For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified. And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?
I don't see him lasting as a problem. The problem is more likely that he will continue to slip mentally.
I love Biden. I think he's a great president. I also think that his slip ups are not really alarming at all. The optics are horrible...no doubt about that, but he is clearly still able to function as a great president.
Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,420
Biden
from MuellerSheWrote
host of the Jack , Clean Up on Aisle 45 , and Daily Beans podcasts
One of my favorite comedians and actors Eddie Izzard famously said “70% is how you look, 20% is how you sound, and 10% is what you say.” Then - hand on her heart - she launched into a rendition of The Star Spangled Banner, singing the wrong lyrics loudly and with wild expression: “And fish in the sky! And a big monkey pie!”
Joe Biden only had that last 10% going for him during Thursday’s debate, and even then it wasn’t the best. He looked sick. He sounded quiet. He was unable to fact check the two-minute chunks of lie avalanches spewed by his racist felon opponent. He was and ill-prepared. Those who watched it can’t deny that. And I’m not going to.
My first thought was “Oh, Christ. The Media is going to do what they did with the Mueller congressional testimony. They’ll say he didn’t have PIZAZZ and they’ll keep harping on their “he’s too old” narrative and ignore substance along with the dystopian xenophobic nazi shit that Trump said.” But what the media actually did was bizarre to me. They started calling for Biden to drop out of the race altogether. Four months before the election. Beyond ballot access deadlines. And a lot of them were calling for Biden to be replaced with folks OTHER than our amazing and capable Vice President Kamala Harris.
What. The. Fuck.
Whether you think Biden should step aside or not, we can all agree trump must be defeated in November. It seems that we each have our own ideas about the best way to do that. Ousting the incumbent four months ahead of the election with ballot access deadlines on top of us seems like a really bad idea to me. Maybe if it happened all the time, we’d have some successful historical precedent to point to. But history shows us the incumbent is by far the best candidate.
Obama flubbed his debate with Romney. John Kerry knocked all three of his debates out of the park. 20 million fewer people watched this debate than the 2020 Biden/Trump debate, and three of four post-debate polls show no movement. Debates are meaningless and history shows that. Newsweek even reported undecideds had flipped to Biden after the debate mostly because of the firehose of lies that came from Donald Trump. Biden raised over $40M in the 48 hours following the debate, and the hour after the debate ended was the single biggest grassroots fundraising haul of the entire campaign. Trump’s post-debate fundraising paled in comparison.
Again, I’m not insinuating that Biden didn’t do well. But one of the most fervent and angry replies I get from people - mostly men - responding to the fact that I still back Joe is that I’m “gaslighting” them because they saw his performance “with their own eyes.” That totally misses the point. I saw the debate, too. I’ve never said Joe knocked it out of the park, or even did well for that matter. My problem is when they call ME crazy for not wanting Biden to step aside based on one bad debate performance. Talk about gaslighting!
Look. Had Biden gone on to the campaign headquarters later Thursday night and sounded the same as he did during the debate, or had he sounded similar later on when he went to the Waffle House, or if he sounded terrible the next day in North Carolina - then SURE we can have a discussion about persistent underperformance and capability. But the debate was clearly an anomaly. One that Bob Woodward says should be investigated. I’m not going to make excuses without facts. We know he had a cold. We know he got better as the debate progressed. We know he rocked it later that night and the following two days. But we don’t know what we don’t know so I won’t speculate on why he did poorly Thursday. I’ll let investigative journalists uncover that.
I won’t speculate because at this point, it doesn’t matter. What matters is pundits with megaphones calling for Biden to step aside with no real plan to beat trump in that scenario. If these folks truly believe that replacing Biden now is our best chance to beat Trump in November, they’re basing that opinion on feelings, not facts. Experts I trust tell us that entertaining changing course at this late stage is a ridiculous exercise in futility. And I wish it were only that. But the repeated calls rooted in fear and panic will do more damage - in my estimation - than a bad debate performance ever could.
I don’t see how dividing us with fear and panic will help defeat Trump in November. And if defeating Trump is really their goal, then they should realize the damage they’re doing and knock it the fuck off.
