Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
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Biden was an absolute disaster. I've spoken to people on their deathbeds that appeared with more strength and vitality and coherence than him. I'm not confident they can erase this with messaging.
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
since the debate debacle, I’ve been considering whether this is the first time a political party was scrambling publicly to replace a candidate. But that’s incorrect
2016, Donald Trump, immediately after the release of the Access Hollywood tape
He stayed in the race and won, when almost everyone predicted he will lose. Don’t believe Dems will be as lucky this time.
since the debate debacle, I’ve been considering whether this is the first time a political party was scrambling publicly to replace a candidate. But that’s incorrect
2016, Donald Trump, immediately after the release of the Access Hollywood tape
He stayed in the race and won, when almost everyone predicted he will lose. Don’t believe Dems will be as lucky this time.
The difference was Donald Trump was being judged as a candidate, rather than a cult leader. He excels as the latter.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Here's the "takeaway" (since that's the latest buzz word) as I see it, from tonight's debate:
In the debate earlier this evening there occurred what I see as a defining moment as to where we are at regarding the highest political level in the U.S. That moment happened when two old men running for the highest office in our country started to argue about their golfing handicaps. Right out of my mouth came the words, "Are you shitting me?" That moment was both embarrassing and disgraceful.
Now, granted, anyone with half a brain (and, amazingly, there apparently are a hell of a lot of people with less than that) will understand why Joe Biden is the better choice of candidates for president of the United States. He may be old, he may be tired, but he is not a bald-faced liar, he's not a convicted felon, and he still believes in democracy. But that said, we as a nation are at an extremely low point in our history. Maybe not the lowest ever, but when we reach a low of this magnitude, it can only mean trouble. It's unsettling to me to think about how serious the situation is. It's simply that bad.
I watched five minutes and had to turn it off. Biden sounds like an old feeble man. Is he the smarter of the two? Yes. Does he look like he can lead the country? No.
This is why Kennedy beat Nixon all those years ago. Perception.
Did it look like Trump can lead this country? I mean, I think we can all acknowledge Joe is old, but Trump is a criminally convicted lying moron with no plan for this country. The fact Republicans are taking laps because Trump was Trump is pathetic. No Democrat is taking laps because Biden was Biden and showed his age. It's ridiculous that anyone outside the red hats would celebrate that performance last night. Jesus Christ, what a disaster indeed.
lol nobody will take laps for Biden being old because it's not a good look.
Not a fan of Trump but after the first five minutes I'd have voted for him.
Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
Not a fan of Trump but after the first five minutes I'd have voted for him.
So you like receiving a firehose full of lies, I suppose. You do you.
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Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
This is the problem with Trump and any opponent and always has been. Trump can lie 90% of the time and it's fine, but if the opponent makes a few misleading statements that may not be 100% accurate then the comparison is they both lie. There are blatant bold faced lies with no actual purpose but to be dishonest and then there are exaggerations or mistruths where not all parts of the statement are true. What Biden and most politicians do is a common practice and has been for decades, but what Trump does is downright devious. Not saying either is ok, but the two aren't even close to comparable.
No disrespect intended at all... To the Americans here... you have an election upcoming between a convicted felon who is a life long hard core doosh bag, evil moron...... and an old man who looked completely lost in a field during a G7 meeting and who also looked like a confused mannequin at a Juneteenth ceremony.
Not good.
Is it too late to change the candidates at this point? For either side. If it's not, what is considered like the deadline for any change to be made?
...... 2 weeks later, post debate...
same question
Toronto 2000
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Boston I&II 2004
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Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
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Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
This is the problem with Trump and any opponent and always has been. Trump can lie 90% of the time and it's fine, but if the opponent makes a few misleading statements that may not be 100% accurate then the comparison is they both lie. There are blatant bold faced lies with no actual purpose but to be dishonest and then there are exaggerations or mistruths where not all parts of the statement are true. What Biden and most politicians do is a common practice and has been for decades, but what Trump does is downright devious. Not saying either is ok, but the two aren't even close to comparable.
