable metric for “leadership of the free world“ confirms that your definition of leadership is diametrically opposed to mine.
If I was going to make a list of countries showing true leadership, I would be looking at metrics such as leading an effective pandemic response, leading in climate change action, leading in social justice and equity, leading in life expectancy and measures of public health, and leading in quality of life, to name a few.
I already stated that Trump ceded that leadership. I also said that it was an expression that was historically true. You asked how so, and GDP is a pretty important factor. If you don't think the US has not dominated the post war era, then you are being argumentative. And if you don't think economic power isn't the single most important influence in the world, then you're being delusional.
How bizarre. You’re completely misrepresenting what is plain to see in these posts. The dialogue went nothing like that.
I summarized from my perspective, and I went back and think I’m right. And the historical context of the phrase is about leading the economic and military opposition to tyrannical states, not social metrics. Last, this is a distraction from the main point.. that voting for school levies, local issues, etc., is not in the same ballpark as voting at the top of the ticket.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
And that's exactly why I can't vote for a septuagenarian to be in that position.
And it's why I didn't vote for Barack in 2008 in what was essentially the dude's first real job. I'll admit that my misgivings were completely wrong about the latter. He was the best president of my lifetime. I mean, sure, he ordered drone strikes on US citizens, one a child, but, hey, we all make mistakes, right?
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Dude you live in MA, your vote could finally tip the state blue if you vote for Biden.
I know, right?
This one's too old, this one is too young. I don't like his education platform, but this one has a subpar record on public housing.
Elections are choices and those choices will never align with all of your beliefs. But someone is winning the election.
Elections are choices, folks.
In case y'all didn't know....
And here I thought I was just doing arts and crafts projects all those past elections in which I've partaken.
I have no issue with someone winning the election. That will always be the end result. I've picked many winners, and I've picked many losers.
Finally, I didn't abstain from voting for Obama in 2008 because he was too young; I did so because he was inexperienced. I loved everything the man had to say before and while campaigning, but I couldn't overlook the fact that it seemed a huge job for a person with a half-page résumé. And I admitted that I was wrong. Anyone here ever done that?
It's great that you admit you're wrong. Why aren't you wrong again? Fortunately you're evidently in Massachusetts so maybe you have the luxury of being wrong.
I'm not wrong again because I don't have a time machine to take me to 2024 to see how a possible Biden presidency plays out.
Hindsight is 20/20.
I do hope I'm wrong. But as evidenced in 2008, I don't vote for hope.
And yes, I lived in Brooklyn in 2008 and Massachusetts now, so perhaps I don't feel as compelled as I might if I still resided in my home state of Florida. I also don't have a spore drive to take me an alternate universe in which I never left Florida, so I don't know that either, though.
I understand that I'm wrong in y'all's opinion. Good thing opinions don't matter.
Well I guess the question is, did you learn anything from your decision in 08. Rhetorical.
Btw, did you vote for Obama in 12?
I did not vote for Obama in 2012 (see drone strikes on US citizens, one a child).
So, had Obama not ordered that particular strike, or if that 16 year old wasn't where he was, you would have voted for Obama. Is that right?
That is incorrect.
I had scruples with his cavalier attitude toward drone strikes in civilian territories from jump street (see awful 2010 correspondents dinner joke). The shock of the strikes on the al-Alwakis and the weak defense and handling of the last one that killed a child were likely the last straws, but I can’t recall my exact line of thinking in 2012.
I do know that I was quite appalled and disappointed by his ever-increasing drone casualties and torture records around then, though. I expected that shit to die down when he took office, but the exact opposite occurred.
That air strike on the MSF hospital in Afghanistan during his second term was also a massive fuckup. At least we got a “my bad” out of him for that one, though.
I wonder if the Nobel Prize committee has ever considered revoking his 2009 Peace prize? He’s gotta be the recipient with the bloodiest hands.
Still, I’ll say it again: He was the best US president in my lifetime. But what does that that say about this country?
Edit: I’ll also admit that I had a soft spot for Romney. He was a decent governor. And then he basically tried to pretend that his years and record as governor of Massachusetts never existed. So I couldn’t vote for him either.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
And that's exactly why I can't vote for a septuagenarian to be in that position.