I also have a darker take on why they’re doing this: so that if somehow Trump wins, they can blame us for running Joe Biden. They are desperate to be right so they can score editorial points and shift the blame off of them for dividing dems and onto some mythical scenario that wouldn’t have ever worked. It happened with some Bernie supporters in 2016 - as if dems would have defeated Trump if Bernie were the nominee even though Bernie couldn’t get the votes in primaries. They did it with Merrick Garland - using debunked talking points to somehow blame him for the fact that Trump’s picks on the Supreme Court have successfully delayed Trump’s coup trial for over six months. It feels like a set up so they can say “I told you so” later with no real evidence that they would have been right.
After I watched the debate, I was sad and anxious, but it never crossed my mind to call for Joe to step aside. That was never an option because in my mind it would be electoral suicide. Any other scenario besides Biden and Harris would fracture the party in a race that’s already too close for comfort (if the polls are to be believed - which I’m not convinced of, but why risk it?) I thought “Well, time to circle the wagons. We can’t spin this performance so we need a strong message going forward.” The very next day, we saw the “Get Back Up Again” speech. PERFECT!
I assume the polls will take a hit (mainly because the media and pundits are out here scaring the shit out of everyone and telling them how they should feel), but that we’d bounce back. That was it. It wasn’t a big deal. Until - just as they did with Hillary’s emails in 2016 - the media made it a big deal.
I was also certain that level-headed electeds wouldn’t call for Joe to step aside over one debate, and they haven’t. Hillary, Obama, Jeffries - everyone’s still with Joe despite the media. I also hope and believe that all the folks who are calling for him to step aside will still back him and vote for him and roll up their sleeves for Joe if he doesn’t step aside. New York Times excluded - who has had it in for Joe for a long time now. But I don’t care much about the opinion of an editorial board that opposed women’s suffrage and put Hitler on a pedestal. I’ve canceled my Times subscription, along with my Atlanta Journal Constitution and New Yorker subscriptions. I’ve cancelled all advertising with those publications across my podcast network. I’ve subscribed to the Philly Inquirer who countered with an editorial board piece calling for TRUMP to step aside as the republican candidate.
I think it’s a mistake to call for Joe to stand down because facts and history tell me he’s the best chance we have to defeat Donald Trump, AND because he’s the best person for the job based on the past 3.5 years of incredible leadership. If things somehow change, I’ll always back the Dems, just as I have in every election, all the way down the ballot since my first election in 1992. But I never entertained for a second the possibility of calling for Joe to step aside sending our party into upheaval four months ahead of the most important election of our lifetime.
My support for the Biden/Harris ticket is unwavering, and I’m proud that I’ll never have to walk back comments on any of my podcasts.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,420
Biden
From John Pavlovitz
Essay series A Beautiful Mess
So, what is actually happening here?
In the wake of the first presidential debate, I’ve watched members of the media, high profile talking heads, and millions of voters frantically pushing the panic button, calling for Joe Biden to step down and encouraging sky-is-falling histrionics.
Now, I expect this from a cultic Republican Party prostrate before a traitorous sociopath and a myopic media intoxicated on the circus of sewage he daily generates, but seeing it from supposedly rational people who claim to be awake and paying attention to the issues is disheartening.
Yes, Joe Biden is old. He was old when he won four years ago.
He’s also an intelligent, compassionate, reasonable human being who has served this nation faithfully and is currently serving it at an extremely high level.
He is a proven leader who understands the diplomacy, nuance, and compromise required to get things accomplished.
He deftly led this nation following an insurrection, through COVID, and out of an inflation that much of the world is still in the throes of.
He has continued to combat price gouging, student loan debt, gas prices, and a myriad of attacks on human rights, while contending with the most openly corrupt, brazenly traitorous, and violently predatory cadre of Republicans in Congress in our history.
And the most shortsighted (and frankly ignorant move) for any Americans of voting age not swept up in the MAGA cult, is making this about Joe Biden alone to begin with. This is about the team of qualified and responsible adults he has surrounded himself with and the agenda of his party as a whole—which when contrasted with the alternative shouldn’t require a second thought.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans stacked the Supreme Court with lawless monsters. Joe Biden is old. Republicans joyously overturned Roe V Wade and are targeting IVF and birth control. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are putting the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are coming for marriage rights, voting rights, Social Security, and Medicare. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are legislating the Bible. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are banning books and outlawing gender-affirming care. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are protecting guns instead of school children. Joe Biden is old. Republicans are planning Project 2025 to immediately establish theocracy. Joe Biden is old. Donald Trump is a court-established rapist and fraud who tried to pay off a porn star to manipulate an election and he is likely guilty of high crimes against this nation and is being shielded by judges who are beholden to him.
