Some of you here sound like you believe Biden has it in the bag. OF COURSE I would like to believe that. But I don't see how you can be so confident. Where do you get that? Wishful thinking? Faith in the system? I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly don't understand.
just parroting everyone else...
But it appears he is ahead in the requisite states. The votes that are remaining are a combination of mail-in ballots (which were returned predominantly by Democrat voters) as well as counties that he needs. And that doesnt even include Pennsylvania, Georgia, and North Carolina which are still in question.
Im not going to celebrate until it is dead and buried, but it is looking good. Gambling odds agree.
I'm far from celebrating, mainly because:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So is it starting to look like Nevada might be the key state? Biden’ lead is dwindling to about 7000. And I think if everything else holds Trump gets to 272.
i swear even if biden wins, next july you're going to claim that trump will somehow become president again. LOL
Some of you here sound like you believe Biden has it in the bag. OF COURSE I would like to believe that. But I don't see how you can be so confident. Where do you get that? Wishful thinking? Faith in the system? I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly don't understand.
just parroting everyone else...
But it appears he is ahead in the requisite states. The votes that are remaining are a combination of mail-in ballots (which were returned predominantly by Democrat voters) as well as counties that he needs. And that doesnt even include Pennsylvania, Georgia, and North Carolina which are still in question.
Im not going to celebrate until it is dead and buried, but it is looking good. Gambling odds agree.
Some of you here sound like you believe Biden has it in the bag. OF COURSE I would like to believe that. But I don't see how you can be so confident. Where do you get that? Wishful thinking? Faith in the system? I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly don't understand.
just parroting everyone else...
But it appears he is ahead in the requisite states. The votes that are remaining are a combination of mail-in ballots (which were returned predominantly by Democrat voters) as well as counties that he needs. And that doesnt even include Pennsylvania, Georgia, and North Carolina which are still in question.
Im not going to celebrate until it is dead and buried, but it is looking good. Gambling odds agree.
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
No, electors must be certified by December something. That's the federal law.
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
No, electors must be certified by December something. That's the federal law.
I think it's the 14th. But Bush vs. Gore went beyond that, I think. We could be in for a long fall/winter.
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any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
Hopefully it won't be called this way:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
No, electors must be certified by December something. That's the federal law.
I think it's the 14th. But Bush vs. Gore went beyond that, I think. We could be in for a long fall/winter.
Dec 12th. Just looked it up. I can't believe we waited that long. And there were no riots or a candidate yelling FRAUD. What a quaint time in our history.
Not the worst outcome in the world. Biden with a GOP Senate majority and a narrower House that a moderate bipartisan caucus can wield more power in.
And, actually, Biden will not mind that at all. Pressure's off. He can use McConnell as the excuse why he doesn't implement the crazys' hoped for plan. And, so I'm now taking bets how long it takes for Dems to call for Pelosi to invoke 25th Amendment b/c Biden doesn't take on McConnell. I say 6 months.
Basically any hope for a major domestic policy shift is gone with no change in the Senate. Stability. Basically the markets are telling you this positive news today.
I do wonder what happens with the positive Middle East news. If Biden (or really whoever his Sec'y of State) brings Palestine back to the table, that will evaporate quicker than it seemed to come together. I assume Biden will continue to draw down troops around the world as Trump had already been doing.
Trump legacy has been cemented for years by this election. No change to Supreme Court. No new States (which both seemed unlikely with a few Moderate Dems anyway). No major Tax Code change. All bye, bye.
I still expect spending to continue unabated as Trump didn't really change that either. I mean he did a $3 Trillion Cares Act and was prepared to do another $2. So, what's another $1 on top of that? If Dems want to bail out NY, lol. Fine by me (it's stupid, but eh). At some point, there will be a reckoning. Each party keeps planning for it to be the other party's problem.
So, while everyone will focus on whatever they want here, I will end with 2 questions - given this most likely reality of GOP Senate hold and Dem President:
1) What of significance do you think will actually change? 2) Given they will be able to slip some smaller initiatives in, what do you hope they will (and realistically get through) choose to?
This more or less sums up how I feel minus the 25th push
I think it's funny 2 posters have commented on what I thought was clearly a throw away joke. Lighten up. You "won." No more Trump (other than on MSNBC when they hire him).