And it's why I didn't vote for Barack in 2008 in what was essentially the dude's first real job. I'll admit that my misgivings were completely wrong about the latter. He was the best president of my lifetime. I mean, sure, he ordered drone strikes on US citizens, one a child, but, hey, we all make mistakes, right?
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Dude you live in MA, your vote could finally tip the state blue if you vote for Biden.
I know, right?
This one's too old, this one is too young. I don't like his education platform, but this one has a subpar record on public housing.
Elections are choices and those choices will never align with all of your beliefs. But someone is winning the election.
Elections are choices, folks.
In case y'all didn't know....
And here I thought I was just doing arts and crafts projects all those past elections in which I've partaken.
I have no issue with someone winning the election. That will always be the end result. I've picked many winners, and I've picked many losers.
Finally, I didn't abstain from voting for Obama in 2008 because he was too young; I did so because he was inexperienced. I loved everything the man had to say before and while campaigning, but I couldn't overlook the fact that it seemed a huge job for a person with a half-page résumé. And I admitted that I was wrong. Anyone here ever done that?
It's great that you admit you're wrong. Why aren't you wrong again? Fortunately you're evidently in Massachusetts so maybe you have the luxury of being wrong.
I'm not wrong again because I don't have a time machine to take me to 2024 to see how a possible Biden presidency plays out.
Hindsight is 20/20.
I do hope I'm wrong. But as evidenced in 2008, I don't vote for hope.
And yes, I lived in Brooklyn in 2008 and Massachusetts now, so perhaps I don't feel as compelled as I might if I still resided in my home state of Florida. I also don't have a spore drive to take me an alternate universe in which I never left Florida, so I don't know that either, though.
I understand that I'm wrong in y'all's opinion. Good thing opinions don't matter.
Well I guess the question is, did you learn anything from your decision in 08. Rhetorical.
Btw, did you vote for Obama in 12?
I did not vote for Obama in 2012 (see drone strikes on US citizens, one a child).
So, had Obama not ordered that particular strike, or if that 16 year old wasn't where he was, you would have voted for Obama. Is that right?
That is incorrect.
I had scruples with his cavalier attitude toward drone strikes in civilian territories from jump street (see awful 2010 correspondents dinner joke). The shock of the strikes on the al-Alwakis and the weak defense and handling of the last one that killed a child were likely the last straws, but I can’t recall my exact line of thinking in 2012.
I do know that I was quite appalled and disappointed by his ever-increasing drone casualties and torture records around then, though. I expected that shit to die down when he took office, but the exact opposite occurred.
That air strike on the MSF hospital in Afghanistan during his second term was also a massive fuckup. At least we got a “my bad” out of him for that one, though.
I wonder if the Nobel Prize committee has ever considered revoking his 2009 Peace prize? He’s gotta be the recipient with the bloodiest hands.
Still, I’ll say it again: He was the best US president in my lifetime. But what does that that say about this country?
I can’t think of any president that wouldn’t have an innocent life taken under their command and control. Nor can I think of any world leader with that type of clean record. I think you are running into the complexities and intersections of human nature, power, and the nation state. I’m not sure there is a person that meets your standard that is in politics.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
Time and passed time to dial back on the “leader of the free world” rhetoric, because the US is far from that these days, if it ever really was.
It was, and it still moves the needle far more than any other individual country does.
It's also a saying. So while you may disagree, I don't see any huge threads dedicated to Trudeau, Merkel, Xi, etc.
Thread topics on this forum is in no way an accurate measurement of world impact, I would say.
Ok got a better one? How about our economic impact? GDP perhaps? Ours is 20 trillion. The next closest is 12 trillion. Canada is 1.6. Size of military? I think you know where that stands.
Yeah to say the US never was is just being argumentative or obtuse. But it certainly isn’t right now.
You act like I have to chose between being argumentative and obtuse. I’m quite sure I can be both.
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
And by tired tropes that likely just showed up in the finger waggers' Facebook/Twitter feeds at that.
I guess the hope is to keep repeating them until someone else who lacks critical thinking skills accepts them as facts.
Wonder who else I've seen do that...?
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Not meaningless, but likely less meaningful. No offense to a school levy, but leader of the free world has further reaching consequences.
And that's exactly why I can't vote for a septuagenarian to be in that position.
