Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!
Comments
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Biden
If I knew it was all true I would vote for neither. Either withhold my vote or vote 3rd party. In fact my belief is that if we get to the level where we have two sex offenders whom we somehow know to truthfully be guilty yet haven’t been found so in the court of law and still think that is a viable choice for president, then we would deserve to have trump just drive it all the way into the ground.The Juggler said:
Nah.static111 said:
The original premise was if we found this and all of trumps accusations to be true, no? Well being true would have to be proven and my understanding (not a lawyer) is that in America unless something can be proven legally in this case it isn’t true. So in the imaginary scenario for the accusations to be true wouldn’t both candidates have been found guilty and been convicted of being sex offenders. I didn’t add anything, the premise is that they are convicted by virtue of the truth of their guilt.The Juggler said:
Except...you added the word "convicted," for some reason, which is obviously an enormous difference.static111 said:
I never said we did. I was playing along with the imaginary scenario.mrussel1 said:
We still don't.static111 said:
To my knowledge in my lifetime we have not ever had convicted sex offenders on the ballot for President. At the risk of dating myself my first election was in 2000. So please elaborate on when USA had to vote between two convicted sex offenders for president.The Juggler said:
You make it seem like we've never had that "choice" before? Kind of naive of you, one would say...static111 said:
Not vote and protest along with the many others that would be out on the streets pissed that we have voted for the lesser of two evils for so long that we had the “choice” of which sex offender would be the president.The Juggler said:
Why are you afraid to answer my question? I'll ask again:JimmyV said:
Yes, you do need to be little more pure than a known sex offender. And if this turns out to be true, that's what he'll be.gimmesometruth27 said:
there's that purity test again.JimmyV said:The Juggler said:
Yeah but what if we find out Trump's 20+ accusations are true though? To make it fair, what would you do in that situation?JimmyV said:The Juggler said:
If you assume this one is true, would you then not have to assume the 20+ Trump accusations are true too?JimmyV said:
If this is true, it's not just an accusation anymore. That's an important point and key to what I'm saying.The Juggler said:
It's basically a guy who can actually do the job, with one accusation verses a guy, who with a second term might very well end the world with twenty times as many accusations.JimmyV said:If this is true I would be off the Biden train.
It's not even a question in my mind .
I mean there really is no way of knowing for sure either way. But it's like Al Franken verse Bill Cosby to some extent here....one is clearly worse than the other in my mind.
I'm not assuming anything. I'm saying that if we FIND OUT THAT THIS IS TRUE then I won't be voting for Biden. Full stop.
We're talking about a he said/she said from 30 years ago (and in Trump's case within the last 10-15 years). We will never know for sure either way.
"Yeah but Trump" is not going to work here. If we find out that Biden did this, he should not be the nominee. None of us should have to vote for him to defeat Trump.
What if we find out this accusation is true....and then we also find out all of Trump's 25 accusations are true.
Both are the nominees.
What would you do?
That's precisely not what the premise was. If Trump or Biden were found guilty by a court of law, neither party would nominate them. I don't believe it's even possible in this case due statute of limitations.
The question was simply if we knew Biden's accusation was true and Trump's 25 accusations were true....what would you do?
And again, we've had nominees run for president with similar accusations before.That being said I don’t find the accusations against Biden credible at all.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
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Bidenpjl44 said:
He's against women's choice and weak on environment- almost to the point of being a climate change denier. Nothing happening there.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Biden
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.pjl44 said:0 -
I'm sitting this one out
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.mrussel1 said:
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.pjl44 said:0 -
I'm sitting this one out
Also, I demand a new poll option if he wins the nomination so I can change my flairmrussel1 said:
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.pjl44 said:0 -
Biden
Isn't it a paradox to take a pro life stance as a libertarian? Now if it's his personal belief, that's different. I would probably consider myself pro life but I support choice for everyone.pjl44 said:
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.mrussel1 said:
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.pjl44 said:0 -
Biden
Notedpjl44 said:0 -
I'm sitting this one out
Believe it or not, it's one issue where there's a big split within the party. It's the nature of the whole argument, right? When do individual rights begin? I'd describe my stance similarly to yours. For what it's worth, this is from the 2020 Libertarian Party platform:mrussel1 said:
Isn't it a paradox to take a pro life stance as a libertarian? Now if it's his personal belief, that's different. I would probably consider myself pro life but I support choice for everyone.pjl44 said:
Yeah, he's not a zealot. I'm really interested to see where he plants a flag on issues. To Brian's points, he describes himself as pro-life but I'm almost certain I've seen him say abortion should be legal into the second trimester. And I've never really heard him talk about environmental issues, but I'd be stunned if he were a climate change denier.mrussel1 said:
That's such a great meme. Im not a fan of many of his stances, but I respect his principled nature. And he doesn't strike me as being so principled that's he's intractable.pjl44 said:
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BidenI'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I'm sitting this one out
It is the longest of longshots but it's a weird year. For one thing, large campaign rallies and tons of travel are pretty much out. Does that give him an advantage or even more of a disadvantage? Who knows? As a sharp 40yo person of color, he'll at least stand in contrast.brianlux said:I'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
Libertarians generally pull more from the Republican vote. 2016 was an anomaly where Johnson pulled evenly from both. Either way, they've never pulled more from Democrats like the Greens. Not that I would discourage anyone from voting Green if that's their thing.0 -
JimmyV said:If this is true I would be off the Biden train.And we are right back to the email server.0
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Bidenpjl44 said:
It is the longest of longshots but it's a weird year. For one thing, large campaign rallies and tons of travel are pretty much out. Does that give him an advantage or even more of a disadvantage? Who knows? As a sharp 40yo person of color, he'll at least stand in contrast.brianlux said:I'll admit one thing- Amash would be better than Trump. And I hate to spoil the party, but does anyone really think America is going to elect an Independent for president? And if people vote for Amash, isn't that just going to make a second term Trump presidency more likely? Horrors!