This is the moment when we as Americans need to embody our best, most sober, most serious selves and to refuse to be distracted by the noise intended to move us from the task of defending the most elemental freedoms we are so perilously close to losing.
Now, a note to young and first time voters: I understand that seeing too older white guys in suits makes it difficult to get excited about voting and makes it easy to assume that there are similarities between the candidates, but regardless of what the media and TikTok commentators may say, this simply isn’t true. They differ in nearly every meaningful way.
It’s important to understand that you have been born into women’s, marriage, healthcare, and voting rights that were not always realities, even if you have always experienced them. For decades, they were fought tirelessly for by Democrats including Joe Biden. These rights are under relentless attacks by Donald Trump and the Republicans and they will be torn away if they are allowed to seize power. Women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, people of color, Muslims, Jews, there will be no group spared. Your voice is critical in protecting them.
And to progressive/liberal voters who insist on feeding the narrative that the two parties are equally dangerous, I would suggest that this is both intellectually dishonest and factually ridiculous. Regardless of whatever grievances you have against Joe Biden and the Democrats, when you subtract emotional catharsis and the easy high of middle finger posturing, and you look objectively at the bodies of work of the two parties; the legislation they’ve supported, the substance of their platforms, and the nation they’re actively working for and making—any false equivalencies are reckless.
Many have said that such talk is an effort to shame you, but honestly, if you can hold the reality of all that you’ve seen and experienced since Trump commandeered the Republican Party and all that is at stake in November, and act as if opting out or protest voting is a responsible choice—you should be ashamed. We don’t get dream candidates who tick every box of our preferences. We get flawed people and parties and the specific results of those we elevate to power through our participation or our abstinence.
If the Dems lose in November, America loses.
And if the Dems lose, it won't be Joe Biden or the DNC who will be to blame. It will be Left-leaning voters who allowed the media and the Right to manipulate them into fueling the firestorm of meaningless distractions of age and public speaking prowess—when they should have focused on the human, civil, and environmental protections they will be pissing away with a Republican victory.
The sole reason Biden ran in 2020 was that he saw the urgency of the moment, realized Trump would likely win, and wanted to spare America a second disastrous second term—and he did. It seems far too many people want to toss this fact aside as prisoners of the momentary news cycle.
If President Biden decides to step out of the race then we should passionately embrace whoever replaces him but until that moment comes or if it does not, he and his Administration and party are all that stands between America and its demise.
If Joe Biden’s age or his speaking style or his physical appearance or his debate performance are more important to you than beating back the fascism breathing down our collective necks you’re failing America and you need to do better.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I haven’t seen anyone here say Trump is an amazing candidate (I haven’t read every single comment, so maybe there’s an exception). For the most part, there’s those who think Biden can still perform and hate Trump. And then there's who think both are lacking what it needs to be president. Because you are critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status doesn’t mean you’re a Maga (I.e. doesn’t mean your more concerned about physical looks than the job).
And performances like the debate are important. If a week’s of training and that’s what you get, what’s going to happen when he’s woken up at 3 am in the next crisis, the next 9/11, and has to make world-altering decisions at a moments notice? That doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns about trump. I used to think there’d be at least 1 option for someone who could handle a crisis, now I’m not so sure.
I haven’t seen anyone here say Trump is an amazing candidate (I haven’t read every single comment, so maybe there’s an exception). For the most part, there’s those who think Biden can still perform and hate Trump. And then there's who think both are lacking what it needs to be president. Because you are critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status doesn’t mean you’re a Maga (I.e. doesn’t mean your more concerned about physical looks than the job).
And performances like the debate are important. If a week’s of training and that’s what you get, what’s going to happen when he’s woken up at 3 am in the next crisis, the next 9/11, and has to make world-altering decisions at a moments notice? That doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns about trump. I used to think there’d be at least 1 option for someone who could handle a crisis, now I’m not so sure.