See, it could be a joke, but the regulars around here know your MO. You make a "joke", that isn't a joke because you've already alluded to your stance on the "joke" in other posts so it's more like you taking a stab at owning some libs. If you really wanted discourse, your post would reflect a more sincere interest instead of trying to take a lap because you're giddy about those points you made about cementing Trump's legacy.
exactly
Exactly what? That is all in your head. Honestly, Mitch McConnell is probably fine with Biden as President. My guess is most lifelong politicians are thrilled. Trump served their purpose - reinvigorating the economy and getting as many conservative justices as possible - but they'll be fine returning to business as usual with Good 'ole Joe. These guys are good friends (Biden and McConnell - and Graham for that matter - I'm not quite sure who you think we elected here).
I think you have all spent way too much time the last 4 years worrying about who's saying what rather than what's actually going on.
The Pelosi 25th Amendment thing was clearly a joke regardless of context given she brought that up with Trump even though she has no power to do that. If you don't get that, that's your problem not mine. What difference would it make? Harris is next and Pelosi follows in line of succession. Then the Sec'y of State. Any change from the new status is so far away, it can't possibly be taken seriously. And why would Pelosi possibly do that in the first place? So, yes it's definitely playing off Biden's clear dementia and weakness. So, if you want to challenge that assertion, I'm fine. But, to not see the humor in Pelosi ACTUALLY doing what was jokingly suggested and connecting it to her useless invocation of that with Trump, well, I don't know what to tell you. Biden will be President period.
Take a step back and stop attacking people or trying to interpret their motive. You don't even know me. So, only 1 person has actually responded to the meat of it - how do you feel by the very clear fact that Biden and Pelosi are clearly neutered by this election's outcome and most of you actually aren't going to get the vast majority of the policy issues you want done. Yes, Trump's gone. Great. Now what?
And, as I type this Collins is officially the winner in Maine and the House Dems are pointing fingers at each other. Lol.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
He’s going to pull for a recount in every state possible. Fuckery abounds. We may yet have trump 2020. Who do you trust to guard the ballots?
I don't know why people have a problem with following the laws. It's codified that if results are within 1% either candidate can request a recount. Honestly, of all the things going on, complaining about this seems to be counter to the belief that we want people to vote and make sure those votes are counted properly.
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
Each State has their own date to certify the vote. There is then guidelines on timing of recounts. The idea is to do final certification by the date Electors are supposed to officially cast their vote in mid-December, but as others have said if there are legal challenges as there were in 2000 courts can put a stay on that for a particular State.
I think what keeps getting lost is every State has their own election laws. Yes, Federal Courts and Supreme Court can (And have) get involved, but only to interpret State law. There are limits to the arguments they can entertain. If you noticed, before the election, the Chief Justice sent a case back to the State Court, refusing to step into the issue (I don't remember what that was specifically).
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
So you were hoping for a “repudiation.” A resounding rejection of Trump and Trumpism.
Election officials and news outlets had spent the better part of the month warning us that this would be an election week not an election day, and still in some liberal circles, there was a jacked-up fantasy that nobody would have to wait for Pennsylvania’s tortured ballot count because by 10 p.m. Joe Biden would turn Florida and North Carolina blue — and maybe Texas, why not?
Sorry. As John King or Steve Kornacki spent the night informing viewers from their respective magic walls, Donald Trump over-performed in myriad polling measures. There would be no landslides, only squeakers and clenched jaws — and, possibly, court fights.
Win or lose, Trumpism will not have been swept into the dustbin of history; it will remain all over the furniture. It’s part of the furniture. Unsweepable.
Anecdote isn’t evidence, but I’ll note that for the past two years, the demographic in my inbox who most fervently believed in a 2020 blue landslide were White liberal men and occasionally White liberal women. Surely, they insisted, what had happened in 2016 was a blip. Hillary Clinton had been uniquely flawed, the country uniquely complacent, Donald Trump uniquely novel. The results didn’t really reflect America. Black women would save the party; Black women would save us all.
The Black women who wrote to me, meanwhile, were exhausted and often worried. To them, 2016 didn’t feel like a blip. It felt like the America they’d already been living in for decades was finally made visible to the rest of the country. Yes, it had always been racist. Yes, it had always been sexist. Yes, yes, yes.
If you, like Joe Biden, have had the recurring privilege of sadly shaking your head and saying, “This isn’t who we are,” what you really meant was, “This isn’t who I’ve ever had to see us be.” What you really meant was, “This isn’t my America . . .Crap, is it yours?”