I see little difference. Claiming no soldier has died during your presidency or that Trump instructed people to inject bleach are just as much of a lie as anything Trump said. He just said half as many.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
Biden
I woke up this morning searching my mind for something positive regarding this fiasco and drew nothing but blanks. Then I went out into the kitchen, gave my wife a hug, gave the cat her morning treats, and made my coffee. All is not lost. As long as there are people you're close to, a favorite pet, a good cup of coffee or tea or whatever you like to start your day with, and you don't look past the moment, all is not lost. Beyond that.... I don't know.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
This is the problem with Trump and any opponent and always has been. Trump can lie 90% of the time and it's fine, but if the opponent makes a few misleading statements that may not be 100% accurate then the comparison is they both lie. There are blatant bold faced lies with no actual purpose but to be dishonest and then there are exaggerations or mistruths where not all parts of the statement are true. What Biden and most politicians do is a common practice and has been for decades, but what Trump does is downright devious. Not saying either is ok, but the two aren't even close to comparable.
Did any news source document what was a lie from them? That would be interesting to read.
Im writing in Ralph Nader. I want all cool things abolished!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,292
Biden
OK, so we have two old farts running for president, one old and decrepit, and one ultra-narcissist anti-democracy nut case. How did we get there and how do we change? Here's what I think: Younger generations, people need to get off their phones, and get off their asses, and get into the real world and start making changes. Others have done that in the past. G.I. generation pulled this country out of the depression and fought for freedom and democracy. Boomers stood up and rallied to put an end to the war in Vietnam. Now it's time for a new generation to get moving and do something. My generation is not going to change anything. There are not enough of us with any gas in the tank anymore. We're old, we're worn out. We're passe. If gen Z and gen X don't get off their phones and get off their asses, this country is going into the shitter for good. It blows my mind that were even talking about Biden and Trump. I mean, really, WTF? Wake up, younger people.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Biden looked old, feeble, and most importantly like he he's lost most of what he had mentally.
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
And Biden had several lies himself. Just not as many. So it’s kind of hard to argue Trump did poorly in the debate because the other guy only lied less.
This is the problem with Trump and any opponent and always has been. Trump can lie 90% of the time and it's fine, but if the opponent makes a few misleading statements that may not be 100% accurate then the comparison is they both lie. There are blatant bold faced lies with no actual purpose but to be dishonest and then there are exaggerations or mistruths where not all parts of the statement are true. What Biden and most politicians do is a common practice and has been for decades, but what Trump does is downright devious. Not saying either is ok, but the two aren't even close to comparable.
Did any news source document what was a lie from them? That would be interesting to read.
CNN had like over 30 from Trump and maybe 8 from Biden.
tbergs is right. This is the usual bothsides nonsense that should have ended years ago but never well, it seems.
I’m just curious. Everyone on the left has been defending his age and ability for years now. And it seems overnight, all these same people have turned on him. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch. Biden should’ve been a one term from the first day. He was the best to beat Trump. He accomplished it, he has nothing left to prove. He’s had a storybook career. I’m just not sure why it got this far.
OK, so we have two old farts running for president, one old and decrepit, and one ultra-narcissist anti-democracy nut case. How did we get there and how do we change? Here's what I think: Younger generations, people need to get off their phones, and get off their asses, and get into the real world and start making changes. Others have done that in the past. G.I. generation pulled this country out of the depression and fought for freedom and democracy. Boomers stood up and rallied to put an end to the war in Vietnam. Now it's time for a new generation to get moving and do something. My generation is not going to change anything. There are not enough of us with any gas in the tank anymore. We're old, we're worn out. We're passe. If gen Z and gen X don't get off their phones and get off their asses, this country is going into the shitter for good. It blows my mind that were even talking about Biden and Trump. I mean, really, WTF? Wake up, younger people.
Interesting passing off the damage baby boomers have done and continue to do on genX, millennial and gen’s apathy…. Bold take.
OK, so we have two old farts running for president, one old and decrepit, and one ultra-narcissist anti-democracy nut case. How did we get there and how do we change? Here's what I think: Younger generations, people need to get off their phones, and get off their asses, and get into the real world and start making changes. Others have done that in the past. G.I. generation pulled this country out of the depression and fought for freedom and democracy. Boomers stood up and rallied to put an end to the war in Vietnam. Now it's time for a new generation to get moving and do something. My generation is not going to change anything. There are not enough of us with any gas in the tank anymore. We're old, we're worn out. We're passe. If gen Z and gen X don't get off their phones and get off their asses, this country is going into the shitter for good. It blows my mind that were even talking about Biden and Trump. I mean, really, WTF? Wake up, younger people.
Interesting passing off the damage baby boomers have done and continue to do on genX, millennial and gen’s apathy…. Bold take.
Our gen is an embarrassment. Obama is a tweener, but if you call him Boomer then that gen has had the presidency since 92.