Agree with you 100%. I'm critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status BECAUSE I want to see a credible alternative to Trump.
For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified. And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?
Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?
Absolutely it was. Far more alarming considering how many people saw Trump's Sharknado vs Teslaboat speech compared to how many people saw the debate. And the demographics matter as well. A few hundred thousand MAGA's see Trump's rally and laugh about it and 10's of millions of undecideds/independents are amongst those who see Joe short circuit multiple times during the debate.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
GOOD point. I'm up for that!
Yeah, if we had the right people in there who would do the right thing: Getting them BOTH to drop out, but we don't.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
GOOD point. I'm up for that!
Yeah, if we had the right people in there who would do the right thing: Getting them BOTH to drop out, but we don't.
If only they would both agree to drop out and both conventions had to actually floor vote in their candidate. That would be awesome and what this country needs right now. Drop dead or drop out 2024!
For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified. And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?
you said "25 biden in the first year", which is what I was referring to. that's not the same as just installing a VP to succeed if he can't finish his term naturally.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
That's from the 2020 Dem. primary cycle
so can we speculate that this does not hold true in 2024? you know, since harris was on the ticket that was elected and is currently in office?
it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
That's from the 2020 Dem. primary cycle
so can we speculate that this does not hold true in 2024? you know, since harris was on the ticket that was elected and is currently in office?
it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
You said "you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man" when black voters preferred a "white man" first and second last time there was a primary option. Unless you have something that shows otherwise, you're just making things up.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
That's from the 2020 Dem. primary cycle
so can we speculate that this does not hold true in 2024? you know, since harris was on the ticket that was elected and is currently in office?
it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
You said "you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man" when black voters preferred a "white man" first and second last time there was a primary option. Unless you have something that shows otherwise, you're just making things up.
you think they would accept harris being replaced by a white man? i seriously doubt some of them will, but you we are both entitled to our opinions.
i think it would be a stupid move, but typical of elected democrats. most of them are scared of their own shadow and do not have the guts for what this moment requires.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
That's from the 2020 Dem. primary cycle
so can we speculate that this does not hold true in 2024? you know, since harris was on the ticket that was elected and is currently in office?
it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
You said "you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man" when black voters preferred a "white man" first and second last time there was a primary option. Unless you have something that shows otherwise, you're just making things up.
you think they would accept harris being replaced by a white man? i seriously doubt some of them will, but you we are both entitled to our opinions.
i think it would be a stupid move, but typical of elected democrats. most of them are scared of their own shadow and do not have the guts for what this moment requires.
I honestly have no idea. If you were certain they would though couldn't you just go to Klobuchar, Jefferies, Booker, whomever? No one says it has to be a white guy.
she wasn't first place for POTUS, but I agree with gimme that if they were to replace her on the ticket with a white dude, there would be hell to pay. It's not racism. It's demographics.
you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man. it isn't going to happen. biden and harris is the ticket. harris has been the vp for 4 years already, which makes her more qualified than anybody else right now.
also, why the fuck are people not calling for trump to drop out? you know, convicted felon, wholly unfit for office, russian asset, anti american, etc, etc.
The soft racism of assumptions about black voters
how recent was that poll? sanders is not even in the conversation the last 3 years. nor is warren.
That's from the 2020 Dem. primary cycle
so can we speculate that this does not hold true in 2024? you know, since harris was on the ticket that was elected and is currently in office?
it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
You said "you people are crazy to think for one second that african americans and women will just overlook biden replacing harris with another white man" when black voters preferred a "white man" first and second last time there was a primary option. Unless you have something that shows otherwise, you're just making things up.
you think they would accept harris being replaced by a white man? i seriously doubt some of them will, but you we are both entitled to our opinions.
i think it would be a stupid move, but typical of elected democrats. most of them are scared of their own shadow and do not have the guts for what this moment requires.