Meanwhile, the Supreme Court was reshaped, and conspiracy theories multiplied, and 230,000 Americans died in a pandemic, and children were in cages, and however the race ends up, as of mid-Wednesday morning Donald Trump had amassed 3 million more votes nationwide than he did in 2016: according to exit polls, he performed worse among White men, but slightly better among voters of color (Biden, at the same time Wednesday, was ahead in the popular vote by more than 2 million). On Tuesday a Georgia congressional seat was won by a QAnon believer, and a North Carolina seat was won by a 25-year-old Republican who used the dawning moments of his term as a United States representative to tweet out, “Cry more, lib.”
The bad parts of America are not blips, they’re characteristics. For every stone monument to democracy, an enslaved person forced to build a monument to democracy. For every “All men are created equal,” a reminder that it really did only mean men, and only some of them. For every barrier-breaker like Sarah McBride, the newly elected transgender Delaware state senator, who openheartedly tweeted, “Thank you, thank you, thank you,” there is a “cry more, lib.” Do you know how hard it is to love this place sometimes?
Maybe the closeness of this election will make us revisit Hillary Clinton: It wasn’t so much that she was flawed as that we were. Older white male candidates don’t guarantee a tidal wave, either.
Still, votes are being counted.
Wisconsin was red for most of the night, and then Milwaukee and the mail-ins arrived, and around 4 or 5 in the morning, Biden pulled tenuously ahead. By 9 a.m. CNN’s chryon read, “Biden takes lead in tight Michigan race,” and a Detroit election official tersely told Chris Cuomo that more results could have come in while she was waiting on air to talk to him.
Pennsylvania isn’t guaranteeing anything until Friday, officials have said, and chances are decent that it will come down to Pennsylvania again. Georgia isn’t out of the game for Democrats, either — its mail-in ballots are still trickling in.
Biden might not lose. But some of the pillars of Americana he ran on — decency, truthfulness (or at least accountability for lying your tail off), a prevailing respect for science and history — may emerge all the shakier.
You can’t effectively repudiate a worldview that nearly half the country believes in. Or at least, is willing to vote for.
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
Why?
Because I know this place - I don't think it will change a thing.
To answer your question, you've asked people to support you. You come within the legally created limit to ask for a 2nd count to make sure the count is correct (And btw, the count WILL change - not outcome, but the actual count). Don't you think it's irresponsible of someone asking for your support to NOT take every reasonable consideration to make sure that support is properly recognized?
I'm not talking court challenges and stuff. I'm staying clear of that. But, recount? Really? You don't think that's not only a reasonable thing to do, but an obligation?
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
any bets on the date this will finally be called? i mean, who really calls it anyway? there's no federal official. it's just supposed to be a gentleman's agreement that the loser concede. we know the orange loser won't concede. we know biden would. so if trump doesn't, we have to wait for the electors to make it official?
No, electors must be certified by December something. That's the federal law.
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
Why?
Because I know this place - I don't think it will change a thing.
To answer your question, you've asked people to support you. You come within the legally created limit to ask for a 2nd count to make sure the count is correct (And btw, the count WILL change - not outcome, but the actual count). Don't you think it's irresponsible of someone asking for your support to NOT take every reasonable consideration to make sure that support is properly recognized?
I'm not talking court challenges and stuff. I'm staying clear of that. But, recount? Really? You don't think that's not only a reasonable thing to do, but an obligation?
Doesn't it
1) cost money
2) slow down the process of an effective election
If there is no reason for a recount - as in super tight margins, or stuff being off, I would not do one.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
Why?
Because I know this place - I don't think it will change a thing.
To answer your question, you've asked people to support you. You come within the legally created limit to ask for a 2nd count to make sure the count is correct (And btw, the count WILL change - not outcome, but the actual count). Don't you think it's irresponsible of someone asking for your support to NOT take every reasonable consideration to make sure that support is properly recognized?
I'm not talking court challenges and stuff. I'm staying clear of that. But, recount? Really? You don't think that's not only a reasonable thing to do, but an obligation?
Doesn't it
1) cost money
2) slow down the process of an effective election
If there is no reason for a recount - as in super tight margins, or stuff being off, I would not do one.
Lol. Did you see the $100 M Bloomberg poured into Fla to help Biden lose by more than anyone had even thought possible? Your first point is the cost of a recount?
It should not slow anything down. There should be more than enough time to do a recount between the next week (I don't know when each State certifies, but they're all by end of next week) and mid-December.