OK, so we have two old farts running for president, one old and decrepit, and one ultra-narcissist anti-democracy nut case. How did we get there and how do we change? Here's what I think: Younger generations, people need to get off their phones, and get off their asses, and get into the real world and start making changes. Others have done that in the past. G.I. generation pulled this country out of the depression and fought for freedom and democracy. Boomers stood up and rallied to put an end to the war in Vietnam. Now it's time for a new generation to get moving and do something. My generation is not going to change anything. There are not enough of us with any gas in the tank anymore. We're old, we're worn out. We're passe. If gen Z and gen X don't get off their phones and get off their asses, this country is going into the shitter for good. It blows my mind that were even talking about Biden and Trump. I mean, really, WTF? Wake up, younger people.
Interesting passing off the damage baby boomers have done and continue to do on genX, millennial and gen’s apathy…. Bold take.
Kinda the same as some on here blaming dems for POOTWH, rather than acknowledging all of the repubs and their infrastructure that gave rise to and continues to support him for their party’s nominee as POTUS. Right? Same-same.
Whaaaaa, why didn’t the Dems nominate someone other than Brandon? Whaaaaaa, I can’t believe they didn’t replace him or groom someone to run 2 or 3 years ago! Whaaaaaaaa! The real question and issue is, WTF is wrong with the repub party and all those millionaires and billionaires and the 70M+ ‘Muricans that send money and support a total POS of a human being? Brandon in a coma is a better candidate than POOTWH. Fuck those chaos agent dems.
I’m just curious. Everyone on the left has been defending his age and ability for years now. And it seems overnight, all these same people have turned on him. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch. Biden should’ve been a one term from the first day. He was the best to beat Trump. He accomplished it, he has nothing left to prove. He’s had a storybook career. I’m just not sure why it got this far.
Maybe it's because there was a seismic shift that happened overnight?
Time and time again over the last 5 years, Biden has been underestimated and exceeded expectations---debates, speeches, sotu's etc. And contrary, to maga belief, the country is not in horrible shape considering where it was when he was sworn in. So of course they would defend their guy.
Last night was really the first time he came up small since those early debates in 2015...and it wasn't just small. It was jarring. Possibly the worst debate performance ever, considering how much is on the line.
I’m just curious. Everyone on the left has been defending his age and ability for years now. And it seems overnight, all these same people have turned on him. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch. Biden should’ve been a one term from the first day. He was the best to beat Trump. He accomplished it, he has nothing left to prove. He’s had a storybook career. I’m just not sure why it got this far.
Maybe it's because there was a seismic shift that happened overnight?
Time and time again over the last 5 years, Biden has been underestimated and exceeded expectations---debates, speeches, sotu's etc. And contrary, to maga belief, the country is not in horrible shape considering where it was when he was sworn in. So of course they would defend their guy.
Last night was really the first time he came up small since those early debates in 2015...and it wasn't just small. It was jarring. Possibly the worst debate performance ever, considering how much is on the line.
Fair enough. I guess it’s just shocking to see the complete 180 in a 12 hour period.
I’m just curious. Everyone on the left has been defending his age and ability for years now. And it seems overnight, all these same people have turned on him. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch. Biden should’ve been a one term from the first day. He was the best to beat Trump. He accomplished it, he has nothing left to prove. He’s had a storybook career. I’m just not sure why it got this far.
Maybe it's because there was a seismic shift that happened overnight?
Time and time again over the last 5 years, Biden has been underestimated and exceeded expectations---debates, speeches, sotu's etc. And contrary, to maga belief, the country is not in horrible shape considering where it was when he was sworn in. So of course they would defend their guy.
Last night was really the first time he came up small since those early debates in 2015...and it wasn't just small. It was jarring. Possibly the worst debate performance ever, considering how much is on the line.
Fair enough. I guess it’s just shocking to see the complete 180 in a 12 hour period.
It would be fascinating to know the inner circle's true thoughts; those with him this past week during the prep. Did this catch everybody by surprise and was the worst they've seen or was it a glimpse into the struggles they were trying to improve and why they felt a week of prep was necessary? I also sometimes wonder if they overloaded him? I mean, he really only needed to hit about 6 - 8 key points about his accomplishments and then just rebuff any Trump bullshit, but he ultimately failed to do either. Stumbling to be clear on his accomplishments and failing to "refuttal" Trump lies. I think he did a better job of that 4 years ago, even if it was only to say "Shut up" to that dipshit.