I honestly have no idea. If you were certain they would though couldn't you just go to Klobuchar, Jefferies, Booker, whomever? No one says it has to be a white guy.
everyone on here was calling for gavin. he's a white dude. nobody calling for any of the others you listed. about the same number calling for sanders and warren. none.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
she wasn't first place for POTUS, but I agree with gimme that if they were to replace her on the ticket with a white dude, there would be hell to pay. It's not racism. It's demographics.
what the dems have to be wary of is making people stay at home. they are not going to turn women and minorities to trump, but they will definitely not make them come out for biden and some other candidate. every vote counts. polls do not matter. votes do.
i do believe the dems will shoot themselves in the foot though. they always do. they don't have the gall to play like the gop.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified. And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?
you said "25 biden in the first year", which is what I was referring to. that's not the same as just installing a VP to succeed if he can't finish his term naturally.
Yeah, I said the first year because if it’s going to happen, I’d bet it’s sooner than later in his term. I said before, there’s been concern for months but it was always dismissed. Now everyone saw it, it’s going to be harder to dismiss it and blame right media in the future the next time he’s on stage shaking the hand of a ghost. I have always found it kind of funny, you couldn’t go a week without people complaining about Trump taking days off. But Biden takes even more time off and hardly a peep from those same people. He’s taken about 40% of the time off, more than anyone else. I’m starting to wonder can he actually work a full week? Can he fly over seas and keep up with a full schedule? Now that it is in the mind of everyone and can’t just brush it off, my guess is you’ll hear more about it in the future.
not many people honestly give two shits about how much time the prez takes off, as long as the work gets done. the main issue with people pointing it out with trump is that he consistently lied about it (SHOCKER). He consistently stated he was working when everyone knew he wasn't. If he had just kept his fat orange mouth shut, no one would have said anything about it. And keep in mind, it was the republicans that first started making a big deal out of Obama's "executive time".
it's the same thing with his weight. No one would be shaming him if he didn't keep telling people ridiculously obvious lies about his weight and height.
part of me believes it, another part of me knows that in situations like these, the vultures who just want to get on primetime tv come out and embellish stuff.
part of me believes it, another part of me knows that in situations like these, the vultures who just want to get on primetime tv come out and embellish stuff.
part of me believes it, another part of me knows that in situations like these, the vultures who just want to get on primetime tv come out and embellish stuff.
It's Carl Bernstein reporting on CNN
I know who it is and what he's doing. Just take it all with a grain of salt.
Flight Risk out NOW!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 41,017
For one, I’d say the chances of him lasting 4.5 more years is less than 50/50. So may as well put the person in the VP spot who you’d want to be the one to take over. I don’t see that as immoral if it’s justified. And second, when did being immoral stop those seeded deep within DC anyway?
I don't see him lasting as a problem. The problem is more likely that he will continue to slip mentally.
I love Biden. I think he's a great president. I also think that his slip ups are not really alarming at all. The optics are horrible...no doubt about that, but he is clearly still able to function as a great president.
Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?
Exactly what I more or less have tried to say here.
The other thing I have been thinking is this: half of the people who most want Biden to step down are democrats trying to make a name for themselves and the other half are MAGA republicans who know that Biden stepping down will seal it for Trump winning. Some folks would rather be "right" about their assessment of Biden's mental state, even if it means have Trump become president. Biden is not going to step down. A lot of people would do well to stop fantasizing and deal with reality.
I'm not in denial about the fact that Biden is not always sharp as a tack, and that sometimes he just flat out flounders. I get it! I'm 73 and sometimes I flounder. I haven't burned the house down or been told to stop selling books and records, but if someone said I should step down, do I let one of the rodents that occasionally invade our house do my job? It's a fair analogy. We either get not-always-on-his-game Biden as president, or dictator megalomania pathological liar crazy Trump to be president just like you either get me to be a bookseller, or one of the rats in the attic.
True, the choice SUCKS! But we have to suck it up, because that's the reality. Democracy, and our freedom, and the stability of the world we live in is at stake.
We need to deal with reality.
We need to choose wisely.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
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I love Biden. I think he's a great president. I also think that his slip ups are not really alarming at all. The optics are horrible...no doubt about that, but he is clearly still able to function as a great president.
Was his loss of his train of thought really any more alarming than tRump's stupid word vomit about batteries and sharks?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
One of my favorite comedians and actors Eddie Izzard famously said “70% is how you look, 20% is how you sound, and 10% is what you say.” Then - hand on her heart - she launched into a rendition of The Star Spangled Banner, singing the wrong lyrics loudly and with wild expression: “And fish in the sky! And a big monkey pie!”