And it's why I didn't vote for Barack in 2008 in what was essentially the dude's first real job. I'll admit that my misgivings were completely wrong about the latter. He was the best president of my lifetime. I mean, sure, he ordered drone strikes on US citizens, one a child, but, hey, we all make mistakes, right?
If there's an enthusiasm problem, it's probably because enough voters haven't been properly scolded
Oh, and I guess the 20 or so other votes I cast on election day -- all pro-fascist, of course -- are meaningless. But the one vote I might leave blank is the only one that matters.
Dude you live in MA, your vote could finally tip the state blue if you vote for Biden.
I know, right?
This one's too old, this one is too young. I don't like his education platform, but this one has a subpar record on public housing.
Elections are choices and those choices will never align with all of your beliefs. But someone is winning the election.
Elections are choices, folks.
In case y'all didn't know....
And here I thought I was just doing arts and crafts projects all those past elections in which I've partaken.
I have no issue with someone winning the election. That will always be the end result. I've picked many winners, and I've picked many losers.
Finally, I didn't abstain from voting for Obama in 2008 because he was too young; I did so because he was inexperienced. I loved everything the man had to say before and while campaigning, but I couldn't overlook the fact that it seemed a huge job for a person with a half-page résumé. And I admitted that I was wrong. Anyone here ever done that?
It's great that you admit you're wrong. Why aren't you wrong again? Fortunately you're evidently in Massachusetts so maybe you have the luxury of being wrong.
I'm not wrong again because I don't have a time machine to take me to 2024 to see how a possible Biden presidency plays out.
Hindsight is 20/20.
I do hope I'm wrong. But as evidenced in 2008, I don't vote for hope.
And yes, I lived in Brooklyn in 2008 and Massachusetts now, so perhaps I don't feel as compelled as I might if I still resided in my home state of Florida. I also don't have a spore drive to take me an alternate universe in which I never left Florida, so I don't know that either, though.
I understand that I'm wrong in y'all's opinion. Good thing opinions don't matter.
Well I guess the question is, did you learn anything from your decision in 08. Rhetorical.
Btw, did you vote for Obama in 12?
I did not vote for Obama in 2012 (see drone strikes on US citizens, one a child).
So, had Obama not ordered that particular strike, or if that 16 year old wasn't where he was, you would have voted for Obama. Is that right?
That is incorrect.
I had scruples with his cavalier attitude toward drone strikes in civilian territories from jump street (see awful 2010 correspondents dinner joke). The shock of the strikes on the al-Alwakis and the weak defense and handling of the last one that killed a child were likely the last straws, but I can’t recall my exact line of thinking in 2012.
I do know that I was quite appalled and disappointed by his ever-increasing drone casualties and torture records around then, though. I expected that shit to die down when he took office, but the exact opposite occurred.
That air strike on the MSF hospital in Afghanistan during his second term was also a massive fuckup. At least we got a “my bad” out of him for that one, though.
I wonder if the Nobel Prize committee has ever considered revoking his 2009 Peace prize? He’s gotta be the recipient with the bloodiest hands.
Still, I’ll say it again: He was the best US president in my lifetime. But what does that that say about this country?
Edit: I’ll also admit that I had a soft spot for Romney. He was a decent governor. And then he basically tried to pretend that his years and record as governor of Massachusetts never existed. So I couldn’t vote for him either.
Civilian Territories when dealing with terrorists?
Democratic presidential candidate former Vice President Joe Biden takes selfies with guests during a campaign rally at Coastal Carolina University on February 27, 2020 in Conway, South Carolina.
SCOTT OLSON / GETTY IMAGES
Some Democrats are worried about former Vice President Joe Biden’s ability to appeal to younger voters. After all, the presumptive Democratic nominee struggled immensely to win young voters in the primary: From the Iowa caucuses through the March 17 primaries, Biden won just 22 percent of the vote among those younger than 45 years old, according to the exit polls,1 compared to 51 percent among those 45 and older.
Yet for all the concern, Biden isn’t actually doing that much worse among younger voters than Hillary Clinton did in the 2016 election. Looking at data from about 90 national polls conducted since April 1, Biden’s margins among different groups of younger voters is about the same — or just a tad worse — than Clinton’s margins were four years ago. (Pollsters don’t use the same age brackets, so there is some overlap in the different age groups.)