Libertarians generally pull more from the Republican vote. 2016 was an anomaly where Johnson pulled evenly from both. Either way, they've never pulled more from Democrats like the Greens. Not that I would discourage anyone from voting Green if that's their thing.One thing for sure, I would take Amash over Trump any day.In 2016 I voted Green Party. In the long run, it didn't matter because I knew Hillary would capture all of California's Electoral College numbers. In 2020, Biden will do the same and even though he is not nearly my first pick, I'll vote for him anyway because I not only want to see Trump lose, I would love to see Trump lose by HUGE numbers. He deserves that kind of shaming."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
BidenAmash is a complete joke.
Libertarianism is a complete joke.
That is all.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
BidenLerxst1992 said:JimmyV said:If this is true I would be off the Biden train.And we are right back to the email server.Except we're not, because her emails and having committed sexual assault are not AT ALL the same. What we are back to is the Democrats burying their heads in the sand about potential problems with their nominee.For about the 30th time, I'm not convinced he did this and if the election were held today he would get my vote. That's more than I could ever say about HRC.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments.pjl44 said:
I should have listened to @JW269453CM189191 said:
🙄pjl44 said:
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.CM189191 said:
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.pjl44 said:
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for TrumpCM189191 said:
Thx for thoughtful answer.pjl44 said:
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.CM189191 said:
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix.
Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face.
Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing.
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.0 -
Biden
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.CM189191 said:
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments.pjl44 said:
I should have listened to @JW269453CM189191 said:
🙄pjl44 said:
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.CM189191 said:
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.pjl44 said:
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for TrumpCM189191 said:
Thx for thoughtful answer.pjl44 said:
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.CM189191 said:
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix.
Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face.
Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing.
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
pjl44 said:
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for TrumpCM189191 said:
Thx for thoughtful answer.pjl44 said:
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.CM189191 said:
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
Every vote for Amash would be in effect a vote for trump.
I know you will point to history that Rs are more likely to vote libertarian. But that's old world logic.
In the current world Republicans fall in line. 2016 proved that. Ds need to fall in love. That's why dirty politics hurts Ds more.Amash is taking a huge risk and will only help trump
We are already seeing the attempt to prevent Ds from falling in love with Biden with the actions of Tara Email Server Reade.
She had 30 years to file charges, rally her "witnesses " or publicly attack Biden. But she doesnt attack til now.
Why would that be?0 -
I'm tired of dancing around peoples' fee-fees.rgambs said:
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.CM189191 said:
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments.pjl44 said:
I should have listened to @JW269453CM189191 said:
🙄pjl44 said:
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.CM189191 said:
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.pjl44 said:
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for TrumpCM189191 said:
Thx for thoughtful answer.pjl44 said:
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.CM189191 said:
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix.
Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face.
Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing.
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Libertarians can't elect a goddamn dog-catcher, and they want the presidency?
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions.
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Biden
Fee-fees lolCM189191 said:
I'm tired of dancing around peoples' fee-fees.rgambs said:
Your tone is awful, just awful, but you're not wrong. Not wrong at all.CM189191 said:
Seriously, this kind of shortsightedness has cost 2 supreme court justice seats, and countless federal judge appointments.pjl44 said:
I should have listened to @JW269453CM189191 said:
🙄pjl44 said:
I only picked sitting out because there was no Libertarian option. If Amash runs and gets the nomination, easy one for me. If it's Jim Gray, I'd vote for him but not be terribly passionate. The rest of the field is no bueno and I'm back to sitting out.CM189191 said:
Seems like voting voting Biden is the logical option for you then. Voting D obviously gets the country closer to where you want it to be. It may not be the perfect option, but it's a compromise. And that's what our government is built on.pjl44 said:
I can't think of anything that could get me to vote for TrumpCM189191 said:
Thx for thoughtful answer.pjl44 said:
Pick Jared Polis as VP? The Democrats this cycle, Biden included, haven't really focused on issues that I look to them for - less militarism, criminal justice reform, drug policy. There's been much more of a focus on stuff I disagree with - government run health care to varying degrees, student loan forgiveness, etc. A lot of stuff that I think is bad economic policy.CM189191 said:
What would it take to get you to vote for Trump?
What would it take for you not to 'sit this one out'?
I don't understand why any citizen would do that.
Biden doesn't bring anything to the table for me, like I said. My support would be about Polis, which is not a thing that's going to happen. I could have similarly explained all the ways Republicans have drifted away from the things I relied on them for, but I'm pretty sure no one around here is interested in that.
The US government is a two-party system. Our checks and balances lie in the three branches of government. We are not a multi-party system. Voting libertarian represents a fundamental misunderstanding of how our government functions.
These are lifetime appointments that will take a generation to fix.
Because people with your Veruca Salt mentality would rather cut their nose off to spite their face.
Lifetime appointments that will side in favor of more militarism, no criminal justice reform, no drug policy reform. You get nothing.
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions. Enjoy your shit sandwich.
Libertarians can't elect a goddamn dog-catcher, and they want the presidency?
Fundamental lack of understanding of how our government functions.
Love it.
I'm not one of the guppies, I can handle it 😜Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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