Joe Biden only had that last 10% going for him during Thursday’s debate, and even then it wasn’t the best. He looked sick. He sounded quiet. He was unable to fact check the two-minute chunks of lie avalanches spewed by his racist felon opponent. He was and ill-prepared. Those who watched it can’t deny that. And I’m not going to.
My first thought was “Oh, Christ. The Media is going to do what they did with the Mueller congressional testimony. They’ll say he didn’t have PIZAZZ and they’ll keep harping on their “he’s too old” narrative and ignore substance along with the dystopian xenophobic nazi shit that Trump said.” But what the media actually did was bizarre to me. They started calling for Biden to drop out of the race altogether. Four months before the election. Beyond ballot access deadlines. And a lot of them were calling for Biden to be replaced with folks OTHER than our amazing and capable Vice President Kamala Harris.
What. The. Fuck.
Whether you think Biden should step aside or not, we can all agree trump must be defeated in November. It seems that we each have our own ideas about the best way to do that. Ousting the incumbent four months ahead of the election with ballot access deadlines on top of us seems like a really bad idea to me. Maybe if it happened all the time, we’d have some successful historical precedent to point to. But history shows us the incumbent is by far the best candidate.
Obama flubbed his debate with Romney. John Kerry knocked all three of his debates out of the park. 20 million fewer people watched this debate than the 2020 Biden/Trump debate, and three of four post-debate polls show no movement. Debates are meaningless and history shows that. Newsweek even reported undecideds had flipped to Biden after the debate mostly because of the firehose of lies that came from Donald Trump. Biden raised over $40M in the 48 hours following the debate, and the hour after the debate ended was the single biggest grassroots fundraising haul of the entire campaign. Trump’s post-debate fundraising paled in comparison.
Again, I’m not insinuating that Biden didn’t do well. But one of the most fervent and angry replies I get from people - mostly men - responding to the fact that I still back Joe is that I’m “gaslighting” them because they saw his performance “with their own eyes.” That totally misses the point. I saw the debate, too. I’ve never said Joe knocked it out of the park, or even did well for that matter. My problem is when they call ME crazy for not wanting Biden to step aside based on one bad debate performance. Talk about gaslighting!
Look. Had Biden gone on to the campaign headquarters later Thursday night and sounded the same as he did during the debate, or had he sounded similar later on when he went to the Waffle House, or if he sounded terrible the next day in North Carolina - then SURE we can have a discussion about persistent underperformance and capability. But the debate was clearly an anomaly. One that Bob Woodward says should be investigated. I’m not going to make excuses without facts. We know he had a cold. We know he got better as the debate progressed. We know he rocked it later that night and the following two days. But we don’t know what we don’t know so I won’t speculate on why he did poorly Thursday. I’ll let investigative journalists uncover that.
I won’t speculate because at this point, it doesn’t matter. What matters is pundits with megaphones calling for Biden to step aside with no real plan to beat trump in that scenario. If these folks truly believe that replacing Biden now is our best chance to beat Trump in November, they’re basing that opinion on feelings, not facts. Experts I trust tell us that entertaining changing course at this late stage is a ridiculous exercise in futility. And I wish it were only that. But the repeated calls rooted in fear and panic will do more damage - in my estimation - than a bad debate performance ever could.
I don’t see how dividing us with fear and panic will help defeat Trump in November. And if defeating Trump is really their goal, then they should realize the damage they’re doing and knock it the fuck off.
I also have a darker take on why they’re doing this: so that if somehow Trump wins, they can blame us for running Joe Biden. They are desperate to be right so they can score editorial points and shift the blame off of them for dividing dems and onto some mythical scenario that wouldn’t have ever worked. It happened with some Bernie supporters in 2016 - as if dems would have defeated Trump if Bernie were the nominee even though Bernie couldn’t get the votes in primaries. They did it with Merrick Garland - using debunked talking points to somehow blame him for the fact that Trump’s picks on the Supreme Court have successfully delayed Trump’s coup trial for over six months. It feels like a set up so they can say “I told you so” later with no real evidence that they would have been right.