I’m just curious. Everyone on the left has been defending his age and ability for years now. And it seems overnight, all these same people have turned on him. It’s pretty embarrassing to watch. Biden should’ve been a one term from the first day. He was the best to beat Trump. He accomplished it, he has nothing left to prove. He’s had a storybook career. I’m just not sure why it got this far.
Maybe it's because there was a seismic shift that happened overnight?
Time and time again over the last 5 years, Biden has been underestimated and exceeded expectations---debates, speeches, sotu's etc. And contrary, to maga belief, the country is not in horrible shape considering where it was when he was sworn in. So of course they would defend their guy.
Last night was really the first time he came up small since those early debates in 2015...and it wasn't just small. It was jarring. Possibly the worst debate performance ever, considering how much is on the line.
Fair enough. I guess it’s just shocking to see the complete 180 in a 12 hour period.
It would be fascinating to know the inner circle's true thoughts; those with him this past week during the prep. Did this catch everybody by surprise and was the worst they've seen or was it a glimpse into the struggles they were trying to improve and why they felt a week of prep was necessary? I also sometimes wonder if they overloaded him? I mean, he really only needed to hit about 6 - 8 key points about his accomplishments and then just rebuff any Trump bullshit, but he ultimately failed to do either. Stumbling to be clear on his accomplishments and failing to "refuttal" Trump lies. I think he did a better job of that 4 years ago, even if it was only to say "Shut up" to that dipshit.
I believe you nailed it in the bolded parts, they overloaded him and they needed to simplify what he needed to say into ten or fewer key points. The dem inner circle goes overboard thinking trump is a monster, instead of seeing him the way independents in swing states do.
The Democratic Party campaign leadership has been TERRIBLE the last ten years or so. They made terrible decisions starting with the first trump campaign in 2016 (“don’t worry about her emails, we are way ahead”) and if you think about it, the current democratic campaign regime (after much of the Obama leaders retired from campaigning) has never won a real presidential campaign, as 2020 was a bizarre ride thru Covid with no real rallies or campaigning.
Obama had an amazing team with Plouffe and Axelrod, but a lot of that team disappeared in 2016.
IMO… the best thing that could happen would be for both to drop dead roughly 8-10 weeks before the election. The parties will need to find a nominee and make it a horse race to Election Day.
Comments
Trump lied.
Winner: Trump.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
since the debate debacle, I’ve been considering whether this is the first time a political party was scrambling publicly to replace a candidate. But that’s incorrect
2016, Donald Trump, immediately after the release of the Access Hollywood tape
He stayed in the race and won, when almost everyone predicted he will lose. Don’t believe Dems will be as lucky this time.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not a fan of Trump but after the first five minutes I'd have voted for him.
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Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
same question
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013
Toronto I&II 2016
10C: 220xxx
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I'd vote Biden just to keep Trump out but the mass audience won't see it like that.
Im writing in Ralph Nader. I want all cool things abolished!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
tbergs is right. This is the usual bothsides nonsense that should have ended years ago but never well, it seems.
Whaaaaa, why didn’t the Dems nominate someone other than Brandon? Whaaaaaa, I can’t believe they didn’t replace him or groom someone to run 2 or 3 years ago! Whaaaaaaaa! The real question and issue is, WTF is wrong with the repub party and all those millionaires and billionaires and the 70M+ ‘Muricans that send money and support a total POS of a human being? Brandon in a coma is a better candidate than POOTWH. Fuck those chaos agent dems.
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-EV 8/14/93
Time and time again over the last 5 years, Biden has been underestimated and exceeded expectations---debates, speeches, sotu's etc. And contrary, to maga belief, the country is not in horrible shape considering where it was when he was sworn in. So of course they would defend their guy.
Last night was really the first time he came up small since those early debates in 2015...and it wasn't just small. It was jarring. Possibly the worst debate performance ever, considering how much is on the line.
The Democratic Party campaign leadership has been TERRIBLE the last ten years or so. They made terrible decisions starting with the first trump campaign in 2016 (“don’t worry about her emails, we are way ahead”) and if you think about it, the current democratic campaign regime (after much of the Obama leaders retired from campaigning) has never won a real presidential campaign, as 2020 was a bizarre ride thru Covid with no real rallies or campaigning.
Obama had an amazing team with Plouffe and Axelrod, but a lot of that team disappeared in 2016.