The inauguration isn't until the 3rd week of January. Biden doesn't become President until then. There's plenty of time for a recount.
I think this is an issue everyone should be in favor of if they are truly about full and fair elections. Not asking for a recount is just plain stupid. Biden would rightfully do exactly the same thing. Gore didn't have to do it in 2000 because the Fla Sec'y of State stepped in and just ordered one. But, if she hadn't, he would have.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
Why?
Because I know this place - I don't think it will change a thing.
To answer your question, you've asked people to support you. You come within the legally created limit to ask for a 2nd count to make sure the count is correct (And btw, the count WILL change - not outcome, but the actual count). Don't you think it's irresponsible of someone asking for your support to NOT take every reasonable consideration to make sure that support is properly recognized?
I'm not talking court challenges and stuff. I'm staying clear of that. But, recount? Really? You don't think that's not only a reasonable thing to do, but an obligation?
Doesn't it
1) cost money
2) slow down the process of an effective election
If there is no reason for a recount - as in super tight margins, or stuff being off, I would not do one.
Lol. Did you see the $100 M Bloomberg poured into Fla to help Biden lose by more than anyone had even thought possible? Your first point is the cost of a recount?
It should not slow anything down. There should be more than enough time to do a recount between the next week (I don't know when each State certifies, but they're all by end of next week) and mid-December.
The inauguration isn't until the 3rd week of January. Biden doesn't become President until then. There's plenty of time for a recount.
I think this is an issue everyone should be in favor of if they are truly about full and fair elections. Not asking for a recount is just plain stupid. Biden would rightfully do exactly the same thing. Gore didn't have to do it in 2000 because the Fla Sec'y of State stepped in and just ordered one. But, if she hadn't, he would have.
Maybe stupid, from a grasping at straws refusing to admit defeat perspective.
If I was 20k votes behind and I don't see any reason to do one - I would not.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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Thanks but sorry, could not watch it. World's worst satellite ISP here. I'm pretty much limited to text these days. (Long story.)
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I think it's the 14th. But Bush vs. Gore went beyond that, I think. We could be in for a long fall/winter.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I think you have all spent way too much time the last 4 years worrying about who's saying what rather than what's actually going on.
The Pelosi 25th Amendment thing was clearly a joke regardless of context given she brought that up with Trump even though she has no power to do that. If you don't get that, that's your problem not mine. What difference would it make? Harris is next and Pelosi follows in line of succession. Then the Sec'y of State. Any change from the new status is so far away, it can't possibly be taken seriously. And why would Pelosi possibly do that in the first place? So, yes it's definitely playing off Biden's clear dementia and weakness. So, if you want to challenge that assertion, I'm fine. But, to not see the humor in Pelosi ACTUALLY doing what was jokingly suggested and connecting it to her useless invocation of that with Trump, well, I don't know what to tell you. Biden will be President period.
Take a step back and stop attacking people or trying to interpret their motive. You don't even know me. So, only 1 person has actually responded to the meat of it - how do you feel by the very clear fact that Biden and Pelosi are clearly neutered by this election's outcome and most of you actually aren't going to get the vast majority of the policy issues you want done. Yes, Trump's gone. Great. Now what?
And, as I type this Collins is officially the winner in Maine and the House Dems are pointing fingers at each other. Lol.
Quite honestly, either way, it's irresponsible of a candidate NOT to ask for a recount given the legal framework.
I think what keeps getting lost is every State has their own election laws. Yes, Federal Courts and Supreme Court can (And have) get involved, but only to interpret State law. There are limits to the arguments they can entertain. If you noticed, before the election, the Chief Justice sent a case back to the State Court, refusing to step into the issue (I don't remember what that was specifically).
Sums it up pretty well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/liberal-election-fantasy-loses-trumpism-wins/2020/11/04/ca79be4c-1e91-11eb-90dd-abd0f7086a91_story.html
So you were hoping for a “repudiation.” A resounding rejection of Trump and Trumpism.
Election officials and news outlets had spent the better part of the month warning us that this would be an election week not an election day, and still in some liberal circles, there was a jacked-up fantasy that nobody would have to wait for Pennsylvania’s tortured ballot count because by 10 p.m. Joe Biden would turn Florida and North Carolina blue — and maybe Texas, why not?
Sorry. As John King or Steve Kornacki spent the night informing viewers from their respective magic walls, Donald Trump over-performed in myriad polling measures. There would be no landslides, only squeakers and clenched jaws — and, possibly, court fights.