After I watched the debate, I was sad and anxious, but it never crossed my mind to call for Joe to step aside. That was never an option because in my mind it would be electoral suicide. Any other scenario besides Biden and Harris would fracture the party in a race that’s already too close for comfort (if the polls are to be believed - which I’m not convinced of, but why risk it?) I thought “Well, time to circle the wagons. We can’t spin this performance so we need a strong message going forward.” The very next day, we saw the “Get Back Up Again” speech. PERFECT!
I assume the polls will take a hit (mainly because the media and pundits are out here scaring the shit out of everyone and telling them how they should feel), but that we’d bounce back. That was it. It wasn’t a big deal. Until - just as they did with Hillary’s emails in 2016 - the media made it a big deal.
I was also certain that level-headed electeds wouldn’t call for Joe to step aside over one debate, and they haven’t. Hillary, Obama, Jeffries - everyone’s still with Joe despite the media. I also hope and believe that all the folks who are calling for him to step aside will still back him and vote for him and roll up their sleeves for Joe if he doesn’t step aside. New York Times excluded - who has had it in for Joe for a long time now. But I don’t care much about the opinion of an editorial board that opposed women’s suffrage and put Hitler on a pedestal. I’ve canceled my Times subscription, along with my Atlanta Journal Constitution and New Yorker subscriptions. I’ve cancelled all advertising with those publications across my podcast network. I’ve subscribed to the Philly Inquirer who countered with an editorial board piece calling for TRUMP to step aside as the republican candidate.
I think it’s a mistake to call for Joe to stand down because facts and history tell me he’s the best chance we have to defeat Donald Trump, AND because he’s the best person for the job based on the past 3.5 years of incredible leadership. If things somehow change, I’ll always back the Dems, just as I have in every election, all the way down the ballot since my first election in 1992. But I never entertained for a second the possibility of calling for Joe to step aside sending our party into upheaval four months ahead of the most important election of our lifetime.
My support for the Biden/Harris ticket is unwavering, and I’m proud that I’ll never have to walk back comments on any of my podcasts.
Thanks for hanging in there with me.
~AG
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
So, what is actually happening here?
In the wake of the first presidential debate, I’ve watched members of the media, high profile talking heads, and millions of voters frantically pushing the panic button, calling for Joe Biden to step down and encouraging sky-is-falling histrionics.
Now, I expect this from a cultic Republican Party prostrate before a traitorous sociopath and a myopic media intoxicated on the circus of sewage he daily generates, but seeing it from supposedly rational people who claim to be awake and paying attention to the issues is disheartening.
Yes, Joe Biden is old. He was old when he won four years ago.
He’s also an intelligent, compassionate, reasonable human being who has served this nation faithfully and is currently serving it at an extremely high level.
He is a proven leader who understands the diplomacy, nuance, and compromise required to get things accomplished.
He deftly led this nation following an insurrection, through COVID, and out of an inflation that much of the world is still in the throes of.
He has continued to combat price gouging, student loan debt, gas prices, and a myriad of attacks on human rights, while contending with the most openly corrupt, brazenly traitorous, and violently predatory cadre of Republicans in Congress in our history.
And the most shortsighted (and frankly ignorant move) for any Americans of voting age not swept up in the MAGA cult, is making this about Joe Biden alone to begin with. This is about the team of qualified and responsible adults he has surrounded himself with and the agenda of his party as a whole—which when contrasted with the alternative shouldn’t require a second thought.
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Joe Biden is old. Republicans stacked the Supreme Court with lawless monsters.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans joyously overturned Roe V Wade and are targeting IVF and birth control.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are putting the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are coming for marriage rights, voting rights, Social Security, and Medicare.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are legislating the Bible.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are banning books and outlawing gender-affirming care.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are protecting guns instead of school children.
Joe Biden is old. Republicans are planning Project 2025 to immediately establish theocracy.
Joe Biden is old. Donald Trump is a court-established rapist and fraud who tried to pay off a porn star to manipulate an election and he is likely guilty of high crimes against this nation and is being shielded by judges who are beholden to him.
This is the moment when we as Americans need to embody our best, most sober, most serious selves and to refuse to be distracted by the noise intended to move us from the task of defending the most elemental freedoms we are so perilously close to losing.