Biden’s young voter support only slightly trails Clinton’s
Comparison of Hillary Clinton’s 2016 vote margin and the average margin in national head-to-head polls between Joe Biden and President Trump since April 1, by different age groups
AGE GROUP
CLINTON 2016 MARGIN
BIDEN 2020 MARGIN
DIFFERENCE
18 to 29
+22.9
+24.1
+1.2
18 to 34
+21.7
+19.0
-2.7
18 to 44
+16.7
+16.1
-0.6
30 to 44
+12.1
+10.9
-1.2
35 to 44
+8.8
+9.6
+0.8
35 to 49
+7.9
+5.9
-2.0
Polls were averaged by pollster to avoid overweighting one pollster.
For instance, Clinton won voters under the age of 45 by about 17 percentage points, according to the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, a survey of more than 60,000 voters organized by Harvard University and administered by YouGov, while Biden led by an average of 16 points among this group in polls conducted in the last two months. In fact, in each of the age groups we looked at, Biden’s margin ranged from about 1 point better than Clinton’s to just 3 points worse.2
In other words, Biden may not excite young voters, but this isn’t necessarily going to be an Achilles’ heel for his campaign either, especially considering Biden may be in a stronger position with older voters.
There was a fair amount of variation in how Biden did among younger voters in the polls we looked at, though. For example, while Morning Consult and YouGov both found Biden leading among voters aged 18 to 29 by an average of about 20 points over the past two months, they differed quite a bit when it came to voters aged 30 to 44. Morning Consult gave Biden an average lead of 6 points compared to YouGov’s 12 points. And although Data for Progress’s surveys gave Biden an average lead of 23 points among those aged 18 to 34, Firehouse Strategies/Øptimus only gave him an edge of 12 points across its tracking polls for that age group. But it’s hard to unpack what some of these differences might mean for Biden, as ultimately it may have less to do with different pollsters picking up different trends and more with sampling methodologies, house effects and the larger margins of error often seen in smaller sample sizes like age groups.
Still, even though Biden isn’t doing poorly with young voters, these polls don’t hint at whether he will have a turnout problem in November, which is arguably Biden’s biggest concern when it comes to young voters. Younger voters overwhelmingly lean Democratic, but they also turn out at much lower rates than older voters: Only 43 percent of eligible voters under the age of 30 voted in 2016, compared with 71 percent of voters 60 and older, according to census data compiled by the United States Elections Project. It’s not impossible to imagine a lack of enthusiasm for Biden and dislike of Trump leading to low participation among younger voters. For instance, a May Yahoo News/YouGov survey of registered voters found that 15 percent of respondents under 30 preferred a third-party candidate to Biden or Trump, which was the highest share of any age group (the next-highest was 6 percent among 30- to 44-year-olds).
Then again, it’s possible that young voters’ distaste for Trump could help Biden, as younger voters really don’t like the president. The Harvard Institute of Politics Youth Poll found in March that 66 percent of voters ages 18 to 29 disapproved of Trump’s job performance, and a May Fox News poll found 56 percent of voters under 45 disapproved. In other words, if November is treated as a referendum on Trump’s performance, it could push more young voters into Biden’s column even if they aren’t enthused by his candidacy.
What’s more, Biden may be able to overcome his shortcomings with younger Americans if his numbers among older voters hold true. It’s not just our analysis that finds Biden outperforming Clinton among older voters. Survey data from the Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape project also suggests that Biden’s strength among older voters isn’t a short-term, coronavirus-induced flash in the pan — in their polling, Biden has led Trump among voters 45 and older since last fall. These numbers could be pivotal, too, because older Americans will likely make up a large majority of voters — in 2012 and 2016, voters 45 and older constituted a little over 60 percent of the electorate, according to Census Bureau data.
Of course, Biden will still want to gin up enthusiasm among young voters. Tellingly, his campaign already took a page out of Sen. Bernie Sanders’s playbook by backing a plan to forgive college debt among many low- and middle-income borrowers. But even if Biden can’t improve on Clinton’s 2016 performance among young voters, polling thus far suggests he’s not really doing that much worse than she did. Biden’s problem with younger voters might be an exaggerated one at best.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,389
Oh fuck yes. W has to come out and endorse him. You know he wants too.
I actually just ordered that Last Republicans book about him and his dad. Supposed to be delivered today.