Win or lose, Trumpism will not have been swept into the dustbin of history; it will remain all over the furniture. It’s part of the furniture. Unsweepable.
Anecdote isn’t evidence, but I’ll note that for the past two years, the demographic in my inbox who most fervently believed in a 2020 blue landslide were White liberal men and occasionally White liberal women. Surely, they insisted, what had happened in 2016 was a blip. Hillary Clinton had been uniquely flawed, the country uniquely complacent, Donald Trump uniquely novel. The results didn’t really reflect America. Black women would save the party; Black women would save us all.
The Black women who wrote to me, meanwhile, were exhausted and often worried. To them, 2016 didn’t feel like a blip. It felt like the America they’d already been living in for decades was finally made visible to the rest of the country. Yes, it had always been racist. Yes, it had always been sexist. Yes, yes, yes.
If you, like Joe Biden, have had the recurring privilege of sadly shaking your head and saying, “This isn’t who we are,” what you really meant was, “This isn’t who I’ve ever had to see us be.” What you really meant was, “This isn’t my America . . .Crap, is it yours?”
Meanwhile, the Supreme Court was reshaped, and conspiracy theories multiplied, and 230,000 Americans died in a pandemic, and children were in cages, and however the race ends up, as of mid-Wednesday morning Donald Trump had amassed 3 million more votes nationwide than he did in 2016: according to exit polls, he performed worse among White men, but slightly better among voters of color (Biden, at the same time Wednesday, was ahead in the popular vote by more than 2 million). On Tuesday a Georgia congressional seat was won by a QAnon believer, and a North Carolina seat was won by a 25-year-old Republican who used the dawning moments of his term as a United States representative to tweet out, “Cry more, lib.”
The bad parts of America are not blips, they’re characteristics. For every stone monument to democracy, an enslaved person forced to build a monument to democracy. For every “All men are created equal,” a reminder that it really did only mean men, and only some of them. For every barrier-breaker like Sarah McBride, the newly elected transgender Delaware state senator, who openheartedly tweeted, “Thank you, thank you, thank you,” there is a “cry more, lib.” Do you know how hard it is to love this place sometimes?
Maybe the closeness of this election will make us revisit Hillary Clinton: It wasn’t so much that she was flawed as that we were. Older white male candidates don’t guarantee a tidal wave, either.
Still, votes are being counted.
Wisconsin was red for most of the night, and then Milwaukee and the mail-ins arrived, and around 4 or 5 in the morning, Biden pulled tenuously ahead. By 9 a.m. CNN’s chryon read, “Biden takes lead in tight Michigan race,” and a Detroit election official tersely told Chris Cuomo that more results could have come in while she was waiting on air to talk to him.
Pennsylvania isn’t guaranteeing anything until Friday, officials have said, and chances are decent that it will come down to Pennsylvania again. Georgia isn’t out of the game for Democrats, either — its mail-in ballots are still trickling in.
Biden might not lose. But some of the pillars of Americana he ran on — decency, truthfulness (or at least accountability for lying your tail off), a prevailing respect for science and history — may emerge all the shakier.
You can’t effectively repudiate a worldview that nearly half the country believes in. Or at least, is willing to vote for.
To answer your question, you've asked people to support you. You come within the legally created limit to ask for a 2nd count to make sure the count is correct (And btw, the count WILL change - not outcome, but the actual count). Don't you think it's irresponsible of someone asking for your support to NOT take every reasonable consideration to make sure that support is properly recognized?
I'm not talking court challenges and stuff. I'm staying clear of that. But, recount? Really? You don't think that's not only a reasonable thing to do, but an obligation?
www.headstonesband.com
1) cost money
2) slow down the process of an effective election
If there is no reason for a recount - as in super tight margins, or stuff being off, I would not do one.
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2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
It should not slow anything down. There should be more than enough time to do a recount between the next week (I don't know when each State certifies, but they're all by end of next week) and mid-December.
The inauguration isn't until the 3rd week of January. Biden doesn't become President until then. There's plenty of time for a recount.
I think this is an issue everyone should be in favor of if they are truly about full and fair elections. Not asking for a recount is just plain stupid. Biden would rightfully do exactly the same thing. Gore didn't have to do it in 2000 because the Fla Sec'y of State stepped in and just ordered one. But, if she hadn't, he would have.
If I was 20k votes behind and I don't see any reason to do one - I would not.