Now, a note to young and first time voters: I understand that seeing too older white guys in suits makes it difficult to get excited about voting and makes it easy to assume that there are similarities between the candidates, but regardless of what the media and TikTok commentators may say, this simply isn’t true. They differ in nearly every meaningful way.
It’s important to understand that you have been born into women’s, marriage, healthcare, and voting rights that were not always realities, even if you have always experienced them. For decades, they were fought tirelessly for by Democrats including Joe Biden. These rights are under relentless attacks by Donald Trump and the Republicans and they will be torn away if they are allowed to seize power. Women, LGBTQ people, immigrants, people of color, Muslims, Jews, there will be no group spared. Your voice is critical in protecting them.
And to progressive/liberal voters who insist on feeding the narrative that the two parties are equally dangerous, I would suggest that this is both intellectually dishonest and factually ridiculous. Regardless of whatever grievances you have against Joe Biden and the Democrats, when you subtract emotional catharsis and the easy high of middle finger posturing, and you look objectively at the bodies of work of the two parties; the legislation they’ve supported, the substance of their platforms, and the nation they’re actively working for and making—any false equivalencies are reckless.
Many have said that such talk is an effort to shame you, but honestly, if you can hold the reality of all that you’ve seen and experienced since Trump commandeered the Republican Party and all that is at stake in November, and act as if opting out or protest voting is a responsible choice—you should be ashamed. We don’t get dream candidates who tick every box of our preferences. We get flawed people and parties and the specific results of those we elevate to power through our participation or our abstinence.
If the Dems lose in November, America loses.
And if the Dems lose, it won't be Joe Biden or the DNC who will be to blame. It will be Left-leaning voters who allowed the media and the Right to manipulate them into fueling the firestorm of meaningless distractions of age and public speaking prowess—when they should have focused on the human, civil, and environmental protections they will be pissing away with a Republican victory.
The sole reason Biden ran in 2020 was that he saw the urgency of the moment, realized Trump would likely win, and wanted to spare America a second disastrous second term—and he did. It seems far too many people want to toss this fact aside as prisoners of the momentary news cycle.
If President Biden decides to step out of the race then we should passionately embrace whoever replaces him but until that moment comes or if it does not, he and his Administration and party are all that stands between America and its demise.
If Joe Biden’s age or his speaking style or his physical appearance or his debate performance are more important to you than beating back the fascism breathing down our collective necks you’re failing America and you need to do better.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I haven’t seen anyone here say Trump is an amazing candidate (I haven’t read every single comment, so maybe there’s an exception). For the most part, there’s those who think Biden can still perform and hate Trump. And then there's who think both are lacking what it needs to be president. Because you are critical of Biden and concerned about his mental status doesn’t mean you’re a Maga (I.e. doesn’t mean your more concerned about physical looks than the job).
And performances like the debate are important. If a week’s of training and that’s what you get, what’s going to happen when he’s woken up at 3 am in the next crisis, the next 9/11, and has to make world-altering decisions at a moments notice? That doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns about trump. I used to think there’d be at least 1 option for someone who could handle a crisis, now I’m not so sure.
And the demographics matter as well. A few hundred thousand MAGA's see Trump's rally and laugh about it and 10's of millions of undecideds/independents are amongst those who see Joe short circuit multiple times during the debate.
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"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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it can be implied that some african american and women voters may sit out out of spite if she is replaced. can't risk that happening at this point.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i think it would be a stupid move, but typical of elected democrats. most of them are scared of their own shadow and do not have the guts for what this moment requires.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
i do believe the dems will shoot themselves in the foot though. they always do. they don't have the gall to play like the gop.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I said before, there’s been concern for months but it was always dismissed. Now everyone saw it, it’s going to be harder to dismiss it and blame right media in the future the next time he’s on stage shaking the hand of a ghost.
I have always found it kind of funny, you couldn’t go a week without people complaining about Trump taking days off. But Biden takes even more time off and hardly a peep from those same people. He’s taken about 40% of the time off, more than anyone else. I’m starting to wonder can he actually work a full week? Can he fly over seas and keep up with a full schedule? Now that it is in the mind of everyone and can’t just brush it off, my guess is you’ll hear more about it in the future.
it's the same thing with his weight. No one would be shaming him if he didn't keep telling people ridiculously obvious lies about his weight and height.
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