I thought he should have endorsed Hillary four years ago. Because you know he wanted to. Who would he rather have as president? Hillary? Let's face it, the Bushes and Clintons are friends. Or Trump, who spend the primary insulting his brother Jeb and even his mother Barbara? There's no doubt the Bush family would prefer Biden. Like you, I'd love to see an endorsement as well. It'd be an actual meaningful endorsement.
Oh fuck yes. W has to come out and endorse him. You know he wants too.
I actually just ordered that Last Republicans book about him and his dad. Supposed to be delivered today.
I thought he should have endorsed Hillary four years ago. Because you know he wanted to. Who would he rather have as president? Hillary? Let's face it, the Bushes and Clintons are friends. Or Trump, who spend the primary insulting his brother Jeb and even his mother Barbara? There's no doubt the Bush family would prefer Biden. Like you, I'd love to see an endorsement as well. It'd be an actual meaningful endorsement.
Yeah that was disappointing. Now, though, there's no going back if he wins again. I think he knows that. This super pac is a welcomed sign.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote. I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful protests off and on in the last days. When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire that’s when I bow out. If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting. If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge. Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona. If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote. I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful protests off and on in the last days. When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire that’s when I bow out. If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting. If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge. Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona. If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
What about those of us that didn't go out there and protest due to COVID? Did your decision to go out there speak for me? And now I have to go vote in person because you were willing to protest? Am I missing your point?
If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote. I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful protests off and on in the last days. When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire that’s when I bow out. If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting. If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge. Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona. If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
You may have quoted the wrong story...this one suggests that a victory for Biden is likely to result in a constitutional crises, as Trump will almost certainly refuse to leave. We could go into inauguration with two, or even three, people laying claim to the presidency. High voter turnout is not that important (except that it would hopefully help widen Biden's margin, possibly reducing the GOP's desire to back a Trump coup).
He's whining about "voter fraud" because he intends to stay, win or lose.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,389
Biden
More bad news from Trump. These are Fox News polls too...
So Obama can be the VP? The last I read is that no law exists addressing this situation either way. In fact, which I could be wrong, then Biden could resign and there you go..please correct me if I’m wrong because I wouldn’t bet money that I’m right...it sounds too easy
Comments
You do recognize the big difference between 2017 Trump and 2019 Trump? Point is, back then he could be “handled” by his underlings to some extent, but by now Trump has learned how to exploit the presidency in significant ways. Back then, firing an AG to shut down an investigation into a campaign was something considered impossible, something not even the evil Nixon could pull off. Trump proved it was easy and many didn’t even notice. They take Barr as legitimate and the crimes committed against Clinton as bogus. Now trump bulldozes protesters with tear gas and the military and if you don’t think a second trump term would be significantly more authoritarian i am not sure what you are seeing. The office of the presidency will be significantly damaged should trump get another term.
voting against trump is not political. It is necessary to preserve democracy. And a good nights sleep.
And if you don't think economic power isn't the single most important influence in the world, then you're being delusional.
Hampton 2016
I do know that I was quite appalled and disappointed by his ever-increasing drone casualties and torture records around then, though. I expected that shit to die down when he took office, but the exact opposite occurred.
Edit: I’ll also admit that I had a soft spot for Romney. He was a decent governor. And then he basically tried to pretend that his years and record as governor of Massachusetts never existed. So I couldn’t vote for him either.
Interesting. How many crossovers will Biden get?
C'mon dk.
Also, I look forward to the 45 Alumni For Harris in 15 years. These heroic Trump staffers will help us take out Tom Cotton!
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/biden-doesnt-really-have-a-young-voters-problem/
Biden Doesn’t Really Have A Young Voters Problem
By Geoffrey Skelley
Filed under 2020 Election
SCOTT OLSON / GETTY IMAGES
Some Democrats are worried about former Vice President Joe Biden’s ability to appeal to younger voters. After all, the presumptive Democratic nominee struggled immensely to win young voters in the primary: From the Iowa caucuses through the March 17 primaries, Biden won just 22 percent of the vote among those younger than 45 years old, according to the exit polls,1 compared to 51 percent among those 45 and older.
Yet for all the concern, Biden isn’t actually doing that much worse among younger voters than Hillary Clinton did in the 2016 election. Looking at data from about 90 national polls conducted since April 1, Biden’s margins among different groups of younger voters is about the same — or just a tad worse — than Clinton’s margins were four years ago. (Pollsters don’t use the same age brackets, so there is some overlap in the different age groups.)
Biden’s young voter support only slightly trails Clinton’s
Comparison of Hillary Clinton’s 2016 vote margin and the average margin in national head-to-head polls between Joe Biden and President Trump since April 1, by different age groups
Polls were averaged by pollster to avoid overweighting one pollster.
SOURCE: COOPERATIVE CONGRESSIONAL ELECTION STUDY, POLLS
For instance, Clinton won voters under the age of 45 by about 17 percentage points, according to the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, a survey of more than 60,000 voters organized by Harvard University and administered by YouGov, while Biden led by an average of 16 points among this group in polls conducted in the last two months. In fact, in each of the age groups we looked at, Biden’s margin ranged from about 1 point better than Clinton’s to just 3 points worse.2
In other words, Biden may not excite young voters, but this isn’t necessarily going to be an Achilles’ heel for his campaign either, especially considering Biden may be in a stronger position with older voters.
There was a fair amount of variation in how Biden did among younger voters in the polls we looked at, though. For example, while Morning Consult and YouGov both found Biden leading among voters aged 18 to 29 by an average of about 20 points over the past two months, they differed quite a bit when it came to voters aged 30 to 44. Morning Consult gave Biden an average lead of 6 points compared to YouGov’s 12 points. And although Data for Progress’s surveys gave Biden an average lead of 23 points among those aged 18 to 34, Firehouse Strategies/Øptimus only gave him an edge of 12 points across its tracking polls for that age group. But it’s hard to unpack what some of these differences might mean for Biden, as ultimately it may have less to do with different pollsters picking up different trends and more with sampling methodologies, house effects and the larger margins of error often seen in smaller sample sizes like age groups.
Still, even though Biden isn’t doing poorly with young voters, these polls don’t hint at whether he will have a turnout problem in November, which is arguably Biden’s biggest concern when it comes to young voters. Younger voters overwhelmingly lean Democratic, but they also turn out at much lower rates than older voters: Only 43 percent of eligible voters under the age of 30 voted in 2016, compared with 71 percent of voters 60 and older, according to census data compiled by the United States Elections Project. It’s not impossible to imagine a lack of enthusiasm for Biden and dislike of Trump leading to low participation among younger voters. For instance, a May Yahoo News/YouGov survey of registered voters found that 15 percent of respondents under 30 preferred a third-party candidate to Biden or Trump, which was the highest share of any age group (the next-highest was 6 percent among 30- to 44-year-olds).
Then again, it’s possible that young voters’ distaste for Trump could help Biden, as younger voters really don’t like the president. The Harvard Institute of Politics Youth Poll found in March that 66 percent of voters ages 18 to 29 disapproved of Trump’s job performance, and a May Fox News poll found 56 percent of voters under 45 disapproved. In other words, if November is treated as a referendum on Trump’s performance, it could push more young voters into Biden’s column even if they aren’t enthused by his candidacy.
What’s more, Biden may be able to overcome his shortcomings with younger Americans if his numbers among older voters hold true. It’s not just our analysis that finds Biden outperforming Clinton among older voters. Survey data from the Democracy Fund + UCLA Nationscape project also suggests that Biden’s strength among older voters isn’t a short-term, coronavirus-induced flash in the pan — in their polling, Biden has led Trump among voters 45 and older since last fall. These numbers could be pivotal, too, because older Americans will likely make up a large majority of voters — in 2012 and 2016, voters 45 and older constituted a little over 60 percent of the electorate, according to Census Bureau data.
Of course, Biden will still want to gin up enthusiasm among young voters. Tellingly, his campaign already took a page out of Sen. Bernie Sanders’s playbook by backing a plan to forgive college debt among many low- and middle-income borrowers. But even if Biden can’t improve on Clinton’s 2016 performance among young voters, polling thus far suggests he’s not really doing that much worse than she did. Biden’s problem with younger voters might be an exaggerated one at best.
I actually just ordered that Last Republicans book about him and his dad. Supposed to be delivered today.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
He's whining about "voter fraud" because he intends to stay, win or lose.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin